Epic’s Statement on Misinformation & Abuse [See Staff Post] [UP: Devs release statement]

[Isilia]

I just got to the blog post they wrote up. I hope to never experience 1/1000 of what they have been going through.

But this particular wave isn't going to stop without walls to stop the influx of the trash. Everyone should just appeal to their sense of humanity and take a look at what happened here.

Bad PR is one thing. It isn't even close to a normal reaction to what is happening here. I hope people can ask "What if this happened to me or someone I care about?" step in, and fight back with them. Not just for the devs here, but when it inevitably happens in the future as well.

 

[Kilic95]

Of course these assholes are harassing him after he revealed he was jewish, no surprise there.

 

[Mobyduck]

Massive shame for what happened to this team; I fear this will mask the very valid EGS criticisms though.




Their announcement could have been handled more delicately let's say

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The people thinking this is a calculated move by Epic to distract consumers are part of the problem. Specially in this topic of all places.

 

[Walnut]

I don't think anyone here genuinely thinks this was a calculated PR stunt by Epic

At least I hope not.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Massive shame for what happened to this team; I fear this will mask the very valid EGS criticisms though.

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You act like there's not a new thread every week discussing that criticism.

 

[Lashley]

I don't think anyone here genuinely thinks this was a calculated PR stunt by Epic

At least I hope not.

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People definitely do.

 

[MidnightCowboy]

Nerd culture is immature culture. That's just a fact at this point.

 

[Sephzilla]

Massive shame for what happened to this team; I fear this will mask the very valid EGS criticisms though.




Their announcement could have been handled more delicately let's say

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Endorsing tweets that basically say this is some kind of Epic PR move is absolutely disgusting and should have no place on this forum.

 

[Systolique]

Looking at the blog post, we're at a point where the anti-EGS movement is just the next GamerGate ; it's the exact same methods, constant lies & misinformations, racism, sexism, hate speech... etc

And what's terrifying is how much all of that discourse is being allowed everywhere, even here, how little is moderated everywhere you go — I wish there were more lessons taken from the past 5 years of online hateful propaganda.

Coming from the industry, the most infuriating thing is seeing all of those posters - be it here or elsewhere - who spend days long writing lies and talking about an industry, jobs, people they don't know and don't understand.
It's infuriating.
It's always the people that know less who talk most, I've stopped browsing any PC threads I could so I would stay sane not reading the constant nonsense from the same people.

 

[Durden]

Shit like this is one of the big reasons why I've always been uncomfortable identifying myself with the term "Gamer", even though video games as a hobby define me like no other.

Besides the fact that I've just always thought it sounds kind of stupid, no matter how far parts of the "Gamer" community have come, "Gamers" as a whole have proven time and time again that when it comes down to it, they have the upmost capacity in proving themselves as the childish, irresponsible, entitled, and even unhinged group that the more standard public may associate that term and video games in general with. Like all of this, over a GOD DAMN FUCKING STORE FRONT. Like are you FUCKING kidding me people. Are you FUCKING kidding me.

The term "Gamer" is a broad stroke. It's like saying I'm a "Jock". It just naturally comes with certain stigmas attached to it. I don't want to say every time "yeah I'm a gamer, but I'm not an asshole child I swear". Just like I'm sure someone that loves and participates in sports for their major hobby wouldn't want to say every time "yeah I'm a jock, but I love video games too like JRPGs I swear".

On one hand it's a bit of a source of never ending sadness for me. That video games, my most beloved pastime, and the people that play them which includes me, may always destined to be attached to stigmas such as these. On the other hand, it's fucking deserved, as "Gamers" continue to prove time and time again that they are truly creating these stigmas from within, many times with little to no outside influence.

So me? I'm just a dude that just loves video games. It takes longer to say, but it's worth it at least for my own thought process in separating myself from the broad stroke, while still trying to identify what I am. Fuck these trashbags. These..."Gamers". I want absolutely nothing to do with these subhumans.

And the worst part is, you like, or I guess hope, to think communities such as Era are on the right side of the track. Yet when the chips are down, shit comes out of the woodwork, and plenty of this gamer garbage is coming straight out of here. It's baffling what fuckers are capable or. Gamers are trash.

