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ResetGreyWolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,428
Original article in Swedish, translations are my own.
Close to 40 employees have left Dice this year, a number that is expected to increase. Among the causes is the failed launch of Star Wars Battlefront 2, as well as tough competition from new gaming companies in Stockholm.

At the start of 2018, Dice was the Swedish gaming sectors biggest employer, with over 700 employees in Sweden.

According to LinkedIn, close to 40 employees have left [Dice] this year, however sources indicate the real number is in fact higher. Additionally, a handful of employees have quit but not yet left the company.

Some of the people who have left the company have spent over 10 years at Dice [...], which has previously been known for having a very low layover rate, in particular for executive/management positions.

[...] One major reason for people leaving Dice is that new gaming companies which have begun competing for employees.

Both Epic Games [Fortnite] and Ubisoft have recently opened offices in Stockholm. [Previously established companies] King and Paradox Interactive are also growing in size. These four companies are the primary organizations who are recruiting staff from Dice. [...] At least 13 employees have left Dice to work [for Ubisoft's new studio, started by former Dice-boss Patrick Bach]. [...] Another 8 have joined Paradox Interactive [...].

Another cause for people leaving Dice is the failed launch of Star Wars Battlefront 2 last year. [... Due to massive criticism], developers had to rush a new version of the game out. "It was a debacle. For many [employees], it was very tough to have to quickly redo the game", one source says.

[Dice have grown from 699 employees to 737, however that number doesn't tell the truth]. That number includes other personnel under the Dice-umbrella, including employees working on Frostbite, the development group SEED, the Gothenburg-based studio Ghost, as well as all EA-employees based in Sweden.

Another article does add that:
Dice is nevertheless the seventh most popular employer among Swedish students and academics at the start of their career [off-topic, but in order from most popular to least on that list is: Google, IKEA, Spotify, Tesla, Microsoft, Apple, DICE, Volvo, ICA, Tetra Pak].

EDIT:

To clarify on one thing: that "700 employees" number includes everyone working on Frostbite, the development group SEED, the Gothenburg-based studio Ghost, as well as all EA-employees based in Sweden. Actual people working for "actual, core" DICE would be around 400 people, so about a 10%+ loss of employees.
 
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UnluckyKate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,552
Lots of amazing studio to work for in the same city must ease the transfer of talents. There is Avalanche growing big near.
 

cowbanana

Member
Feb 2, 2018
13,720
a Socialist Utopia
Good! It must be soul crushing to work on the stuff EA pumps out these days. I hope these people get to work on games that are built around fun and excitement - not GaaS/microtransaction/lootbox garbage.
 

Pein

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,235
NYC
Doesn't sound like BF2 being a mess is the cause, it's literally other huge game studios recruiting people.
 

Zappy

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,738
I think the numbers need historical context. What is their annual staff churn in general? Because 40 doesn't sound high to me out of 700 employees. In fact it sounds quite low.
 

foxuzamaki

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,563
We've gone years this gen with EA having the star wars license and we have gotten hardly anything except 2 failed star wars battlefront games, and one apparently single player game that we know nothing about other than the name, and the controversy that it might not even be singleplayer anymore.
Remember all the star wars games we got in the 6th gen? There was a noticeable drop in SW games during the 7th gen but we still got alot of diverse ones.

What a horrible deal disney made with EA
 
OP
OP
ResetGreyWolf

ResetGreyWolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,428
Doesn't sound like BF2 being a mess is the cause, it's literally other huge game studios recruiting people.

Both of these causes are mentioned in the title, article, and my OP.

I think the numbers need historical context. What is their annual staff churn in general? Because 40 doesn't sound high to me out of 700 employees. In fact it sounds quite low.

Historically it has had very low layover rate, as specified in the OP, and the real number is over 40. You also have to take into consideration that, as also mentioned in the OP, that 700 number includes all EA-employees in Sweden, the studio Ghost, and more. Actual people working for Dice-Dice aka "core Dice" would be closer to 400 people, so that's about a 10% loss.
 

