Ensign Kim (Star Trek: Voyager) may be the most useless character of any long running TV series

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,475
Harry Kim is so pathetically worthless that he straight up dies at one point, gets replaced with a duplicate of himself, and nobody cares enough to ever mention it again.
Why should they bring it up? He was the exact same person. The same thing happened to Miles O'brien, but people don't keep bringing it up as a negative point against his character.
 

KojiKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
Torpedoes are easy to believe they bought/traded with cultures along the way... the more confusing one is the crew count which changed quite regularly. Down makes sense, the crew count going up on the other hand....
 

eot

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Oct 26, 2017
1,573

Beren

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Oct 25, 2017
1,438
Forget the torpedoes - it's the two irreplaceable Federation space shuttles that are the hilarious one. They blew up so many of those suckers I just assumed they had a wizard onboard to make more. They specifically said they couldn't replicate them.
 

DrForester

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,357
She was fine in the episode "Warlord" (not as Kes).


He dared the writers to write in a kiss between him and 7of9, that's documented for example in "Star Trek: The Human Frontier". Him pushing for his character to have a romance is more of a rumor, but he's reported to be super complainy about his role so I buy it
There's quite a leap between "do something with my character" and wanting to do somethign specific because he wanted to kiss Jeri Ryan.
 

hikarutilmitt

Member
Dec 16, 2017
2,559
Forget the torpedoes - it's the two irreplaceable Federation space shuttles that are the hilarious one. They blew up so many of those suckers I just assumed they had a wizard onboard to make more. They specifically said they couldn't replicate them.
IIRC that was one of the reasons they built the Delta Flyer. It was made to be rebuilt easily while also functioning as more than just a general shuttlecraft. It's not that they couldn't really replicate them it's that it was a strain on resources to make new ones. That and, I mean, when most of their time in the Delta Quadrant was spent going back towards Earth, there wasn't a ton of time to take out craft for exploration anyway.

For the record, I do love Voyager despite its faults. It is very much, however, a glass cannon narratively where some of its highs are very, very high and some of its lows are incredibly, terribly low. I'm also one of the crazies that ranks its finale at the same level as TNG's, possibly even slightly higher in entertainment, but slightly lower on thematic value.
 

Beren

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Oct 25, 2017
1,438
IIRC that was one of the reasons they built the Delta Flyer. It was made to be rebuilt easily while also functioning as more than just a general shuttlecraft. It's not that they couldn't really replicate them it's that it was a strain on resources to make new ones. That and, I mean, when most of their time in the Delta Quadrant was spent going back towards Earth, there wasn't a ton of time to take out craft for exploration anyway.

For the record, I do love Voyager despite its faults. It is very much, however, a glass cannon narratively where some of its highs are very, very high and some of its lows are incredibly, terribly low. I'm also one of the crazies that ranks its finale at the same level as TNG's, possibly even slightly higher in entertainment, but slightly lower on thematic value.
I haven't seen the pilot in a long time, but I'm pretty sure they said they couldn't make more, period, and not just couldn't replicate them. I could be wrong, but I remember the conversation going that way. And yes, that was why the Delta Flyer was made, but they still blew those standard ones up after its creation and they always had more as a backup...
 

hikarutilmitt

Member
Dec 16, 2017
2,559
I haven't seen the pilot in a long time, but I'm pretty sure they said they couldn't make more, period, and not just couldn't replicate them. I could be wrong, but I remember the conversation going that way. And yes, that was why the Delta Flyer was made, but they still blew those standard ones up after its creation and they always had more as a backup...
I think we might be going too deep into this, especialyl give the occasional inconsistent writing, but:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Voyager#Embarked_craft

So they clearly have more than just the two and Chakotay even mentions them a few times, apparently, but them rebuilding them when needed doesn't seem to be too out of the question. And I have far more things to pick at than this. :D
 

Beren

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Oct 25, 2017
1,438
I think we might be going too deep into this, especialyl give the occasional inconsistent writing, but:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Voyager#Embarked_craft

So they clearly have more than just the two and Chakotay even mentions them a few times, apparently, but them rebuilding them when needed doesn't seem to be too out of the question. And I have far more things to pick at than this. :D
The dialogue I'm looking for is at the end of the pilot, which I can't watch right now. I thought there it was said that they only have two?
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,751
I honestly don't remember half of the characters from Voyager. There's Neelix, Tuvok, 7 of 9, Janeway, the Doctor, and then there's the "wait, gotta check google and confirm if I know this guy" squad.
 

