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MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,582
Belgium
FYI Kyle measuring IP value by Target shopping options is not a bit.
I can almost guarantee that it is, but if it isn't he will need to change his opinion on this as physical gamesales will most likely become even smaller as next gen goes on.

Kyle sounded like he usually sounds when he is pulling people's leg during that LoL segment.
 

y2kyle89

Member
Mar 16, 2018
971
Mass
League of Legends is one of those things where I'll forget about it, it comes up again for some reason and I find myself going "Huh, that's still around and doing well."
 
Nov 5, 2017
875
I can almost guarantee that it is, but if it isn't he will need to change his opinion on this as physical gamesales will most likely become even more obsolete as next gen goes on.
Very true...it has already happened in the PC space. When was the last time you saw a new game sitting on a shelf, ready to buy for PC? PC gamers have been buying digital games for years now, it is only recently that console gamers have been buying their games primarily through digital means.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,031
I've only been listening to the podcast for a year, and I really couldn't tell if Kyle was genuinely ignorant about the League stuff, or if he was doing a bit. He was doubling and tripling down like it was a bit, but usually the bits don't go on as long as this one did?

Like, I know nothing about League- I know that "Draven" or something is a character, but don't know what (s?)he looks like and couldn't name or identify another character in the game, but I know that League is doing sellouts of arenas all over the world way more often than once a year, that it makes more money than god, and that it is orders of magnitudes larger than it's primary competitor, DOTA.
 

y2kyle89

Member
Mar 16, 2018
971
Mass
I just thought of metaphor to help Kyle's case: League of Legends is like Cricket. Yeah it's a huge thing but it isn't a huge thing.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,031
I just thought of metaphor to help Kyle's case: League of Legends is like Cricket. Yeah it's a huge thing but it isn't a huge thing.
Or "IP value" in relation to Bollywood stars- where they are the most famous people in the world to a Billion people with a B in India- AKA 1/6th of the population of the world- but completely unknown outside of that circle. How valuable is that?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,071
League of Legends, the game, is unquestionably successful. League of Legends the IP? That's a whole different thing, and I think that's what Kyle was talking about. Can it break into other games/genres and have those games be successful based solely on the connection between LoL? Probably, but as of now, that's untested. Why is LoL popular? Is it the game? Or is it Runeterra and the characters? That's what Riot is putting to the test with these new games. That's what Kyle was trying to deduce with the panel. He's not an idiot. I think he simply wanted to understand why these announcements were a big deal and if they'll find as much success as LoL based on the name alone.
 

iverdawg

Member
Mar 8, 2018
397
Yeah I'm not sure why everyone is ganging up on Kyle when the IP conversation is a completely valid one. I have hundreds of hours logged in Dota 2 and watch Twitch quite often so I'm aware of LoL as a game, its popularity, its place in Esports and the MOBA scene in general, but like Kyle, even I could really only name two heroes in the game if asked about it. It's a massively popular title but to say it has the same cultural impact as some other IPs, I'm not sure. I'd expect the same argument would be valid if he was talking about Dota 2. I liked how he framed the whole conversation, because if you're going to announce multiple games based off the characters of one game like they just did, seeing whether said characters have the power to carry them is an interesting way to gauge interest and start a discussion.
 
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Dec 21, 2017
10,833
League of Legends is a complete blind spot in my gaming interests. I can't even name a single character from the game. I'm with Kyle on the entire podcast discussion and agree wholeheartedly. All of those Riot announcements didn't peak my interests at all.
 

stealthyfrog

Avenger
Jan 6, 2019
7,937
Kyle is right, though. I can think of at least 5 gaming franchises that have more value as an IP than LoL despite League's humongous playerbase.
 

Hanekawa

Member
Sep 22, 2019
96
Oh, I didn't know Majora's Mask was confirmed, I thought it might just be wishful thinking. This is great.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,001
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
Kyle is right, though. I can think of at least 5 gaming franchises that have more value as an IP than LoL despite League's humongous playerbase.
Another way to approach the question is: If you could draft one gaming IP, with the caveat you're not allowed to use gameplay the IP is known and loved for, how far down the list would you pick LoL?

