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Emigrate to Israel [see staff post]
- Thread starter Deleted member 9838
- Start date
Well he didn't directly call anyone in the thread that, he just quite strongly implied that people here were.
That was my assumption, because I was not sure what else he would be referring to in this context. But I reckon one could argue that this was a general thought, though the combination with "people who say how awful the Jewish homeland is" really makes it sound like the statement was about this thread.
Oh boy. Here it comes. Indeed once all Palestinians are dead or exiled from their homes, Israel will stop shelling the West Bank and Gaza, cutting their electricity and water, policing, shooting and beating their people, sabotaging their public services, demolishing their homes to occupy their land, denying them infraestructure, and desecrating their memory, their culture, and their dignity. Because there will be no Palestinians left to abuse. And Israel's history will be one of shame, because unlike other genocides this was done with plenty of precedent and in a supposedly enlightened era.
And what Israel is doing is worse than what Spain did. Because not only is Israel performing a genocide, it's trying to pass as the democracy it's not, and lying about a supposed and false comittement to peace in an increasingly unlikely two-state solution.
I have nothing against a Jewish state, but if you and many others keep supporting the policies you do, you'll find yourselves in 20, 30 years having to accept Palestinians as full citizens of your country. And I bet you wouldn't like those filthy Arabs sharing a country with you, going to the voting booths in droves.
also op himself hasn't posted in this thread for hours, not sure why a few israel apologists are dead set on focusing the discussion on what they think op wants when it seems all they're doing it silencing any criticism of israel and and making it seem like politics aren't an important factor when you're deciding to move to another country to live there.
quite a vile and disgusting sentiment. i don't think once they've reach their ultimate goal of ethnically cleansing palestinians out of the region security would be a concern anymore
I mean if he is using terms like "Jewish State" it is fairly obvious that he thinks people criticizing Israel are anti-Semitic.
Aye, but that's a different issue altogether.
Frankly I think it might just be someone trolling given that language about "finished securing the Jewish state." That's just a level of not having self awareness that I'm not sure I believe is possible.
I too am curious and a little mortified by what he means by that.
In any case, I think the developments of this thread will be very valuable for OP as to gauging the kind of civil and political life he can expect in different countries.
Lol world rankings. Do they account for being cold as shit for 6 months of the year? Canada is a good place in a terrible location. There's a reason that their population never grew as fast as the USA.
Yeah, I'd say it would be really tough for someone from the west coast or most of the midwest to tolerate that kind of shift in temperature. I start to feel very cold at just 65F. At that temp my whole body will start shiver and my teeth do the "clackity" reflex thing. Canada is like 5 times colder than that, I would die.
Lol once they finish the ethnic cleansing then they'll stop. Fucking hell man
I know, I happen to be an EU citizen myself. I was simply saying that a global "all EU countries don't have those cons listed" to the poster I quoted is wrong. But thanks for the smarminess.
There's no "state religion", yes, but depending on the country, it very much permeates law and civil life in some. Shops close on Sunday in Italy, Austria, Southern Germany (possibly all of Germany), France, Hungary and are going to be doing that soon in Poland. Not sure if there's others, but I know those for sure. Also Switzerland, albeit not EU. All of those countries are absolutely a Catholic dominance, what with a majority of people being Catholic (60+%), except in Hungary where it's around 40%. And of course, Northern Germany is Protestant-dominated rather than Catholic.
There are exceptions to this both in the form of countries (e.g. Spain does not have bans on Sunday shopping iirc), and there are exceptions to those bans in the aforementioned countries as well (e.g. in Austria, shops are allowed to be open on Sundays if they are in train stations or airports, and restaurants/bars are allowed to be open every day).
Yes, most of the people in these countries are only Catholic on paper, but saying there's no Catholic dominance is wrong. There's also a fact that Catholicism has imprinted many values, opinions and approaches to yes, even law, upon the countries it is the majority religion, and is very much something that conservative and right wing parties, which are on the rise in a lot of EU countries are priding themselves in holding up high.
A country can be secular officially but still have many religious aspects to it, even if the members of the religion aren't super pieous.
I don't know what you mean by "looking remotely Jewish", since Jews in Israel are from many ethnicities so they can look very different from one another. Tel-Aviv specifically also has a large non-Jewish immigrant population, not to mention the tourists. So no, no one will look at you twice.
