1. El Bombastico

    El Bombastico
    Member

    The irony of this post.
     
  2. kmfdmpig

    kmfdmpig
    Member

    The alternative is that the company as a whole referred to a hero as a pedophile simply because he lived in Thailand.
    With Musk's child-like outbursts and unstable posting habits there's tons of losses either individually or as a company.
     
  3. shinra-bansho

    shinra-bansho
    Member

    Maybe the real funding secured was the friends we made along the way.
     
  4. The comment I replied to was specifically about the company, ie Tesla, outlets.
     
  5. Simon Belmont

    Simon Belmont
    Member

    That would actually be really nice if the funding was secured in our hearts the whole time!
     
  6. You can support them at Patreon
     
  7. KHarvey16

    KHarvey16
    Member

    The beauty here is that even if there is no SEC action there will almost certainly be lawsuits. And then we can see if those plaintiffs prevail, and why. If everything that Musk put in his blog is true and he still losses the lawsuits, it's clear I was wrong in my interpretation. That's straight forward. If Musk lied and he loses, we all agree there. He should lose. If he wins we'll have to evaluate why. Settlements would be the least satisfying to everyone but even then we would have the benefit of a lot of expert commentary on whatever the case looked like up to that point. I'm sure we could still draw some conclusions even then.

    Just to be clear I'm not arguing just to be contrary and I don't own a Tesla or any Tesla stock. I'm not motivated by anything other than my own opinion. I see and saw reactions here that I think are exaggerated or just wrong and too infrequently met with push-back or too frequently met with uncritical assent. One or the other by itself isn't really interesting but when both of those are true I generally engage.

    So we'll just see how it ends, ok?
     
  8. Wonderment

    Wonderment
    Moderator

    I think we've had enough back-and-forth on this side conversation of "fraud" and "manipulation". Let's get back to talking about Elon Musk's tweet and the implications of taking the company private. Thank you.
     
  9. Mackaveli

    Mackaveli
    Member

    If the meeting on July 31st happened. Why didn’t Elon discuss this when Tesla released results on August 1st during the conference call or results ? Why did he wait and tweet during market hours and especially with the stock not halted. You would think a material statement like that would cause the stock to be halted pending news etc .?
     
  10. henhowc

    henhowc
    Member

    so should i buy some stock or what? lol
     
  11. PanickyFool

    PanickyFool
    Member

    Cocaine...

    Definitely him attempting to trigger a short squeeze.

    If you were trying to go private you would never try to inflate the price before you bought it...
     
  12. Goddamn man, I can feel your pain through the monitor as I read your posts, lol.

    Thanks for your explanation, btw, you clearly know what you're talking about, your willingness to engage in spite of the necessity of breaking through a thick brick wall is immense.
     
  13. shinra-bansho

    shinra-bansho
    Member

    To clarify, are you asking us to no longer discuss whether securities fraud or market manipulation was committed at all, or just that this "belief" derail end, where someone has pulled up an irrelevant example and someone else with clear domain knowledge has been trying to correct them.

    Whether securities fraud and/or market manipulation occurred seem like a pretty relevant discussion to the tweets themselves and their content, given multiple class action lawsuits initiated, an ongoing SEC inquiry, and former SEC regulators making comments in the news? Even if one poster has created a derail.
     
  14. Absolute

    Absolute
    Member

    Thanks for the informative thread. Some of the posts have been quite illuminating on an issue I have no experience in.
     
  15. Jessie

    Jessie
    Member

    Buy some popcorn. Either way the stock swings it’ll be a clown show.
     
  16. Wonderment

    Wonderment
    Moderator

    The "fraud" and "manipulation", in quotes, refer to those subjects in the context of the back-and-forth side conversation. The mod post is not limiting the subject or the OP, but calling for that particular back and forth to come to an end. You can use the reporting system if you encounter any subsequent issues.
     
  17. shinra-bansho

    shinra-bansho
    Member

    Thanks for the clarification.
    In relation to that then:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/13/the...-tesla-deal-after-ceo-reveals-saudi-link.html

    Also lol.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...dvising-on-taking-tesla-private-idUSKBN1KY1HJ
     
  18. Night Angel

    Night Angel
    Member

    The ass covering begins far too late. Things are getting spicy.
     
