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Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,202
You talked about how quickly this was going to be adopted. I'm giving you reasons why comparing it to Netflix, which people do ad nauseum, isn't a good comparison. So if there are technical reasons why the tech could be held back, they aren't worth mentioning? If these reasons make people not adopt it at the rate (you give 3 to 5 years, which I find absurd) that you're projecting, they aren't worth mentioning? Live streaming of real world events/gaming is always going to be more problematic with the speed of light limiting data transmission. There are going to be ways around it and with stuff like 5G I'm sure it will become less of an issue. But to completely discount it without even bothering to explain why is pretty lazy.

I am not convinced you really understand the tech you are trying to debate. Major progress in compression standardization was made recently (hevc compared to h.264). That enables faster real time compression at lower data rates for comparable quality. Streaming video took off in an h.264 era and streaming games will take off in an HEVC era. You tried to argue the length of the content mattered which it doesn't at all in compression so I think you are arguing out of your depth and then getting huffy when people don't want to debate down at that level.
 

MXT

Banned
May 13, 2019
646
Actually it is. Netflix indeed uses compression algorithms that gaming streams cannot, because they can predict what pixels are where at what time and can compress it accordingly. This cannot be done with game streaming as the content is based on user input. To say that it's the same as 4k content is disingenuous. Not to mention you say it cannot be addressed and you indeed addressed it!

No. That is not how Netflix's compression works, and that is not something that anyone does or would want to do and it is not even a thing that is off the table with a game stream. You are just stringing words together to create a sentence where all the words are in the right place, but the actual thing you are saying reads like a scene from 24 where the characters are saying Computer Words.

H264/5/HVEC do not rely on 'predicting where pixels will be at a specific time'.
 

Iceman83

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
379
United States
Google: Trying to make games accessible to as many people as possible

Microsoft: Trying to make games accessible to as many people as possible

Sony: Trying to sell consoles

Fanboys: Sony blah blah blah, winning blah blah blah

It's pretty clear Sony is actually the behind in all this despite selling the most consoles. MS and Google are trying to get their games on as many devices as possible while you're pretty much locked to Sony's machine.
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
I don't know If it's public. I'll look into it.

Second generation PS Now would have to be demoed. The current PS Now product is not competitive, it is not a next gen streaming product with impressive hacks to address input latency, with 4K support, with a business model that allows a consumer to buy a game for $60 and play it with no subscription required.

So is Xcloud also not a next gen streaming product? There is no current business model for it and it isn't 4K.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,543
Netflix is a secondary outlet. Movies and TV are broadcast/shown in theaters first. Netflix replaces DVDs, not first run movies. Xcloud and stadia are talking about replacing the whole piece from day one. Thats where the value prop breaks down.

Where do you get your catalog content? Someone has to buy that $60 game for the publisher to make their money, and then put it on streaming 6 months later for incremental revenue. If everything goes streaming then where is that upfront revenue? Without that you start to develop solely for the (likely lower) income stream from streaming, which to me sounds like a mobile-style race to the bottom in terms of cost, with GaaS style stickiness, microtransactions, moving things from the core game to paid for DLC to try and monetise further.

Netflix blew up when they expanded their streaming service, not their DVD service. People are subscribing to Netflix for the convenience and the low price for a library of content.

Where the Netflix model falls apart is they have no way to monetize a user other than the subscription which is why we continue to see the price go up. All of these new game streaming services, other than PSNow, are looking to offer games either for sale or as possibly part of a premium service like Stadia Pro or Game Pass which means the "traditional" ownership and sale of a game will still exist.

xCloud isn't replacing your console in he way Stadia is. xCloud is an extension of your console/PC, you can play where you want. The only obvious caveat is you have to purchase digitally to get access to that service.
 
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MXT

Banned
May 13, 2019
646
Netflix blew up when they expanded their streaming service, not their DVD service. People are subscribing to Netflix for the convenience and the low price for a library of content.

