Electric Vehicles |OT| EV 2.0

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,534
Ford is (IMO) doomed.
Ford seems to really be betting on their ICE truck sales keeping them afloat. At least they do have the Mach E though, Chrysler seems to truly not care all that much about EV's. GM is at least making an honest effort, I'd honestly say of the American big 3 GM has the best outlook for the future at the moment.

Can you imagine if GM hadn't killed the EV1 program back in the late 90's? They had a goldmine and they crushed it into scrap metal instead. Such a shame, they could have led the industry into the future if they had just decided to.
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,724
Mesa, AZ
Ford is (IMO) doomed.
Like the whole company? No way. Not only will their truck sales keep them alive, but they have a fairly big presence around the world.

Ford seems to really be betting on their ICE truck sales keeping them afloat. At least they do have the Mach E though, Chrysler seems to truly not care all that much about EV's. GM is at least making an honest effort, I'd honestly say of the American big 3 GM has the best outlook for the future at the moment.

Can you imagine if GM hadn't killed the EV1 program back in the late 90's? They had a goldmine and they crushed it into scrap metal instead. Such a shame, they could have led the industry into the future if they had just decided to.
I don't think Chrysler really has to do anything. They've always been the smallest of the big 3, and it seems the majority of their current line-up targets a specific market that doesn't care about electric cars. Their trucks sell well, and so do their big sedans. I don't see Jeep going away anytime soon either.
 

SpecX

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
970
Like the whole company? No way. Not only will their truck sales keep them alive, but they have a fairly big presence around the world.



I don't think Chrysler really has to do anything. They've always been the smallest of the big 3, and it seems the majority of their current line-up targets a specific market that doesn't care about electric cars. Their trucks sell well, and so do their big sedans. I don't see Jeep going away anytime soon either.
This is one of the main issues that got Chrysler into trouble with the market collapse. They invested in nothing but what was hot at the moment and once the market quickly downsized to smaller vehicles, they had nothing to offer and compete. Once again, the demand is there now for big trucks, suvs, and their rwd V8's are selling like crazy, but they need to do more than the PHEV Pacifica before the market shifts and they have nothing to offer buyers.

The Chrysler brand only has 2 vehicles, the Pacifica and 300, and it's the only brand in their portfolio that is lacking an identity/theme at this point. Jeep had off road covered, Ram has trucks covered, and Dodge has performance covered. FCA should take Chrysler and make it an "affordable luxury" electric brand. It's worked for them making "affordable luxury" ICE vehicles and would be a big win for them which could also help their EPA numbers that the Hellcats demolish.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,567
Looking to get a EV, but not sure where to start. The Tesla Model 3s look nice, but I assume other car companies have been able to offer affordable, well-made alternatives with a good amount of range now.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,181
Looking to get a EV, but not sure where to start. The Tesla Model 3s look nice, but I assume other car companies have been able to offer affordable, well-made alternatives with a good amount of range now.
Not especially actually. the range and associated battery size seems to be a big governer of price. I was looking at the 250-ish mile cars that recently started being avaialble - eg Kia e-niro/hyundai Kona etc and they're around £35-38k for that range. Model 3 base model is just over £40k. So it is more expensive, but not massively more. And Kia/Hyundai are relatively budget brands so they appear overpriced. Maybe lack of supply or 60-65Kwh batteries are just damn expensive? It certainly made me look a little more at the model 3.

If you can get over the range issue and can manage with more like 150-180 miles, there are a few options in lower price brackets - 40kwh leaf, zoe, peugeot 208 etc (I'm just going from UK availability, don't know about other markets)

So they are currently tending to tier in price more by battery/range than anything else.
 

brochiller

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
729
Not especially actually. the range and associated battery size seems to be a big governer of price. I was looking at the 250-ish mile cars that recently started being avaialble - eg Kia e-niro/hyundai Kona etc and they're around £35-38k for that range. Model 3 base model is just over £40k. So it is more expensive, but not massively more. And Kia/Hyundai are relatively budget brands so they appear overpriced. Maybe lack of supply or 60-65Kwh batteries are just damn expensive? It certainly made me look a little more at the model 3.

