Epic Games announces multiplatform publishing partnerships with studios behind Control, Limbo, and The Last Guardian

[GhostTrick]

Every game doesn't have/need to release on Steam. The perception that this is a requirement is a problem in itself.

Click to shrink...

It wouldn't be a requirement if most of the other services weren't, to say politely, a complete joke.

 

[Alexandros]

That's like saying Valve should release Half life on EGS.

Click to shrink...

Valve is a developer, not a publisher. So it's more like saying that EA should release its games on Steam.

Every game doesn't have/need to release on Steam. The perception that this is a requirement is a problem in itself.

Click to shrink...

Why is it a problem?

 

[Nintendo]

Valve is a developer, not a publisher. So it's more like saying that EA should release its games on Steam.

Click to shrink...

Valve publish their games. They're a publisher.

 

[Alexandros]

Valve publish their games. They're a publisher.

Click to shrink...

Valve self-publish they games they make themselves.

 

[Nintendo]

Valve self-publish they games they make themselves.

Click to shrink...

Well, Epic is funding 100% cost of development and marketing including devs salaries. It's basically like making the games themselves. Expecting them to release them on Steam is still like expecting Valve to release their games on EGS.

 

[SuikerBrood]

I think this discussion would be way different if people here would actually be in the know of what kinda deals game developers often are forced to sign. I've seen developers with a great track-record sign deals where they had to accept them getting 4% of the net revenues vs. 96% of the net revs going to publishers and that's after the game has recouped all development costs, during which time a developer makes 0$. So imagine being in that position: You're working your butt off for years on end and work insanely hard while knowing that almost all of the profit the game is going to make is going to someone else and you might very well end up in the unemployment line after you delivered the work. A lot of devs still do it just because they love making games, but for a ton of developers out there it's hard to even make a proper business-case given the deals that are usually thrown around. You're not happy with signing a deal where you give up almost everything the game will ever make to one of the big publishers out there? Fine, screw you, the next developer out there will be happy to accept a shitty deal to keep their business running, so feel free to shut down and fire everybody.

You folks have no idea how insanely scary it is to not know whether or not you have to shut down everything you just built for years and years and lay off all the people you've been working with just because, and let's be honest here, most developers have always been shit about getting good deals from publishers. This goes all the way back to publishers becoming a big thing in the late 80s and early 90s when games became way too expensive to self-fund... The fact that it's customary for games to have to recoup their entire development budget (meaning 100% of all revenues go to the publishers until the game actually fully made its development budget back before the actual developer even makes his first penny on his own creation) should tell you all you need to know about how developers in the past have let themselves being fucked over just because they were desperate to keep their studios running. It's customary in the games industry right now for developers to basically take 100% of the risk and for the development budget to basically become a pretty shitty loan that you have to pay off while praying that your game will become a huge hit.

Even if you just shipped a great game, there might not be an offer on the table that's anywhere even close to reasonable cause most publishers know that developers are burning money each month after a game shipped and they probably can't sustain their burnrate for all too long before they have to shut down. I've seen developers being starved to almost bankruptcy just so publishers can sign a deal with them that's heavily in their favor. Publishers can easily sit tight and take their sweet time on contract negotiations, cause with every month that's passing, the studio they're negotiating with will lose money and at some point they'll be desperate enough to accept a shitty deal just to keep the studio from shutting down.

Remember a few years back when we saw tons and tons of smaller games studios just shutting down left and right? That's why. To a ton of studios it didn't make sense to spend 3-5 years on something that they knew would not make them any money.

And look at this now: Here comes Epic, who after their Fortnite success is reaching out to developers and offers them deals that are actually fair for once and gamers flip their shit cause the games might not end up on their preferred platform. I mean, I get it, I also love my Steam library and want to buy my games on one platform (...which is why we heavily negotiated for Ori and the Will of the Wisps to actually launch on Steam day and date), but try to really think about what it's like for developers out there for a while before you start throwing around blame. I don't want to portray Epic as a savior who's finally good and gracious to developers out there, but I know the deals they've signed with these studios are actually good deals that are win/win situations for both parties. So shit on Epic as much as you want, from the perspective of a developer, what they're doing is a good thing in the end and might just force other publishers to change their future deal structures, so that developers can actually make a good living while they're slaving away on your next favorite game.