 

[MrWindUpBird]

Massive shame for what happened to this team; I fear this will mask the very valid EGS criticisms though.




Their announcement could have been handled more delicately let's say

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Man, we really don't need another thread for you to "woe is me" about the fact that developers getting death threats might impact criticism of the EGS. Maybe, just maybe you should acknowledge that there are bigger things at stake than right now.

 

[bell wood's jet cola]

Is there any particular reason this indie dev has gotten mobbed so bad compared to other EGS games?


IE: is the public facing developer a women, non white or a non white women? That is the normal connection when I see this level of outrage.

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Because they actually responded to the vitriol and made a statement.

Seems the silent treatment, which people were upset about in the past when it came to Ys Net, etc., is the only way to work with going EGS exclusive.

 

[faceless]

We've been getting nonstop questions about whether patrons will still get Steam keys or not, despite none of our Patreon tiers offering the game at all.

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whoa, wait, what?

did some folks really jump the gun like that???

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Just want to say that those paragraphs on "consumers" and "potential consumers" is something quite a few people on this forum really need to fucking read, probably more than once.

 

[Airbar]

whoa, wait, what?

did some folks really jump the gun like that???

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When I first read about their Patreon I assumed depending on the tier you would get a key, but they never state that so people either didn't read what they were paying for or are trolling.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I don't think anyone here genuinely thinks this was a calculated PR stunt by Epic

At least I hope not.

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Oh there are probably people here who do.

You should have seen how much we got with GB 2016 and Sony is just encouraging the abuse to profit hot takes

 

[ckareset]

whoa, wait, what?

did some folks really jump the gun like that???

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"Legitimate criticism "

 

[RecRoulette]

The Ooblets' devs released a new statement.

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The screencaps are horrifying, and a lot the comments on that blog are horrible as well.

 

[lt519]

I think some people don't really understand the depths of the hate and vitriol that gets thrown at developers. It's easy to not sympathize with a developer when it is valid criticism that you often see on ERA (and even ERA goes overboard). What developers are exposed to through direct messages, Discord, 4chan, etc is entirely another level.

I hope more people read that Medium article and really understand what is happening here. People are trying to make them commit suicide over the platform they chose to sell their game on.

 

[headspawn]

I got a warning for this comment which is pretty eyebrow raising tbh

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I'm confused as to how that is supposed to be a generalization. You can post clear evidence that it is infact attracting scum into what was reasonable discourse who are now the frontline of it; it's been co-opted by shitheads, fullstop. The fact that it's the tactics such as racist shit, death/rape threats, harassment and disinformation campaigns... what other group of asshats within the gaming community does this type of stuff?

 

[modoversus]

The accusation that it's all intentional from Epic and the devs is uncomfortably close to the "professional victims" claims that hate groups like to use on their targets. It helps further harrasment.

 

[SapientWolf]

Looking at the blog post, we're at a point where the anti-EGS movement is just the next GamerGate ; it's the exact same methods, constant lies & misinformations, racism, sexism, hate speech... etc

And what's terrifying is how much all of that discourse is being allowed everywhere, even here, how little is moderated everywhere you go — I wish there were more lessons taken from the past 5 years of online hateful propaganda.

Coming from the industry, the most infuriating thing is seeing all of those posters - be it here or elsewhere - who spend days long writing lies and talking about an industry, jobs, people they don't know and don't understand.
It's infuriating.
It's always the people that know less who talk most, I've stopped browsing any PC threads I could so I would stay sane not reading the constant nonsense from the same people.

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Gamergate was never about anything other than harassment. That type of behavior is not tolerated here. If anyone sees any posts that constitute harassment then I think we all have an obligation to hit the report button.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

The accusation that it's all intentional from Epic and the devs is uncomfortably close to the "professional victims" claims that hate groups like to use on their targets. It helps further harrasment.

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Yep. It's borderline conspiracy theory territory.

 

[closer]

Just want to say that those paragraphs on "consumers" and "potential consumers" is something quite a few people on this forum really need to fucking read, probably more than once.