If you can get over the range issue and can manage with more like 150-180 miles, there are a few options in lower price brackets - 40kwh leaf, zoe, peugeot 208 etc (I'm just going from UK availability, don't know about other markets)

So they are currently tending to tier in price more by battery/range than anything else.
Not sure if you both plan to use the car for any type of long distance trips, but be sure to account for the supercharging network. It's a massive advantage for Tesla.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,181
Not sure if you both plan to use the car for any type of long distance trips, but be sure to account for the supercharging network. It's a massive advantage for Tesla.
Not especially - maybe once every couple of months, and only 150 miles each way. So thinking even a basic model would be fine. And yes, superchargers do seem an advantage. In the UK other chargers are getting better, but still not ideal.

Can a tesla charge from a standard 7kw wall box? Not sure I'd want to install a proprietary box at home just in case we change cars or even get another one down the line
 

brochiller

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
729
Not especially - maybe once every couple of months, and only 150 miles each way. So thinking even a basic model would be fine. And yes, superchargers do seem an advantage. In the UK other chargers are getting better, but still not ideal.

Can a tesla charge from a standard 7kw wall box? Not sure I'd want to install a proprietary box at home just in case we change cars or even get another one down the line
You can use a regular outlet to charge. It doesn't get you much charge quickly, but I know it works for a lot of people since the car is sitting there overnight anyway. Even if you do want to upgrade home charging speeds there are other options besides Tesla proprietary connectors.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,567
Not especially actually. the range and associated battery size seems to be a big governer of price. I was looking at the 250-ish mile cars that recently started being avaialble - eg Kia e-niro/hyundai Kona etc and they're around £35-38k for that range. Model 3 base model is just over £40k. So it is more expensive, but not massively more. And Kia/Hyundai are relatively budget brands so they appear overpriced. Maybe lack of supply or 60-65Kwh batteries are just damn expensive? It certainly made me look a little more at the model 3.

If you can get over the range issue and can manage with more like 150-180 miles, there are a few options in lower price brackets - 40kwh leaf, zoe, peugeot 208 etc (I'm just going from UK availability, don't know about other markets)

So they are currently tending to tier in price more by battery/range than anything else.
Okay, I see. Thanks for the info.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,181
I thought it was 239

Mercedes : 194 miles = 312km Audi : 206 miles = 331km Nissan : 208 miles = 334km Jaguar : 223 miles = 358km Kia : 255 miles = 410km Tesla : 270 miles = 434km

(thats real world testing - WLTP on the e-niro is 282 miles, so real world is pretty accurate. Some of those on that list were much lower than the declared WLTP ranges. Hyundai Kona WLTP is 278 miles
 

Octodad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,553
Not especially - maybe once every couple of months, and only 150 miles each way. So thinking even a basic model would be fine. And yes, superchargers do seem an advantage. In the UK other chargers are getting better, but still not ideal.

Can a tesla charge from a standard 7kw wall box? Not sure I'd want to install a proprietary box at home just in case we change cars or even get another one down the line
You can get a Nema 14-50 plug that will work with any EV (some might need an adapter that about $40). This will allow you to use it with any EV and charge at about 35 miles per hour. There’s a federal credit that rebates 1/3 of the cost of installing this. Depending on your setup this will cost under $1,000.
 

Argyle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
375
You can get a Nema 14-50 plug that will work with any EV (some might need an adapter that about $40). This will allow you to use it with any EV and charge at about 35 miles per hour. There’s a federal credit that rebates 1/3 of the cost of installing this. Depending on your setup this will cost under $1,000.
MrKlaw is in the UK, so I don't think they use NEMA 14-50. Teslas there use the CCS charge port instead of the proprietary one in the US.

Everything there is 230V IIRC so that probably makes it easier to get a decent charge rate in the garage.
 

Octodad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,553
MrKlaw is in the UK, so I don't think they use NEMA 14-50. Teslas there use the CCS charge port instead of the proprietary one in the US.

Everything there is 230V IIRC so that probably makes it easier to get a decent charge rate in the garage.
Ah my apologies for thinking US centric. It’s a bad habit. Thank you for clarifying.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,181
MrKlaw is in the UK, so I don't think they use NEMA 14-50. Teslas there use the CCS charge port instead of the proprietary one in the US.

