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Electric Vehicles |OT| EV 2.0

Ryno23

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
Venatio said:
Holy shit, only 900? I'm talking to 2 dealerships in Orange County, CA, and one has 4 vehicles and the other has 3. But that totally explains their complete unwillingness to move the price. They wouldn't even drop it $900 to make it an even $40k.
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Byakuya769 said:
Oooo. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
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Well yeah if an EV is only for sale basically in California in limited numbers that should be a hint that it's just a cynical sleezy gaming of the zero emissions mandate and not a serious attempt to you know manufacturer and sell Evs... And all the companies pulling this crap should absolutely be called out.
 
MrKlaw

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,029
Ryno23 said:
Well yeah if an EV is only for sale basically in California in limited numbers that should be a hint that it's just a cynical sleezy gaming of the zero emissions mandate and not a serious attempt to you know manufacturer and sell Evs... And all the companies pulling this crap should absolutely be called out.
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EU has regs around needing A manufacturer total product range to average <75g Co2. PHEVs and EVs really help being that average down and they need to sell in enough volumes to offset higher emission vehicles. So it is in their interests to have higher supply.

for the Kona it may just have caught them off guard. They've been providing them actively to you tubers which you'd think they might not bother if it was just a paper exercise
 
Ryno23

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
MrKlaw said:
EU has regs around needing A manufacturer total product range to average <75g Co2. PHEVs and EVs really help being that average down and they need to sell in enough volumes to offset higher emission vehicles. So it is in their interests to have higher supply.

for the Kona it may just have caught them off guard. They've been providing them actively to you tubers which you'd think they might not bother if it was just a paper exercise
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insideevs.com

FINAL UPDATE: Quarterly Plug-In EV Sales Scorecard

The most comprehensive listing of plug-in EV sales for the United States. Compiled quarterly, yearly, and all-time by automaker.
insideevs.com insideevs.com

I misspoke it was ~1,700 for the year, ~900 in Q4

For the US it absolutely is a paper excersize, I think the majority of the production is going to EU for the very reasons you stated. Regardless the point is these companies are only doing the absolute bare minimum to scrape by and not a single unit more.

Basically I'm suspicious of anything that isn't even at the Leafs level, 1k a month seems like a basic token minimum effort, the Eton of course is luxury and has tons of marketing $$ behind it though so it's different:
US-Tesla-electric-vehicle-sales-January-December-2019-1-CleanTechnica.png

Tesla Gobbled Up 78% Of US Electric Vehicle Sales In 2019* - CleanTechnica

While the Tesla Model 3 was the 9th best selling car in the country and had more than 150,000 sales in the USA, the next best selling non-Tesla on the market was the Chevy Bolt with 16,418 sales, followed by the Nissan LEAF with 12,365 sales.
cleantechnica.com cleantechnica.com
 
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Kernel

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,851
thehill.com

GOP senator wants to exclude the rich from electric vehicle tax credit

Republican Sen. Mike Braun (Ind.) will propose limits to the electric vehicle tax credit, aiming to eliminate it for the wealthy. He hopes to get rid of the credit for people making above a ce…
thehill.com thehill.com

Republican Sen. Mike Braun (Ind.) will propose limits to the electric vehicle tax credit, aiming to eliminate it for the wealthy.

He hopes to get rid of the credit for people making above a certain income threshold and to limit the credit for vehicles costing less than $45,000.

A spokesperson for Braun told The Hill in an email that Braun will propose the measures as both their own legislation and as amendments to a sweeping energy bill introduced last week by Sens. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) and Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) that could be the best chance this year to expand the use of cleaner forms of energy.

