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Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,165
That's a different topic and not what was discussed.
If your pure intention is to further derail the thread, do your best. I'm not going to participate any further.

The post i replied to was:

Making things right for the descendants of people who had to flee a country because of persecution or likely death irks you?

So i gaved my reasons.

Emigrating to Israel have a negative outcome for the native population living under an apartheid regime, i don't think it's off-topic.
Israel is regularly condemned by every human right association and the UN, if you decide to live there, you have a social responsability. Or should we pretend the issue dosen't exist ?
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,293
Let's remember that this thread is about emigrating to Israel and not about Israel/Palestine politics. And let's remember to drop the hostilities and not constantly attack others and insinuate that they're anti-Semitic/anti-Palestinian/etc. and so on. Thanks.
 

Deleted member 9237

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,789
At the expense of the palestinian native population. 99 % of the current jewish population in Israel have their grand-parents born elsewhere.
It's 101 settler colonialism.

But yeah, let's pretend it was an empty land for a people without a land.
Palestine also has a 'return policy' you know

edit: didn't see the mod post above
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Jan 2, 2018
400
Oh boy. Here it comes. Indeed once all Palestinians are dead or exiled from their homes, Israel will stop shelling the West Bank and Gaza, cutting their electricity and water, policing, shooting and beating their people, sabotaging their public services, demolishing their homes to occupy their land, denying them infraestructure, and desecrating their memory, their culture, and their dignity. Because there will be no Palestinians left to abuse. And Israel's history will be one of shame, because unlike other genocides this was done with plenty of precedent and in a supposedly enlightened era.
And what Israel is doing is worse than what Spain did. Because not only is Israel performing a genocide, it's trying to pass as the democracy it's not, and lying about a supposed and false comittement to peace in an increasingly unlikely two-state solution.
I have nothing against a Jewish state, but if you and many others keep supporting the policies you do, you'll find yourselves in 20, 30 years having to accept Palestinians as full citizens of your country. And I bet you wouldn't like those filthy Arabs sharing a country with you, going to the voting booths in droves.

Why do you assume all Isralies are racist and think Arabs are filthy?

Is it because Abbas said Jews have filthy feet so you project onto Israelis?

Cutting off electricity? You mean like Abbas did recently so that Gaza only has 4 hours of power a day? Beating people like the PA did recently to a poster on Quora because they said Jesus was a Jew?

Desecrating their memory and culture like how Abbas goes to the UNESCO to erase Jewish history?

Dignity? Is it dignified to be on perpetual welfare (UNRWA) and to beg the world for money while the meantime you are paying 370 Million a year to murderes and terrorist?

Israel is not performing a genocide. Don't cheapen the word. Don't lie to make your point. Kuwait kicked out 200000 Palestinians in the 90's, can you show me when Israel kicked out that many in the last 30 years? Actually I know Israel did try and kick some Palestinian out of their homes, but the UN said no. That was when Israel wanted to BUILD homes for Palestinians in GAZA so they could leave the camps but the UN passed 2 resolutions in 76 and 79 to stop this.

Israel is lying about its commitment to peace? Its the Palestinians that have rejected peace since day 1. 1937 peel comission, partion plan, 67 3 no's in Khartom, 2000 camp david, Olmert and Barak offers. Most recently Kerry and Obama framework that Abbas rejected. And just a few days ago Abbas basically said he will say no to any peace plan put forward by the US without even looking at it. Its the Palestinians that have been lying about their commitment to a 2 state solution. The Palestinians themselves said that they have no claim to WB and Gaza back in 1964 anyways so why should Israeli's be holier than the pope?
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Jan 2, 2018
400
Well, you certainly have the privilege to be persecuted, discriminated against, being the perpetrator in nearly all conspiracy theories from the right AND the left, be unanimously hated by the right and the left, be a persona non grata in several countries, yeah...

All that privilege when you have jewish ancestors, really irksome.

I mean all those blacks got the privilage of working in cotton fields back in the day! Even got free housing too! And now they are all millionaire athletes and rappers it's so irksome that there ancestors were privilaged amrite .

/s just to make sure this was a post dipping in sarcasm.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Jan 2, 2018
400
At the expense of the palestinian native population. 99 % of the current jewish population in Israel have their grand-parents born elsewhere.
It's 101 settler colonialism.

But yeah, let's pretend it was an empty land for a people without a land.

and the same can be said probably about Palestinians. Most emigrated to the land during the rise of Zionisim.

Jews have had connection to the land for thousands of years even if some people have tried to keep us from coming back. You can even trace Zionisim as far back as to 1799 if not earlier. Abbas went as far back to 17th century. Back to 1799, Napoleon was going to create a Jewish state if he won his war. That means Israel would less than 30 years older than the USA.