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definitely agree w/ this

 

[MJForum Poster]

Just want to say that those paragraphs on "consumers" and "potential consumers" is something quite a few people on this forum really need to fucking read, probably more than once.

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Especially those taking issue with Jason Schreier's tweet the other day asking people if they really want to self-identify as a "consumer".

 

[voOsh]

Death threats are insane and the perpetrators should be punished/prosecuted but if people think a corporation like Epic won't use this to their commercial advantage ya'll are dreaming. Tim Sweeney is eating this controversy up. If I somehow get banned for this so be it.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Death threats are insane and the perpetrators should be punished/prosecuted but if people think a corporation like Epic won't use this to their commercial advantage ya'll are dreaming. Tim Sweeney is eating this controversy up. If I somehow get banned for this so be it.

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"but"

 

[voOsh]

"but"

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Tell me, what is the appropriate way to frame EGS criticism on this forum currently? Feels like you'll just get your head chopped off.

 

[Sephzilla]

Death threats are insane and the perpetrators should be punished/prosecuted but if people think a corporation like Epic won't use this to their commercial advantage ya'll are dreaming. Tim Sweeney is eating this controversy up. If I somehow get banned for this so be it.

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I'm pretty sure I heard this exact same type rhetoric thrown at people like Anita Sarkeesian back in the heyday of GamerGate when she was starting her web series and getting a ton of hate for it.

 

[nib95]

The Ooblets' devs released a new statement.

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Holy fuck at those screen grabs in that blog post. I feel so bad for the dev(s) and his wife. Fuck all the disgusting excuses for human beings who posted that vitriol. Embarrassing and just downright awful.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Tell me, what is the appropriate way to frame EGS criticism on this forum currently? Feels like you'll just get your head chopped off.

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Probably not in a thread that's about death threats and hateful racist abuse against the devs taking EGS deals is my guess.

 

[FuriousChipmunk]

I'm pretty sure I heard this exact same type rhetoric thrown at people like Anita Sarkeesian back in the heyday of GamerGate when she was starting her web series and getting a ton of hate for it.

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I dont recall Anita keeping any of her series exclusive and claiming it was for the betterment of all though.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Death threats are insane and the perpetrators should be punished/prosecuted but if people think a corporation like Epic won't use this to their commercial advantage ya'll are dreaming. Tim Sweeney is eating this controversy up. If I somehow get banned for this so be it.

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So it is about ethics in game storefronts?

 

[Feep]

Tell me, what is the appropriate way to frame EGS criticism on this forum currently? Feels like you'll just get your head chopped off.

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You could start by not immediately ignoring the Staff Post at the top of the very first page of this thread.

 

[Tygre]

Comparisons to Gamergate are... unhelpful*

Gamergate was a misogynist hate campaign. It started as a jilted loser's misogynist hate campaign against his ex girlfriend. It continues as a misogynist hate campaign against women in the industry. It pulled in some hangers on who were duped by "Ethics in games journalism", but people who genuinely bought that obvious bullshit were always just window dressing.

The EGS controversy has a set of genuine, fundamental, honest arguments at it's core. It started as a set of arguments about the future direction of PC gaming. These arguments are currently being drowned out by a tidal wave of hate, anger and harassment which is wholly and totally unacceptable.


*They are of course extremely helpful to both those who want to legitimise Gamergate as anything other than a hate movement, or want to delegitimise genuine criticism of EGS. Do not, for one second, think that bad actors will not try to use this for their own ends.

 

[Uthred]

Tell me, what is the appropriate way to frame EGS criticism on this forum currently? Feels like you'll just get your head chopped off.

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"Ah yes, wont somebody please think of the the poor people who just want to criticise EGS? Truly they are the victims here!" The lack of perspective of some posters is genuinely staggering

 

[J-Tier]

Death threats are insane and the perpetrators should be punished/prosecuted but if people think a corporation like Epic won't use this to their commercial advantage ya'll are dreaming. Tim Sweeney is eating this controversy up. If I somehow get banned for this so be it.

