Why should they bring it up? He was the exact same person. The same thing happened to Miles O'brien, but people don't keep bringing it up as a negative point against his character.
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Ensign Kim (Star Trek: Voyager) may be the most useless character of any long running TV series
- Thread starter Sephzilla
- Start date
Why should they bring it up? He was the exact same person. The same thing happened to Miles O'brien, but people don't keep bringing it up as a negative point against his character.
Chakotay is the worst, also because his role is more important than Kim's. The actor is also a creep who forced the romance with 7of9 because he wanted it irl
She was fine in the episode "Warlord" (not as Kes).
He dared the writers to write in a kiss between him and 7of9, that's documented for example in "Star Trek: The Human Frontier". Him pushing for his character to have a romance is more of a rumor, but he's reported to be super complainy about his role so I buy it
Forget the torpedoes - it's the two irreplaceable Federation space shuttles that are the hilarious one. They blew up so many of those suckers I just assumed they had a wizard onboard to make more. They specifically said they couldn't replicate them.
Didn't we have a thread about this guy before? Maybe it was from the old site. But yeah he sucks.
There's quite a leap between "do something with my character" and wanting to do somethign specific because he wanted to kiss Jeri Ryan.
IIRC that was one of the reasons they built the Delta Flyer. It was made to be rebuilt easily while also functioning as more than just a general shuttlecraft. It's not that they couldn't really replicate them it's that it was a strain on resources to make new ones. That and, I mean, when most of their time in the Delta Quadrant was spent going back towards Earth, there wasn't a ton of time to take out craft for exploration anyway.
For the record, I do love Voyager despite its faults. It is very much, however, a glass cannon narratively where some of its highs are very, very high and some of its lows are incredibly, terribly low. I'm also one of the crazies that ranks its finale at the same level as TNG's, possibly even slightly higher in entertainment, but slightly lower on thematic value.
I haven't seen the pilot in a long time, but I'm pretty sure they said they couldn't make more, period, and not just couldn't replicate them. I could be wrong, but I remember the conversation going that way. And yes, that was why the Delta Flyer was made, but they still blew those standard ones up after its creation and they always had more as a backup...
I think we might be going too deep into this, especialyl give the occasional inconsistent writing, but:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Voyager#Embarked_craft
So they clearly have more than just the two and Chakotay even mentions them a few times, apparently, but them rebuilding them when needed doesn't seem to be too out of the question. And I have far more things to pick at than this. :D
The dialogue I'm looking for is at the end of the pilot, which I can't watch right now. I thought there it was said that they only have two?
Interestingly, Robert Beltran agrees with you - has multiple times stated his frustration that the writers never provided Chakotay any growth after the initial two seasons... just literally settled out into a bland boring background character. Too bad too, because he had a lot of potential.
Torres is on the fence. I kind of remember she exists but I forget that she's in Voyager.
Tom Paris might be the worst for me, because the only reason I remember his name is that someone mentioned it, I googled to see who it was, and I still don't remember the fucking guy.
Or anything from the 20th century. Dude was working on restoring a car in a garage on the holodeck. That and he got Kim and then a few others to take part in Captain Proton adventures.
I found Tom Paris bland as hell for the most part but at least he seemingly had some growth.
He did have a lot of weird infatuations though.
He did have a lot of weird infatuations though.
Or the time he got a classmate killed when he was in the Academy.
Also want to say every so often I come across a Voyager episode on the Heroes and Icons channel's ST block and it always amazes me how terrible the show can be in a "Wow, I actually watched this every week?!" kinda way. One episode I watched recently was the one where Tuvok mentors/commands some Maquis crew members and entire episode is the Maquis whining like babies about how mean and strict Tuvok is (which he basically is to an almost hilariously sadistic degree at one point making one of them do the ST equivalent of cleaning the transporter deck with a toothbrush). The whole time I'm thinking, "Man, THIS is what was playing in the '90s when DS9 had Sisko, Worf, Quark, Garak, Odo and all kinds of war intrigue with the Dominion, Babylon 5 is rocking the Vorlon/Shadow War AND Earth civil war while balancing tons of intricate character arcs and meantime we have "insert dull character conundrum/tedious space errand" of the week on Voyager. How did I make time for this boring trash back in the day??" The only way I can make sense of it is that I was in high school at the time before I had a job and plenty of time to kill.