Everything there is 230V IIRC so that probably makes it easier to get a decent charge rate in the garage.
ah that’s right - I’ve been watching too many US youtube videos. Uk has CCS so a CCS wallbox should be fine. when I eventually do this I’ll want a smart box so I can try and use at least some of my solar panel output at weekends. for commuting I can probably do all week without charging in a car with 250 mile range
 

DrEvil

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,034
Canada
Just got called to participate in some kind of EV charging monitoring pilot by my local utility, dunno when it's meant to start but that's kinda fun.. Here's hoping I get a hefty discount on my TOU pricing :)
 

Mollymauk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,620
Just picked up a Kia Niro EV. Significant upgrade over the 2016 Leaf I had. Range went from around 90 at best to 239+. Although it says 260 remaining right now 😀

This lease ended up being cheaper than the base model Leaf with a 150 or so range would have been. I’m in the Seattle area.
 

Mollymauk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,620
how are you liking it so far?
which trim did ya get?
I love it so far. The longer range feels like such a luxury. There are a few places I would drive to around here in my old leaf that would have me watching the range nervously. It’s so nice to not have to worry about that anymore.

And there is a ton of quality of life improvements as well. There are a bunch of analytics tracking things that are fun to see. Like what system is using how much power, and how many miles more you’ll get by turning off the heater. How much you have been driving vs sitting at traffic stops. So much info.

I think it’s a bit zippier too. Good power. It just feels like an all around upgrade.

Oh, and I got the gravity blue, which is almost a grape color haha.
 
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bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,172
I am looking at getting a car and was thinking maybe I would get an EV.

Budget of 35k or so. Any good used options?
 

Ryno23

Member
Dec 13, 2017
831
I am looking at getting a car and was thinking maybe I would get an EV.

Budget of 35k or so. Any good used options?
I mean the obvious answer is to try and splurge a little for the 39k Model 3 SR+ if you can, as it's not likely you'll find a used one for much less than the sticker price if at all.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,029
Houston

The age of EV DLC is coming.
As opposed to hey dealership why didn't my car come with X? Oh sorry you have to get the super elite slx trim to get that feature.
If you'd like we'll buy your brand new car you just bought from us for pennies on the dollar and sell you that trim level.
 
Feb 1, 2018
3,030
The Tesla Model 3s look nice, but I assume other car companies have been able to offer affordable, well-made alternatives with a good amount of range now.
Nope, there’s literally no competition. I wish there was!

I guess you can get Bolt, Kona, or Niro, but those are econoboxes.

Closest thing is the BMW i4 and it wont be out for a couple years.
 

Ryno23

Member
Dec 13, 2017
831
It’s against my religion to buy cars at retail.

I don’t mind waiting.
Well you can obviously monitor Tesla's website for their used inventory. Perhaps alot of people will decide to trade in towards a Model Y who knows.

There's also this site I'm aware of for private sales:

I just checked and seen a few standard+ sell for around 36k with very little mileage so perhaps it would save you a few bucks
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,172
Well you can obviously monitor Tesla's website for their used inventory. Perhaps alot of people will decide to trade in towards a Model Y who knows.

There's also this site I'm aware of for private sales:

I just checked and seen a few standard+ sell for around 36k with very little mileage so perhaps it would save you a few bucks
There is too much demand and not enough cars. Still seems very overpriced.

I don’t care about the crazy acceleration but I would want a range of at least 250 and for that price you seemingly need to spend more money than I want to spend on another commuter car.

I will just get another Lexus and hopefully in 5 more years there will be more options for me to choose from.
 

Byakuya769

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,312
There is too much demand and not enough cars. Still seems very overpriced.

I don’t care about the crazy acceleration but I would want a range of at least 250 and for that price you seemingly need to spend more money than I want to spend on another commuter car.

I will just get another Lexus and hopefully in 5 more years there will be more options for me to choose from.
If you’re driving a Lexus, a model 3 is going to piss you off on price and interior design, and then the bolt/Kona/niro are going to feel cheap in certain ways.

