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Epic’s Statement on Misinformation & Abuse [See Staff Post] [UP: Devs release statement]

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Greywaren

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
9,905
Spain
I think the whole EGS debate has snowballed for way too long and it's become really, really dangerous. The Ooblets situation is proof of it.

I've been kind of against the whole "purchasing exclusives" thing for a while, but this is inexcusable. Nothing can justify this kind of behavior, and I sometimes feel like I'm on the wrong side of the argument because of people like these.

I hope the Ooblets devs have a very successful launch and they can enjoy sharing their work with the world. I'm sorry they had to face the human trash they've had to face.
 
Ryo Hazuki

Ryo Hazuki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,474
Mobyduck said:
The Ooblets' devs released a new statement.

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Great write up. Sadly looking at the responses even to that tweet there are plenty of people who are like "it sucks you got death threats but..."

Also imagine commenting this on the article:

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It's quite disturbing what they've had to endure and no doubt will continue to endure.
 
Minky

Minky

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
481
UK
BronsonLee said:
That blog is must read.

Those screencaps are disgusting.
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Yeah this shit makes me queasy, all it took was one screenshot and I'm already in a rage.
Makes me wonder why I, or anyone else, should have even bothered with this industry in the first place. I honestly can't tell if the sorts of wretched people making those vile comments are in the minority or the majority anymore... The Ooblets team didn't have to make a game at all, let alone share it with the community; why would anyone in their position ever want to pursue this sort of creative venture ever again?
 
eonden

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
Ryo Hazuki said:
Great write up. Sadly looking at the responses even to that tweet there are plenty of people who are like "it sucks you got death threats but..."

Also imagine commenting this on the article:

V5MCj2T.png


It's quite disturbing what they've had to endure and no doubt will continue to endure.
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Guy playing both ways:

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closer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,165
Reckheim said:
it truly is; even in Epic threads on era I feel like I am in bizzaro world where I have no idea if half the people are being genuine or just trolling.
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I got banned for this earlier in the week, but (I'm not generalizing about pc players at large) "pc master race" really ended up being an unfortunate thing imo, tho we should have known from the name
 
voOsh

voOsh

Member
Apr 5, 2018
1,665
Holy fuck those screen caps of the threats are crazy. Some people seriously have issues. I am a huge anti-EGS advocate and dream to see EGS fail but taking it beyond civilized research, debate, and discussion is wrong. Those people should be ashamed of themselves.
 
manchego obfuscator

manchego obfuscator

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,123
Brooklyn, NY
Hailinel said:
I saw this shit coming months ago just based on the escalating behavior of Era posters in EGS threads. At this point, I doubt that there is a good solution because this was allowed to fester for so long with the EGS Thread Guidelines being little more than a band-aid on a festering wound turning gangrenous.
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they did botch the PR around the EGS announcement in a way that ended up unnecessarily fanning the flames (which the devs themselves own up to in the new Medium post), and I was initially more annoyed by that than I am now, but the backlash is so disproportionate to the offense that you can't really blame Glumberland for it at the end of the day. or at least, you shouldn't
 
Bigg

Bigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,619
I'm extremely tired of seeing people say "well, the announcement post was really aggressive so they kinda deserve this"

Yes, I agree the post was more aggressive than it should have been. But that kind of thing does not, in any way, justify any of the shit they're going through. There's criticism, and then there's death threats, targeted harassment, and outright fabricating comments to make it look like the devs made death threats themselves. No one fucking deserves that.

I mean, for fuck's sake, they're a two person team without a PR firm. People need to fucking chill.
 
Asbsand

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
User banned (3 days): ignoring the mod post
It's all corporate propaganda here.

Yeah, discourse is too toxic as well, but... They're appropriating it to their PR.
 
Cyanity

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
The way this community responds to controversies with such extreme rage is just beyond disappointing. There are arguments to be made about the way Epic has been handling its store/exclusivity contracts, but to go out and harass people just trying to get by for switching storefronts is completely and utterly ridiculous.

There's a reason so few people voted "yes" when that one ERA post asking whether people in here identified themselves as "gamers" popped up.
 
MJForum Poster

MJForum Poster

Member
May 25, 2019
6,026
London
Asbsand said:
It's all corporate propaganda here.

Yeah, discourse is too toxic as well, but... They're appropriating it to their PR.
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B-Dubs said:
Official Staff Communication
Thread rebooted. This is the second thread on this subject which has gone poorly, so let's be extra clear -- when a topic is about harassment, threats, or fake defamatory screenshots, that is a cue to take a step back and remember that nothing at stake here is worth any of this. At all.
  • It is not the time to drop one sentence of condolence before launching into a spiel about how Epic and their partners are also bad.
  • It is not an opportunity to derail the thread into yet another discussion about the many problems with the EGS. There are many many threads about the EGS and its problems and you are welcome to discuss those problems there. This is not such a thread.
If you do not feel any horror or sadness after reading news like this, you should not post in this thread. If you want to write a response that is mostly about your own grievances, you should not post in this thread. Any criticism must be constructive, polite, relevant, and absolutely clear about not being any kind of justification for harassment. Have doubts? Don't post.

