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Boy Wander

Boy Wander

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
Well of course its my opinion....
Whats the point in stating its my opinion?
If you disagree with it why dont you say why?

Can you give an example of giving a game a 10 and another similar one a 6?

Also, isn't this how reviewing works, I'm sure EDGE isn't unique in the fact that different games get different scores, even if they're superficially similar.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Holy moly at that TR score. I've not played much of the game yet (played every other TR to completion), but when there are an abundance of games out there releasing all the time, eg recent examples being games like Gene Rain, Morphies Law, Umbrella Corps, Immortal Unchained, Bravo Team, Space Hulk, Earthfall etc, I'm really struggling to appreciate how SotTR could be bad enough to warrant a 4/10, a below average score. Comparatively these other games have been received considerably worse, unsurprisingly, as they have no where near the level of polish, control precision, production values, scope, progression, quality of gameplay, level design and so on and so on, as something like SotTR.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,949
Ouch at that Tomb Raider score. Lara's latest was among my most wanted new games, but now I'll just wait until it's under $20.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
Holy moly at that TR score. I've not played much of the game yet (played every other TR to completion), but when there are games out there just recently like Gene Rain, Morphies Law, Umbrella Corps, Immortal Unchained, Bravo Team, Space Hulk, Earthfall etc, I'm really struggling to appreciate how SotTR could be bad enough to warrant a 4/10, a below average score. Comparatively these other games have been received considerably worse, naturally, as they have no where near the level of polish, control precision, production values, scope, progression, quality of gameplay, level design and so on and so on, as something like SotTR.
Why does that inherently warrant a certain score? That's like saying a movie with the best visual effects, fantastic production design, great actors, and huge budget shouldn't get mediocre below-average reviews.

It doesn't matter how much production values and polish something has if the actual design and experience is flawed. And as much as I enjoyed the stealth and exploration/tombs and slower pacing of Shadow, the story, gameplay design, pacing, progression, etc were largely quite poor and below average compared to Rise and 2013. It had one of the most disappointing plots I've played in a while, and that in turn influenced the pacing and gameplay. It wasn't just a poor narrative with poor progression and shoddy rushed pacing but a feeling of potential being actively wasted as I played
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
7,502
Holy moly at that TR score. I've not played much of the game yet (played every other TR to completion), but when there are an abundance of games out there releasing all the time, eg recent examples being games like Gene Rain, Morphies Law, Umbrella Corps, Immortal Unchained, Bravo Team, Space Hulk, Earthfall etc, I'm really struggling to appreciate how SotTR could be bad enough to warrant a 4/10, a below average score. Comparatively these other games have been received considerably worse, unsurprisingly, as they have no where near the level of polish, control precision, production values, scope, progression, quality of gameplay, level design and so on and so on, as something like SotTR.

I can only personally give you my issues for the game, after completing it I can see someone giving this a 4/10, doesn't surprise me at all. The predator like gameplay is so few and far between it's crazy, the story is bad, Lara is badly characterized, and the full on combat and set pieces are bad and minimal. I mean some of these set pieces are joke like in how they're presented.
 

chobel

Attempting to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,493
What's "stan" exactly? And where did you see that in my posts?
Also i never said "barely" and in my opinion 8 is a great score.
You rated TR3 8 and you think it's the best in the trilogy meaning the prequels are 8 or lower, hence the word 'barely'.

And yes, you do stan for TR games. You always getting defensive when someone criticizes TR games, just recently you had a mini meltdown because a reviewer gave SoTTR 4/10 (not this review).
 

Deleted member 6733

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,441
A great write up on their six hours with RDR2. I'm getting quite excited for the game now! Sounds like it will be a stunner.

The reviews seem fair, though I can't comment on TR as I didn't pick this one up.

