Ensign Kim (Star Trek: Voyager) may be the most useless character of any long running TV series

Slayven

You probably post about me on another board.
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Oct 25, 2017
33,814
Yeah this guy:


If I recall correctly the writing staff on Voyager should have known he was a charlatan, as he had been repeatedly exposed since the 80s.
I think they started receiving complaints at some point so they toned down the references to that part of the character later in the series, it was a big embarrassment at the time, considering Star Trek has always tried to project a progressive image.
Damn dude straight up jacked a culture
 

weemadarthur

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Oct 25, 2017
2,999
He did make a good foil to Tom "Best Trek" Paris though.

But yes total loser
Did I know you like Paris? Because this is not good.
I don't remember that but even then that's completely BS reasoning. IIRC the Enterprise had three commanders at one point
Doctors don’t count, they can barely be trusted to run the Bridge at night.....you know. Night. In space. Because that’s sensible.
I never stood how that worked? Like wouldn't paramount own the character?
The Writers’ Guild has very particular rules.
I don’t know what they are in detail. But they exist, for credits, and getting paid, and stuff.
 

BuddyDharma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,418
Damn dude straight up jacked a culture
That Hank Adam's quote, too.

This man was the Golden Indian … he made gold, he made money. It's about stolen voices … he blocked millions of dollars in funding to real Indian writers. We ended his federal funding and TV contracts, but he's still an Indian author, he sold more books than Vine Deloria, his work is still taught in schools and universities to Native and non-Native students. He died an Indian, his lawyer handles his estate and all its Indian royalties. At least this ends it for sure … it finishes his career as an Indian and an Indian expert. He's Jack Marks…not Jamake Highwater.

Remember that. He's Jack Marks … not Jamake Highwater. There never was a Jamake Highwater.[1]
The grift outlived his death.
 

Slayven

You probably post about me on another board.
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Oct 25, 2017
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Belenna is underrated. When they weren't making her angry for no good reason she showed a lot of growth.
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,692
Yoooooo that makes so much sense, the stuff he would say sounds like some hippy nonsense.

And his relationship with Seven? dear god why?
IIRC, the whole Chakotay/Seven romance was the result of Beltran making some unreasonable demands in an attempt to get fired and the people in charge just deciding to to along with them.
 

Yagyujubei

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Oct 25, 2017
1,157
in hell
He was eye candy for me. Not a good character but there were hardy any cute Asian guys on Star Trek and most tv shows at the time.
 

Slayven

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Oct 25, 2017
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IIRC, the whole Chakotay/Seven romance was the result of Beltran making some unreasonable demands in an attempt to get fired and the people in charge just deciding to to along with them.
LOL, it shows. I can't really think of a moment they had anything more than a passing interaction before that mess. Seven and the Doc had such a great chemistry.
 

DrForester

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Oct 25, 2017
5,357
IIRC, the whole Chakotay/Seven romance was the result of Beltran making some unreasonable demands in an attempt to get fired and the people in charge just deciding to to along with them.
I have a hard time believing Beltran's demands were unreasonable. They did nothing with his character. I dont blame him for being angry about it.

Go through all those auditions. Get the role as first officer. Then nothing. Compare Chakotay to any other first officer on Trek and his anger is understandable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Saru has gone through more as a character in two seasons of Disco (which equals one season of voyager) than Chakotay did in 7 seasons
 

Agent Unknown

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Oct 26, 2017
1,415
Agreed Harry was just a pathetic, useless loser.

Also, if you want a good anti-Harry, reverse example of an auxiliary male characte on a sci-fi Show going from kinda mediocre to progressively more awesome as the show went on on please see Zack from Babylon 5. Guy goes from being little more than Garibaldi’s security sidekick offering a few quips now and then to
helping stop a fascist takeover of the station by pulling a daring bait ‘n switch on the bad guys,
eventually gets promoted to security chief over Garibaldi (and ends up being way better and more competent at the job too), briefly dates
Lyta the telepath and offers her encouragement when nobody else will
and then in the series finale gives one of most amazing, and tear jerking speeches of all time.

Apparently the showrunners were going to get rid of him for this very reason (and they were adding Seven of Nine and felt the show didn't have room for an additional character without getting rid of one) but then he was featured in... People's?... sexiest people alive issue and they reversed the decision and booted Kes (Jennifer Lien) off the show instead.
You have got to be kidding me. Just when I think I’ve seen it all when it comes to examples of Berman, Braga and their ilk being awful and incompetent.

It's weird to realize that I think that Enterprise had a better cast overall than Voyager.

Edit: Also it's harder to like Janeway now thanks to her apparently being a huge asshole to Jeri Ryan.
Yup, my respect for Kate Mulgrew went waaaaay down after I found out about that. Just makes Janeway seem even more unlikeable and bland. Also it’s really irritating that Jeri Ryan and Seven got dogged for being “just added for sex appeal” when the show’s storylines and conflicts actually got better thanks to Seven of Nine. If it weren’t for Seven, the Doctor and Tuvok the show wouldn’t be worth watching.
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,791
Agreed Harry was just a pathetic, useless loser.

Also, if you want a good anti-Harry, reverse example of an auxiliary male characte on a sci-fi Show going from kinda mediocre to progressively more awesome as the show went on on please see Zack from Babylon 5. Guy goes from being little more than Garibaldi’s security sidekick offering a few quips now and then to
helping stop a fascist takeover of the station by pulling a daring bait ‘n switch on the bad guys,
eventually gets promoted to security chief over Garibaldi (and ends up being way better and more competent at the job too), briefly dates
Lyta the telepath and offers her encouragement when nobody else will
and then in the series finale gives one of most amazing, and tear jerking speeches of all time.