I can't vouch for the nightlife (not my thing), but I don't think the food is particularly special (though I've heard nothing but good things about it from tourists..). I think the only special/good point about it is the Middle Eastern food, which you can also get in other middle-eastern countries for the most part (though those might not be 'western' enough for you taste).
As for the OP, if he's still around:
- If your grandparents had their German citizenship taken at any point, you can get a German citizenship providing you have proof. That way you can go anywhere in the EU that you'd like. Note that it's a lengthy process and will take at least a year or two.
- If language is a concern, know that the fluency in English in Israel is pretty high. In Tel-Aviv it's very high, though that can be problematic - I have an immigrant friend who lived here for over ten years and didn't speak any Hebrew because he could get by with just English, but he just got a job in the south and is now suffering from his lack of Hebrew.
I said "there are countries with the same pros and none of the cons.". I'm well-aware of there being a bunch of EU countries that have those cons, and there are many EU countries I wouldn't think of moving to.
Hyperbole Lol
LA,Seattle,NYC,Miami and Las Vegas are way more interesting both in terms of culture and look.
I've never been to Tel Aviv, but I'm Jewish and am the pastiest white you'll ever see since I'm a Russian Jew. Otherwise, there's no "looking like a Jew", not even the big noses in racist caricatures.
Far as I know from the people in Israel and visitors to the country I talked to, though, everyone is welcome to visit, regardless of their religion or ethnicity. Especially Tel Aviv, which is pretty much the closest thing to a Western city you can get in the Middle East.
Also, Israeli cuisine is about the same as most other Middle Eastern cuisines, with some minor changes to make things kosher.
Ahh I didn't read it right, sorry about that.
I would argue the unfriendly people, high living costs and bad customer service are the same almost anywhere, particularly in the urban centers.
Lol I'm Spanish myself and I have lived in France, and civil life is not dominated by Catholicism I would say, Spain is one of the most secular societies in the world, and so is France.
And I mean, many shops do close on Sundays, but it's not a problem because the way people live counts on that. You go out/shopping/to a movie/to a restaurant/whatever on Saturdays and Sundays you spend with your family. And you know, at least buses and trains run on Sunday like every other day here. You can buy and eat meat during the Fridays of Lent. We don't let clerics harass women in buses and other public places. That's the sort of thing I meant by religion permeating life.
Fair enough. It still has influence on life, even in Spain, since most official state holidays also are of Christian nature, among other things. I agree that most of Europe is very secular, especially everything in the West and North. That said, plenty of countries where that is not the case. :P
been to all of them save for Vegas.
Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver are better than all if u consider ALL variables and not just night life or weather (I like winter).
Safer, cleaner, great education, great food, typically just as diverse if not more and friendly people, etc.
By region, Vancouver hands down is better than Seattle or LA.
Prefer Toronto over NYC.
Choosing to move to a country does imply some support of its government. The reason people can't be blamed for their government's actions is that they did not choose to be born there and it takes significant effort to move out of the country you are born into. But once you choose (ie are not forced by war or your parents or something) to move country this no longer applies (to an extent).
What is wrong with world rankings done by UN sanctioned bodies etc?
I like winter and having 4 seasons in Toronto. I was also born in a warm tropical country outside of Canada so I know warm weather.
Makes me appreciate certain food like chili and pho better.
Makes travelling to warmer climates also better during winter and you don't take it for granted as much.
We are happy with the relatively lower population because not everyone is fit to live here. I wouldn't want a highly densed living space.
User warned: Don't bring up politics and then try to dismiss the subject when confronted. Argue in good faith.
If there's another thread to discuss Israel's policies, I will elaborate on political issues there.
I have not seen anyone being anti-semetic in this thread, nor was I calling anyone out for being one. it is something that you deal with in other countries though, and I doubt you deal with it in Israel.
To bring this back on topic: I honestly found praise for life in Israel from my acquaintances, friends and family to be almost cult like. These are people who had great lives in Australia, and the US, but would not STFU about how great Israel is. I love beaches, and warm weather, and Israeli food, but I never wanted to visit, even for free. As I age, the level of hype has left me curious, and I might just visit one day to see what all the hubbub is about.
Edit: not sure how to respond to a warning, or if we're even able to: I did not bring politics into this thread, I responded to everyone else who did, and then I realized I was fallibg into their trap of derailing a positive thread about Israel.