Things are way better nowadays than they were 5-10 years ago when we saw all these studios shutting down simply because there's now way more avenues where developers could get the financing they need to make their games, but we're still very far from developers actually getting fair and square deals, so I honestly can't blame any studio head who accepts a deal from Epic. If you're faced with getting laid off and having to lay off every single person you've worked with or you accept a deal that's actually fair with the only downside being that your game might not launch on Steam... Just ask yourself what you would do.

There's a reason why a studio like ThatGameCompany, who made some excellent titles with flow, Flower and Journey, had to sign a deal with Apple Arcade - is Jenova Chen happy that his new game didn't launch on all consoles at the same time? Probably not. But I'm guessing it was the best thing to do to keep the studio alive. So it really doesn't help if gamers then throw around blame and post a lot of funny 'shaking my head' emoticons over how dumb some developer was to sign up with this or that publisher instead of going the 'traditional route', simply because the traditional route might have just led them to bankruptcy...

Click to shrink...

Insightful post. Thank you.

 

[OneBadMutha]

I think this discussion would be way different if people here would actually be in the know of what kinda deals game developers often are forced to sign. I've seen developers with a great track-record sign deals where they had to accept them getting 4% of the net revenues vs. 96% of the net revs going to publishers and that's after the game has recouped all development costs, during which time a developer makes 0$. So imagine being in that position: You're working your butt off for years on end and work insanely hard while knowing that almost all of the profit the game is going to make is going to someone else and you might very well end up in the unemployment line after you delivered the work. A lot of devs still do it just because they love making games, but for a ton of developers out there it's hard to even make a proper business-case given the deals that are usually thrown around. You're not happy with signing a deal where you give up almost everything the game will ever make to one of the big publishers out there? Fine, screw you, the next developer out there will be happy to accept a shitty deal to keep their business running, so feel free to shut down and fire everybody.

You folks have no idea how insanely scary it is to not know whether or not you have to shut down everything you just built for years and years and lay off all the people you've been working with just because, and let's be honest here, most developers have always been shit about getting good deals from publishers. This goes all the way back to publishers becoming a big thing in the late 80s and early 90s when games became way too expensive to self-fund... The fact that it's customary for games to have to recoup their entire development budget (meaning 100% of all revenues go to the publishers until the game actually fully made its development budget back before the actual developer even makes his first penny on his own creation) should tell you all you need to know about how developers in the past have let themselves being fucked over just because they were desperate to keep their studios running. It's customary in the games industry right now for developers to basically take 100% of the risk and for the development budget to basically become a pretty shitty loan that you have to pay off while praying that your game will become a huge hit.

Even if you just shipped a great game, there might not be an offer on the table that's anywhere even close to reasonable cause most publishers know that developers are burning money each month after a game shipped and they probably can't sustain their burnrate for all too long before they have to shut down. I've seen developers being starved to almost bankruptcy just so publishers can sign a deal with them that's heavily in their favor. Publishers can easily sit tight and take their sweet time on contract negotiations, cause with every month that's passing, the studio they're negotiating with will lose money and at some point they'll be desperate enough to accept a shitty deal just to keep the studio from shutting down.

Remember a few years back when we saw tons and tons of smaller games studios just shutting down left and right? That's why. To a ton of studios it didn't make sense to spend 3-5 years on something that they knew would not make them any money.