How far off in price and range is the volvo xc40?
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,172
If you’re driving a Lexus, a model 3 is going to piss you off on price and interior design, and then the bolt/Kona/niro are going to feel cheap in certain ways.

How far off in price and range is the volvo xc40?
I am sure eventually someone will make an electric that is perfect for me. You are right about the 3. The interior is crap and it just looks like an expensive Mazda to me. The super speed is not appealing to me but the autopilot is.
 

Ryno23

Member
Dec 13, 2017
831
I am sure eventually someone will make an electric that is perfect for me. You are right about the 3. The interior is crap and it just looks like an expensive Mazda to me. The super speed is not appealing to me but the autopilot is.
Have you driven one? Pictures do not do the serenity and wide open clean interior justice, it really needs to be experienced, I find it to be absolutely sublime and could never go back. Not to mention just how damn snappy and responsive the touchscreen and user interface is. I think people see the screen and imagine its like the rest of the industry... Straight out of 2006 and a headache inducing slow low quality nightmare, but that's really not the case. Technology is the new luxury.
 

DrEvil

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,034
Canada
I concur with Ryno above, the 3 is absolutely wonderful inside and out. The cabin is spacious and simple, I love it and have a really hard time going back to the cluttered interiors of ICE cars whenever I have a rental etc.

The centre screen is amazing and fast, its amazing how much that simple interface has made a difference in my driving hapiness.
 

Byakuya769

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,312
I concur with Ryno above, the 3 is absolutely wonderful inside and out. The cabin is spacious and simple, I love it and have a really hard time going back to the cluttered interiors of ICE cars whenever I have a rental etc.

The centre screen is amazing and fast, its amazing how much that simple interface has made a difference in my driving hapiness.
Are you renting luxury vehicles? My last major car purchase I was considering the X, but the interior just struck me as bush league for a $100k car, and made me feel like it still wasn’t prime time for luxury BEVs. My only impression for Model 3s is admittedly based off of their online building tools.
 

DrEvil

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,034
Canada
Are you renting luxury vehicles? My last major car purchase I was considering the X, but the interior just struck me as bush league for a $100k car, and made me feel like it still wasn’t prime time for luxury BEVs. My only impression for Model 3s is admittedly based off of their online building tools.
Hm? No? I'm renting normal cars like a normal person, I'd much prefer my 3 over any Hyundai Accent or Honda Civic or Mazda CX-3 or whatever. I don't need to spend more on a gas car when I have an EV at home. If I'm on vacation, get me from A to B and that's all I need.

My point is, the simplicity of having every control on the touch screen vs a litany of buttons throughout the cabin is the major selling point for me when it comes to the Model 3 interior. Luxury or not, not having physical buttons everywhere is an incredibly welcome change.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,172
Have you driven one? Pictures do not do the serenity and wide open clean interior justice, it really needs to be experienced, I find it to be absolutely sublime and could never go back. Not to mention just how damn snappy and responsive the touchscreen and user interface is. I think people see the screen and imagine its like the rest of the industry... Straight out of 2006 and a headache inducing slow low quality nightmare, but that's really not the case. Technology is the new luxury.
Yes. I like the drive (I was actually surprised at how much I liked the handling) but for me I think the interior and generally the quality and fit was pretty poor.

For me price is the most important thing though. I have bought news luxury cars in the past but now I am over it. I want something with a little luxury but can last me a long ass time. That Porsche looks nice but fuck paying retail on something that is going to be replaced in 8-10 years. I can revisit EVs once this commuter car dies in another 8 years.
 

Venatio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,151
So I just got solar on my house, and the next logical step seems to be getting an electric car, especially since I commute 300+ miles a week, and I don't need to worry about electricity costs. Is there anything in the mid to high 20k range worth buying? I would love a Tesla, but 40k is a little too steep for me.

edit: wow, I can get a used (50k miles) 2017 Nissan Leaf for $12k....is that a decent commuter car? my commute is roughly 70 miles a day, so I would be saving close to $300/month on just gas.
 