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I have a feeling you didnt read the blog post. Or if you "did", you still didn't.

 

[Miracle Ache]

The Ooblets' devs released a new statement.

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Reading this and then seeing #GamersAreGood trending on Twitter sure is something.

 

[headspawn]

Death threats are insane and the perpetrators should be punished/prosecuted but if people think a corporation like Epic won't use this to their commercial advantage ya'll are dreaming. Tim Sweeney is eating this controversy up. If I somehow get banned for this so be it.

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How exactly does one effectively wield a hatemob descending onto all of your business interactions?

 

[sauce]

It's a damn shame that people get mildly inconvenienced and decide, "hey, a death threat is an appropriate response to this!" As if they've never waited on a late port on PC before.

Man, we really don't need another thread for you to "woe is me" about the fact that developers getting death threats might impact criticism of the EGS. Maybe, just maybe you should acknowledge that there are bigger things at stake than right now.

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You mean like climate change, or trump's concentration camps?

 

[Bunkles]

I'm over 40 years old, I have been following the gaming industry basically my entire life... magazines, friends who are devs, GAF, Era, Reddit, Twitter, whatever. I think we've seen some shit in the past... Square going to Sony, Final Fantasy on Xbox, Microsoft buying Rare, Nintendo and Sony split, whatever the betrayal-othon may be.

I gotta say, I never thought the worst example of fanboyism I have ever seen would be born from Epic snagging some exclusives for their PC store. I am amazed / sad / shocked / saddened by the display of some on here, Twitter, Reddit, etc. The amount of anger people have about this is nothing short of mindboggling... it's gotta be more a sign of the times than anything else.

 

[Mbolibombo]

Fuck, those screencaps in the blogpost - was not prepared for that. And I bet they arent the worst either.

I hope the Devs can cope and get through this.

 

[Sephzilla]

Comparisons to Gamergate are... unhelpful*

Gamergate was a misogynist hate campaign. It started as a jilted loser's misogynist hate campaign against his ex girlfriend. It continues as a misogynist hate campaign against women in the industry. It pulled in some hangers on who were duped by "Ethics in games journalism", but people who genuinely bought that obvious bullshit were always just window dressing.

The EGS controversy has a set of genuine, fundamental, honest arguments at it's core. It started as a set of arguments about the future direction of PC gaming. These arguments are currently being drowned out by a tidal wave of hate, anger and harassment which is wholly and totally unacceptable.


*They are of course extremely helpful to both those who want to legitimise Gamergate as anything other than a hate movement, or want to delegitimise genuine criticism of EGS. Do not, for one second, think that bad actors will not try to use this for their own ends.

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I think looking at the uncomfortable parallels between GamerGate and what's going on right now are necessary in order to make sure we don't get a little bit of history repeating itself. There are definitely people who are swooping in and co-opting this entire situation to basically push their own agenda of hate, which isn't entirely dissimilar from what happened with GamerGate. Those people are basically starting from a point of a hate campaign and using the EGS discourse as their vehicle.

 

[Tygre]

I'm over 40 years old, I have been following the gaming industry basically my entire life... magazines, friends who are devs, GAF, Era, Reddit, Twitter, whatever. I think we've seen some shit in the past... Square going to Sony, Final Fantasy on Xbox, Microsoft buying Rare, Nintendo and Sony split, whatever the betrayal-othon may be.

I gotta say, I never thought the worst example of fanboyism I have ever seen would be born from Epic snagging some exclusives for their PC store. I am amazed / sad / shocked / saddened by the display of some on here, Twitter, Reddit, etc. The amount of anger people have about this is nothing short of mindboggling... it's gotta be more a sign of the times than anything else.

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All of your prior examples occurred when the internet was much, much younger and much, much different.

The internet of today is... a nightmare honestly. Social media was a mistake.

 

[closer]

Tell me, what is the appropriate way to frame EGS criticism on this forum currently? Feels like you'll just get your head chopped off.

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Talk about the facts, don't accuse ppl of being disingenuous because they haven't read a dossier about the subject, don't personally attack ppl (ex. tim sweeney), in general act decently? It's not as stringent as you make it out to be, it's just that the language around the topic has had it's shittiness kind of normalized and ppl are trying to combat that.