MOBAs are in a unique place. The first one was spun off from one of the most beloved franchises in gaming history, whose characters were replaced with palette-swapped clones in the follow-up that despite the fact went on to find an even bigger audience, and the most successful title in the genre achieved record numbers and profits without relying on any kind of previously established characters or world, while a game made by the owners of the original franchise and featuring a cast recruited from across their entire catalogue of best-sellers failed to match the relevance of its rivals.

It's not a case like Smash Bros. where the fighters are at least as much part of the appeal as the game idea itself.
 

Zeroro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,326
I have no idea how they're gonna make Ring Fit Adventure work in the streaming room, but I'm excited to find out.
 

Primethius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,058
Another way to approach the question is: If you could draft one gaming IP, with the caveat you're not allowed to use gameplay the IP is known and loved for, how far down the list would you pick LoL?

MOBAs are in a unique place. The first one was spun off from one of the most beloved franchises in gaming history, whose characters were replaced with palette-swapped clones in the follow-up that despite the fact went on to find an even bigger audience, and the most successful title in the genre achieved record numbers and profits without relying on any kind of previously established characters or world, while a game made by the owners of the original franchise and featuring a cast recruited from across their entire catalogue of best-sellers failed to match the relevance of its rivals.

It's not a case like Smash Bros. where the fighters are at least as much part of the appeal as the game idea itself.
Aside from a few other IPs, I would absolutely pick League.

I would get access to marketing to the millions of daily League players via the client. Very few IPs boast such an entrenched form of marketing built into the very client every player uses to play League.

That advantage, direct access to the millions of players for a new game based off the one they are playing right now, is matched by very few IPs.

Tie in some promotional rewards and presto, another fairly big PC game that console centric forums can ignore.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,001
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
1 hour long? Surely we have not sinned so to be given such crumbs.
Ian shuffled of this mortal coil only last Saturday! Give Don some time to work out the chemistry with his new co-host!

Aside from a few other IPs, I would absolutely pick League.

I would get access to marketing to the millions of daily League players via the client. Very few IPs boast such an entrenched form of marketing built into the very client every player uses to play League.

That advantage, direct access to the millions of players for a new game based off the one they are playing right now, is matched by very few IPs.

Tie in some promotional rewards and presto, another fairly big PC game that console centric forums can ignore.
That's assuming access to the client, player information or any kind of real life component outside the scope of the fictional world is part of the IP. Granting that you still face the uncertainty of convincing fans of a genre that is famously time-consuming to spend their attention on something unrelated to the gaming experience they primarily enjoy. It's not an unreasonable gamble, and Riot is making it after ten years of one-track success, but there are safer bets and provably flexible franchises out there.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,875
I'm very excited to find out just how athletic the allies are lol. I expect to see some very sweaty boys.
 

Primethius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,058
Ian shuffled of this mortal coil only last Saturday! Give Don some time to work out the chemistry with his new co-host!



That's assuming access to the client, player information or any kind of real life component outside the scope of the fictional world is part of the IP.
Granting that you still face the uncertainty of convincing fans of a genre that is famously time-consuming to spend their attention on something unrelated to the gaming experience they primarily enjoy. It's not an unreasonable gamble, and Riot is making it after ten years of one-track success, but there are safer bets and provably flexible franchises out there.
This is so many arbitrary restrictions to how big of an IP League is that it kind of defeats the point of the discussion.

Riot is in a position very few companies are in. Their fanbase numbers in the millions and their IP has been around for over a decade. They pull extremely high viewer metrics for esports tournaments and extremely high engagement numbers for the game itself.

At this point, everything points to the IP being a big deal and we are playing, "but what if?"

Outside of a select few IPs such as Mario, Minecraft and GTA, League is near the top.
 

swaggy

Member
Mar 11, 2018
920
Kyle is upset about LoL not having 41 sell-outs a year at Staples Center. Like, he really stuck to that point as if that's the only metric for success. It's a video game, why are you comparing it to the NBA?