Or are you jumping on the Abbas train and trying to say that Palestinians are the descendants of Canaanites?
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
Why do you assume all Isralies are racist and think Arabs are filthy?

Is it because Abbas said Jews have filthy feet so you project onto Israelis?

Cutting off electricity? You mean like Abbas did recently so that Gaza only has 4 hours of power a day? Beating people like the PA did recently to a poster on Quora because they said Jesus was a Jew?

Desecrating their memory and culture like how Abbas goes to the UNESCO to erase Jewish history?

Dignity? Is it dignified to be on perpetual welfare (UNRWA) and to beg the world for money while the meantime you are paying 370 Million a year to murderes and terrorist?

Israel is not performing a genocide. Don't cheapen the word. Don't lie to make your point. Kuwait kicked out 200000 Palestinians in the 90's, can you show me when Israel kicked out that many in the last 30 years? Actually I know Israel did try and kick some Palestinian out of their homes, but the UN said no. That was when Israel wanted to BUILD homes for Palestinians in GAZA so they could leave the camps but the UN passed 2 resolutions in 76 and 79 to stop this.

Israel is lying about its commitment to peace? Its the Palestinians that have rejected peace since day 1. 1937 peel comission, partion plan, 67 3 no's in Khartom, 2000 camp david, Olmert and Barak offers. Most recently Kerry and Obama framework that Abbas rejected. And just a few days ago Abbas basically said he will say no to any peace plan put forward by the US without even looking at it. Its the Palestinians that have been lying about their commitment to a 2 state solution. The Palestinians themselves said that they have no claim to WB and Gaza back in 1964 anyways so why should Israeli's be holier than the pope?
Uhm quote your sources. A simple Google search or a consultation to the UN's or any human rights organization's reports will back up what I said, nothing will back up your fake news and whataboutism.
And it was the Israeli government who left every negotiating table, so...
I honestly don't get how you can even play the victim here and talk about the Palestinians like they are in a remotely equal footing for negotiations. The closest recent situation to theirs is the Homelands in Apartheid South Africa. The arguments used against the opressed are quite similar too.
Look, I don't blame the Israeli government, or the settlers, or the soldiers. If you can abuse a people without consequence for 70 years and be treated and seen and praised as a democracy, what is the incentive to stop? What is the incentive to give up so much land, and relocate the illegal settlers and companies back into Israel, what is the incentive to accept the single statehood and give full rights to all that cheap Palestinian labour? I know no Israeli politician will ever do such a thing, they would lose every election. So, an Apartheid like this can only get worse over time, until international sanctions come, or there is a revolution, or both.
And yes, my experience tells me there is a lot of racism and hatred and fearmongering about Arabs in Israel.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Jan 2, 2018
400
Uhm quote your sources. A simple Google search or a consultation to the UN's or any human rights organization's reports will back up what I said, nothing will back up your fake news and whataboutism.
And it was the Israeli government who left every negotiating table, so...
I honestly don't get how you can even play the victim here and talk about the Palestinians like they are in a remotely equal footing for negotiations. The closest recent situation to theirs is the Homelands in Apartheid South Africa. The arguments used against the opressed are quite similar too.
Look, I don't blame the Israeli government, or the settlers, or the soldiers. If you can abuse a people without consequence for 70 years and be treated and seen and praised as a democracy, what is the incentive to stop? What is the incentive to give up so much land, and relocate the illegal settlers and companies back into Israel, what is the incentive to accept the single statehood and give full rights to all that cheap Palestinian labour? I know no Israeli politician will ever do such a thing, they would lose every election. So, an Apartheid like this can only get worse over time, until international sanctions come, or there is a revolution, or both.
And yes, my experience tells me there is a lot of racism and hatred and fearmongering about Arabs in Israel.

Its not fake news to say that Palestinians rejected the Peel Commission, rejected the Partition plan, said the 3 no's after 67 war and walked away from camp daivd(clinton and Ross say so), Olmerts and Baraks deals (Abbas says so about Olmert offer) and from the Kerry and Obama offer(read Haaretz article about it).

Its not fake news to point out the Palestinian charter from 1964 which explicitly said there is no claim on WB and Gaza.

There will never be equal footing for negotiations, that exsisted in 1947 but that was 70 years ago. So Palestinians need to realize that they can't win the war and sit face to face and negotiate and compromise. Israel is an economic superpower(GDP crossed 40000$), military and tech one as well. Its not going to go back to suicide borders. So Palestinians have to negotiate with Israel. 70 years after wars, terror and boycotts and Israel is stronger than ever. Losers of wars don't dictate the terms, and those that keep rejected many peace offers don't get do overs time after time.

