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doodlebob

Member
Mar 11, 2018
1,401
i'm quoting kyle bosman here

"you're getting mad at the muppets".
What?

If that's your whole idea of it, then it seems like you agree.

Kyle equating the whole thing to Barney is kinda silly. Nintendo's had a history of making games for everyone that's fun to play. Historically, Game Freak had done the same thing for Pokémon. Hell, the games get remade because older fans are a large demographic and they cash in on that nostalgia. It wasn't until the 3DS where devs have started to say that the reason for a lot of cutbacks is because of mobile games.

Even the idea of a forced EXP Share is because the devs would rather you swap out your entire team to the PC so one Pokémon could get the experience. Like, a toggle would fix this really easily. A lot of the explanations are just silly.
 
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klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,712
hardcore fans will never be happy again. i'm convinced, they don't really know what they want.

This isnt true at all. All we are (generally) asking for is having all of the pokemon in the games. Having a compelling story and having a substantial post game battle arena. Personally speaking I would rather play a game that looks like octopath travler if it meant getting all of the pokemon back instead of the artsyle they have been sticking with since XY.

As far as getting mad at barney, let's see what kyle has to say next time hes pissed off at a marvel movie which are obviously meant for kids and no adult should be upset by.

Edit: it's also a reaction to being told to shut up so many times. I've been a fan of pokemon for the last 20 years. Think about that, its longer than I've been a fan of any other franchise, longer than my entire education, longer than I've known my partner (10 years!) So yeah, people are invested in the series at this point and get disapointed when features are cut. Then they come on the internet and people tell them they shouldn't be upset about a kids game and the whole thing just boils over with both sides stoking outrage by being overly dramatic and antagonistic towards each other and yelling over each other instead of engaging in an actual conversation.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
13,246
It's great that people are enjoying Sword and Shield but let's not act like what some fans want is unreasonable.

Not having massive cut features in sequels to near annual 15+ million selling games is not a big ask.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,339
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
I'm fairly sure what happened is a UI designer walked up to the producer and said: "If Exp Share is mandatory, we can make XP gains a single screen for the whole party instead of rattling them off one by one. Any reason to keep Exp Share optional?" And the producer thought about it for a moment and went "Nope."
 
OP
OP
fireworksordie
May 30, 2018
3,401
I'm fairly sure what happened is a UI designer walked up to the producer and said: "If Exp Share is mandatory, we can make XP gains a single screen for the whole party instead of rattling them off one by one. Any reason to keep Exp Share optional?" And the producer thought about it for a moment and went "Nope."

lmao. too believable.
 

TC McQueen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,592
I'm fairly sure what happened is a UI designer walked up to the producer and said: "If Exp Share is mandatory, we can make XP gains a single screen for the whole party instead of rattling them off one by one. Any reason to keep Exp Share optional?" And the producer thought about it for a moment and went "Nope."
Couldn't you just do a single screen listing all the party XP gains, then keep the optional XP share and just have XP values for the unused Pokemon not change?
 

Deleted member 51691

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 6, 2019
17,834
I'm fairly sure what happened is a UI designer walked up to the producer and said: "If Exp Share is mandatory, we can make XP gains a single screen for the whole party instead of rattling them off one by one. Any reason to keep Exp Share optional?" And the producer thought about it for a moment and went "Nope."
Tbh it is kind of satisfying seeing the XP of all your Pokemon increase all at once lol

The forced XP share isn't cool, though.
 

Joqu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,030
The Waffle Kingdom
People like to say Pokemon games haven't changed in 20 years but it's not true at all... for the worse

There's a huge difference between the explorability and difficulty of Pokemon of old and what we get now. There's still a lot to love as far as I'm concerned, but they're so linear they've basically become theme park rides now and a considerably amount of people pretend this isn't the case for some reason, or justify it with the kids and their mobile games excuse which I don't buy in the slightest, you shouldn't underestimate children like that.

A lot of hardcore Pokemon fans would be happy with a difficulty option and maybe some more branching paths again, some of us aren't asking for *that* much
 

Slim Action

Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,574
It would be the easiest thing in the world for there to be a "Hard mode" in a Pokemon game where trainers have higher levelled pokemon with better moves, and various other little tweaks like that. Romhackers do this kind of thing all the time with the older games, it's not a big deal.
 

Joqu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,030
The Waffle Kingdom
It would be the easiest thing in the world for there to be a "Hard mode" in a Pokemon game where trainers have higher levelled pokemon with better moves, and various other little tweaks like that. Romhackers do this kind of thing all the time with the older games, it's not a big deal.