I feel like as the years go by, he's becoming more and more like Colin Cowherd. That's pretty much one of the worst qualities I can ascribe to anybody, lol. And I'm pretty sure he loves Cowherd based on his past comments. If you guys don't know Colin Cowherd, he's as bad as it gets.
 
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Keith Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
520
I found the whole League of Legends segment humorously nonsensical. It was like 40+ minutes on things no one was actually interested in nor really knew what they were talking about, but had to feign passion just to shoot down Kyle's "rudeness." Comparing esports attendance to NBA games as a barometer of popularity makes zero sense. Comparing Target t-shirt availability to League's "brand" also makes little sense. I personally don't give a shit about League, so I guess I would have fit perfectly right in to that segment.

ON THE OTHER HAND, the thing that really bugged me about this podcast is the status of the bets scoreboard. We are getting perilously close to an end of the year fiasco almost devoid of OR WARS.
 

RugoUniverse

Member
May 15, 2018
802
UK
I found the whole League of Legends segment humorously nonsensical. It was like 40+ minutes on things no one was actually interested in nor really knew what they were talking about, but had to feign passion just to shoot down Kyle's "rudeness." Comparing esports attendance to NBA games as a barometer of popularity makes zero sense. Comparing Target t-shirt availability to League's "brand" also makes little sense. I personally don't give a shit about League, so I guess I would have fit perfectly right in to that segment.

ON THE OTHER HAND, the thing that really bugged me about this podcast is the status of the bets scoreboard. We are getting perilously close to an end of the year fiasco almost devoid of OR WARS.
Or Wars might be featured on the political podcast this year. I'm sure those who subscribe will agree with me that it's been ready and primed for it all year.
 

Brot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
949
On the edge
Ben is reviewing it. A lot of them got a code though so i'm expecting a big Spoiler Mode :)
That's great news as it's probably the only review I personally can count on, then.

I'm so curious about the game and everything I've seen so far is right up my alley. The setting, the tone, the entire look and feel of the game really appeals to me. The problem for me is that I'm not really into Kojima's stuff. I never played 1 because the graphics were bad when I got to play it, kinda enjoyed MGS 2 and 3 despite the story being over my head, didn't like MGS 4 and absolutely cannot believe that MGS 5 sits with a 93 on Metacritic. That really showed me that I can't trust reviewers when it comes to Kojima's games. It's not that I don't like "high concept", artsy or pretentious stories and story telling. Quite the contrary, actually. I value stories, story telling and presentation way more than gameplay alone. For some reason, though, MGS never really clicked with me. Probably due to the military setting, if I'm honest.

I trust Ben enough to be critical in the right ways and I cross my fingers that the nonsense in MGS was mostly due to Kojima being tired of the franchise. Man, the idea of him doing something new and finally moving on is so exciting and I really want Death Stranding to be good. Can't wait for he embargo to lift.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,001
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
This is so many arbitrary restrictions to how big of an IP League is that it kind of defeats the point of the discussion.

Riot is in a position very few companies are in. Their fanbase numbers in the millions and their IP has been around for over a decade. They pull extremely high viewer metrics for esports tournaments and extremely high engagement numbers for the game itself.

At this point, everything points to the IP being a big deal and we are playing, "but what if?"

Outside of a select few IPs such as Mario, Minecraft and GTA, League is near the top.
I'm not trying to measure how big League of Legends is as a multiplayer game, as an esport or as merchandise-seller. I'm trying to get a handle on how valuable the name is when you slap it on a different product that competes for time in the same space.

Those restrictions are asking the question: Is the strength of the IP in the dressing or in the gameplay? Riot Games is making the bet that the LoL brand is transferable to other kinds of genres. If people have developed an attachement to the characters and world of Runeterra, the spin-off games will be successful. If League players are loyal to their particular style of MOBA above anything else, then the franchise will remain a singularly focused phenomenon.

The "What If?" we're playing here is "Does LoL lend itself to a diverse portfolio like Riot Games is attempting to build?" And for that sales power, public awareness or player engagement are unreliable indicators.
 