And look at this now: Here comes Epic, who after their Fortnite success is reaching out to developers and offers them deals that are actually fair for once and gamers flip their shit cause the games might not end up on their preferred platform. I mean, I get it, I also love my Steam library and want to buy my games on one platform (...which is why we heavily negotiated for Ori and the Will of the Wisps to actually launch on Steam day and date), but try to really think about what it's like for developers out there for a while before you start throwing around blame. I don't want to portray Epic as a savior who's finally good and gracious to developers out there, but I know the deals they've signed with these studios are actually good deals that are win/win situations for both parties. So shit on Epic as much as you want, from the perspective of a developer, what they're doing is a good thing in the end and might just force other publishers to change their future deal structures, so that developers can actually make a good living while they're slaving away on your next favorite game.

Things are way better nowadays than they were 5-10 years ago when we saw all these studios shutting down simply because there's now way more avenues where developers could get the financing they need to make their games, but we're still very far from developers actually getting fair and square deals, so I honestly can't blame any studio head who accepts a deal from Epic. If you're faced with getting laid off and having to lay off every single person you've worked with or you accept a deal that's actually fair with the only downside being that your game might not launch on Steam... Just ask yourself what you would do.

There's a reason why a studio like ThatGameCompany, who made some excellent titles with flow, Flower and Journey, had to sign a deal with Apple Arcade - is Jenova Chen happy that his new game didn't launch on all consoles at the same time? Probably not. But I'm guessing it was the best thing to do to keep the studio alive. So it really doesn't help if gamers then throw around blame and post a lot of funny 'shaking my head' emoticons over how dumb some developer was to sign up with this or that publisher instead of going the 'traditional route', simply because the traditional route might have just led them to bankruptcy...

Click to shrink...

Preach Thomas! When it comes to the business deals of gaming, I'll always be rooting for the teams that have taken the risks for their dreams and put their blood, sweat and tears into the art we all get to enjoy. I hope that all these mega corporations fighting for content ends up resulting in better deals for all of you!

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

And look at this now: Here comes Epic, who after their Fortnite success is reaching out to developers and offers them deals that are actually fair for once

Click to shrink...

Honestly I think they are far more than "fair". These are EXTREMELY generous terms.
In fact, generous to the point I feel it would be mostly unfair to hold them as standards against other publishers, that sure, can be greedy assholes at times, but on the other hand have every right to be wary about accepting any deal that has a good chance to turn out in a monetary loss for them.

 

[zedox]

I think this discussion would be way different if people here would actually be in the know of what kinda deals game developers often are forced to sign. I've seen developers with a great track-record sign deals where they had to accept them getting 4% of the net revenues vs. 96% of the net revs going to publishers and that's after the game has recouped all development costs, during which time a developer makes 0$. So imagine being in that position: You're working your butt off for years on end and work insanely hard while knowing that almost all of the profit the game is going to make is going to someone else and you might very well end up in the unemployment line after you delivered the work. A lot of devs still do it just because they love making games, but for a ton of developers out there it's hard to even make a proper business-case given the deals that are usually thrown around. You're not happy with signing a deal where you give up almost everything the game will ever make to one of the big publishers out there? Fine, screw you, the next developer out there will be happy to accept a shitty deal to keep their business running, so feel free to shut down and fire everybody.

You folks have no idea how insanely scary it is to not know whether or not you have to shut down everything you just built for years and years and lay off all the people you've been working with just because, and let's be honest here, most developers have always been shit about getting good deals from publishers. This goes all the way back to publishers becoming a big thing in the late 80s and early 90s when games became way too expensive to self-fund... The fact that it's customary for games to have to recoup their entire development budget (meaning 100% of all revenues go to the publishers until the game actually fully made its development budget back before the actual developer even makes his first penny on his own creation) should tell you all you need to know about how developers in the past have let themselves being fucked over just because they were desperate to keep their studios running. It's customary in the games industry right now for developers to basically take 100% of the risk and for the development budget to basically become a pretty shitty loan that you have to pay off while praying that your game will become a huge hit.