  19. HStallion

    HStallion
    Member

    Acid actually
     
  20. Shao Kahn

    Shao Kahn
    Member

    Both lol
     
  21. shinra-bansho

    shinra-bansho
    Member

    Some good coverage coming from the NYT.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/13/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-saudi-arabia.html

    On Saudi Arabia.
    On the thought process or lack thereof behind the tweet disclosures. And Board knowledge.
    More through the link.

    Also in related news one of Tesla's largest institutional holders, Fidelity, quietly reduced its holdings by 20% or roughly $1 billion worth.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...d-stake-last-quarter-sec-filing-idUSKBN1KY2AI
     
  22. KeRaSh

    KeRaSh
    Member

    How is this related news if Fidelity reduced its holdings before this all went down?
     
  23. shinra-bansho

    shinra-bansho
    Member

    It's related to the broader story of Tesla supposedly going private? And the concoction wherein less capital is needed because existing owners would not sell out and follow into an illiquid private firm.

    13F disclosures don't need to be filed until I think 45 days after end of quarter. So there's no way to tell exactly what large institutions hold right now (edit: I guess you could try and piece it together from different fund monthly reports). But a 21% reduction in a quarter is sizeable.

    Even with that reduction Fidelity are still one of the largest institutional holders. So their remaining 7% or so would be important in any plan to roll into a private entity. And a large reduction in their stake in the liquid asset shouldn't provide confidence they would.

    This all under the premise that they even could.
     
  24. vastag

    vastag
    Member

    That's the same impression I was getting, the last pages of the thread have been really bizarre. The explanations given by Stooge have been great, I have learned a lot. Your posts were really informative, you have the patience of a saint.
     
  25. Widdle Puppy

    Widdle Puppy
    Member

    This seems like it's going to be a disaster and all that Saudi money too lol
     
  26. Gamechanger87

    Gamechanger87
    Member

    I work in the industry and gave up on Harvey pages ago. I swear he may actually be Elon trying to grasp for straws.

    His willingness to ignore the fact he knows nothing is absolutely amazing. The George gif is perfect.
     
  27. X1 Two

    X1 Two
    Banned Member

    They reduced because they didn't believe Tesla does have growth left in their stock. Part of that is due to having a mentally unstable CEO.
     
  28. KeRaSh

    KeRaSh
    Member

    And how exactly would that be related to privatizing Tesla, again?
    That transaction was finalized before this whole shebang even started.
    If anything you could say they missed out on a ton of money because they sold before the stock price surged.
     
  29. X1 Two

    X1 Two
    Banned Member

    If there were any talks about going private they would've included the biggest shareholders as those are the ones that need to agree to such a thing. So if they sold, chances are pretty slim that they were aware of taking the company private. It was just Musk being Musk and trying to get back at one party without really thinking about the consequences.
     
  30. KeRaSh

    KeRaSh
    Member

    Wouldn't that inevitably lead to illegal tradings based on insider information?
     
  31. X1 Two

    X1 Two
    Banned Member

    Insider trading is buying or selling (or making others buy or sell) because of insider information. Just talking about going private would be ok as long as they don't buy or sell afterwards. But in this case they sold without talking, otherwise they would not have sold.
     
  32. KeRaSh

    KeRaSh
    Member

  33. Night Angel

    Night Angel
    Member

  34. Armaros

    Armaros
    Member

  35. Stooge

    Stooge
    Member

    This is going to end very poorly for them. I mean, they may now actually take the company private, but that doesn't retroactively correct the issues with the tweets.

    Uh, that doesn't sound great for Mr. Musk. This feels like they are trying to pivot and claim that his tweet was as a potential investor in a going-private transaction and not as the CEO announcing a deal. I have no idea how you can wear those two hats without a shitload of disclosure. And now they are a week after the fact putting together a committee to evaluate a purchase offer that was made via Twitter by your CEO? A purchase offer that allows retail investors to remain shareholders in some magic world in which that is allowed?

    This is super fucking weird.

    The most plausible scenario is: Elon Musk was mad at his detractors, mad at the shorts, mad that the stock price was lower than he thought it should be. Probably had some pie in the sky plans to take it private that were not fully formed and then took to Twitter to prove his detractors wrong and "show them." Then he started talking about things he didn't understand (retail investors remaining shareholders in a private transaction) and attempting to reverse-engineer funding sources for a potential sale and the last 5 days has been some kind of Kabuki theater where the board and CEO of a publicly traded company are attempting to retroactively explain behavior that was extremely problematic away with some really odd statements that don't hold up under any form of scrutiny. And only now are they attempting to begin the process of taking the company private in order to further prove that the tweet was not a complete fabrication and/or they've hit a point where they almost need to go private.
     