AYF 001

Member
Oct 28, 2017
828
Good. Workers need to show that they won't tolerate absurd work schedules to meet unrealistic deadlines, and having more protections and options will move the industry towards more sustainable development cycles. If EA wants releases more often, make more studios that work on separate projects over a longer period of time.
 

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
I mean, Ubisoft set up next door with one of their old studio heads, and I imagine the idea had to be to poach the studio.

That said, going into this gen, DICE was pitched as adding Mirror's Edge and Star Wars to their line-up, and they seem to be back to only Battlefield now, so that's going to drive a lot out the door.
 

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
The industry in Sweden has grown by almost 1000% (yes, one thousand) over just a couple of years. It's pretty crazy. There's no way a company like DICE wouldn't be affected by that either way.
 

Rodjer

Self-requested ban.
Member
Jan 28, 2018
4,808
Good. Workers need to show that they won't tolerate absurd work schedules to meet unrealistic deadlines, and having more protections and options will move the industry towards more sustainable development cycles. If EA wants releases more often, make more studios that work on separate projects over a longer period of time.

That's exactly what EA is doing, they release very few games every year and they actually give time to their developers.
DICE is pretty big and they have enough manpower to work on Battlefront and Battlefield, also Battlefront 2 was developed in conjuction with EA Motive and Criterion.
And EA is making more studios and investing to create 500 new jobs in Canada and on top EA is one of the best place to work in the gaming industry.
 

LuckyLinus

Member
Jun 1, 2018
1,937
I dont think this should be taken as a proof of crunch. The people I know in Sweden working on games dont really crunch at all. There are many reasons why people change company, usually salary is high on that list, or disagreements with decisions from management.

"Development hell" is not a phrase from the article title. The original title is "dozens of employees are leaving the gaming company Dice".
 

Zappy

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,738
Both of these causes are mentioned in the title, article, and my OP.



Historically it has had very low layover rate, as specified in the OP, and the real number is over 40. You also have to take into consideration that, as also mentioned in the OP, that 700 number includes all EA-employees in Sweden, the studio Ghost, and more. Actual people working for Dice-Dice aka "core Dice" would be closer to 400 people, so that's about a 10% loss.

Which is fair enough but I still think quite speculative. Its a relatively low churn for this industry and if it is because some big studios have opened nearby its very low in the overall context of things.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,821
Lots of amazing studio to work for in the same city must ease the transfer of talents. There is Avalanche growing big near.

Yea it is really awesome that more and more companies are opening offices here. It's fantastic to see people from our office, Avalanche, Paradox, having lunch together because many know eachother. And our offices are like 10 meters away.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Good EA doesn't deserve the best of the best.

Why? Glassdoor reviews are fairly positive, with many citing good pay and good working dynamics.

Both of these causes are mentioned in the title, article, and my OP.
.

The articles stress that the major reason is poaching, with the Battlefront issues being secondary. Your title makes it seem the other way round.

Good! It must be soul crushing to work on the stuff EA pumps out these days. I hope these people get to work on games that are built around fun and excitement - not GaaS/microtransaction/lootbox garbage.

We just had a dev tweet about enjoying making Football Manager.
Do you have any stats to back up your claims that it's 'soul crushing' to work on FIFA or Battlefront?

Also, The article says King is growing. They make mobile F2P games with TONS of MTX (Candy Crush etc). How are they growing if it's 'soul crushing'?
 

Paertan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,393
I work in Stockholm. Not as a game developer but with software engineers. We are seeing game developers becoming regular software developers. The pay is better as a regular software developer and there is way less overtime. I don't think it is as bad in Swedish game companies as we see in other countries due to our strict laws concerning overtime and such. But it can be quite stressful even if you don't work overtime.
 

Deleted member 2321

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
40 people leaving in a company of this size seems completely normal to me.

There is always some fluctuation.
 
OP
OP
ResetGreyWolf

ResetGreyWolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,428
The articles stress that the major reason is poaching, with the Battlefront issues being secondary. Your title makes it seem the other way round.