Where the Netflix model falls apart is they have no way to monetize a user other than the subscription which is why we continue to see the price go up. All of these new game streaming services, other than PSNow, are looking to offer games either for sale or as possibly part of a premium service like Stadia Pro or Game Pass.

xCloud isn't replacing your console in he way Stadia is. xCloud is an extension of your console/PC, you can play where you want. The only obvious caveat is you have to purchase digitally to get access to that service.

It is important to note that while xCloud V1 is not replacing your console, but MS has been fairly clear about what their plan is - this investment isn't about building a way for consumers to access games out of their home.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Google: Trying to make games accessible to as many people as possible

Microsoft: Trying to make games accessible to as many people as possible

Sony: Trying to sell consoles

Fanboys: Sony blah blah blah, winning blah blah blah

It's pretty clear Sony is actually the behind in all this despite selling the most consoles. MS and Google are trying to get their games on as many devices as possible while you're pretty much locked to Sony's machine.

It's clear Sony is behind while they have the only live product in this space of the companies you mentioned.

Also, if you think only allowing games to be streamed the way Google is arguing for, is making games as accessible to as many people as possible, you are sorely mistaken. Microsoft is a different story, since they offer physical games on their platform, this is additional service, not the only one.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Google: Trying to make games accessible to as many people as possible

Microsoft: Trying to make games accessible to as many people as possible

Sony: Trying to sell consoles

Fanboys: Sony blah blah blah, winning blah blah blah

It's pretty clear Sony is actually the behind in all this despite selling the most consoles. MS and Google are trying to get their games on as many devices as possible while you're pretty much locked to Sony's machine.
This is nonsense dude. Sony has been doing streaming well before anyone even announced an interest in it. There is no reason to discount them yet.

I have no horse in this race, but people have been naysaying and predicting the downfall of Sony and PlayStation forever, and yet seemingly it's proven wrong time and time again.

With their partnering with Microsoft Azure it's clear that they are thinking ahead about the ways in which they will need to improve their own streaming platform.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,513
Google: Trying to make games accessible to as many people as possible

Microsoft: Trying to make games accessible to as many people as possible

Sony: Trying to sell consoles

Fanboys: Sony blah blah blah, winning blah blah blah

It's pretty clear Sony is actually the behind in all this despite selling the most consoles. MS and Google are trying to get their games on as many devices as possible while you're pretty much locked to Sony's machine.

I'll link the Jim Ryan interview again: https://www.ft.com/content/87f6a3e6-86b2-11e9-a028-86cea8523dc2

"We obviously have seen the trend in other forms of entertainment towards the mass adoption of streaming as a means of accessing content," said Mr Ryan, who took over as the head of Sony's PlayStation and games publishing business in February. "It would seem likely, very likely, that gaming will follow that trend."

"We are getting more confident with the [PlayStation Now] service and we are really going to start to push it hard this year and in years to follow," he said."

Ironic, because some people here were concerned that Jim as CEO would doom Playstation.
 

thebishop

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,758
It's clear Sony is behind while they have the only live product in this space of the companies you mentioned.

Also, if you think only allowing games to be streamed the way Google is arguing for, is making games as accessible to as many people as possible, you are sorely mistaken. Microsoft is a different story, since they offer physical games on their platform, this is additional service, not the only one.

Yeah, the total dismissal of PS Now has been really weird. I don't see how it can be denied that Sony are trailblazers in streaming. Not only did they buy Gaikai for PS Now, but they had local remote play AT LAUNCH on the PS3 (albeit limited by game support). PS4 launched with remote play as a system-wide feature. PS4 even lets you share a virtual controller with friends who can stream from your console. They're currently the industry leader on game streaming.

Probably Google and MS's tech/infrastructure are much better than PS Now. I'm not pretending Now is a close-to-native experience. But Sony has at least until November to improve. We don't know anything about their plans except for the deal with MS/Azure. But it can't be argued that they aren't a player in this space.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
Oh, yes, I remember this. "Xbox is poised to dominate the next console generation."