HueyFreeman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,850
I'd argue Chakotay was even more useless. He was basically Janeway's yes-man for 7 seasons.
Interestingly, Robert Beltran agrees with you - has multiple times stated his frustration that the writers never provided Chakotay any growth after the initial two seasons... just literally settled out into a bland boring background character. Too bad too, because he had a lot of potential.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,212
I found Tom Paris bland as hell for the most part but at least he seemingly had some growth.

He did have a lot of weird infatuations though.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,831
Joseph Carey.

He was demoted from his position as Chief Engineer because Janeway wanted to make her one and only concession to her new terrorist Yes Man First Officer, and promoted Chakotay's Engineer over her own. Even though B'Elanna Torres had just demonstrated her "teamwork" skills by breaking Carey's nose and nearly killing him. Remember kids, if you want to get noticed at work, simply assault your superior officer!

And then, after seven years of diligently doing his duty without complaint, Carey was tragically murdered. And when Future Janeway decided to rewrite the timeline because too many of her friends got killed the first time around, the time she picked for her destination was one week after Carey's death. Janeway never gave a damn if the guy lived or died.


Honorable mention: The rest of the Maquis on Voyager.

They got dragged along, and there was an episode about how Janeway successfully integrated them into her crew like one happy family.

A couple of years later, one of them was seen scrubbing plasma conduits, ostensibly the worst job on the ship, unsuitable for even holograms. Yeah, that's the kind of life that waits for you when you march under Janeway's flag. She'll make a big show about how great and valued you are, before assigning you to scrub the toilets when everyone's attention turns away.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,415
Also want to say every so often I come across a Voyager episode on the Heroes and Icons channel’s ST block and it always amazes me how terrible the show can be in a “Wow, I actually watched this every week?!” kinda way. One episode I watched recently was the one where Tuvok mentors/commands some Maquis crew members and entire episode is the Maquis whining like babies about how mean and strict Tuvok is (which he basically is to an almost hilariously sadistic degree at one point making one of them do the ST equivalent of cleaning the transporter deck with a toothbrush). The whole time I’m thinking, “Man, THIS is what was playing in the ‘90s when DS9 had Sisko, Worf, Quark, Garak, Odo and all kinds of war intrigue with the Dominion, Babylon 5 is rocking the Vorlon/Shadow War AND Earth civil war while balancing tons of intricate character arcs and meantime we have “insert dull character conundrum/tedious space errand” of the week on Voyager. How did I make time for this boring trash back in the day??” The only way I can make sense of it is that I was in high school at the time before I had a job and plenty of time to kill.

She was the first female captain. And then the showrunners go and put Seven of Nine on her show. I'd be upset too. It was Mulgrews show and it was clear why she was there.
Yeah, I can understand why she’d be upset but A) Janeway is still a terrible, stale character B) Mulgrew was still petty towards Ryan and C) Regardless of the actual motive for adding Seven, her character’s storylines still (arguably) improved the show.
 
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Beren

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,438
Or anything from the 20th century. Dude was working on restoring a car in a garage on the holodeck. That and he got Kim and then a few others to take part in Captain Proton adventures.
Lol I remember the Captain Proton stuff. Came out of nowhere in season 5 and then it's his greatest love for the rest of the show.

I honestly don't remember half of the characters from Voyager. There's Neelix, Tuvok, 7 of 9, Janeway, the Doctor, and then there's the "wait, gotta check google and confirm if I know this guy" squad.
I think that's more than half of everyone, actually. And you remembered the ones worth remembering plus Neelix, anyways.
 

Mugsy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
654
Joseph Carey.