Primethius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,058
I'm not trying to measure how big League of Legends is as a multiplayer game, as an esport or as merchandise-seller. I'm trying to get a handle on how valuable the name is when you slap it on a different product that competes for time in the same space.

Those restrictions are asking the question: Is the strength of the IP in the dressing or in the gameplay? Riot Games is making the bet that the LoL brand is transferable to other kinds of genres. If people have developed an attachement to the characters and world of Runeterra, the spin-off games will be successful. If League players are loyal to their particular style of MOBA above anything else, then the franchise will remain a singularly focused phenomenon.

The "What If?" we're playing here is "Does LoL lend itself to a diverse portfolio like Riot Games is attempting to build?" And for that sales power, public awareness or player engagement are unreliable indicators.
And my point is that the questions and point are absurd for various reasons. The strength of most IPs is not judged so harshly, and most tend to be a percentage as popular or long lasting as League of Legends.

But the other, more relevant reasoning is: the successes and failures of new IPs rarely happen so perfectly as to pinpoint perfect causes and effects. Does the League fighting game fail because it's associated with a weak IP or because it's not a great fighting game? Does it succeed because it's associated with League or because it's an easy to pick up fighter with esports money behind it?

These questions come off as arbitrary because there's no metric by which the answers can be judged because game releases aren't perfect.

And the ultimate point: League of Legends is a game that has existed for over a decade and is still absolutely massive. It has undergone significant core gameplay changes and through all of that, it has grown and cultivated a large dedicated audience. You don't go through 10 years of significant changes, some not so good, and still be a massive success unless your brand has goodwill and value. And that's not even taking into account added modes, that play little like a traditional MOBA. Not to mention the thirst from the community for spin off titles has existed for a long time, so it's not as if these announcements are for an unknown audience.

It has accomplished things that very few IPs in the history of gaming have and it has stayed relevant longer than most games have. At this point, it's not on League to prove its a big brand. Other games have to prove they are on a similar level to League.

And not only that, I would argue that the name "Riot Games" holds value and is a brand for millions of gamers, similar to prestigious studios. And that only gives the IP more value.
 

Keith Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
520
Or Wars might be featured on the political podcast this year. I'm sure those who subscribe will agree with me that it's been ready and primed for it all year.
I was planning on upping my pledge back up to the political pod tier around the time of the Iowa Caucus, but the return of Or Wars would be all the nudge I'd need to do that now.
 

ObbyDent

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,306
Los Angeles
So are Brandon and Kyle going to get all 16 badges on Silver? Kyle seemed to not be into it before it started but I feel like that has to happen for Brandon who enjoyed Gen 1 so much. Not to mention Brandon's reaction to being able to go to Kanto if he doesn't know already.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,875
So are Brandon and Kyle going to get all 16 badges on Silver? Kyle seemed to not be into it before it started but I feel like that has to happen for Brandon who enjoyed Gen 1 so much. Not to mention Brandon's reaction to being able to go to Kanto if he doesn't know already.
I feel like they will go all the way to the fight with red. The core 8 badges dont take very long to get and the kanto stuff is largely just the gym fights which they can get through rather quickly.
 

Zeroro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,326
I'm going to listen to the Death Stranding Spoiler Mode without ever playing the game to deliberately experience the upper echelons of confusion.
 
5 gifts from fireworksordie

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Hello, I am bot! I come bearing 5 gifts from fireworksordie fireworksordie!

This is a day raffle that will expire in 24 hours. The winner will be drawn at random! Any prizes leftover after the deadline will become available on a first-come first-serve basis.

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Time for another giveaway - this second week's theme is: Adventure!

L&R!

These are our awesome prizes:

 
Oct 25, 2017
1,071
Feels like now would be the perfect time for Trailer Jones to make its triumphant return, but I'm very worried that given everyone's schedules right now, it won't... Still, fingers crossed...
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,661
the question on the Q&A from september about their gaming knowledge or lack thereof was kinda weird lol.


they actually play a lot of games imo.
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,181
Super bummed that there doesn't seem to be a Gundam stream this month. It's my favorite stream they do.