• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Elder Scrolls Online Quietly Adds New 'Spyware' & Players Are Trying Figure out How to Opt Out

Heon

Heon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
135
fPe1ArU.png

In a recent patch, Bethesda's Elder Scrolls Online quietly added a "marketing attribution program" called Red Shell to its desktop client.

According to the Red Shell FAQ, the program tracks:
" Red Shell is a software package used by game developers and publishers to help them measure the effectiveness of their marketing campaigns. It works by tying information from marketing campaigns to in-game play.... Red Shell tracks information about devices. We collect information including operating system, browser version number, IP address, screen resolution, and font profiles... We do not collect any personal information about gamers. We don't collect names, emails, or addresses. Our service basically says 'this computer clicked on a link from this YouTube video and the same computer played your game.' "
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There's an ongoing concerted effort on the official ESO forums to find the best way to either block or opt-out of the spyware software for privacy reasons. The program also raises issues concerning Europe's new GDPR laws, as players are not given the explicit option or instructions to opt in or out of the program, though that might be covered by the game's privacy policy.

Since there has been no official response from ZeniMax Online Studios or Bethesda as of writing, players took the initiative to email Red Shell themselves for opt-out instructions, and have been trying to block the servers using the Hosts file.

Red Shell replied, and said they would be "working with Bethesda to determine how you can pull the Bethesda Account ID we need from you to implement the opt-out for ESO in particular".

Sources: Massively / ESO Forum Thread
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
huge violation of privacy to just casually patch this into the game without telling the players.
 
zombieshavebrains

zombieshavebrains

Member
Nov 1, 2017
809
Hmmm I just started this game too. I'm fine with an opt out but they seem to have already done it without asking anyone's permission. I'd appreciate it if you at least asked first.
 
TheZynster

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,285
hoping Europe sues them..........you can't just do this shit without the option to opt out.
 
Plumpbiscuit

Plumpbiscuit

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,927
I'm pretty sure this is a violation of privacy right here first without accepting a new contract.

Yeah this is one of many reasons why I don't play online games and why I ain't looking forward to Fallout 76, when companies can just pull stunts like this and get away with it.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
i have to wonder at this day and age why do companies continue to pull this shit? they have to know they can't get away with it, someone will find out and it will create negative publicity for their product.
 
Doctoglethorpe

Doctoglethorpe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,214
The stuff it's tracking isn't really that big of a deal. Basically just them seeing what the most popular hardware configurations are. Hopefully people read that and don't jump to the assumption that it's spying on your web browser or something.

That said, it should obviously be an opt-in and not mandatory.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
Doctoglethorpe said:
The stuff it's tracking isn't really that big of a deal. Basically just them seeing what the most popular hardware configurations are. Hopefully people read that and don't jump to the assumption that it's spying on your web browser or something.

That said, it should obviously be an opt-in and not mandatory.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Who do I believe, you? Or Red Shell's homepage?
 

whistleklik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
260
Kentucky
Ridiculous. Last time I remember a company trying spyware was EA and the game was Battlefield 2142. Still cant believe people are still trying this kind of nonsense.
 
Barrel_Roll

Barrel_Roll

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
963
Don't see what the big deal is here /shrug

So far as I can tell, it isn't affecting my client performance (unlike, say, Denuvo).

But sure, let people opt out who want to opt out.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
Barrel_Roll said:
Don't see what the big deal is here /shrug

So far as I can tell, it isn't affecting my client performance (unlike, say, Denuvo).

But sure, let people opt out who want to opt out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Denuvo's impact on game performance is marginal. What's not a marginal impact is the online check ins that will eventually bring every game that still has Denuvo "protection" offline when either their deal ends or the company goes kaput.
 
Wolf

Wolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,845
It's like they sent out privacy policy updates and didn't actually read what GDPR is
 
Facism

Facism

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,918
Barrel_Roll said:
Don't see what the big deal is here /shrug

So far as I can tell, it isn't affecting my client performance (unlike, say, Denuvo).

But sure, let people opt out who want to opt out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Should be an opt in and an agreement for revenue sharing if they make any money from activities involving any of your user data.
 
TrubbleFrog

TrubbleFrog

Member
Feb 23, 2018
929
Barrel_Roll said:
Don't see what the big deal is here /shrug

So far as I can tell, it isn't affecting my client performance (unlike, say, Denuvo).

