We kinda of have too. Empathy is a survival tool but for the majority is a luxury they opt in and out of
Editor Del Rey Books: “intensity” of Star Wars discourse makes it hard to find new writers
- Thread starter Lifejumper
- Start date
Exactly. This is SUPER no duh stuff coming from outside of the fandom. I look at it from afar and its like.... "Jesus Christ. Who the fuck would want to work on that". I don't blame them. Why willingly expose yourself to that rather than taking a million other writing/directing jobs... Whatever prestige the franchise had, ain't worth it anymore. Fuck that.
You're saying that people don't watch enough (bad) movies to know that Star Wars is actually average? and the fact that they don't realise this and voice their disappointment (granted people can be nasty when they dislike something) is making Star Wars toxic?
That's one point of view but at what point do you consider that maybe Stars Wars upping it's game might help things?
Sherlock Holmes(I'm talking OG when people took to the streets when Holmes was killed)
Star Trek
Prequel SWs(when toxic fandom really went mainstream)
These three wrote the book on toxic fandoms, the core of it all being possessiveness and entitlement by fans basing their identities on the media they consume. The current SWs sequel era fandom menace is what happens when you combine that with the likes of the Gamergate playbook and you know, general social media amplification.
Star Trek
Prequel SWs(when toxic fandom really went mainstream)
These three wrote the book on toxic fandoms, the core of it all being possessiveness and entitlement by fans basing their identities on the media they consume. The current SWs sequel era fandom menace is what happens when you combine that with the likes of the Gamergate playbook and you know, general social media amplification.
I will help you bear this burden, zma1013, so long as it yours to bear.
That poster is saying that Star Wars is not "fucking trash" and if you think it's "fucking trash" then you've obviously never experienced "fucking trash".
The way we discuss things is a problem. It's not enough to just dislike something for whatever reason, it has to be objectively the worst thing ever.
Star Wars "upping it's game" wouldn't solve anything, because actual quality isn't the issue. Something could be the highest possible quality but if someone doesn't like it they can't simply say "I don't like it", instead it's "that fucking sucks, it's a real piece of shit, fuck that actor, fuck the writer, fuck the director, fire that woman in charge of everything".
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User banned (1 month): excusing harassment
In the past 21 years, eight movies made, objectively two have been average/above average (TLJ & RO) and the rest have been poor and the problem is people aren't nice about it on the internet?
You're right tho this isn't about the quality of the movies this is really about the alt right and their bullshit.
Mad max FR had a strong female lead, BP a black cast but the alt right doesn't touch those movies because they're great fucking movies!
Maybe make a great SW movie and the majority of alt right trolls will fuck off? Just a thought.
AND they're saying it's the nastiness that has killed the franchise now? Fuck me. Nobody wants to work on the franchise because the poor quality has utterly tainted it.
You're right tho this isn't about the quality of the movies this is really about the alt right and their bullshit.
Mad max FR had a strong female lead, BP a black cast but the alt right doesn't touch those movies because they're great fucking movies!
Maybe make a great SW movie and the majority of alt right trolls will fuck off? Just a thought.
AND they're saying it's the nastiness that has killed the franchise now? Fuck me. Nobody wants to work on the franchise because the poor quality has utterly tainted it.
...You and I remember the lead up to Black Panther VERY differently.
They did go after those movies, though FR at least benefited from coming out early enough in the rise of the alt right that they weren't as loud about it.
Lol, alt right doesn’t give less of a shit about quality.
And they did absolutely go after Black Panther and Fury Road.
Well I'm sure the hardcore did but it certainly didn't penetrate into the mainstream in terms of reputation and I don't hear people attack those movies on their quality or under the guise of quality as opposed to the soft alt right being all over SW.
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Man, even people in this thread are like "oh gee gosh, that's really too bad that some people contemplated suicide. Not worth it when the movies are so bad and the writers have no creative control! Here's my fresh new updated take on how DISNEY ruined Star Wars that you haven't read before!"
Reminds me of the thread where KMT got harassed off of social media, and you had people rushing into the thread to be the first to unload their "wow, her character is awful and her more attractive sister who has like 2 lines should have been the one to survive, but people shouldn't say mean things to her!" take.
Reminds me of the thread where KMT got harassed off of social media, and you had people rushing into the thread to be the first to unload their "wow, her character is awful and her more attractive sister who has like 2 lines should have been the one to survive, but people shouldn't say mean things to her!" take.
Those movies have been in no way tainted by alt right trolls or reactionaries OR even people who just didn't like the movies.
If you're saying I wasn't aware of any alt right attacks on those movies, it being covered in the mainstream media and me not seeing it (knowingly or unknowingly) then that's correct.
But the novels were never congruent with the films, at least on a wholly presentational level from film. Even Lord of the Rings had to take certain liberties when adapting the material to film.