It really would be. And hell, Game Freak has done it before even if the implementation was horrible
Black 2 and White 2 had a challenge mode that was incredibly obtuse to unlock, but once you had it it was actually good stuff
I can't believe they haven't made it a standard feature to be honest.
 

doodlebob

Member
Mar 11, 2018
1,401
Sure, or you could do seperate UIs for Exp. Share ON and Exp. Share OFF, but both variations wouldn't be as clean as the current solution.
You don't need a separate UI if the default is that EXP Share is on.

It would be a separate discussion if it was off by default, so you'd expect the UI to fit the default look. As it is, it wouldn't even be a thought that the player has.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,940
CT
It would be the easiest thing in the world for there to be a "Hard mode" in a Pokemon game where trainers have higher levelled pokemon with better moves, and various other little tweaks like that. Romhackers do this kind of thing all the time with the older games, it's not a big deal.

To do it well does take a bit of effort, there are a lot of bad romhacks out there that make the game stupidly hard with no sense of scale.
 

grmltr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,748
Is Huber doing a Shenmue review? I hope he does, though I could see them doing a 'no score' thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Is Huber doing a Shenmue review? I hope he does, though I could see them doing a 'no score' thing.

He's given $300 to the Kickstarter and said he might not review it. Still up in the air.

While I trust Huber, I don't think they should do it. It opens a whole can of worms, where people will question EZA reviews. Why even play with that?

Just do an impressions video. Thats what I think anyways.
 

Deleted member 51691

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 6, 2019
17,834
He's given $300 to the Kickstarter and said he might not review it. Still up in the air.

While I trust Huber, I don't think they should do it. It opens a whole can of worms, where people will question EZA reviews. Why even play with that?

Just do an impressions video. Thats what I think anyways.
I feel like Huber should put his thoughts on Shenmue 3 in video form, but maybe someone else should write up the actual review.
 

Deleted member 28523

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,911
He's given $300 to the Kickstarter and said he might not review it. Still up in the air.

While I trust Huber, I don't think they should do it. It opens a whole can of worms, where people will question EZA reviews. Why even play with that?

Just do an impressions video. Thats what I think anyways.

I agree with this. Plus I'm pretty sure they all signed agreements for their Gametrailer reactions to be used in promotions and compilations?

Should just do a 30 minute impression video and 30 minute spoiler mode.

i mean really we know what huber thinks about shemnue already.
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,095
I mean, even if Huber doesn't do it, (which I don't consider his situation a conflict of interest anyway since he's not getting a return on his "investment,") they can still have someone at EZA review it.
 

Liyfda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
349
The only thing I really want from Shenmue 3 with Huber is for him to take his time & soak it in. He's mentioned a couple of times, including on the recent podcast, about doing the review or just playing the game in peace. Shenmue 3 only comes once. I hope he's able to play it in his ideal environment.


For the sake of the Shenmue Conversation
1:34:54 is when Huber talks about reviewing Shenmue
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
I feel like Huber should put his thoughts on Shenmue 3 in video form, but maybe someone else should write up the actual review.
I mean, even if Huber doesn't do it, (which I don't consider his situation a conflict of interest anyway since he's not getting a return on his "investment,") they can still have someone at EZA review it.

I think Huber is the only one that has played 1 and 2.

I think it would do Shenmue a disservice by having someone review it that hasn't played 1 and 2.

Dunno.

Don't Skip is a good idea. Impressions a good idea. Spoiler mode (though I question who else is gonna play Shenmue 3) is also a good idea.

A review? Not worth inviting that kind of conversation into your reviews. Maybe it would literally turn into nothing. Maybe it would turn into something. Who knows.
 

Patent

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jul 2, 2018
1,621
North Carolina
I think Huber is the only one that has played 1 and 2.

I think it would do Shenmue a disservice by having someone review it that hasn't played 1 and 2.

Dunno.

Don't Skip is a good idea. Impressions a good idea. Spoiler mode (though I question who else is gonna play Shenmue 3) is also a good idea.

A review? Not worth inviting that kind of conversation into your reviews. Maybe it would literally turn into nothing. Maybe it would turn into something. Who knows.
I'm with damiani on this, its like he bought a collectors edition of a game he didn't invest like with fig or something and stands nothing to gain from giving it a review it doesn't deserve to hype up sales or something like that. But hes to pure of heart and probably wants to avoid giving it a review just in case and yea i think he could lift mjolnir
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
I'm with damiani on this, its like he bought a collectors edition of a game he didn't invest like with fig or something and stands nothing to gain from giving it a review it doesn't deserve to hype up sales or something like that. But hes to pure of heart and probably wants to avoid giving it a review just in case and yea i think he could lift mjolnir

Yes, Huber has nothing to gain financially.
At the same time, the video where he sees Shenmue 3 and breaks down into tears has like 2 million views on YouTube combined.