Even if you just shipped a great game, there might not be an offer on the table that's anywhere even close to reasonable cause most publishers know that developers are burning money each month after a game shipped and they probably can't sustain their burnrate for all too long before they have to shut down. I've seen developers being starved to almost bankruptcy just so publishers can sign a deal with them that's heavily in their favor. Publishers can easily sit tight and take their sweet time on contract negotiations, cause with every month that's passing, the studio they're negotiating with will lose money and at some point they'll be desperate enough to accept a shitty deal just to keep the studio from shutting down.

Remember a few years back when we saw tons and tons of smaller games studios just shutting down left and right? That's why. To a ton of studios it didn't make sense to spend 3-5 years on something that they knew would not make them any money.

And look at this now: Here comes Epic, who after their Fortnite success is reaching out to developers and offers them deals that are actually fair for once and gamers flip their shit cause the games might not end up on their preferred platform. I mean, I get it, I also love my Steam library and want to buy my games on one platform (...which is why we heavily negotiated for Ori and the Will of the Wisps to actually launch on Steam day and date), but try to really think about what it's like for developers out there for a while before you start throwing around blame. I don't want to portray Epic as a savior who's finally good and gracious to developers out there, but I know the deals they've signed with these studios are actually good deals that are win/win situations for both parties. So shit on Epic as much as you want, from the perspective of a developer, what they're doing is a good thing in the end and might just force other publishers to change their future deal structures, so that developers can actually make a good living while they're slaving away on your next favorite game.

Things are way better nowadays than they were 5-10 years ago when we saw all these studios shutting down simply because there's now way more avenues where developers could get the financing they need to make their games, but we're still very far from developers actually getting fair and square deals, so I honestly can't blame any studio head who accepts a deal from Epic. If you're faced with getting laid off and having to lay off every single person you've worked with or you accept a deal that's actually fair with the only downside being that your game might not launch on Steam... Just ask yourself what you would do.

There's a reason why a studio like ThatGameCompany, who made some excellent titles with flow, Flower and Journey, had to sign a deal with Apple Arcade - is Jenova Chen happy that his new game didn't launch on all consoles at the same time? Probably not. But I'm guessing it was the best thing to do to keep the studio alive. So it really doesn't help if gamers then throw around blame and post a lot of funny 'shaking my head' emoticons over how dumb some developer was to sign up with this or that publisher instead of going the 'traditional route', simply because the traditional route might have just led them to bankruptcy...

Click to shrink...

100% Correct.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

Honestly I think they are far more than "fair". These are EXTREMELY generous terms.
In fact, generous to the point I feel it would be mostly unfair to hold them as standards against other publishers, that sure, can be greedy assholes at times, but on the other hand have every right to be wary about accepting any deal that has a good chance to turn out in a monetary loss for them.

Click to shrink...

The Epic deal is second to no one honestly, maybe EA Originals is better but it's only for indie games and not AAA titles.

100% of the revenue goes to the studio after EA recoups the cost of development and the studio keeps the IP.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Well, Epic is funding 100% cost of development and marketing including devs salaries. It's basically like making the games themselves. Expecting them to release them on Steam is still like expecting Valve to release their games on EGS.

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure why people keep specifying "including the devs salaries", by the way.
Isn't that obvious, when "dev salaries" are the overwhelming majority of the pie in any calculation of development costs?

 

[EvilBoris]

I'm not sure why people keep specifying "including the devs salaries", by the way.
Isn't that obvious, when "dev salaries" are the overwhelming majority of the pie in any calculation of development costs?

Click to shrink...

I don't think people have put 2+2 together.
It's because that's what the PR says and they are parrots

 

[Iron Eddie]

Valve is a developer, not a publisher. So it's more like saying that EA should release its games on Steam.

Why is it a problem?

Click to shrink...

Mosty people would agree it would be nice for all games to be on Steam, or for that matter all games on all platforms if possible. Epic sees things differently and are competing with Steam for customers. One way to get customers obviosuly is to have exclusive content.