Now we have:

"Xbox is riding high"

"Sony can't compete at this tier"

The Switch will pass the Xbox One in lifetime sales this year and Generation 8 will end with Microsoft's console in third place, but of course, she doesn't even mention Nintendo.

This is some fine fan fiction and honestly sounds like an advertisement.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
They talk about the download sizes and updates, but they somehow fail to mention the massive amounts of data that will be used for video streaming. Streaming games will use more data than one time download ever will
When they talk about download sizes and updates, my impression is that the point they're attempting to make is that with streaming you can start a game fast. If today you decide you want to buy a brand new AAA game, you are typically waiting on a large download. A decent connection will still struggle to download it - in fact, a decent connection might end up getting bottlenecked by the servers anyway. On a good day I see 10 megabytes per second from PSN, for example. A 100GB game (and next generation, that kind of size could be typical) would take almost 3 hours to download at typical PSN speeds and still almost an hour to download if I wasn't bottlenecked and could use my full connection speed.

So streaming would beat that - the stream would start in minutes or seconds and data usage of the stream would stay below data usage for the download for quite a while (how long would depend entirely on the bitrate of the stream).

As someone who has had PSNow for awhile Sony biggest addition has been adding downloads. They haven't improved streaming quality or experience so that's why saying they will improve it is hard to accept.
This is not my experience. Obviously people are going to have varying levels of service, but the first time I used PlayStation Now for streaming (about a year ago) it was a bit of a mess - it kind of worked, but lag made it inferior to the point where for any kind of reaction-based game it was almost unpleasant, and quite inferior to local play.

I subscribed to it when it was reduced to €70, largely because of the downloads. I tried streaming again, thought it had improved a bit (especially with 60FPS games) but wasn't good enough to be really worth using often, and stuck to downloads.

I've tried again over the past few weeks and it's been significantly better, to the point where on some games, if someone did a blind test and asked me whether a game was streaming or running locally, I'd probably have wrongly guessed locally on at least a few occasions.

So for me there does appear to have been improvements, though one of the downsides of this kind of service is that everyone has an anecdotally different experience.

People really seem to forget that game-streaming has entirely different problems than movie-streaming.

Even if the bandwith isn't the problem with gaming there can't ever be a single second of downtime for streaming to work as intended. Movies buffer the next vew seconds/minutes so that even if the connection is down for a few seconds here and there the user isn't even aware of this.

With gaming this is not possible. Every single image has to be rendered in the cloud and has to travel to the consumer as fast as possible. There's no technology that can help with that. The hardware can never predict to 100% what you're going to do in the game and therefore the service can't buffer anything.

This technology sounds good on paper but is completely different to movie-streaming.

Maybe someday when the isps can guarantee a 99.9% perfect minimum speed but until then this whole thing is nothing more than new tech dragged out into the wild before it's ready.
Sure, there can't be a second of downtime. But people are playing through and beating games on streaming services today. So those game-breaking fractions of a second of downtime - well, good news, they're not happening very often.

If streaming takes off in a big way, I think what you will see is companies leaving Stadia/Xbox/PSNow left and right to pursue their own services.
Yep.

However I think that when this happens, what you'll see after that is those same companies struggling to attract people to their own services, failing, and moving back to Sony and Microsoft as aggregation services. Like, if there's a Sony service, a Microsoft service, an EA service, an Ubisoft service, a Nintendo service and a Square Enix service, are you subscribing to all of them? If you do, are you then interested in a Warner service? A Bethesda service?

Some of them might succeed, but in the end I think the services run by platform holders are going to be the safe harbour services for companies that can't compete - and I expect that to be the majority of them.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,513
Oh, yes, I remember this. "Xbox is poised to dominate the next console generation."