People will naturally think there is a bias there.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
Yes, Huber has nothing to gain financially.
At the same time, the video where he sees Shenmue 3 and breaks down into tears has like 2 million views on YouTube combined.

People will naturally think there is a bias there.
If it's only because of bias because he's a fan of Shenmue, then almost nobody can review sequels or games connected to specific companies any more. It happens all the time, especially with long running series or series which are generally well reviewed (eg. Zelda or Mario). Hell, even some big names in the industry have a lot of fans which can cause people to review a game differently because of that (eg. Kojima or Ueda come to mind, but there are plenty of others).

A professional reviewer is able to set all those feelings aside for the most part and tries to review a game as unbiased as possible.
There will always be some bias when people review something (even if someone likes a specific genre or not makes a difference) as that's just human nature, but it shouldn't make a big difference as long as it's an honest reviewer reviewing the game or movie or whatever.

Jones isn't allowed to review Rockstar games or openworld games anymore?
And almost nobody in the world can review the FF VII remake since FF VII is so beloved?

I'm sure Huber is able to honestly review the game. He can also preface the review if needed so people know he has backed the kickstarter (I don't see a difference with someone buying a game and then reviewing that game). They can then decide for themselves if they want to "trust" the review or not.

It's always best to watch or read reviews from people you more-or-less know their gaming preferences off anyway.

If Huber can't review Shenmue 3 because he's a big fan, Brad can't review the FF VII remake either imo (and probably nobody at EZA can, except for Jones).
That would just be silly. If people are that concerned with stuff like this, it's probably best that they stop reading or watching reviews as there is always some minor bias in one way or another.

That being said, I do understand if Huber decides not to review Shenmue 3. I personally don't think backing a kickstarter is a problem, but I understand why it wouldn't feel right.

In the end, a don't skip or impressions video is just as valuable as a review. The only difference is that there isn't an official score (which is just a number anyway). So even though I don't see a problem with having him review the game, it might be for the best to just do a don't skip or impressions video instead (even though it's silly that this needs to be discussed at all).
 
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Urbannomad123

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
347
Rugby, England
To be honest I hope Huber decides not to do the review. I would rather he got to play Shenmue 3 as a fan. It is not as if there aren't any other options to do some Huber/Shenmue 3 coverage. Just a chat with Brad would be good.
 

Brat-Sampson

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,467
There's literally no reason for Huber not to review it if he wants to.

Being a fan of a franchise isn't a conflict of interest.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,359
A professional reviewer is able to set all those feelings aside for the most part and tries to review a game as unbiased as possible.
There will always be some bias when people review something (even if someone likes a specific genre or not makes a difference) as that's just human nature, but it shouldn't make a big difference as long as it's an honest reviewer reviewing the game or movie or whatever.
I don't even get why this is a big deal. People should detect easily enough what kind of bias a reviewer might have (Huber was sobbing on stream when this game got announced I think I recall) and decide how that inflects upon the review.

Huber will speak to the Shenmue die hard audience, an outlet like Giantbomb might speak to people who are not. It would only be dishonest if both outlets in question hid their true feelings on the game (good or bad).
 

NekoNeko

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,447
is there even a need for a shenmue 3 review? just don't do one or get it out weeks after the release if you absolutely have to do one.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,339
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
Thanks to Pokemon I've been burning through Twitch archives and I must let you know: The Genocide-moment near the end of the final Granstream Saga session is a serious contender for the top spot in a Bosman Livestream Moments Top 10.
 

Deleted member 45468

Account closed at user request
Banned
Jun 27, 2018
258
Just preface the video with the backstory (e3 reveal, the Kickstarter, e3 when Huber was watched by Suz) and go to the review. I rather watch a review from a fan of the series then someone new since story is a big piece to Shenmue 3
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
I don't really see any conflict of interest when it comes to Shenmue 3 reviews. There will be plenty of reviews from non-fans.

Reviews from fans are absolutely necessary too when considering the purpose of reviews is to inform potential customers.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
I don't even get why this is a big deal. People should detect easily enough what kind of bias a reviewer might have (Huber was sobbing on stream when this game got announced I think I recall) and decide how that inflects upon the review.

Huber will speak to the Shenmue die hard audience, an outlet like Giantbomb might speak to people who are not. It would only be dishonest if both outlets in question hid their true feelings on the game (good or bad).
I can almost guarantee you that people who are reviewing for so many years (like all reviewers at EZA or similar outlets) are able to set aside most of their fandom. They obviously all have their own preferences and that will affect the score somewhat (which is always the case in every review and is perfectly fine), but it won't turn a 3/10 into a 9/10. It might even make him harsher being such a big fan (see what a lot of the biggest Pokemon fans are saying about the latest games).