Overall a great read as usual.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
I can only personally give you my issues for the game, after completing it I can see someone giving this a 4/10, doesn't surprise me at all. The predator like gameplay is so few and far between it's crazy, the story is bad, Lara is badly characterized, and the full on combat and set pieces are bad and minimal. I mean some of these set pieces are joke like in how they're presented.
The craziest thing was it letting you unlock a skill early in the game (collect poison for fear arrows) that is really only most useful in New Game Plus because you don't get the ability to craft those arrows till many hours later, near the end of the game, and only get to use them in like three or four encounters.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Why does that inherently warrant a certain score? That's like saying a movie with the best visual effects, fantastic production design, great actors, and huge budget shouldn't get mediocre below-average reviews.

It doesn't matter how much production values and polish something has if the actual design and experience is flawed. And as much as I enjoyed the stealth and exploration/tombs and slower pacing of Shadow, the story, gameplay design, pacing, progression, etc were largely quite poor and below average compared to Rise and 2013. It had one of the most disappointing plots I've played in a while, and that in turn influenced the pacing and gameplay. It wasn't just a poor narrative but a feeling of wasted potential

Below average compared to what, past TR titles or the games I've listed above? Remember, average can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. When we're talking averages pertaining to a gaming outlet, the assumption is that they're playing a much greater diversity of titles, including much of the lower quality stuff that doesn't get as much coverage or nearly as many sales, hence changes the perception of what constitutes as average.

Also, I feel like you selectively chose which elements of my post to focus on and which to ignore. Notice I included gameplay, progression and level design in my list. I'm not saying production values supercede gameplay, just that they are another piece of the puzzle that can improve the overall quality of a game, or ones enjoyment of it.

And yes, personally I absolutely do feel that production values, sound design, graphics, polish, animations, scope, physics etc are things that can draw extra appreciation or commendation for an overall package. They're certainly things that impact my overall enjoyment of a game, hence I would include or factor that in to any review that I personally offered. They're certainly not things I simply take for granted, as ultimately entire teams of people (artists, designers, engine experts etc) have worked tirelessly to get things looking as beautiful, rich, expansive, refined or polished as they are.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,717
Why is TR a 4/10? The game is genuinely bad?

Well, no. It depends on who you ask. Some will say it's a bad game while others will say it's a good game. The reviews for it have been all over the map. It is true, that, it suffers from having inconsistent game design (e.g.: a skill tree thats filled with combat stuff and the game barely has any combat) and the writing is only marginally better compared to Rise which was heavily criticized for poor writing, though funnily enough the reviews didn't really seem to dock points for that at the time.
 

Treasure Silvergun

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 4, 2017
2,206
In the grand scheme of things, and considering the whole TR reboot trilogy, Edge's score could only be that.

Knowing the magazine and their scoring standards, I can't really disagree.

Further proof that a Metacritic score has hardly any value beyond fodder for meaningless forum discussions, too.
I don't always approve of Edge's takes, but in this case, I applaud Edge for being critic where so many other outlets simply couldn't because of the weight of the brand.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,502
The craziest thing was it letting you unlock a skill early in the game (collect poison for fear arrows) that is really only most useful in New Game Plus because you don't get the ability to craft those arrows till many hours later, near the end of the game, and only get to use them in like three or four encounters.

Agreed. There are so many inconsistencies in the game the more I think about it. That whole skill tree is a mess of useless abilities. The game really disappointed me. The exploration was good, and the graphics beautiful. I wish they balanced more predator encounters into the game as the predator stuff was genuinely really good.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
Below average compared to what, past TR titles or the games I've listed above? Remember, average can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. When we're talking averages pertaining to a gaming outlet, the assumption is that they're playing a much greater diversity of titles, including much of the lower quality stuff that doesn't get as much coverage or nearly as many sales, hence changes the perception of what constitutes as average.

Also, I feel like you selectively chose which elements of my post to focus on and which to ignore. Notice I included gameplay, progression and level design in my list. I'm not saying production values supercede gameplay, just that they are another piece of the puzzle that can improve the overall quality of a game, or ones enjoyment of it.