He was demoted from his position as Chief Engineer because Janeway wanted to make her one and only concession to her new terrorist Yes Man First Officer, and promoted Chakotay's Engineer over her own. Even though B'Elanna Torres had just demonstrated her "teamwork" skills by breaking Carey's nose and nearly killing him. Remember kids, if you want to get noticed at work, simply assault your superior officer!

And then, after seven years of diligently doing his duty without complaint, Carey was tragically murdered. And when Future Janeway decided to rewrite the timeline because too many of her friends got killed the first time around, the time she picked for her destination was one week after Carey's death. Janeway never gave a damn if the guy lived or died.
If I remember correctly they also had Carey hitting on a time traveling 7 of 9 despite being married with kids. I think the writers just forgot who he was and his backstory so they just killed him.
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,692
If I remember correctly they also had Carey hitting on a time traveling 7 of 9 despite being married with kids. I think the writers just forgot who he was and his backstory so they just killed him.
It's worse than that. Apparently at some point they had him to only appear in time-travel/flashback episodes because they thought they killed him seasons ago. Then, when they realized that they didn't, they finally decided to show him in the present day again...just to kill him.
 

Phil me in

Member
Nov 22, 2018
527
You’ll notice how Harry Kim is always complaining.

I had this friend who was always moaning. Me and another thread would call him Kim or tell him to stop kimming whenever he was moaning.

So jeri got the job because she was with the producer?
 

Avengers23

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,517


This is Ensign Harry Kim of the USS Voyager. And he is the most useless character of all time.

Kim has basically no memorable personality traits to him what so ever and most of his notable story moments revolve around him failing in some capacity, whether it's having the worst luck in the galaxy with women...



...Or causing the destruction of Voyager itself...



He can't even properly fix his own mistake without needing someone else to suggest the actual idea that saves lives.

Harry Kim is so pathetically worthless that he straight up dies at one point, gets replaced with a duplicate of himself, and nobody cares enough to ever mention it again.

This dude is on the show from episode 1 until the very end of the series and never gets promoted. Tom Paris, his best friend over the course of the series, starts off in fucking Starfleet Jail, gets reinstated, gets demoted, and then gets promoted above Kim's rank all over the same period of time while Kim does jack squat. B'Elanna Torres starts off the show as an enemy of Starfleet and instantly outranks Kim by the time she puts on a proper Starfleet uniform. By the time Voyager ultimately returns to the Alpha Quadrant, Kim technically needs to address the bus boy from Quark's Bar as "sir".

Kim is the most worthless character I've ever seen in a TV show. I welcome you to talk about anyone else you think is this level of useless to their show.
He fuck up even this simple chicken order.
 

PinballRJ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
420
Pretty bad when the Doctor is the most likeable character on the show, despite being programmed to be a complete asshole.
 

fuchsdh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,885
I still think Kes was way, way worse. Her useless whispering everywhere on the ship bothered me to no end.
Kes served a useful role insofar as she was the major catalyst of the Doctor's development early on. Ironically once they brought Seven along and she became the new "learning to be human" character on the show Kes absolutely served her role and was the best one to be dumped, and the Doctor and Janeway filled her role.

Harry got occasional good episodes but for the most part he just was hapless too often. If there had been better writing around other aspects of his character the "the guy falls head over heels with every impossible woman he meets" running beat would have actually been fun instead of depressing cherry on top of the underserved character. But really he's just an example of the show writ large—occasional great spurts often undermined by stretches of just the laziest, uninspired hacky lows.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
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Oct 25, 2017
14,751
I'm getting the sense that the Tom Paris experience is dramatically different depending on whether or not you're attracted to Robert Duncan McNeill.
 

Speevy

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Oct 26, 2017
7,059
The Voyager crew is hard to love, but I love Star Trek in general, so I got through it.
 

BossAttack

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Oct 27, 2017
15,831
He's a charming attractive character who had a fun bad boy streak and solid comedic relief. His affinity for the holodeck made for some great holodeck episodes.
LOL.

Paris is a wimp.

Only Tuvok and Seven of Nine were interesting on Voyager. Oh, and Ensign Suder for the few episodes he was in. B'Elanna became interesting for like two seconds when Ronald Moore briefly worked on the show, then she went back to being a onenote angry lady. Everyone else was wasted space.