Yeah, I can understand why she'd be upset but A) Janeway is still a terrible, stale character B) Mulgrew was still petty towards Ryan and C) Regardless of the actual motive for adding Seven, her character's storylines still (arguably) improved the show.
Yeah, I can understand why she'd be upset but A) Janeway is still a terrible, stale character B) Mulgrew was still petty towards Ryan and C) Regardless of the actual motive for adding Seven, her character's storylines still (arguably) improved the show.
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Lol I remember the Captain Proton stuff. Came out of nowhere in season 5 and then it's his greatest love for the rest of the show.
I think that's more than half of everyone, actually. And you remembered the ones worth remembering plus Neelix, anyways.
If I remember correctly they also had Carey hitting on a time traveling 7 of 9 despite being married with kids. I think the writers just forgot who he was and his backstory so they just killed him.
It's worse than that. Apparently at some point they had him to only appear in time-travel/flashback episodes because they thought they killed him seasons ago. Then, when they realized that they didn't, they finally decided to show him in the present day again...just to kill him.
okay, but can you at least give me an explanation of why i should have remembered tom paris after you kick my ass
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You'll notice how Harry Kim is always complaining.
I had this friend who was always moaning. Me and another thread would call him Kim or tell him to stop kimming whenever he was moaning.
So jeri got the job because she was with the producer?
I had this friend who was always moaning. Me and another thread would call him Kim or tell him to stop kimming whenever he was moaning.
So jeri got the job because she was with the producer?
He fuck up even this simple chicken order.
This is Ensign Harry Kim of the USS Voyager. And he is the most useless character of all time.
Kim has basically no memorable personality traits to him what so ever and most of his notable story moments revolve around him failing in some capacity, whether it's having the worst luck in the galaxy with women...
...Or causing the destruction of Voyager itself...
He can't even properly fix his own mistake without needing someone else to suggest the actual idea that saves lives.
Harry Kim is so pathetically worthless that he straight up dies at one point, gets replaced with a duplicate of himself, and nobody cares enough to ever mention it again.
This dude is on the show from episode 1 until the very end of the series and never gets promoted. Tom Paris, his best friend over the course of the series, starts off in fucking Starfleet Jail, gets reinstated, gets demoted, and then gets promoted above Kim's rank all over the same period of time while Kim does jack squat. B'Elanna Torres starts off the show as an enemy of Starfleet and instantly outranks Kim by the time she puts on a proper Starfleet uniform. By the time Voyager ultimately returns to the Alpha Quadrant, Kim technically needs to address the bus boy from Quark's Bar as "sir".
Kim is the most worthless character I've ever seen in a TV show. I welcome you to talk about anyone else you think is this level of useless to their show.
He's a charming attractive character who had a fun bad boy streak and solid comedic relief. His affinity for the holodeck made for some great holodeck episodes.
Kes served a useful role insofar as she was the major catalyst of the Doctor's development early on. Ironically once they brought Seven along and she became the new "learning to be human" character on the show Kes absolutely served her role and was the best one to be dumped, and the Doctor and Janeway filled her role.
Harry got occasional good episodes but for the most part he just was hapless too often. If there had been better writing around other aspects of his character the "the guy falls head over heels with every impossible woman he meets" running beat would have actually been fun instead of depressing cherry on top of the underserved character. But really he's just an example of the show writ large—occasional great spurts often undermined by stretches of just the laziest, uninspired hacky lows.
it just seems like they had no idea what to do with this dude from day one
His best bad boy streak was fake though. Also he wasn't good at charm. I can see where we vary, here.
He was a a good man who thought he had to be a bad boy.... and he's absolutely charming. Fantastic smile to boot.
I haven't watched the show in years but Paris is the only character that sticks out in my mind as likeable.
Yeah that's true he's not from an alternative universe or anything
LOL.
Paris is a wimp.
Only Tuvok and Seven of Nine were interesting on Voyager. Oh, and Ensign Suder for the few episodes he was in. B'Elanna became interesting for like two seconds when Ronald Moore briefly worked on the show, then she went back to being a onenote angry lady. Everyone else was wasted space.