I think looking at the uncomfortable parallels between GamerGate and what's going on right now are necessary in order to make sure we don't get a little bit of history repeating itself. There are definitely people who are swooping in and co-opting this entire situation to basically push their own agenda of hate, which isn't entirely dissimilar from what happened with GamerGate. Those people are basically starting from a point of a hate campaign and using the EGS discourse as their vehicle.

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absolutely, there is no harm in this at all, and if someone accuses another of gamergatey shit the first response should be re-inspection, not defensiveness. if you feel like you can't post any other way then just don't post and I guess really just think about your command of the language

 

[MrWindUpBird]

It's a damn shame that people get mildly inconvenienced and decide, "hey, a death threat is an appropriate response to this!" As if they've never waited on a late port on PC before.


You mean like climate change, or trump's concentration camps?

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I know you're trying to be clever, but nah, not falling for that bullshit. I'm clearly talking about the growing harassment of game devs that is being talked about in this very thread.

But you're right, I forgot the devs made jab at gamers such as yourself with that climate change point, so clearly they deserved everything that has been thrown at them. Silly me.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I think looking at the uncomfortable parallels between GamerGate and what's going on right now are necessary in order to make sure we don't get a little bit of history repeating itself. There are definitely people who are swooping in and co-opting this entire situation to basically push their own agenda of hate, which isn't entirely dissimilar from what happened with GamerGate. Those people are basically starting from a point of a hate campaign and using the EGS discourse as their vehicle.

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Agreed.

 

[Danzflor]

So the original point made by the original blogpost announcement was just proven right. Huh. Maybe all of this wouldn't be an issue if the so called Gamers weren't so entitled and understood how things work instead of immediately attacking they things they don't like because they don't understand them. Also, most of these cowards attacks come from the same people spouting "SNOWFLAKE" at others, but at the minimum expression of telling them how they act, they are the offended ones. Great.

I think looking at the uncomfortable parallels between GamerGate and what's going on right now are necessary in order to make sure we don't get a little bit of history repeating itself. There are definitely people who are swooping in and co-opting this entire situation to basically push their own agenda of hate, which isn't entirely dissimilar from what happened with GamerGate. Those people are basically starting from a point of a hate campaign and using the EGS discourse as their vehicle.

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Absolutely, I'm afraid this whole EGS situation could spark a second GamerGate but aimed at devs rather than journalists, which could be far worse for the industry. All of this because of extreme entitlement. You have no idea the amount of posts on various communities I've read with people literally saying "WE know what's best for the game, not the devs".

 

[lt519]

Tell me, what is the appropriate way to frame EGS criticism on this forum currently? Feels like you'll just get your head chopped off.

Click to shrink...

This thread is about developers being barraged with harassment to the point people are fabricating racist slander to put them in the dumps and then telling them to commit suicide. Which may be news to you, but online harassment has caused people to commit suicide in the past. To say "that sucks but..." is brushing off the abhorrent behavior occurring and adding more fuel to the fire for those that wish to blame Epic for this instead of highlighting the behavior that needs to be stopped now.

 

[headspawn]

Comparisons to Gamergate are... unhelpful*

Gamergate was a misogynist hate campaign. It started as a jilted loser's misogynist hate campaign against his ex girlfriend. It continues as a misogynist hate campaign against women in the industry. It pulled in some hangers on who were duped by "Ethics in games journalism", but people who genuinely bought that obvious bullshit were always just window dressing.

The EGS controversy has a set of genuine, fundamental, honest arguments at it's core. It started as a set of arguments about the future direction of PC gaming. These arguments are currently being drowned out by a tidal wave of hate, anger and harassment which is wholly and totally unacceptable.


*They are of course extremely helpful to both those who want to legitimise Gamergate as anything other than a hate movement, or want to delegitimise genuine criticism of EGS. Do not, for one second, think that bad actors will not try to use this for their own ends.

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"It started..."

And now it is actively being co-opted from the looks of it.