But sure, let people opt out who want to opt out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This really isn't that big of a deal. This sort of info is just slightly deeper than what just about any website can get from you with Google Analytics. This type of data lets developers / ad agencies figure out if their ad campaign is working or not. The quote about them being able to link a user to watching a YouTube video to playing their game is a little misleading as well. Taking a quick glance at their site, it looks like the developer / agency is able to set a predefined URL to track back to launching / doing something in the game.

If people are considering this to be spyware you might as well clear your cookies and browser histories every time you visit a new website, because a lot of your very basic data like browser and device is being tracked.

That being said, I agree that users should be able to opt out of this if they choose.
 

Deleted member 41931

User requested account closure
Member
Apr 10, 2018
3,744
You'd think they'd realize now isn't the best time to try and pull this shit.
 
Last edited:
Risev

Risev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,406
What the fuck? All the goodwill Elder Scrolls Online garnered through its constant improvements and they're willing to ruin it all for this shit?
 
KefkaPalazzo

KefkaPalazzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,593
Enough backlash and I'm sure they will remove it in future patches.

Don't understand why a company with a MMO that's so successful would do something to risk damaging it. Especially when similar to FF14, one that wasn't good at launch but has been made good through substantial additions and changes. Don't risk that goodwill you built.
 
Runner

Runner

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,700
best way to block Red Shell is to hold a green shell or banana behind your kart
 
Lukar

Lukar

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,351
mazi said:
i have to wonder at this day and age why do companies continue to pull this shit? they have to know they can't get away with it, someone will find out and it will create negative publicity for their product.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They probably think that whatever data they can get before people notice and before it's removed is worth it.
 
Big Boy

Big Boy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,894
To break GDPR laws it has to be able to be tied to an actual person. If they are genuinely collecting anonymous data it would not break GDPR but if they collect something like a steam ID, even if they then don't collect any info from Steam, that ID can still have the potential to be tied to an individual in some way and would therefore need an opt-in. If they simply use a random ID that has no link to personal information then it's not breaking GDPR.
 
Paganmoon

Paganmoon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,586
Chocolate & Vanilla said:
To break GDPR laws it has to be able to be tied to an actual person. If they are genuinely collecting anonymous data it would not break GDPR but if they collect something like a steam ID, even if they then don't collect any info from Steam, that ID can still have the potential to be tied to an individual in some way and would therefore need an opt-in. If they simply use a random ID that has no link to personal information then it's not breaking GDPR.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Your IP can definitely be linked to a person, in fact, in Sweden, they're considered personal data/records (along with some types of browser cookies). So they could be breaking GDPR even by logging your IP.
Besides, Bethesda also knows what IP you're coming from when you start the game, and can (and most likely will) use this information to understand how and if you've changed your playstyle after having seen/clicked on said promotion.
 
Seraphis Cain

Seraphis Cain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,453
ZOS responds:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5188725/#Comment_5188725

Everyone,

My apologies for the confusion over the integration of Red Shell into ESO. Here's what happened: we have been experimenting with a better way to link which advertisements and web content new players see to the eventual account that is created in the game. The ONLY purpose this would be used for is to determine from which origin points our new players come from, so we can better plan where to place advertisements and other web content. Existing accounts will never encounter this, as they are already created.

Several factors came together in Update 18 and Red Shell was erroneously added to the live build when we were still testing and evaluating it. It has never been active in ESO, even though the base tech is in the client – i.e. it was never enabled. So, we will remove it from Update 18, which will take place in the PC/Mac incremental build scheduled for this coming Monday (it was never considered for Console, so won't be in Tuesday's U18 launch). We never should have done this without giving everyone a heads up it was coming, and we will learn from this mistake.

That being said, we are still investigating how to use this technology in the future to grow and sustain ESO more effectively. When/if we do so, we will give everyone a heads up with clear instructions as to what it is doing, how it is doing it, and how to opt-out should you so desire.

Check out the patch notes on Monday for the notice that Red Shell has been removed from U18, and we will keep everyone posted – and again, my apologies.

Matt
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
riotous

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Seattle
This kind of thing doesn't bother me; they know someone did stuff and correlate it with other stuff, they don't give a crap who that someone is.
 
Volimar

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,325
I don't even really care about the spyware but them doing it so quietly really makes me say

H71hUJs.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.