I have not seen anyone being anti-semetic in this thread, nor was I calling anyone out for being one. it is something that you deal with in other countries though, and I doubt you deal with it in Israel.
To bring this back on topic: I honestly found praise for life in Israel from my acquaintances, friends and family to be almost cult like. These are people who had great lives in Australia, and the US, but would not STFU about how great Israel is. I love beaches, and warm weather, and Israeli food, but I never wanted to visit, even for free. As I age, the level of hype has left me curious, and I might just visit one day to see what all the hubbub is about.
Edit: not sure how to respond to a warning, or if we're even able to: I did not bring politics into this thread, I responded to everyone else who did, and then I realized I was fallibg into their trap of derailing a positive thread about Israel.
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Nah, just a Widdle Puppy thread. They all start out like this. Check back in a day or two for a good read...
It's hot and has sand everywhere. Sand is rough and course and gets everywhere. I hate sand. Plus, it's expensive to live there.
Calling ethnic cleansing "securing the state" is a pretty interesting way to describe what Israel is doing.
This. Don't be so caught up in your ethnic identity that you would tolerate shit like this. If you don't tolerate Trump and want to get away from that, there's plenty of more heinous shit going on in Israel.
I, white Euro guy with no Jewish roots and my GF, brown with indian roots had a great time in Tel Aviv. There weren't many stares, if there were any it's because she uses a wheelchair to get around. Everyone was mostly friendly and the stereotype of Israelis being rude or pushy didn't really play out as much as I thought.
I didn't experience the nightlife but we were there during Purim and we attended the open air concert / festivities where everyone dresses up which was.. interesting.
The food is great, but expensive. In fact, most things seemed to be expensive. Hotels, groceries, food and rents seem crazy high in the TLV area. The only thing that was cheap was public transport.
I'd still very much recommend visiting as it's unlike any other place in the world. You can really tell it's a mix of Western and Middle Eastern culture, without the oppression of women and LGBT (never seen so many dudes holding hands) people that usually plagues that part of the world.
OT: You'll have to weigh up how much you value your finances and the language barrier vs how much you value awesome weather and being Jewish in a Jewish state.
Tel Aviv definitely seems like a fascinating and cool place to live.
Do what feels right for you. Just try not to lean into the intense nationalism that's pro-Trump and supporting an ongoing apartheid.
Do what feels right for you. Just try not to lean into the intense nationalism that's pro-Trump and supporting an ongoing apartheid.
I'm not sure about weed in Israel, but if that's one of the main things I would recommend Netherlands.
On other subjects. You're going to a country where your parents or grandparents are from. You probably only know it from vacations.
Keep in mind that you will have to adopt yourself again to a different place.
Knowing about the rules about healthcare and other important stuff is important.
Do you already know what you're going to do studying or finding a job if so which job?
How will look people to you in Israel will they talk about you as the foreign guy in the beginning you have to be prepared for everything and don't immediately give up everything you have in the states.
My recommendation would also be do it if you're in a financial good situation and if something goes bad you can always go back to the usa.
On other subjects. You're going to a country where your parents or grandparents are from. You probably only know it from vacations.
Keep in mind that you will have to adopt yourself again to a different place.
Knowing about the rules about healthcare and other important stuff is important.
Do you already know what you're going to do studying or finding a job if so which job?
How will look people to you in Israel will they talk about you as the foreign guy in the beginning you have to be prepared for everything and don't immediately give up everything you have in the states.
My recommendation would also be do it if you're in a financial good situation and if something goes bad you can always go back to the usa.
Canadas not boring buddy, also a better country all around
Exactly why I responded. A very ignorant comment. I am never bored in my great city. Maybe cold half the year though...
I know a woman who grew up in New York and moved there for work (finance). She's Jewish, though I'm not exactly clear how much it matters. She likes it a lot. She's in Tel Aviv, which she said is a lot like New York. I'm not sure I could get used to the half weekends.
Much of Europe is becoming increasingly unsafe for the Jewish population due mostly to the Muslim population (and to a lesser degree, the resurgence of the far right). That's why for a Jewish person looking for a long-term destination, I think Canada, the US, and Israel are the best options.
As a Canadian, the cold is undeniably brutal, but everything else is great.
As a Canadian, the cold is undeniably brutal, but everything else is great.