And Palestinian's that work in settlements or Israel actually get paid in general more than those that work for Palestinians.

Keep in mind Israel has already given back terrorty larger than what it has now in the Sinai, and left Gaza as well. So Israel is and has left territory for peace.

Israel has suffered from Wars of annihilation, plane hijackings, murder of atheletes, boat jackings, bombings at pizzeria's, cafes, passover sedars, stabbings, shootings, car rammings, axings, rocket fire, tunnels, kidnappings, economic boycotts, erasing of Jewish history, nazi style propaganda, politicizing of sporting events, not being able to go or fly to countries. So there is plenty of victim hood to go around. But its better for both sides to stop playing victims and sit and negotiate. If Palestinians had not been so intransigent they would of had more than they could have now but offers for peace won't get better with time so a real Palestinian leader needs to emerge that will think about the future for once and stop living in the past.

There are racist in every society, but not every Israeli racist against Arabs/Muslims.
 

TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,371
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Sorry for bumping an old thread, but i've been thinking of emigrating based on birthright and wondering what type of documentation i would need to prove my Ashkenazi heritage? My father never had his Bar Mitzvah, but his mother was Jewish. Would that be enough to qualify? And would i be able to keep my US citizenship along with an Israeli one? Thank you for the help.
 

knight714

Member
Oct 27, 2017
688
'Birthright' is such a transparently racist principle in this context, I actually don't know how people can do it and look themselves in the mirror.

If you take advantage of it you're taking advantage of a racist system that denies basic rights. For me it'd be like if a restaurant said they'd only serve white people and me thinking 'oh cool, ima eat there'
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,003
'Birthright' is such a transparently racist principle in this context, I actually don't know how people can do it and look themselves in the mirror.

If you take advantage of it you're taking advantage of a racist system that denies basic rights. For me it'd be like if a restaurant said they'd only serve white people and me thinking 'oh cool, ima eat there'
but an old book said
 

swift-darius

Member
May 10, 2018
943
since this has been bumped, I think it's prudent to point out that anyone with sephardi heritage can apply for spanish citizenship. and quality of life is pretty great here. no conscription or insane nationalism. just sayin'
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,988
since this has been bumped, I think it's prudent to point out that anyone with sephardi heritage can apply for spanish citizenship. and quality of life is pretty great here. no conscription or insane nationalism. just sayin'

I am literally doing that right now, I don't know if I'll move but I'll have the option.

I have to take a test in exactly a month, gotta study for that.
 

swift-darius

Member
May 10, 2018
943
I am literally doing that right now, I don't know if I'll move but I'll have the option.

I have to take a test in exactly a month, gotta study for that.
just the legal power of an EU passport to move, live and work across europe is tremendous. and I think the spanish passport was tied for #2 for visa free travel? but yeah, solid move
 

Juj

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
504
Sorry for bumping an old thread, but i've been thinking of emigrating based on birthright and wondering what type of documentation i would need to prove my Ashkenazi heritage? My father never had his Bar Mitzvah, but his mother was Jewish. Would that be enough to qualify? And would i be able to keep my US citizenship along with an Israeli one? Thank you for the help.

Good luck with making use of an racist law, traveling to a country built on the ethnic cleansing of another people, specifically held back from ever using what might very well be a legitimate right for their right of return.

(Jewish lineage goes through the mother as far as I know, so you should be safe. Check the birthright page or something on how to document it though.)
 

TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,371
Tulsa, Oklahoma
'Birthright' is such a transparently racist principle in this context, I actually don't know how people can do it and look themselves in the mirror.

If you take advantage of it you're taking advantage of a racist system that denies basic rights. For me it'd be like if a restaurant said they'd only serve white people and me thinking 'oh cool, ima eat there'

Good luck with making use of an racist law, traveling to a country built on the ethnic cleansing of another people, specifically held back from ever using what might very well be a legitimate right for their right of return.

(Jewish lineage goes through the mother as far as I know, so you should be safe. Check the birthright page or something on how to document it though.)
Many countries grant citizenship based on ethnicity/ancestry. How is this any different? And i don't support the current administration and what they are doing, but i would love to have a home to go if things go south in America with Trump.
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,017
Lmao leaving a country plagued with racism for a country that parades its racism around on the daily. Birthright is such sneakily racist bullshit.
 

knight714

Member
Oct 27, 2017
688
Many countries grant citizenship based on ethnicity/ancestry. How is this any different? And i don't support the current administration and what they are doing, but i would love to have a home to go if things go south in America with Trump.