On the other hand there should not be any generalizations about all EGS critics being supportive of harassment. A thread like this must be treated seriously; a terrible thing has happened. Posters should be interested in deescalation, not in more conflict.

We will be moderating as tightly as necessary to keep the peace.
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ZSeibar

ZSeibar

Member
Nov 2, 2017
634
Wow. This EGS thing truly brings the worst in people. I didn't like their initial blog post either, but the response is hugely disproportionate
 
svacina

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Cyanity said:
The way this community responds to controversies with such extreme rage is just beyond disappointing. There are arguments to be made about the way Epic has been handling its store/exclusivity contracts, but to go out and harass people just trying to get by for switching storefronts is completely and utterly ridiculous.
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Good thing nobody from here did that then.
 
funky

funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
Is there any particular reason this indie dev has gotten mobbed so bad compared to other EGS games?


IE: is the public facing developer a women, non white or a non white women? That is the normal connection when I see this level of outrage.
 
MJForum Poster

MJForum Poster

Member
May 25, 2019
6,026
London
That Medium article from the Ooblets team might have just sold me a copy of the game. Specifically this part:

While some of what I've said was definitely bad for PR, I stand behind it. A portion of the gaming community is indeed horrendously toxic, entitled, immature, irrationally-angry, and prone to joining hate mobs over any inconsequential issue they can cook up.
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We need to start calling this out for what it is. Fake controversies over Mass Effect 3's ending, the puddles in Spider-Man PS4, graphical downgrades for Witcher 3 or Watchdogs - it's all just an excuse for immature people to rage at developers.
 
Asbsand

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Boke18 said:
Gamers continue to show their ass
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I knee jerked and I was ignorant of the case of this Ooblet incident. I heard of it and then I read the press statement and jumped to the wrong conclusion. I know in hindsight that my remark was too nonchalant and well, shoot me, yes, I did not read the staff post in a whiff of fancy.
MJForum Poster said:
Fake controversies over Mass Effect 3's ending
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I won't start that whole can of worms again but that was most definitely not fake and the criticisms towards that content is still affecting the creative direction of the series.

But on that note the harrassment of key people involved ultimately prove only that gamers have that entitlement, and thusly you can say they deserve not to be dignified with a good response or whatever they want. Criticism is good, even angry passion but if it turns towards harrassment and doxxing and threats, it's become something else.
 
ZSeibar

ZSeibar

Member
Nov 2, 2017
634
MJForum Poster said:
That Medium article from the Ooblets team might have just sold me a copy of the game. Specifically this part:



We need to start calling this out for what it is. Fake controversies over Mass Effect 3's ending, the puddles in Spider-Man PS4, graphical downgrades for Witcher 3 or Watchdogs - it's all just an excuse for immature people to rage at developers.
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My thoughts as well. I'm glad some devs are willing to push back against this attitude
 

Deleted member 20831

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,951
I think this will only further fortify the fact that EGS is a great safety net for small publishers/developers, both in terms of financial support (going exclusive) and also against attacks or mob mentality (negative review bombing, forum bashing on the storefront without positive/constructive discussion which turns a great communication platform against the very game, etc).

Steam only gives tools for the developers/publishers and ask them to fend it off themselves!?, but will every small publisher/developer be able to handle that on the platform the game is being sold?
 
MJForum Poster

MJForum Poster

Member
May 25, 2019
6,026
London
Asbsand said:
I knee jerked and I was ignorant of the case of this Ooblet incident. I heard of it and then I read the press statement and jumped to the wrong conclusion. I know in hindsight that my remark was too nonchalant and well, shoot me, yes, I did not read the staff post in a whiff of fancy.
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"See Staff Post" is literally in the title of this thread you came to post in.
 
werezompire

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,322
funky said:
Is there any particular reason this indie dev has gotten mobbed so bad compared to other EGS games?


IE: is the public facing developer a women, non white or a non white women? That is the normal connection when I see this level of outrage.
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Husband & wife team. As far as I know, they both interact with the public.
 
Ebullientprism

Ebullientprism

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,529
Jesus fucking christ.

All that over buying an entertainment item from a different store front. Holy shit gamers are garbage.

Ryo Hazuki said:
Great write up. Sadly looking at the responses even to that tweet there are plenty of people who are like "it sucks you got death threats but..."

Also imagine commenting this on the article:

V5MCj2T.png


It's quite disturbing what they've had to endure and no doubt will continue to endure.
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Replies in this thread werent wildly different from that comment.
 
Dandy

Dandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,442
funky said:
Is there any particular reason this indie dev has gotten mobbed so bad compared to other EGS games?


IE: is the public facing developer a women, non white or a non white women? That is the normal connection when I see this level of outrage.
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I think it's probably because in their announcement they went after "Gamers" specifically.
 