And yes, personally I absolutely do feel that production values, sound design, graphics, polish, animations, scope, physics etc are things that can draw extra appreciation or commendation for the overall package. They're certainly things that impact my overall enjoyment of a game, hence I would include factor that into any review. They're certainly not things I take for granted, as ultimately entire teams of people have worked tirelessly to get things looking as beautiful, rich, expansive, refined or polished as they are.
Both depending on the aspects.

As for your other point, the level design of the tombs are great, massively improved over the other two games but I found the overall level design, the gameplay, the pacing of gameplay, and progression largely quite poor. I actually enjoyed the stealth and new mechanics, but the structure in which those mechanics were placed felt quite flawed and rushed in many ways.

...production values, sound design, graphics, polish, animations, scope, physics etc are things that can draw extra appreciation or commendation for the overall package
I absolutely agree. I just don't think they inherently do. That just merely having high production values or competent sound design and nice graphics, physics, animations, etc means a game can't be given a poor/below-average score. It doesn't matter how gorgeous and polished it is production and aesthetic-wise, if the overall package doesn't come together.

A movie like The Cell looks gorgeous, it has beautifully surreal and elegant production design that clearly took great effort. That doesn't mean the movie isn't largely a poor work despite its rich and unique visuals
 

Lurcharound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,068
UK
Sterling redeemed!?! Haven't played new TR but that does seem low wow.

Also no Astro Bot? The suspense is killing me.

Forza Horizon consistency confirmed.
 

Tambini

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,381
Reading the quote and knowing EDGE use the full scale, I can see how they gave that score for TR
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
In the grand scheme of things, and considering the whole TR reboot trilogy, Edge's score could only be that.

Knowing the magazine and their scoring standards, I can't really disagree.

Further proof that a Metacritic score has hardly any value beyond fodder for meaningless forum discussions, too.
I don't always approve of Edge's takes, but in this case, I applaud Edge for being critic where so many other outlets simply couldn't because of the weight of the brand.

You applaud Edge for having a contrarian or outlier opinion? I don't think the feedback elsewhere has anything to do with the weight of the brand, rather other outlets having a more acute or slightly different perception of the bigger picture when it comes to averages.

What other reviews and the meta average (78) tells me, is that SotTR isn't as good as past TR titles, but is still better than a lot of the crap that routinely gets released that is of a much lower overall quality. What Edges review tells me is that actually SotTR is awful and is of a similar below average quality to stuff like Gene Rain, Morphies Law, Umbrella Corps, Bravo Team etc. But of course if you take one look at those games compared to SotTR, there's a laughable gulf in perceived quality. Who knows, perhaps Edge would have given those other games a 2/10 or something, though that still isn't seperating much from a 4/10.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,409
Wow never thought I'd see Edge give D2 Forsaken a 9. That's awesome and it's well deserved. It totally revitalized the game.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,717
In the grand scheme of things, and considering the whole TR reboot trilogy, Edge's score could only be that.

Knowing the magazine and their scoring standards, I can't really disagree.

Further proof that a Metacritic score has hardly any value beyond fodder for meaningless forum discussions, too.
I don't always approve of Edge's takes, but in this case, I applaud Edge for being critic where so many other outlets simply couldn't because of the weight of the brand.

you know there's lots of people that genuinely enjoyed the game, right?

You dont have to be a dishonest reviewer to say the game was great. It could just be... you know. An opinion.
Also I'm pretty sure the TR brand doesn't carry that much weight for it to be treated special. Even CoD games get sub 80 metacritic scores nowadays.
 
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Boy Wander

Boy Wander

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
You applaud Edge for having a contrarian or outlier opinion? I don't think the feedback elsewhere has anything to do with the weight of the brand, rather other outlets having a more acute or slightly different perception of the bigger picture when it comes to averages.