If those countries also deny citizenship to people who have every right to be there, simply because they're not the 'right' race then those countries are equally racist and people supporting these systems are complicit
 

shotopunx

Member
Nov 21, 2017
1,588
Dublin, Ireland
Many countries grant citizenship based on ethnicity/ancestry. How is this any different? And i don't support the current administration and what they are doing, but i would love to have a home to go if things go south in America with Trump.


Most of the other countries that do this have been more or less the state they are for generations, not formed in the 20th century by wildly oppressing and displacing a native population. Its absolutely not comparable.
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
why're you guys even bothering? he made a thread about it last week and bumps this one too.

my guy has made his mind up
 

yarden24

Member
Oct 26, 2017
29
To all those againts this, wouldnt you want to encourage as many liberals as possible to get israeli citizenship so they could vote for a more fair goverment?
 

Deleted member 47092

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 25, 2018
379
Most of the other countries that do this have been more or less the state they are for generations, not formed in the 20th century by wildly oppressing and displacing a native population. Its absolutely not comparable.

Er... might need to brush up on 20th century history if you think Israel is unique in being established with the forceful removal of populations.
 

TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,371
Tulsa, Oklahoma
To all those againts this, wouldnt you want to encourage as many liberals as possible to get israeli citizenship so they could vote for a more fair goverment?
This is my line of thinking. Doing my part in making Israel a better country even if it is just a little bit. Anything to pull the far right Likud out of power.

Israel is a beautiful country with a complicated history. I want to be closer to my father and our ancestral lands where we once lived.
 
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Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
This is my line of thinking. Doing my part in making Israel a better country even if it is just a little bit. Anything to pull the far right Likud out of power.

but by that logic.... shouldn't you stay in amer... nevermind

I66Sbav.gif
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
To all those againts this, wouldnt you want to encourage as many liberals as possible to get israeli citizenship so they could vote for a more fair goverment?

We don't have to wait very long to see what's happening in the Israeli political landscape, there's an election in 2 weeks. If Netanyahu is returned to power, that'll answer any questions about the direction of the country.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
This is my line of thinking. Doing my part in making Israel a better country even if it is just a little bit. Anything to pull the far right Likud out of power.

Israel is a beautiful country with a complicated history. I want to be closer to my father and our ancestral lands where we once lived.

As long as you accept this has come at the expense of removing others from their ancestral homes.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,686
We don't have to wait very long to see what's happening in the Israeli political landscape, there's an election in 2 weeks. If Netanyahu is returned to power, that'll answer any questions about the direction of the country.
He has a high chance of winning unfortunately, but then again so does Trump. So I sincerely hope in either case it won't be the final word on the country's political future.
 

Deleted member 2328

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,354
Bumping into this thread is quite ironic given the increasing number of Sephardim descendants returning to Portugal and Spain, and other Israelis coming over because of the political situation.

As long as you accept this has come at the expense of removing others from their ancestral homes.
Unfortunately that's essentially History. For example Sephardi are returning to Portugal and Spain because their ancestors either had to flee or were expelled during the Inquisition. Fortunately both governments formally apologized and enacted legislation that allows descendants to apply for citizenship. There are cases of people who handed down to their descendants the keys from their homes in hope of one day to return.
This shouldn't have happened in the 21th century though, and the way the population of Israel turns a blind eye (and in some cases are happy to benefit) to their government's handling of things (specially since Netanyahu) came to power is nothing short of shameful.
 
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TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,371
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Bumping into this thread is quite ironic given the increasing number of Sephardim descendants returning to Portugal and Spain, and other Israelis coming over because of the political situation.
I'm Ashkenazi sadly, but i would love to live in Spain. My bosses daughter lived there to study and the quality of life there is fantastic. I wonder if Ashanazi can obtain citizenship in Poland,Lithuania, Ukraine ect
My family can be traced back to Lithuania in the late 1800's/ early 1900s and fled to NYC from pogroms.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,827
in Tel Aviv? never heard of them lol
Idk if it's Tel Aviv but they're in Israel somewhere.

Basically they were on an episode of Kitchen Nightmares and were such pieces of shit that Gordon walked out like 2 days in (Slayven madea thread on it recently too). Sometime afterward apparently the husband got deported due to some drug crimes so they moved to Israel.
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
To all those againts this, wouldnt you want to encourage as many liberals as possible to get israeli citizenship so they could vote for a more fair goverment?
israel is incredibly far right and has basically no real opposition to vote for. the center left as it exists now is a slightly nicer version of likud as far as palestine relations go.

liberal jewish immigrants will accomplish exactly nothing by voting in israeli elections.
 

Osan912

Avenger
Sep 22, 2018
507
Does anyone else puke in their mouth a little with the come to Tel Aviv commercials with the Instagram models and shit? Like fucking hell y'all have an apartheid state going on and you make it sound all sunny and shit.