Ellen Page calls out Chris Pratt's "infamously anti-LGBTQ" church

Rez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,040
I might be missing a dog whistle or something, but the ban of legend a page or two back seems way out of line?

Edit: oh, “sexual ethic”
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,206
Nobody is saying that Pratt is defined by his church, but his membership and fellowship at such a church can only be seen as a tacit endorsement of their practices, no matter how you slice it (especially when he denies their nefarious behavior).
It's implied. Rather forcefully.
 
Oct 27, 2017
650
It's implied. Rather forcefully.
Holding him accountable for being a member of a bad church isn't the same as defining him by that church. If you support a church with abhorrent views, then you get called out for it. Especially when you can just leave the church. When the path to forgiveness is so easily laid out and your choice is to stay on the path you're already on, it's on you that the way you're perceived gets worse and worse.

He's not the victim here.
 
Nov 17, 2017
260
So basically you're here to defend homophobia as as simply a different opinion.
I'm not here to defend it, but I am trying to understand how we can live together in a pluralistic society. I got a warning that this wasn't a place for "philosophical" discussion, so I'll happily just step out on the convo, but I think this is a really important topic to both protect the rights and dignity of LGTBQ+ people, and to find reasonable expectations from those who disagree and will not quickly learn to change their minds.
 
Oct 25, 2017
30,603
I'm not here to defend it, but I am trying to understand how we can live together in a pluralistic society. I got a warning that this wasn't a place for "philosophical" discussion, so I'll happily just step out on the convo, but I think this is a really important topic to both protect the rights and dignity of LGTBQ+ people, and to find reasonable expectations from those who disagree and will not quickly learn to change their minds.
Reasonable expectations are as follows

  1. Don't be homophobic
 
Nov 4, 2017
2,188
California
Chris Pratt should just join a place of Christian worship that isn't Anti-LQBTQ and keep his yap shut. My Mother goes to a Lutheran Church back on the east coast that has a gay Pastor, does outreach to LGBTQ youth, and is welcoming regardless of a person's identification. They don't proselytize either. Attraction, not a promotion as they say.

Sidenote: I've been to a Hillsong service in downtown LA. Anti-LQBTQ bullshit aside they are also creepy AF. They definitely have a vibe and methodology similar to Scientology functions I've also been to/dragged to over the years living out here.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,462
Reminds me of when people shit on Obama back in the day because his pastor/whatever said incendiary things. A church doesn't make a person.
Yes because gay marriage and gay rights haven't changed in over a decade right?

A church doesn't make a person, but the people they surround themselves with reflect back on the person. 100%. If I surround myself with MAGA hat wearing fuckos and I swear and swear that I don't support Trump nor the things he said, what are you going to believe? What I said or what I do? You can't make these empty statements and hope that it will just blow over.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,226
All over social media people are calling out Ellen in return stating "why is she intolerant of his beliefs?"

The scary thing is the incredible amount of support posts like these are getting.
 
Nov 17, 2017
260
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory false equivalencies surrounding identity and thread derailment; ignoring previous warning
Everyone knows what you're up to.
You keep insisting I'm up to something. I'm not. I just care about actually learning and trying to let peoples ideas bump up against preconceived notions. The language my poly friends use is that they are born "non-monogmous" and therefore their desire to be in poly relationships is as much a part of their identity as someones monogamous hardwiring.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,799
You keep insisting I'm up to something. I'm not. I just care about actually learning and trying to let peoples ideas bump up against preconceived notions. The language my poly friends use is that they are born "non-monogmous" and therefore their desire to be in poly relationships is as much a part of their identity as someones monogamous hardwiring.
I mean, yes, people are born with the ability to be attracted to & love multiple people. Whether people are ok with polygamous relationships (in modern context) is very much a cultural thing or something that a whole lot of environmental factors affect. I think you're really confusing "attraction to multiple people is natural for animals, humans included" with the cultural idea of polygamy & monogamy and you deciding to be with one or multiple partners at once. Even monogamous people can be attracted to more than one person, but for whatever reason, in their mind being with a single partner is the way they want to do the whole relationship. That's really not biological. That's not the same thing as being gay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,034
Whoops, didn't know I hit post.