Now we have:

"Xbox is riding high"

"Sony can't compete at this tier"

The Switch will pass the Xbox One in lifetime sales this year and Generation 8 will end with Microsoft's console in third place, but of course, she doesn't even mention Nintendo.

This is some fine fan fiction and honestly sounds like an advertisement.

Don't you know that everyone will abandon Zelda/Pokemon/Mario to play Halo on mobile?
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Oh, yes, I remember this. "Xbox is poised to dominate the next console generation."

Now we have:

"Xbox is riding high"

"Sony can't compete at this tier"

The Switch will pass the Xbox One in lifetime sales this year and Generation 8 will end with Microsoft's console in third place, but of course, she doesn't even mention Nintendo.

This is some fine fan fiction and honestly sounds like an advertisement.
Nintendo isn't ready for a online future so why bring it up? Have you seen how Nintendo is handling their online. Consoles sold won't mean anything in the future. It will all be about subscriptions.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,513
Nintendo isn't ready for a online future so why bring it up? Have you seen how Nintendo is handling their online. Consoles sold won't mean anything in the future. It will all be about subscriptions.

It won't mean anything to MS, I'm sure Nintendo would be happy with their $60 sales of 2014 remasters.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
Nintendo isn't ready for a online future so why bring it up? Have you seen how Nintendo is handling their online. Consoles sold won't mean anything in the future. It will all be about subscriptions.

I don't believe this for a second, sorry.

This is the "smartphones will kill consoles forever" argument, all over again.
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
What happens to a product like Nintendo Switch when gamers can run a game like Halo Infinite on their tablet or phone "eventually" without any major issues? It's clearly heading toward that...

Once that happens, it will be free to play games that drive premium gaming. You might have some sub services, but the culturally relevant games will be fornite or gtao -the need to buy gtaV.

The biggest market consists of people who don't buy consoles/gaming pcs and wont buy $60+ games, and if companies are trying to tap into that market, they will need to get rid of entrance fees.

Persoanlly, i see it as bad for game design when designers cannot make game that require no in game monetisation in order to feed their families. And no, $10 per month game pass will not replace the income from premium upfront game purchases.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,202
No. That is not how Netflix's compression works, and that is not something that anyone does or would want to do and it is not even a thing that is off the table with a game stream. You are just stringing words together to create a sentence where all the words are in the right place, but the actual thing you are saying reads like a scene from 24 where the characters are saying Computer Words.

H264/5/HVEC do not rely on 'predicting where pixels will be at a specific time'.

Weird that he stopped replying to us. 🤣🤣🤣
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
If you mean by financial point of view, then for a small company like Sony, Nintendo, the Netflix model doesn't work, however for a company like Google, Amazon and Microsoft, it can work for them as they have patience and resources to eventually get a profit 10 years down the time.
I don't see subscription models leading to high quality content, especially not when it comes to single player, narrative experiences.
I'd argue that we are already seeing the issue with Microsofts recent output, but its hard to say whether there is a causal relation here.
Still, I think that subscription models will have a negative effect on the quality of the software output.
 
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bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
Yeah, all of this is wrong. As we've already gone over, 25mbps isn't a huge barrier. The 'care about quality' bit is nonsense as well. I don't know what NPD study you are referring to, but it sounds to me like they asked the wrong questions I'd they didn't arrive at the same place that others did.
Someone posted a Wikipedia link earlier about the average internet speed per country. 25 mbps is a massive problem. And that does not even take things like data caps into consideration.

And regarding quality, nobody who cares about quality will touch a streaming service with a ten foot pole. Running games natively on your hardware at home will always be superior.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I don't believe this for a second, sorry.

This is the "smartphones will kill consoles forever" argument, all over again.
Smartphones having console quality games must have always been a thing I guess? Oh wait it hasn't. Animal Crossing pocket camp is absolute trash. But if New Lesf was on there or even the new one? You would get it on there, you know you would.

Fortnite and PubG mobile do well also. If Microsoft/Google or Sony with Microsoft's help offer subs to mobile users they will make Bank.
 