Yes, a review is made by showing the reviewers feelings on the game, but most reviewers (especially the ones that worked for major outlets) know when to be objective and how to separate fandom from facts (it's obviously impossible to completely eliminate all fandom).

Damiani had negatives for BotW even though he is such a big Zelda fan. I'm sure Huber can do the same thing.
Btw, Huber is a fan of a lot of games, he has shown plenty of times in the past that he can do a great/honest review of game franchises that he loves.

It's more the question if Huber is willing to review the game (as you have to play the game differently) compared to just playing it at his own leisure.

Edit:
btw, I do agree that it's not a big deal.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,359
Yes, a review is made by showing the reviewers feelings on the game, but most reviewers (especially the ones that worked for major outlets) know when to be objective and how to separate fandom from facts (it's obviously impossible to completely eliminate all fandom).
I just feel for a game like this its maybe not useful or necessary to be as objective as possible. It's pretty clear from pre release chatter that the game will not work for a lot of people outside the fandom but work really effectively for those inside

Or at least that's how it seems, watching people talk about the trial version. There's value I think in giving the die hard fan's take on Shenmue 3 as this has been an emotional journey for people and that purely subjective reaction might be more useful than the objective one. Imo. Especially if the strong parts make it easy to overlook the weak parts

There's going to be lots of reactions to this game anyway and lots for people to decide what to make of it. Having many different PoVs is better than having people try and be objective

I liken this to something like the Deadwood movie, which is weak as a 2 hour episode of Deadwood but immense as a fan to be able to see the story continue/end (although I realise S3 doesnt end things either)
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
I just feel for a game like this its maybe not useful or necessary to be as objective as possible. It's pretty clear from pre release chatter that the game will not work for a lot of people outside the fandom but work really effectively for those inside

Or at least that's how it seems, watching people talk about the trial version. There's value I think in giving the die hard fan's take on Shenmue 3 as this has been an emotional journey for people and that purely subjective reaction might be more useful than the objective one. Imo. Especially if the strong parts make it easy to overlook the weak parts

There's going to be lots of reactions to this game anyway and lots for people to decide what to make of it. Having many different PoVs is better than having people try and be objective

I liken this to something like the Deadwood movie, which is weak as a 2 hour episode of Deadwood but immense as a fan to be able to see the story continue/end (although I realise S3 doesnt end things either)
I don't completely agree as I think a review should be as objective as possible, but I get what you mean.
Imo talking about it on Frame Trap or a similar type of discussion video is way better suited to talk subjectively about a game (and I'm sure Huber will talk plenty about Shenmue 3 in the coming years) instead of a review with a score bolted to it.

I personally haven't started the first 2 yet, so I can't really say what I thin about the series. I did kickstart Shenmue 3 and I bought the remaster day one as I wanted to play Shenmue for a very long time, I just never got around to it.

I'm sure it will be divisive just as the first 2 were, but that doesn't mean you can't do a good review of the game. You can still say what the negative points are or what can possibly bother people while saying that it doesn't bother you as much. I still find that an objective way of tackling a game as people can then decide for themselves if it would bother them or not.

We will see what he does. I personally have the feeling he isn't going to review the game. But whatever he chooses to do I'm sure Shenmue 3 will get mentioned a lot in the next couple of months.
 

Patent

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jul 2, 2018
1,621
North Carolina
I don't completely agree as I think a review should be as objective as possible, but I get what you mean.
Imo talking about it on Frame Trap or a similar type of discussion video is way better suited to talk subjectively about a game (and I'm sure Huber will talk plenty about Shenmue 3 in the coming years).

I personally haven't started the first 2 yet and I did kickstart Shenmue 3 (I wanted to play Shenmue for a very long time), so I can't really say what I thin about the series. I'm sure it will be divisive just as the first 2 were, but that doesn't mean you can't do a good review of the game. You can still say what the negative points are or what can possibly bother people while saying that it doesn't bother you as much. I still find that an objective way of tackling a game as people can then decide for themselves if it would bother them or not.

We will see what he does. I personally have the feeling he isn't going to review the game. But whatever he chooses to do I'm sure Shenmue 3 will get mentioned a lot in the next couple of months.
I got the feeling he didn't really want to review it formally anyways, it would effect how he plays the game and i think he just wants to enjoy it
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,339
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
When I go eat at a restaurant, I'm not interested in how many stars it got from a food critic who spent some of his own money to open the restaurant.