Anyway, what I was going to say was that what you're essentially arguing for is antinomianism. How do we love God (the greatest commandment which is above loving our neighbour)? Jesus says, "If you love Me, keep My commandments." Now of course there's disagreement over what is a 'commandment', which is why I'm trying to take it out of the realm of homosexuality which is controversial. But it's very difficult (theologically speaking) of arguing a position of there being no ethically standard in the life of a Christian. If you want to argue about what fits in that ethical standard, then yeah there's going to be more to discuss. And I would happily stand beside you and argue that the ethical standard for American evangelical Christianity is flawed in many, many ways. To bring it back to the topic of the thread, even within the generally accepted sexual ethic of American evangelicals there is huge hypocrisy, where homosexuality is seen as a mortal sin but no one would ever dare preach against divorce and will happily look the other way when it comes to pre-marital sex.

Also of course I'm not arguing salvation by works. As Luther said, "We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone."
You threw antinomianism at me lol... Didn't expect to see that term here.

I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm not arguing for that. Ethical standards for Christians... I would put that on the two commandments and one's relationship with Christ. Other than that, why have a standard if nothing more than just to have one? And if we are to have one, shouldn't it be modeled after Christ? Continuing down that line, if our ethical standard is Christ, then how did He handle situations with gay people?

Also as far as what is a commandment, I consider everything but the two commandments as "teachings". But I'll admit that's just my assessment.
 
Oct 27, 2017
237
The personal beliefs thing and not being defined by his church are such bullshit. It's like if I went to klan rallies, but when someone called me out on it, I said I don't personally believe minorities are inferior to whites and the klan doesn't define me. If you are willing taking part in an organization that promotes bullshit, then that shit is on you too.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,676
NZ
The personal beliefs thing and not being defined by his church are such bullshit. It's like if I went to klan rallies, but when someone called me out on it, I said I don't personally believe minorities are inferior to whites and the klan doesn't define me. If you are willing taking part in an organization that promotes bullshit, then that shit is on you too.
This, especially since the dude doesn't even keep his religion private in the first place and does talk about it in interviews. To add to your example, it's also like if you were famous and then went on TV and talked about being a Klan member.

People going 'it's personal, he's got nothing to explain' are full of shit.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,505
Dec 17, 2018
302
I am atheist, however I believe in the communion functions of the church. I think if a person goes to a church for many years, and have many friends in the church, its kind of unfair to ask him to publicly leave the church.

If I were Christ Pratt, I would do some volunteer work with the LGBT community to cancel out the karma.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,312
The personal beliefs thing and not being defined by his church are such bullshit. It's like if I went to klan rallies, but when someone called me out on it, I said I don't personally believe minorities are inferior to whites and the klan doesn't define me. If you are willing taking part in an organization that promotes bullshit, then that shit is on you too.
Yup.
 
Nov 25, 2017
4,931
Minnesota
Believing the teachings of the Bible and loving all people – including those who have different perspectives – are not mutually exclusive. In fact this is the very definition of tolerance and inclusiveness.
So the idea that homosexuality is totally natural and not immoral is not a perspective that Hillsong shares. Got it.

Brian and Bobbie Houston and in all those years Pastor Brian has been a vocal opponent of gay conversion therapy and has made it clear to our pastors that we do not support that approach.
So it's just the approach to dealing with sinful homosexuals that was wrong, and not at all the view that homosexuality is immoral. Got it.

Yeah, no. Those views are still anti-LGBTQ+, just obfuscated so that the church doesn't have to be held accountable when they get called out on it.

Religious people from the LGBTQ+ community need AFFIRMING churches to go to, not churches that obfuscate the fact that their fundamental beliefs do not support the notion that homosexuality is not a sin. If this was really about love, they would have made it patently, unmistakably clear that their church supports homosexuality and gay marriage, and do not view members of the LGBTQ+ community as people who live an immoral lifestyle in need of the 'loving', saving power of Jesus Christ to deliver them from their sinful desires. Some churches do this (they're known as affirming churches) but Hillsong is not one of them. Their response is not supportive LGBTQ+ values, it is basically an 'all lives matter' version of "we hate the sin, not the sinner", and is about as genuine as Donald Trump claiming to respect women, people of color, and gay people.

Pass.
 
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