MXT

Banned
May 13, 2019
646
Someone posted a Wikipedia link earlier about the average internet speed per country. 25 mbps is a massive problem. And that does not even take things like data caps into consideration.

And regarding quality, nobody who cares about quality will touch a streaming service with a ten foot pole. Running games natively on your hardware at home will always be superior.

I am not going to keep repeating the same things endlessly. I have addressed the first part multiple times: Not every product has to address every consumer. The addressable audience of streaming services is larger than the entire console market.

The guys that care deeply about quality lose. They always lose. You don't see 4K Blu-ray taking the world by storm. You see Blu-ray itself hanging on for dear life. Shouting 'quality!!' didn't stop the MP3 from killing the CD either.
 
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Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,202
Someone posted a Wikipedia link earlier about the average internet speed per country. 25 mbps is a massive problem. And that does not even take things like data caps into consideration.

And regarding quality, nobody who cares about quality will touch a streaming service with a ten foot pole. Running games natively on your hardware at home will always be superior.

Running blurays is superior too. They are still dying
 

Violet

Alt account
Banned
Feb 7, 2019
3,263
dc
5 years ago it was obvious that Microsoft was moving towards a streaming future and away from traditional boxes. Depending on how this generation goes (because shit they really doubled down on the boxes this year) I think that could finally come to fruition.

Not really interested in the debate about whether Native vs Cloud gaming is better, but Microsoft is definitely pushing the latter. The one thing I do think is interesting is whether this is like....... the gaming equivalent of "pivot to video." A bunch of people misinterpret the market for something and it has irreversible negative effects on the industry.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
Why do people insist on pitting MS against even more people they will lose to?

It feels like MS' everyone favourite punching bag.
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
I don't see prescription models leading to high quality content, especially not when it comes to single player, narrative experiences.
I'd argue that we are already seeing the issue with Microsofts recent output, but its hard to say whether there is a causal relation here.
Still, I think that prescription models will have a negative effect on the quality of the software output.

Especially when it comes to companies like microsoft and google that demand very high margins.

Smartphones having console quality games must have always been a thing I guess? Oh wait it hasn't. Animal Crossing pocket camp is absolute trash. But if New Lesf was on there or even the new one? You would get it on there, you know you would.

Fortnite and PubG mobile do well also. If Microsoft/Google or Sony with Microsoft's help offer subs to mobile users they will make Bank.

Yes, because mobile users will suddenly become the type of consumer willing to pay for a sub and buy $60 games. /s

If you look at game makers on mobile, those who try to make a non f2p game find it almost impossible to get an audience. And those that do, are selling to traditional premium gamers that rarely play on phones.

Having an audience that is willing to pay upfront for a game is vital for good game design. People willing to do that are almost always willing to drop a few hundred for local hardware as well.

The size of the the market that is willing to spend money upfront on games, but not buy a pc/xb/ps/switch is very small. An all streaming future will see the marginalisation of premium gaming.
 

Sampson

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
1,196
Especially when it comes to companies like microsoft and google that demand very high margins.



Yes, because mobile users will suddenly become the type of consumer willing to pay for a sub and buy $60 games. /s

If you look at game makers on mobile, those who try to make a non f2p game find it almost impossible to get an audience. And those that do, are selling to traditional premium gamers that rarely play on phones.

Having an audience that is willing to pay upfront for a game is vital for good game design. People willing to do that are almost always willing to drop a few hundred for local hardware as well.

The size of the the market that is willing to spend money upfront on games, but not buy a pc/xb/ps/switch is very small. An all streaming future will see the marginalisation of premium gaming.

In the video market, subscription services have actually driven higher quality output. Look at HBO vs broadcast television. EA has invested in things like unravel just to give EA access more variety.

The last 10 years have seen the obliteration of AA games. You have Indies, and major publishers swinging for a billion in sales and micro transactions, nothing in-between anymore. Sub services could bring back the quality AA game.