What other reviews and the meta average (78) tells me, is that SotTR isn't as good as past TR titles, but is still better than a lot of the crap that routinely gets released that is of a much lower overall quality. What Edges review tells me is that actually SotTR is awful and is of a similar below average quality to stuff like Gene Rain, Morphies Law, Umbrella Corps, Bravo Team etc. But of course if you take one look at those games compared to SotTR, there's a laughable gulf in perceived quality. Who knows, perhaps Edge would have given those other games a 2/10 or something, though that still isn't seperating much from a 4/10.

What Edges review tells you is nothing, because you haven't read it. If you had, you'd know that they don't think that the game is "awful", merely slightly below average.
 

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,384
Tomb Raider score is accurate especially with all the bugs. Worst being the recent audio bug they added in the latest patch, screw them for that.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
You applaud Edge for having a contrarian or outlier opinion? I don't think the feedback elsewhere has anything to do with the weight of the brand, rather other outlets having a more acute or slightly different perception of the bigger picture when it comes to averages.

What other reviews and the meta average (78) tells me, is that SotTR isn't as good as past TR titles, but is still better than a lot of the crap that routinely gets released that is of a much lower overall quality. What Edges review tells me is that actually SotTR is awful and is of a similar below average quality to stuff like Gene Rain, Morphies Law, Umbrella Corps, Bravo Team etc. But of course if you take one look at those games compared to SotTR, there's a laughable gulf in perceived quality. Who knows, perhaps Edge would have given those other games a 2/10 or something, though that still isn't seperating much from a 4/10.
Maybe if you only judge by score, instead of the context of the text

Never judge a review score as merely a number and comparing it to review scores from other sites and people. Simple having the same number means absolutely nothing because every single person weighs and judges things differently based on their individual tastes and experience. The logic of "these games got X score, so this game reviewed by this other person with X score means that reviewer feels it's on the same level as those games" is inherently flawed because it makes the assumption that all reviews and reviewers are judging and weighing the same elements of a game in the same way, so there's some kind of objective quality for each score tier.

Only judge a review score by the context of the individual review and that individual reviewer's past scores. That's the only metric and information that gives a review score any kind of inherent value.
 

Aeferis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,626
Italy
Having actually played Shadow of the Tomb Raider I don't agree with the score but I definitely agree with that quote. It's a very good looking title with some very good developers behind but to me it felt like a huge mess of half-baked ideas randomly assembled together to make something long enough to be called a AAA game.

I'm gonna read the full review later today (or whenever the magazine is available on Zinio).
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
What Edges review tells you is nothing, because you haven't read it. If you had, you'd know that they don't think that the game is "awful", merely slightly below average.

The written snippet from the OP makes it sound terrible and well below average lol. Granted perhaps the rest of the review is less harsh, but without more text I couldn't say. At the end of the day, the score matters and has meaning and representation, if it didn't or they didn't intend it to, simply put they wouldn't include one.

"By then, any sense of coherence has long left the building. Disjointed and directionless, Croft's descent into darkness is, shockingly, one hell of a mess"
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,263
Yup, edge wanted to be edgey I guess.

giphy.gif
 
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Boy Wander

Boy Wander

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
The written snippet from the OP makes it sound terrible and well below average lol. Granted perhaps the rest of the review is less harsh, but without more text I couldn't say. At the end of the day, the score matters and has meaning and representation, if it didn't or they didn't intend it to, simply put they wouldn't include one.

"By then, any sense of coherence has long left the building. Disjointed and directionless, Croft's descent into darkness is, shockingly, one hell of a mess"

The score has meaning in the context of EDGE and it's review history and general approach.
If you're comparing say a 5/10 for one site to a 5/10 to another site, the meaning can be different depending on how they generally use the scale.