What? How so? I literally wrote them in the same order as the lead paragraph:
Nära 40 medarbetare har i år lämnat spelbolaget Dice. Siffran väntas stiga, enligt flera av Di Digitals källor. Bland orsakerna finns en misslyckad lansering av "Star Wars Battlefront II" och konkurrens från nya spelutvecklare i Stockholm.

Furthermore, the article does not at all stress that the major reason is poaching, it does not highlight either of the causes as being more major than the other.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
Seems about right for a project winding down. It feels like they only have 2 people working on BF2 content anyway.
 

Rogue_Espada

Banned
Oct 16, 2018
41
Let's just hope battlefield 5 gets better reviews and sales than battlefront 2. EA totally mismanaged all their studios this gen
 

El-Suave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,831
When you work hard on a game that theoretically is at a high quality level and it not only ends up not being loved but even hated on by parts the audience, it must be really frustrating and crushing.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Think about if BioWare got sacked after Anthem doesn't deliver long-term... and DICE gets sacked because its skeleton crew and a bunch of contractors fail to live up to quality sometime soon. I mean, what's EA gonna do after such a situation?
Let's just hope battlefield 5 gets better reviews and sales than battlefront 2. EA totally mismanaged all their studios this gen
Honestly relevant:


Patrick Söderlund got sacked (or he simply left). Time to go off, Andrew.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
Good if these people can find a better place to work at. I guess this could mean it's over for Battlefront and I'm alright with that personally. Didn't really like it. Wonder what it means for Battlefield.
 

Rodjer

Self-requested ban.
Member
Jan 28, 2018
4,808
Think about if BioWare got sacked after Anthem doesn't deliver long-term... and DICE gets sacked because its skeleton crew and a bunch of contractors fail to live up to quality sometime soon. I mean, what's EA gonna do after such a situation?

Do you seriously think EA is going to kill 2 AAA studios with over 1200+ employees? Come on.
 

TheRaidenPT

Editor-in-Chief, Hyped Pixels
Verified
Jun 11, 2018
5,949
Lisbon, Portugal
It's not really surprising to be honest,pdf of the original DICE team is already gone because of the path the studio went after Battlefield 3.

But for me Bioware situation is really sad.. Anthem most likely won't deliver and with the next games being Dragon Age & Mass Effect I feel that we will never get a good game from DICE ever again
 

potatohead

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,889
Earthbound
Why? Glassdoor reviews are fairly positive, with many citing good pay and good working dynamics.



The articles stress that the major reason is poaching, with the Battlefront issues being secondary. Your title makes it seem the other way round.



We just had a dev tweet about enjoying making Football Manager.
Do you have any stats to back up your claims that it's 'soul crushing' to work on FIFA or Battlefront?

Also, The article says King is growing. They make mobile F2P games with TONS of MTX (Candy Crush etc). How are they growing if it's 'soul crushing'?
Good post
 

MadMod

Member
Dec 4, 2017
2,744
Tbh I'd be slightly ashamed to have worked on BF2 even if I had nothing to do with the practices. It was a largely embarrassing moment in gaming history. But it seems like its just new studios opening up, clearly offering incentives to move onto their studios.
 

EthanKart

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
228
Tbh I'd be slightly ashamed to have worked on BF2 even if I had nothing to do with the practices. It was a largely embarrassing moment in gaming history. But it seems like its just new studios opening up, clearly offering incentives to move onto their studios.

The game is a technical marvel. You can tell there are some very talented people at DICE. Let's see your portfolio.
 

Spacejaws

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,819
Scotland
Who's to bet that the employee's took the brunt for a lot of Battlefront 2 critisim. When higher ups get stressed with ineptitude that frustration tends to trickle downwards. I wonder if that frustration was started to get pushed onto the developers whereas the direction to make the game a bloody Star Wars themed loot box game rather than a game with loot
boxes is the real problem.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,981
That said, going into this gen, DICE was pitched as adding Mirror's Edge and Star Wars to their line-up, and they seem to be back to only Battlefield now, so that's going to drive a lot out the door.
That's interesting, I wonder did Battlefront 2 kill it or EA don't expect to keep the license so aren't greenlighting a 3rd.