F2p will always appeal to the lowest common denominator, and always be the most popular, like America's got talent, or all that other crap. But enough people willing to pay for a premium sub are out there and could actually push gaming to new heights.
 

Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,059
Sure but PSNow is offering at most 720p while we know and heard already that Stadia looks quite good in comparison and from E3 impressions the image quality of xCloud also impressed some people.



Do they actually do that?



Of course streaming will never be the same, it cannot and enthusiast gamers who are in technical details know about it. This applies to image quality and lag. Average Joe might be fine with it, though, Sony already has people who use PSNow although their offering leaves a lot to improve.
Which is why I say the burden of proof is on them
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
Smartphones having console quality games must have always been a thing I guess? Oh wait it hasn't. Animal Crossing pocket camp is absolute trash. But if New Lesf was on there or even the new one? You would get it on there, you know you would.

Fortnite and PubG mobile do well also. If Microsoft/Google or Sony with Microsoft's help offer subs to mobile users they will make Bank.

Smartphones aren't going to kill consoles, even if they can stream games.

There is always going to be a market for local gaming.
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
xCloud V1 is not a next-gen streaming product. The business model of it has not been announced.

xCloud V2 is a next-gen streaming product.

Ah so you've invented a V2 for Xcloud to exempt MS from your criticisms of PSNow. And as it stands there isn't a current V1. At least Google has done a public beta.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,543
Ah so you've invented a V2 for Xcloud to exempt MS from your criticisms of PSNow. And as it stands there isn't a current V1. At least Google has done a public beta.

The version that they demoed to the public at E3 is version 1, it's codenamed Anthem. It is running using Xbox One S hardware in server racks. This is the version that will be tested publicly in October.

Version 2, I can't remember the rumored codename, will be built on the Scarlett hardware and replacing the V1 hardware since it will be 100% BC.
 

Loxley

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,612
I feel like I'm constantly being gaslit into believing MS are planning to exit the console space and embrace streaming 100%.

Like, even though Phil Spencer has repeatedly said that consoles will play a huge role in Xbox's future, even going so far as to openly talk about wanting to have the most powerful console going into the next gen, folks just continue to ignore him and perpetuate this bullshit idea that MS is going to exit the console space and focus entirely on GamePass + xCloud because it's "clearly what they care about".

Real talk, I get that some folks not-so-secretly want MS to leave the console space so Sony and Nintendo can have everything to themselves, but you're living in a dream world. All evidence points to MS remaining in the console space for the foreseeable future. It's possible for them to have a physical Xbox and embrace streaming across multiple platforms at the same time. MS just seems to be embracing where technology is heading and wants the Xbox brand to mean more than just a physical console.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
And yet they were the first of the major console manufacturers or publishers to come to streaming.
And yet they have the least compelling service. They really don't have an incentive to do what MS is doing (releasing first party day and date on the service) because they are the leader. To not give the option seems short-sighted, though.
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
The version that they demoed to the public at E3 is version 1, it's codenamed Anthem. It is running using Xbox One S hardware in server racks. This is the version that will be tested publicly in October.

Version 2, I can't remember the rumored codename, will be built on the Scarlett hardware and replacing the V1 hardware since it will be 100% BC.

And this would be different from Sony how? The same is speculated for PSNow being updated with PS5 racks. All PSNow criticisms are valid but I don't give credit for what ifs for MS and Google. Their projects are just plans at the moment.
 

thebishop

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,758
5 years ago it was obvious that Microsoft was moving towards a streaming future and away from traditional boxes. Depending on how this generation goes (because shit they really doubled down on the boxes this year) I think that could finally come to fruition.

Not really interested in the debate about whether Native vs Cloud gaming is better, but Microsoft is definitely pushing the latter. The one thing I do think is interesting is whether this is like....... the gaming equivalent of "pivot to video." A bunch of people misinterpret the market for something and it has irreversible negative effects on the industry.