  36. Pmichael

    Pmichael
    Banned Member

    So how will it fix Tesla's negative cash flow?
     
  37. Stooge

    Stooge
    Member

    Well, how does a 9 figure settlement with short positions help out with cashflow?
     
  38. Pmichael

    Pmichael
    Banned Member

    Based on various statements in Musk threads here:

    It actually does in ways a mere human can't understand.
     
  39. X1 Two

    X1 Two
    Banned Member

    It won't, but I guess loads of Elon followers will be willing to give the company $20 for every share they own every year. They would even wipe him if he asked. BTW going private should make it easier for Musk to sell off profitable parts of the company to himself and his partners while leaving old Tesla with the debt.

    Taking a company private makes sense if you expect a much higher market value down the road. Tesla wants to go private at a market cap of 71 billion. A company that has never made a profit. You know Volkswagen? They are kind of the biggest car manufacturer in the world, with yearly profits of around 15 billion. They have a market cap of 100 billion. Taking Tesla private is ridiculous.
     
  40. PanickyFool

    PanickyFool
    Member

    That did not stop him in a public company.
     
  41. Damaniel

    Damaniel
    Member

    Hmmm... so do I believe the comments of two well-reasoned posters with past experience in securities, or the poster trapped in the Elon Musk reality distortion field?

    Thank you, Stooge and Gamechanger, for your very insightful commentary about Musk and the potential fallout from his reckless tweeting - the last thing a company like Tesla needs at the moment is a shareholder lawsuit draining away what little money they still have. I'm not a huge fan of Musk and his giant ego, but I'd really like Tesla to survive since their technology is so good and quality electric cars are essential going forward if we ever hope to address issues of climate change.
     
  42. massivekettle

    massivekettle
    Member

    Re: the bold bits
    • There are specific debt covenants in place to prevent that sort of asset hive down... so as long as Tesla has debt, this is highly unlikely
    • Taking a company private makes sense... if it is cash generative (which Tesla most definitely isn't) as you will require enormous amount of debt to finance its take-private acquisition, unless Saudis just give him a blank equity cheque (again, unlikely)
    Source: work in corporate finance

    EDIT: For the record, taking TSLA private doesn't make any sense to me. The only argument for it is the lack of scrutiny from Wall Street/investors/media, but it's a weak one. Tesla has greatly benefited from being a public company.
     
  43. LiquidSword

    LiquidSword
    Member

    So Musk and Tesla are just straight up admitting there was no funding secured?
     
  44. massivekettle

    massivekettle
    Member

    Well... not "secured" in the way most (if not all) people with exposure to financial markets would understand it...
     
  45. Night Angel

    Night Angel
    Member

    Or in the way a layman would understand it. Secured, to someone who has minimal exposure to this, means obtained/guaranteed. Sounds like funding was more "mentioned" or maybe even "discussed" rather than secured.
     
  46. X1 Two

    X1 Two
    Banned Member

    Why dig even deeper if you are sitting in your hole already?
     
  47. Gamechanger87

    Gamechanger87
    Member

    Assuming he is successful (which he wont' be), I assume he will end up with publicly traded bonds and retain reporting requirements anyway. What is what makes all of this make less sense.
     
  48. Parch

    Parch
    Member

    That's going to happen with or without Tesla.
     
  49. hombremalo

    hombremalo
    Member

    Because all that energy to charge Teslas come from the sun or windmills
     
  50. cebri

    cebri
    Member

    The most stupid thing is that the stock price was already soaring when the Saudis disclosed they had reach 5% of the shares.

    Stooge Great insight. I used to work in the compliance department (in Spain) of a mutual fund and i still miss it. There are remarkable similarities between US and Spanish legislation in this matter. One question, if found guilty of MM, could he be declared unfit to serve a CEO of a public company?

    Even if all the energy came from power plants, it is so much efficient to produce it there than in the engine of a car. It would drastically decrease fosil fuel use and CO2 emissions.