You have got to be kidding me. Just when I think I’ve seen it all when it comes to examples of Berman, Braga and their ilk being awful and incompetent.



Yup, my respect for Kate Mulgrew went waaaaay down after I found out about that. Just makes Janeway seem even more unlikeable and bland. Also it’s really irritating that Jeri Ryan and Seven got dogged for being “just added for sex appeal” when the show’s storylines and conflicts actually got better thanks to Seven of Nine. If it weren’t for Seven, the Doctor and Tuvok the show wouldn’t be worth watching.
She was the first female captain. And then the showrunners go and put Seven of Nine on her show. I'd be upset too. It was Mulgrews show and it was clear why she was there.
 

Meowster

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Oct 28, 2017
3,712
Missouri

If I recall correctly Kate was not easy to work with, and had a lot of pull. I think Kim was shafted.
She wasn’t happy that her show, which she was the captain, was completely going against what she wanted for her show. There were a lot of people that didn’t think a female Captain could be successful without the “sexy” elements that was all over television at the time and all kinds of horrible sexist statements. Halfway through the show, she is put on the sidelines for a young and beautiful model that wears a skintight catsuit that is also dating the producer of the show.

It was unprofessional of her to have been public about those feelings with the cast and it wasn’t Jeri Ryan’s fault at all (Seven actually ended up being the most interesting character on the show, imho, and Ryan was a good actress to boot). But you can kind of see where Kate Mulgrew was coming from. I think Chakotay’s actor wasn’t happy with Jeri Ryan either (but he wasn’t happy about anything). They all seem on good levels now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,554
Having an Asian male character then proceeding to emasculate him every chance they got was one of the many shitty things about Voyager.
 
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Calles

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Nov 1, 2017
3,556
This is the first time I've heard that the guy was constantly stoned. What I'd heard was that he clashed with Berman and Braga early on, and the latter decided his character would never be promoted or advanced in any way.
I only heard about it five or so years ago myself. It was at a con he was hosting that I was told by another person why his role in show was as weak as it was. Why he never did an director job while the others had etc.
 

Roy

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Oct 27, 2017
2,434
He didn’t bother me, the green, nervous rookie who followed all the regulations. And then he grew beyond that in some episodes 🙂
 

Cheerilee

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Oct 25, 2017
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Joseph Carey.

He was demoted from his position as Chief Engineer because Janeway wanted to make her one and only concession to her new terrorist Yes Man First Officer, and promoted Chakotay's Engineer over her own. Even though B'Elanna Torres had just demonstrated her "teamwork" skills by breaking Carey's nose and nearly killing him. Remember kids, if you want to get noticed at work, simply assault your superior officer!

And then, after seven years of diligently doing his duty without complaint, Carey was tragically murdered. And when Future Janeway decided to rewrite the timeline because too many of her friends got killed the first time around, the time she picked for her destination was one week after Carey's death. Janeway never gave a damn if the guy lived or died.


Honorable mention: The rest of the Maquis on Voyager.

They got dragged along, and there was an episode about how Janeway successfully integrated them into her crew like one happy family.

A couple of years later, one of them was seen scrubbing plasma conduits, ostensibly the worst job on the ship, unsuitable for even holograms. Yeah, that's the kind of life that waits for you when you march under Janeway's flag. She'll make a big show about how great and valued you are, before assigning you to scrub the toilets when everyone's attention turns away.
 
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Sephzilla

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Joseph Carey.

He was demoted from his position as Chief Engineer because Janeway wanted to make her one and only concession to her new terrorist Yes Man First Officer, and promoted Chakotay's Engineer over her own. Even though B'Elanna Torres had just demonstrated her "teamwork" skills by breaking Carey's nose and nearly killing him. Remember kids, if you want to get noticed at work, simply assault your superior officer!

And then, after seven years of diligently doing his duty without complaint, Carey was tragically murdered. And when Future Janeway decided to rewrite the timeline because too many of her friends got killed the first time around, the time she picked for her destination was one week after Carey's death. Janeway never gave a damn if the guy lived or died.
Fuck
 

Kmonk

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Oct 30, 2017
1,386
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Can they age badly if they were never fresh to begin with?

The Chakotay background episode was litterally "giant white space aliens gave the savages culture".

Co-opting Native cultures, but editing out the use of hallucinogens. That shit was so incredibly corny.


She was the first female captain. And then the showrunners go and put Seven of Nine on her show. I'd be upset too. It was Mulgrews show and it was clear why she was there.

I don't think Seven ever diminished Janeway's role- in fact they had a lot of great scenes together where Janeway acted as mentor.

Janeway was like the opposite of sex appeal. Remember the episode where she and Chakotay are considering having sex on an isolated planet? I'm still cringing.
 

Kmonk

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Oct 30, 2017
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Janeway is the worst Captain by a long shot, I do quite like Archer though.

God, Enterprise is so underrated. Season 3, where they faced off against the Xindi species, is still of of my favorite things from TV, ever.

And it ends with Archer running down the hall to escape an explosion, ultimately getting blasted into the past to fight Alien Nazis!
 
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Sephzilla

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God, Enterprise is so underrated. Season 3, where they faced off against the Xindi species, is still of of my favorite things from TV, ever.

And it ends with Archer running down the hall to escape an explosion, ultimately getting blasted into the past to fight Alien Nazis!
Seasons 3 and 4 of Enterprise are legit