Even though EDGE abandoned it years ago, their one-word description that they used to attach to each score is still a decent guide to their overall feeling on a game. Under that system a 4 would have been "disappointing". Which in the case of SOTR, probably holds true for quite a few people who've played it.
In my experience ,if EDGE expect a game to be good, and it turns out to be quite a bit worse than they were anticipating, they tend to score a point or two more harshly than other outlets.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,662
Shadow of the Tomb Raider has a really moronic plot, Trinity are basically the Templars from Assassin's Creed minus the Animus.
 
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Boy Wander

Boy Wander

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
Boy Wander do you have any snippets for spelunky 2?

Are you looking for anything specifically? The preview is in the form of snippets of interview with Derek Yu. It talks about how he's designed it with a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality", but has added things such as a back-layer accessible through doors hidden in walls, and dynamic physics-based liquids - water drains from pools and lava floods passageways are given as examples.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
The score has meaning in the context of EDGE and it's review history and general approach.
If you're comparing say a 5/10 for one site to a 5/10 to another site, the meaning can be different depending on how they generally use the scale.

Even though EDGE abandoned it years ago, their one-word description that they used to attach to each score is still a decent guide to their overall feeling on a game. Under that system a 4 would have been "disappointing". Which in the case of SOTR, probably holds true for quite a few people who've played it.
In my experience ,if EDGE expect a game to be good, and it turns out to be quite a bit worse than they were anticipating, they tend to score a point or two more harshly than other outlets.
Oh that definitely sums up my stance. Shadow wasn't...necessarily a bad game, since it had a lot of strengths as well, but it was one of the most disappointing games I've played in years
 

Green Yoshi

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,597
Cologne (Germany)
Wow, a 4 for Shadow of the Tomb Raider does seem surprising given that the previous two games in the series both got an 8 from Edge. They must have really disliked this one. Is there anything else from the review that sticks out?
I heard a German podcast about the game last weekend. All three podcasters hated the game despite two of them had liked Rise of the Tomb Raider.
You can't read the game. Sometimes Lara can perform major jumps and sometimes a small abyss is already too big.

And even Melania Trump would behave better than Lara in a developing country. ;-)
 

Djavanes

Member
Nov 15, 2017
87
4 for Tomb Raider is insane. We should never give any score to a game. We should recommend it or not. And by any means Tomb Raider is 4 score game. Even if you don't like the story, the gameplay is impressive. Even if its not your type of game. Its a very well done game. This is Industry working against industry. Its a shame.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,715
4 for Tomb Raider is insane. We should never give any score to a game. We should recommend it or not. And by any means Tomb Raider is 4 score game. Even if you don't like the story, the gameplay is impressive. Even if its not your type of game. Its a very well done game. This is Industry working against industry. Its a shame.

These are your opinions. I don't need to tell you what a review comprises, do I?
 

George Romero

Member
Oct 5, 2018
809
I dont know if tomb raider deserves a 4, i dint played the game, but based on what i see, its a 7 game.
RDR 2 will receive a 10
 
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Boy Wander

Boy Wander

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
4 for Tomb Raider is insane. We should never give any score to a game. We should recommend it or not. And by any means Tomb Raider is 4 score game. Even if you don't like the story, the gameplay is impressive. Even if its not your type of game. Its a very well done game. This is Industry working against industry. Its a shame.

The review points out specifically WHY the gameplay isn't impressive and why it's disappointing.

I don't see how the game getting a 4/10 is any worse for its reputation than a bunch of 'Not recommended'. Using a 'Recommended/Not Recommended' is even more black and white than using a scale. It basically boils games down to 'Shit' and 'Not Shit'.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,117
4 for Tomb Raider is insane. We should never give any score to a game. We should recommend it or not. And by any means Tomb Raider is 4 score game. Even if you don't like the story, the gameplay is impressive. Even if its not your type of game. Its a very well done game. This is Industry working against industry. Its a shame.

Maybe they didn't think the game was as well done or the gameplay as impressive as you did. Is that so hard to fathom?
 

Caspar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,402
UK
When Edge give Red Dead 2 a 6/10 next month I'm not gonna look at this thread without putting on some serious eye protection first.