His measure to limit the credit by income would eliminate it for joint tax returns over $326,600 and individual returns over $163,300.
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Look they want to get rid of tax credits for the rich /s
 
Ryno23

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
www.autoblog.com

VW ID.3 electric car's software bugs threaten summer launch

Volkswagen's issues with software code continue, according to a report in Germany's Manager Magazin and picked up by Automotive News.
www.autoblog.com www.autoblog.com

The automaker planned to build and store up to 20,000 ID.3's in parking lots, the cars to get fleshed-out software manually installed by technicians with mobile consoles. The first 10,000 cars were meant to get the proper software downloaded in March. If the newest Manager story is accurate, that won't be happening. The publication cited company engineers as saying "the basic architecture was developed too hastily," so the various modules "often do not understand each other" and suffer dropouts. Meanwhile, up to 50 of the electric hatchbacks roll off the line each day and are taken to storage facilities.
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Board members and development team heads meet twice a day, morning and afternoon, to discuss problems, after which hundreds of test drivers take ID.3 units out every evening to proof fixes. An attendee at the daily briefings claimed test drivers would report up to 300 software bugs every day.
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What a complete shit show.
 
Ryno23

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
Mengy said:
This is Tesla's competition, and it shows just how immensely far behind them they are.
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Yeah Tesla rolling out V2 track mode to Model 3 yesterday, while VW has 10,000 parked cars with the batteries just rotting and no working software really underscores the situation. EVs are all about software and these legacy fossil fuel companies have no experience and farm out their software to 7 different places and patch it all together.... It's a total disaster, they will never "catch up", with Tesla's rate of innovation they honestly don't stand a chance. Tesla deserves so much credit for the complete vertically integrated computer ob wheels it really is next level. Companies like Rivian etc that can start from a clean slate will be Tesla's only real competition period.

Even if VW manage to get the software working and deliver the cars it still has embarrassing piss poor specs and value compared to a model 3, you'd either have to be a massive VW fan or massive Tesla hater to choose it instead:
 
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Dr.Phibes

Dr.Phibes

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,175
The Socialist Hellscape of Europe
Ryno23 said:


Yeah Tesla rolling out V2 track mode to Model 3 yesterday, while VW has 10,000 parked cars with the batteries just rotting and no working software really underscores the situation. EVs are all about software and these legacy fossil fuel companies have no experience and farm out their software to 7 different places and patch it all together.... It's a total disaster, they will never "catch up", with Tesla's rate of innovation they honestly don't stand a chance. Tesla deserves so much credit for the complete vertically integrated computer ob wheels it really is next level. Companies like Rivian etc that can start from a clean slate will be Tesla's only real competition period.

Even if VW manage to get the software working and deliver the cars it still has embarrassing piss poor specs and value compared to a model 3, you'd either have to be a massive VW fan or massive Tesla hater to choose it instead:
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Beathing them at everything but build quality...
Seriously, why do folks get mad at people buying Taycans instead of a Model S? That's like Corvette owners getting mad at people buying 911s.
 
Ryno23

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
Dr.Phibes said:
Beathing them at everything but build quality...
Seriously, why do folks get mad at people buying Taycans instead of a Model S? That's like Corvette owners getting mad at people buying 911s.
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It's more likely a response to the years and years of Taycan is a "Tesla killer" articles, when it clearly is anything but, than anyone actually getting mad about it.
 
captive

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,988
Houston
Dr.Phibes said:
Beathing them at everything but build quality...
Seriously, why do folks get mad at people buying Taycans instead of a Model S? That's like Corvette owners getting mad at people buying 911s.
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if you want an EV because you want the best most efficient EV, then you buy a porsche i could see why people would be annoyed. But if you want a porsche because its a porsche be my guest.

when you have 100k+ to spend on a car i dont think money matters much.

also lol at beating them on everything but build quality.
 
Mengy

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,369
I still believe the traditional car companies will get their act together eventually, but not anytime soon. They are just too far behind Tesla to catch up quickly. I don't think we will see any serious Tesla competition for another 5 to 10 years, and even then it will be parity with Tesla, not surpassing them.

In the meantime Tesla is going to run RAMPANT in the EV market.
 
turbobrick

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,050
Phoenix, AZ
Mengy said:
I honestly love the minimalism of the Model 3/Y. I can understand why some people think it feels "cheap" without all those fancy gauges and gadgets and such, but personally I prefer sleek and efficient over "fancy".
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I don't think the Tesla interior feels cheap because of the minimalism. I find its annoying. I hate not having gauges in front of the driver. I also hate having to use a touch screen for all controls instead of having physical knobs or buttons. And this isn't a Tesla exclusive problem, its something a lot of manufacturers do and I hate it.