AHA-Lambda

AHA-Lambda

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,798
User Banned (1 week): ignoring staff post
Massive shame for what happened to this team; I fear this will mask the very valid EGS criticisms though.


funky said:
Is there any particular reason this indie dev has gotten mobbed so bad compared to other EGS games?


IE: is the public facing developer a women, non white or a non white women? That is the normal connection when I see this level of outrage.
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Their announcement could have been handled more delicately let's say
 
Sephzilla

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
funky said:
Is there any particular reason this indie dev has gotten mobbed so bad compared to other EGS games?


IE: is the public facing developer a women, non white or a non white women? That is the normal connection when I see this level of outrage.
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They're a small team that interacts with the public and basically joked about how the EGS saga has blown up beyond all reason
 
Caspar

Caspar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,402
UK
Good luck to Glumberland and I hope it all has a happy ending for them.

Ooblets has always looked like a real chilled out fun game, which makes it all the more absurd that it would be at the heart of such a vitriolic internet hate storm.
 

Deleted member 1726

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,661
Read the first screenshot and that was enough.

Jesus Christ some people are fucking unhinged to type out such things over a game being exclusive to a certain platform.

They need to seek help.
 
Ryo Hazuki

Ryo Hazuki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,474
AHA-Lambda said:
Massive shame for what happened to this team; I fear this will mask the very valid EGS criticisms though.




Their announcement could have been handled more delicately let's say
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If your reaction to a dev team receiving hateful abuse and death threats is you're worried about how much you won't be able to criticise a digital videogame launcher then your priorities might not be where they should be.
 
Dio

Dio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,097
aaaand the comment section of that post turned into shit and only reinforces their stance. glad he didn't exactly apologized, and hopefully can move past this.
 
TubaZef

TubaZef

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,563
Brazil
Ooblets is not a high profile well known game. The devs keep saying proudly how their fanbase was always nice until this point (which makes a lot of sense considering the type of game it is).

I think it's safe to assume that all that harassment and most of the complains are not coming from actual fans or even "potential consumers", this is a targeted harassment campaign that is sadly starting to remind me of all the shit that happened in 2014.
 
Ryo Hazuki

Ryo Hazuki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,474
Dio said:
aaaand the comment section of that post turned into shit and only reinforces their stance. glad he didn't exactly apologized, and hopefully can move past this.
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Yeah. The amount of comments victim blaming the devs and getting "applause" is insane. The comments is flooded with them.

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Hella

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,397
That Medium post is a very powerful statement and I'm glad I read it. Props to the Ooblets devs for having the strength to make it. And the same for Epic's support of them--the bit at the end, about how other companies might not, is very true.

I can only hope this is a self-reflective turning point in the 'gamer' identity, that allows people to place their humanity above the products they consume.
 
metalslimer

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
Good I'm glad he didnt apologize. And man I usually hate using this word to describe consumers but so many people are entitled pricks in the gaming community. They'll whine their asses off over the slightest perceived injustice most times but wouldnt give two shits about the actual lives of the people making these games for them.

Honestly i hope any of you on this site that has engaged into any form of harassment towards the EGS exclusive devs in any capacity are ashamed of yourselves
 
Walnut

Walnut

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
878
Austin, TX
AHA-Lambda said:
Massive shame for what happened to this team; I fear this will mask the very valid EGS criticisms though.




Their announcement could have been handled more delicately let's say
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It's really difficult to even say anything constructive in this topic because the whole situation is tied to the state of the game store, but discussion of the game store (especially in a negative light) is more or less banned in this thread. The situation definitely makes detractors look bad. You can be anti-EGS and anti-harassment at the same time but people are going to have a hard time separating anti-EGS with pro-harassment when the worst of the community is this loud and this awful. The only way to help to prevent this is to change the culture in a positive way. You can't force people to change the way they think or feel, but you can definitely always keep a positive outlook when you're playing a game online, talking about games with people on Twitter, or even posting about them on Era. Reach out to big YouTube influencers, see if they'll do some community events with the intent of just having fun and being nice to each other. It will take work from all of us if we ever want this to stop. It's not really about the EGS, it's just gaming culture, and how it has changed from the 80s and 90s console war mentality to the present day competition between gamers. I don't really know what else to say. Just be nice!!! And try to get your friends to be nice. And if you run into some toxic gamer online, don't give them the attention they want, just ignore them and let them get it out of their system.
 

Deleted member 1413

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
User Banned (2 Weeks) - Ignoring Staff Post
It's the dangers of entitlement and "the customer is always right" mentality.
The industry is pretty tough for those just getting in, Epic Launcher has a ton of issues but aiming at helping out creators is commendable.

Steam defense force hoping to harass studios that take these deals to the point that it scares other studios is pretty disappointing.

On the flip side, feels like a lot of people have heard of the game thanks to this.
Hope it helps the devs out after what they've gone through
 
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