Knowing he is such a big fan of the cook, he paid $300 to buy them a kitchen, is a recommendation in itself. That's the review score: $300. Breaking the number down further to fit a 20-point scale is a waste of time, effort, joy, integrity, personal happiness and professional satisfaction.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
When I go eat at a restaurant, I'm not interested in how many stars it got from a food critic who spent some of his own money to open the restaurant.

Knowing he is such a big fan of the cook, he paid $300 to buy them a kitchen, is a recommendation in itself. That's the review score: $300. Breaking the number down further to fit a 20-point scale is a waste of time, effort, joy, integrity, personal happiness and professional satisfaction.
I honestly feel like you are selling Huber short as I do believe he can do an objective review for something he loves, even if he backed the game (there is also no way he's the only reviewer who backed a game). That being said, I do agree somewhat as I don't think it's necessary for him to review the game. I hope he will find a way so he can enjoy Shenmue 3 as much as possible.

Also, I'm sure plenty of reviewers had to buy a game themselves to review the game when they didn't get a code. I don't think that means that they are going to score it differently (or at least, you would expect most of them to not be influenced by that).
 

sora87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,866
I don't care about reviews really, i just want that shenmue 3 full playthrough with huber and kyle.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,144
I don't get why Huber wouldn't review Shenmue. Everyone at EZA has an emotional connection to the games they play. And frankly I wouldn't want to read a review by someone who didn't care about the game they're playing.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
I don't get why Huber wouldn't review Shenmue. Everyone at EZA has an emotional connection to the games they play. And frankly I wouldn't want to read a review by someone who didn't care about the game they're playing.
If he doesn't review it, my guess would be that he just wants to play the game at his own pace instead of rushing for a review.
We will see what he decides, he looked really torn when he talked about it before. Either is fine with me.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,339
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
I honestly feel like you are selling Huber short as I do believe he can do an objective review for something he loves, even if he backed the game (there is also no way he's the only reviewer who backed a game). That being said, I do agree somewhat as I don't think it's necessary for him to review the game. I hope he will find a way so he can enjoy Shenmue 3 as much as possible.

Also, I'm sure plenty of reviewers had to buy a game themselves to review the game when they didn't get a code. I don't think that means that they are going to score it differently (or at least, you would expect most of them to not be influenced by that).

I believe, as a matter of principle, no professional critic should think of themselves highly enough to attempt this. And as a reader of reviews, I don't want to grant any indidual reviewer the benefit of the doubt, whether warranted or unwarranted, I would withhold from members of their profession in general.

I also bristle at the guys streaming with Naughty Dog, getting their faces into Uncharted and wearing merchandise of companies they cover as part of their job, though.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,144
I believe, as a matter of principle, no professional critic should think of themselves highly enough to attempt this. And as a reader of reviews, I don't want to grant any indidual reviewer the benefit of the doubt, whether warranted or unwarranted, I would withhold from members of their profession in general.

I also bristle at the guys streaming with Naughty Dog, getting their faces into Uncharted and wearing merchandise of companies they cover as part of their job, though.
Tbh I think you're taking it all way too seriously. Game reviews aren't some sacred ritual where the reviewer must be quarantined, free from all influence. It's just dorks saying if they liked a game or not.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
I believe, as a matter of principle, no professional critic should think of themselves highly enough to attempt this. And as a reader of reviews, I don't want to grant any indidual reviewer the benefit of the doubt, whether warranted or unwarranted, I would withhold from members of their profession in general.

I also bristle at the guys streaming with Naughty Dog, getting their faces into Uncharted and wearing merchandise of companies they cover as part of their job, though.
I understand where you are coming from, but there's imo a difference with this or wearing a t-shirt from a specific game compared to getting money from a dev (EZA's 500 dollar Patreon tier) and reviewing that game (which EZA doesn't do for games they get sponsored for).

There's a reason why (gaming) magazines (and some youtubers, Linus Tech Tips is one of those) have separate teams who deal with sponsorships and keep those deals separated from the reviewers so they won't skew reviews. Being paid for a review is completely different to me than paying yourself for a game that you review. It's not even in the same ballpark.

So, I get where you are coming from, but I don't think it's feasible to not get anything from a publisher. The problem is that this means that it's probably best that you stop watching or reading reviews as most reviewers came somewhat in contact with the publishers. A lot of them get their games for free to begin with. That's also different than having to shelve out 60 euro (or whatever full price is) and can have an impact on how you feel about the game. They sometimes also get DLC for free.
 
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Aero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,779
Regardless of who reviews Shenmue 3, they should replace the "Review copy provided by Playstation" line with "Shenmue 3 funded by Huber".