Ryno23 said:
It's more likely a response to the years and years of Taycan is a "Tesla killer" articles, when it clearly is anything but, than anyone actually getting mad about it.
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I blame journalists for writing headlines to get clicks calling every new electric car a "tesla killer".

For the Taycan, I think Porsche knows their audience for the car. They don't need to sell more than Tesla, because with its high price, I'm sure they make good profit on each one. I don't doubt they've said they plan on beating Tesla, but every manufacturer says that to build hype and get people interested.

Its like the poster above comparing the Taycan vs Model S to the Corvette vs 911, which I think is pretty accurate. While they are called rivals, I don't think potential buyers really cross-shop them. The Porsche is more expensive and its slower. The Corvette is the clear winner for most bang for the buck, but a person buying the 911 knows that and doesn't care, as the 911 is a nicer car to drive. I imagine the comparison is similar in regards to the Model S vs Taycan.
 
SquirrelSaysNuts

SquirrelSaysNuts

Banned
May 15, 2018
1,898
Denmark
Maybe for about 3/4 of the price of a model 3 standard range, it's worth the wait.

Ryno23 said:


Yeah Tesla rolling out V2 track mode to Model 3 yesterday, while VW has 10,000 parked cars with the batteries just rotting and no working software really underscores the situation. EVs are all about software and these legacy fossil fuel companies have no experience and farm out their software to 7 different places and patch it all together.... It's a total disaster, they will never "catch up", with Tesla's rate of innovation they honestly don't stand a chance.
[...]
Even if VW manage to get the software working and deliver the cars it still has embarrassing piss poor specs and value compared to a model 3, you'd either have to be a massive VW fan or massive Tesla hater to choose it instead:
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UnderNewOwnership

Member
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
It's finally official: Dacia will receive a slightly modified (mainly to comply with EuroNCAP) version of the Renault K-ZE currently sold in China. Details are rather scarce for now, apart from general dimensions (which are pretty much in line with the K-ZE). The only note regarding engine/autonomy is a vague mention of "200 km real-world usage". No word on pricing, however it is expected to be lower than the Volkswagen e-up!/SEAT Mii Electric/Skoda Citigo-e iV (currently the cheapest electric cars sold in the EU).
 
Ryno23

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
Kernel said:
www.ccn.com

GM Licensing Its New Battery Tech Could Put Tesla Out of Business

The new battery tech from GM could be a nightmare for Tesla. Even worse, GM plans to license the superior technology to other auto makers.
www.ccn.com www.ccn.com

Amusing prediction from CNN.

Apparently GM will put them out of business.
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Lol their heralded 400 mile range requires a 200 kwh battery for release in like what 2025? Model S you buy right now today gets 390 miles on 100 kwh... But sure thing they have better battery tech
 
Marshall

Marshall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,976
I wonder if car sales will slow due to COVID-19 and its global economic impact. Meaning, folks may reduce their spending, and reducing automobile purchases would be first on the list for most. That said, perhaps Tesla drops the price a bit to entice purchases during these times. It will be interesting to see.
 
Hairtux

Hairtux

Member
Oct 25, 2017
106
Marshall said:
I wonder if car sales will slow due to COVID-19 and its global economic impact. Meaning, folks may reduce their spending, and reducing automobile purchases would be first on the list for most. That said, perhaps Tesla drops the price a bit to entice purchases during these times. It will be interesting to see.
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I was wondering the same and if that means it's a good time for me to finally make a purchase.
 
Parch

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
7,980
EV only sales stats are deceptive because they completely disregard hybrid sales. All that does is make Tesla look more important than they really are. Hybrid vehicles also have significant environmental impact and have been part of the EV market for decades, and they will continue to do so.
 