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Byakuya769

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,312
Hm? No? I'm renting normal cars like a normal person, I'd much prefer my 3 over any Hyundai Accent or Honda Civic or Mazda CX-3 or whatever. I don't need to spend more on a gas car when I have an EV at home. If I'm on vacation, get me from A to B and that's all I need.

My point is, the simplicity of having every control on the touch screen vs a litany of buttons throughout the cabin is the major selling point for me when it comes to the Model 3 interior. Luxury or not, not having physical buttons everywhere is an incredibly welcome change.
... so you’re comparing a $45k+ car to economy class cars.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
1,890
Is insurance as insane for Model 3s elsewhere in the world as it is here? For comparison's sake, we currently pay about £350 a year for two drivers on a four-year-old Mazda CX-5, and I've been quoted about £500 a year on the same basis for a 2020 RAV4 hybrid when we switch this summer. My quotes for a Model 3 - which I was also weighing up as an option - started at £1,500 a year.

Is this part of the whole "people hate Tesla as a figurehead of the EV revolution" thing? Are Tesla's still really prone to being vandalised for that reason? Is it about the expense of repairing them? The likelihood of crashing them?

It's not a value thing or an EV thing. Insurance for a Jaguar I-Pace or Audi e-Tron would have been about half the price of the Model 3, and those are more expensive and still all-electric cars. Not to mention the fact that the Model 3 is only between £4k and £10k more expensive than the RAV4 Hybrid.
 
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Ryno23

Member
Dec 13, 2017
831
Is insurance as insane for Model 3s elsewhere in the world as it is here? For comparison's sake, we currently pay about £350 a year for two drivers on a four-year-old Mazda CX-5, and I've been quoted about £500 a year on the same basis for a 2020 RAV4 hybrid when we switch this summer. My quotes for a Model 3 - which I was also weighing up as an option - started at £1,500 a year.

Is this part of the whole "people hate Tesla as a figurehead of the EV revolution" thing? Are Tesla's still really prone to being vandalised for that reason? Is it about the expense of repairing them? The likelihood of crashing them?

It's not a value thing or an EV thing. Insurance for a Jaguar I-Pace or Audi e-Tron would have been about half the price of the Model 3, and those are more expensive and still all-electric cars.
Here in the US at least you absolutely need to shop around, some companies just don't want to play nice with Tesla. Geico, who was my current insurance quoted me at like $250 a month for basic coverage on Model 3. Went with Progressive because they gave me absolutely max coverage for $80 a month..... The Tesla insurance horror stories are usually from people that didn't bother to shop around.
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,534
Yes. I like the drive (I was actually surprised at how much I liked the handling) but for me I think the interior and generally the quality and fit was pretty poor.
I honestly love the interior of the Model 3, but then I've never been a fan of "luxury car" interiors either. I prefer utility and simplicity over extravagance. It’s one reason I like Subaru’s so much, their interiors are solid but basic in nature. I hate needless clutter in car interiors.

The luxury car class has never appealed to me, so much fluff and so much that can break over time, just too much shit in them. Tesla’s seem almost simple by comparison much like an old VW Beetle, and I appreciate that design ethos. I value dependability and function over indulgence and complexity.

I’d buy a Model Y today if I didn’t love my Crosstrek so damn much, but I’d never ever consider any normal luxury car on the market today. Once my Crosstrek starts giving my problems and wearing out I’ll go looking at Teslas. Or once my willpower gives out and I decide to cave in to desire. Whichever happens first, lol.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,834
edit: wow, I can get a used (50k miles) 2017 Nissan Leaf for $12k....is that a decent commuter car? my commute is roughly 70 miles a day, so I would be saving close to $300/month on just gas
What part of the country do you live in?

Im guessing it's more down south if you have solar?

I'd be very wary of the Leaf. It has no active cooling for the battery, so these cars battery degrades very quickly in warm climates. A used one driven in such a climate wouldn't have a battery in very good shape and may struggle with that commute with a degraded battery, especially if you need climate control(heat in winter especially).

The Bolt is the best deal right now, I think they're practically giving them away right now with incentives for $26K IIRC. Used ones go for less.
The car is pretty much made by LG so the usual GM reliability doesn't apply.

That's probably the direction I'm going in the next year or so.