Alrighty then.
Ethnostates always should provoke at least somewhat of a raised eyebrow. I have no problem with a state that is mostly Jewish, I have a problem with a state that so heavily conflates itself with an ethnicity that it might call itself a Jewish state. At the end of the day there will always be people of non majority ethnicity in any nation's borders and the state owes exactly as much to them as to the majority.
I feel very uncomfortable with many aspects of Scottish nationalism, I'm certainly going to be very critical of Israeli nationalism, and lets not forget that the Israeli state has no right to act as if it represents all Jewish people anyway.
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Every government commits atrocities. Hell, I guarantee that whichever country you reside in has their fair share of atrocities they have committed. Israel's are just on a larger scale and more reported than others.
I personally dislike Israeli treatment of Palestinians and Arabs, as well as their constant meddling into other countries and the free money they get from America for continuing to oppress others. But none of us have any ground to stand on when we say "don't move to a country that's commiting atrocities".
It's not a matter of debate, although the reasons are. For example:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-uncomfortable-truth-about-swedish-anti-semitism.14139/
Immigrating to Israel if you're Jewish is pretty easy and straightforward.
Healthcare is generally good and the insurance is mandatory and free, though there are some co-payments. Also, the healthcare system is chronically underfunded so hospitals tend to be at over-capacity, which can mean shitty hospitalization conditions. Which is also why bribery and supplemental private insurance plans are quite common there.
Weed is as plentiful as it is in the US, though generally not as good and a bit more expensive.
Other then that, Tel Aviv is an amazing city, but quite expensive. If you go by how many months of salary is required to buy a house, Israel is one of the most expensive countries in the developed world. Coming from the US, owning a car is going to be shockingly expensive to you.
As for safety, it's pretty safe, like, the thing you're worried about (terror attacks, wars) kills very few people in Israel, like, you are way more likely to die of a car accident, though it can feel a bit like shit if you're not used to that crap.
A couple of other things - how old are you? if you're under 25 you might have to do some bullshit military service.
There's a ton of fuckery from the religious establishment - most cities (including Tel Aviv) don't have public transportation on the shabbath, there's a constant effort to try and close all businesses on that day as well, you can't marry outside your religion, you can't force a divorce if the husband doesn't want to and other shit.
Politically it's a shit-show and likely to only get worse in the future.
Also, it's an apartheid state, so if that's something that bother you, you might want to consider that fact.
Healthcare is generally good and the insurance is mandatory and free, though there are some co-payments. Also, the healthcare system is chronically underfunded so hospitals tend to be at over-capacity, which can mean shitty hospitalization conditions. Which is also why bribery and supplemental private insurance plans are quite common there.
Weed is as plentiful as it is in the US, though generally not as good and a bit more expensive.
Other then that, Tel Aviv is an amazing city, but quite expensive. If you go by how many months of salary is required to buy a house, Israel is one of the most expensive countries in the developed world. Coming from the US, owning a car is going to be shockingly expensive to you.
As for safety, it's pretty safe, like, the thing you're worried about (terror attacks, wars) kills very few people in Israel, like, you are way more likely to die of a car accident, though it can feel a bit like shit if you're not used to that crap.
A couple of other things - how old are you? if you're under 25 you might have to do some bullshit military service.
There's a ton of fuckery from the religious establishment - most cities (including Tel Aviv) don't have public transportation on the shabbath, there's a constant effort to try and close all businesses on that day as well, you can't marry outside your religion, you can't force a divorce if the husband doesn't want to and other shit.
Politically it's a shit-show and likely to only get worse in the future.
Also, it's an apartheid state, so if that's something that bother you, you might want to consider that fact.
Of course understanding things like that is a matter of debate. Sure there might be a correlation, but lets not pretend what you're doing there involves interpreting data in a fundamentally discriminatory way to make a fundamentally discriminatory statement for no real reason. I mean you could have just said anti-semitism is on the rise in Europe, but no we need to throw Muslims under the bus in a small aside that you aren't really arguing much for.
Edit: You also linked to a thread without much in the way of discussion and only an op ed about one country to support your thesis here. That's a lot of generalizations and undeveloped argumentation to state this as some sort of matter-of-fact.
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When they finish gathering all of the living space they need and the Palestinians aren't an issue anymore.
Israel, specifically the actions of its government, is the ultimate irony.