FWIW, I feel that at some point there will be soft adaptations from the books into film at some point. We've already seen it happen to a small degree on Clone Wars and Rebels.
The novels were usually a marketing afterthought to keep the franchise relevant during its more drier periods.
Poor quality because of the intense scrutiny by the fanbase.
You can argue Lucas got old and out of touch but Disney’s a fucking machine with limitless cash who even their -worst- movies are serviceable because of their resources. You can argue that its balancing all that lore/story aspects but meanwhile in their Marvel division...
Objectively TLJ was critically acclaimed but according to large swaths of the internet it’s the worst film of all time, lol. When there’s that kind of pressure when you turn in an objectively solid film by normal non-fan based metrics and you get that kind of blowback from the expected incel trolls but also the ‘I didnt pay 18 bucks for Luke to be a whiney bitch’ nostalgia crowd you have your work cut out for you.
What I'm hearing is that it's time to revive the EU and pick back up with Christie Golden's canceled Sword of the Jedi trilogy. Things were much more relaxed when they were more low-key.
I actually like the new Star Wars stuff, but the stranglehold they've kept on the literary wing of the Star Wars universe has been heartbreaking. The books had reached a point where they didn't have to have anything to do with characters best kept on the big screen, where they were just good books all on their own. What makes the core cast and their plot lines great does not translate to the novels.
I hope the High Republic brings a little bit of that freedom and book-first mentality back
I actually like the new Star Wars stuff, but the stranglehold they've kept on the literary wing of the Star Wars universe has been heartbreaking. The books had reached a point where they didn't have to have anything to do with characters best kept on the big screen, where they were just good books all on their own. What makes the core cast and their plot lines great does not translate to the novels.
I hope the High Republic brings a little bit of that freedom and book-first mentality back
OP
OP
Chuck Wendig had to go through twenty shitstorms of fan attacks because he wrote in a gay character in one of his SW novels.
If I were a writer I wouldn't touch SW novels.
If I were a writer I wouldn't touch SW novels.
They really aren't, and they really don't. Baseball fans literally beat a man to death for wearing the wrong jersey. Star Wars has some really shitty people, but last I checked there hasn't been an actual murder of one fan by another.
We were obviously talking about fan backlash against fiction writers. Sure, if you include sports fans' violence against each other, those are far more violent, but at that point you might as well include stuff people actually go to war over, like politics or religion.
I'd be fine with them going back to some of the older writers. I miss Troy Denning and Matthew Stover.
Yep, Stars Wars internet is basically horrific these days, and I've pretty much checked out of most all discourse.
With Rogue One and especially The Last Jedi, Star Wars upped its game considerably.
The problematic fans want space wizard fanservice starring their favorite characters, not good movies.
Okay let's bump it up then. Out of the 8 made in the last 21 years lets say two were great/good and 6 were average.
That's still not a great return is it? Best case scenario it's still disappointing.
If you're saying the Abrams sequels/RO weren't fan service (let's exclude TLJ) then I dunno what to tell you.
Unless you take the extreme position that all metrics for evaluating movies are 100% subjective, it's not really a leap to call RO and TLJ objectively above average. Especially since the implied comparison is with other Star Wars films.
There are commonly agreed upon standards for what makes a good movie. It would be absurd to imagine that all movies are exactly as good as each other, and any apparent differences in quality are merely projections of opinion.
Rogue One has elements of fanservice, but it's not defined by fanservice just because it features recognizable and popular elements from its own world. It actually does a good deal of meaningful world building by showing the darker side of the Rebellion and fleshing out the Death Star's history.
The Abrams sequels, however, definitely have a fanservice problem. That's because Abrams doesn't understand or care about substantial themes or character writing. He likes to regurgitate the things he finds delightful in classic Star Wars.
It's surprising that TFA produced a character as good as Kylo Ren.
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The way I've seen reylo fans attack anyone and everyone who doesn't fall in line with their ship/vision of Kylo Ren is something else. From harassing and attacking John Boyega for making a simple joke, going after a publicist that said that many of their posts badgering the star wars twitter account for more reylo oriented posts even if their tweet has nothing to do with the sequel trilogy was actually flagged as negative engagement and would not result in more content. Now they're going after Rae Carson for no other reason than her doing her job. For some reason the excuse to all of this is the fact that the majority of reylos are women and so all of this is ok and we should stop being critical of how the relationship was handled because uh.... We're women?????
Star wars fandom is just a whole ass mess and it came out of this trilogy with a whole new subset of crazed fans that are desperate to be catered to and refuse to have even an ounce of self awareness.
Star wars fandom is just a whole ass mess and it came out of this trilogy with a whole new subset of crazed fans that are desperate to be catered to and refuse to have even an ounce of self awareness.