After this E3, i'm not so sure. Maybe MS is pushing toward the cloud but they're further behind than we thought? In the run up to E3, Giantbomb was saying it's a no-brainer that Halo Infinite would launch this year, and people with pre-Scorpio Xboxes could stream it in the highest quality. Not to make too much of a random prediction, but comparing that expectation to what MS actually showed was a big let down.

Now I suspect XCloud will launch more as an add-on feature to Scarlett than a service ready to go head-to-head with Stadia this year (and early 2020). That's certainly not fatal, plenty of people probably *prefer* it. But to me it does suggest MS isn't as far along as they'd like to be.
 

MXT

Banned
May 13, 2019
646
After this E3, i'm not so sure. Maybe MS is pushing toward the cloud but they're further behind than we thought? In the run up to E3, Giantbomb was saying it's a no-brainer that Halo Infinite would launch this year, and people with pre-Scorpio Xboxes could stream it in the highest quality. Not to make too much of a random prediction, but comparing that expectation to what MS actually showed was a big let down.

Now I suspect XCloud will launch more as an add-on feature to Scarlett than a service ready to go head-to-head with Stadia this year (and early 2020). That's certainly not fatal, plenty of people probably *prefer* it. But to me it does suggest MS isn't as far along as they'd like to be.

Giant Bomb folks are clearly really poorly sourced.

Don't take away much from what was shown and what wasn't shown at MS's press conference. MS optimizes for showing games at E3. It is how they avoid criticism. What was shown at the press conference and what was demoed on the show floor are different things. And, no, xCloud V1- what launches this year - was never intended to go head to head with Stadia. That fight will begin in earnest when the next generation begins.

You can expect to see more of xCloud at Gamescom.
 

BlockABoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,548
On one side you have Google which feels like their selling snake oil and are regarding it as the 2nd coming and then on the other we have when Phil Spencer talks about XCloud, he is very candid and says that its no comparison to having a physical unit under the TV but its 'good enough' for when your away from home to play your games on the go!!

Unless Googles tech is so far pass what Microsoft it able to achieve (unlikely) then im siding with Uncle Phil on this one!!

This is going to be like OnLive all over again, a company promising the earth and then when is actually in the home environment its not all its cracked up to be!

So i dont think MS is fighting Google in this regard as MS knows what cloud gaming is capable of at this precise time where Google seem to not!
 

MXT

Banned
May 13, 2019
646
On one side you have Google which feels like their selling snake oil and are regarding it as the 2nd coming and then on the other we have when Phil Spencer talks about XCloud he is very candid and says that its no comparison to having a physical unit under the TV but its 'good enough' for when your away from home to play your games on the go!!

Unless Googles tech is so far pass what Microsoft it able to achieve (unlikely) then im siding with Uncle Phil on this one!!

This is going to be like OnLive all over again, a company promising the earth and then when is actually in the home environment its not all its cracked up to be!

Google has demoed Stadia numerous times, including one months long public trial. Stadia works. Phil is just better at public relations & is speaking about xCloud V1, which is a distinctly different product from Stadia and xCloud V2.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,543
And this would be different from Sony how? The same is speculated for PSNow being updated with PS5 racks. All PSNow criticisms are valid but I don't give credit for what ifs for MS and Google. Their projects are just plans at the moment.

Google and MS both have their own datacenters spread across the world that they're adding this hardware to. That's not something Sony would ever be able to compete with hence them working with Microsoft to look at Azure as a solution for their service. We know as of May, MS had rolled hardware out to 13 of their 54 regions with a focus on putting that hardware near game developers so they can test it now.

I wouldn't consider xCloud or Stadia as just plans at this point. They've both been used publicly, Stadia more widely than xCloud but xCloud is getting a public test in October. The biggest difference is in the content that both Google and Microsoft will be offering since they will be launching new games on their services rather than tying streaming strictly to a specific games catalog of old games like Sony has so far with PSNow.