MrKlaw

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,029
Parch said:
EV only sales stats are deceptive because they completely disregard hybrid sales. All that does is make Tesla look more important than they really are. Hybrid vehicles also have significant environmental impact and have been part of the EV market for decades, and they will continue to do so.
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Self charging hybrids are a waste of time - kits make better more efficient engines and buy smaller/lighter cars

plug in hybrids are better - but I wonder how many people drive them like full EVs (to get most of daily commute being electric), bs just buy them for tax incentives/access to low emission zones and never plug the damn things in?
 
Byakuya769

Byakuya769

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,718
MrKlaw said:
Self charging hybrids are a waste of time - kits make better more efficient engines and buy smaller/lighter cars

plug in hybrids are better - but I wonder how many people drive them like full EVs (to get most of daily commute being electric), bs just buy them for tax incentives/access to low emission zones and never plug the damn things in?
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I sincerely doubt people are paying all that extra money for a PHEV to just get a tax benefit often dwarfed by the uptick in price against the standard engine.
 
Ryno23

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
Skip to ~52 second mark, best look I've seen so far of Model Y sitting next to a 3 and an X for size comparisons.


Also apparently Model Y deliveries start today not next week

Lots of shots going around of the cargo space too:

 
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Mengy

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,369
I can't wait to see a MY in person and test drive one. I'm on the test drive list so it shouldn't be too long now.
 
MrKlaw

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,029
What's a congestion incentive!? Unless it's just tesla calculating savings based on not paying congestion charge?

good that they've moved price on LR but now the performance is big impact. Wonder if they can sell that as a software unlock on the LR
Edit: it's predicted savings based on not paying £25 per day to travel into the ULEZ plus congestion charge, plus estimated fuel savings from driving god knows how many thousand miles per year

I need to set up a company and give myself a company car - big tax savings on EVs there including 100% write off in first 12 months
 
Ryno23

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
MrKlaw said:
What's a congestion incentive!? Unless it's just tesla calculating savings based on not paying congestion charge?

good that they've moved price on LR but now the performance is big impact. Wonder if they can sell that as a software unlock on the LR
Edit: it's predicted savings based on not paying £25 per day to travel into the ULEZ plus congestion charge, plus estimated fuel savings from driving god knows how many thousand miles per year

I need to set up a company and give myself a company car - big tax savings on EVs there including 100% write off in first 12 months
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Oh so it's not like a rebate? I wasn't familiar with this until I seen these tweets thought it was useful info to share, sorry if it seems misleading never heard of congestion charges
 
MrKlaw

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,029
Ryno23 said:
Oh so it's not like a rebate? I wasn't familiar with this until I seen these tweets thought it was useful info to share, sorry if it seems misleading never heard of congestion charges
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no worries - got excited it might have been a thing announced in the budget this week. But it's Tesla estimating savings based on travelling into London every day for three years. They do the same with gas savings - cheeky Sods
 
Ryno23

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
MrKlaw said:
no worries - got excited it might have been a thing announced in the budget this week. But it's Tesla estimating savings based on travelling into London every day for three years. They do the same with gas savings - cheeky Sods
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So basically they dropped the price of the LR to qualify for the 3K rebate then. They do offer an acceleration boost on the LR here in US at least it takes it to 3.9 0 to 60 from 4.4 for $2000(real world tests people have been getting 3.5ish in good conditions)...I did it on mine lol It's not performance speed but for the price it was nice middle ground.
 
Ryno23

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
Kernel said:
electrek.co

Lexus dealer spams Tesla owners: 'You've had your fun, now it's time for zero compromise'

A Lexus dealer in Texas is spamming Tesla owners to encourage them to trade in their Tesla vehicle, telling them:...
electrek.co electrek.co

oXb1vdL.jpg


Toyota seems scared.
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Zero compromise... Other than you now have to buy gas empowering big oil, it spews emissions to your neighborhood and local community, it's way slower and less fun to drive, the tech and user interface is an embarrassment straight out of 2005 in comparison, it has an insane number of extra parts that will break down and the vehicle will last 100s of thousands of miles less... and it's a less safe vehicle to drive. But yeah, no compromises lol Welcome to the year 2020 Toyota/Lexus, hybrids were a nice stop gap for the year 2009, where the fuck is your EVs?
 
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