 

[Hektor]

Imagine being so far up corporate ass, you accuse people of using THREATS when they say they are not going to buy a Videogame anymore

 

[WhovianGamer]

Pleased for the developers, but I do think Sony has dropped the ball here.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Pleased for the developers, but I do think Sony has dropped the ball here.

Click to shrink...

We'll know in 8-10 years, i guess.

 

[City 17]

Epic finally using that Fortnite money to produce actual new products, and add something that wouldn't have been there otherwise, that's pretty good.

I wonder which one would come sooner though: Ueda's next game or a fully featured EGS? Hopefully before 2030.

 

[Iron Eddie]

Pleased for the developers, but I do think Sony has dropped the ball here.

Click to shrink...

Would Sony have released these games on anything other than the PS5 and possibly the PS4? Epic can recoup this investment by having games on those platforms plus the Xbox platforms plus the PC. I am sure Sony has already quite the overhead of people employed making games for them.

 

[Nintendo]

I'm not sure why people keep specifying "including the devs salaries", by the way.
Isn't that obvious, when "dev salaries" are the overwhelming majority of the pie in any calculation of development costs?

Click to shrink...

That's why I said "including" because many people don't realize it. I didn't say development cost and salaries.

 

[MJForum Poster]

I think this discussion would be way different if people here would actually be in the know of what kinda deals game developers often are forced to sign. I've seen developers with a great track-record sign deals where they had to accept them getting 4% of the net revenues vs. 96% of the net revs going to publishers and that's after the game has recouped all development costs, during which time a developer makes 0$. So imagine being in that position: You're working your butt off for years on end and work insanely hard while knowing that almost all of the profit the game is going to make is going to someone else and you might very well end up in the unemployment line after you delivered the work. A lot of devs still do it just because they love making games, but for a ton of developers out there it's hard to even make a proper business-case given the deals that are usually thrown around. You're not happy with signing a deal where you give up almost everything the game will ever make to one of the big publishers out there? Fine, screw you, the next developer out there will be happy to accept a shitty deal to keep their business running, so feel free to shut down and fire everybody.

You folks have no idea how insanely scary it is to not know whether or not you have to shut down everything you just built for years and years and lay off all the people you've been working with just because, and let's be honest here, most developers have always been shit about getting good deals from publishers. This goes all the way back to publishers becoming a big thing in the late 80s and early 90s when games became way too expensive to self-fund... The fact that it's customary for games to have to recoup their entire development budget (meaning 100% of all revenues go to the publishers until the game actually fully made its development budget back before the actual developer even makes his first penny on his own creation) should tell you all you need to know about how developers in the past have let themselves being fucked over just because they were desperate to keep their studios running. It's customary in the games industry right now for developers to basically take 100% of the risk and for the development budget to basically become a pretty shitty loan that you have to pay off while praying that your game will become a huge hit.

Even if you just shipped a great game, there might not be an offer on the table that's anywhere even close to reasonable cause most publishers know that developers are burning money each month after a game shipped and they probably can't sustain their burnrate for all too long before they have to shut down. I've seen developers being starved to almost bankruptcy just so publishers can sign a deal with them that's heavily in their favor. Publishers can easily sit tight and take their sweet time on contract negotiations, cause with every month that's passing, the studio they're negotiating with will lose money and at some point they'll be desperate enough to accept a shitty deal just to keep the studio from shutting down.

Remember a few years back when we saw tons and tons of smaller games studios just shutting down left and right? That's why. To a ton of studios it didn't make sense to spend 3-5 years on something that they knew would not make them any money.

And look at this now: Here comes Epic, who after their Fortnite success is reaching out to developers and offers them deals that are actually fair for once and gamers flip their shit cause the games might not end up on their preferred platform. I mean, I get it, I also love my Steam library and want to buy my games on one platform (...which is why we heavily negotiated for Ori and the Will of the Wisps to actually launch on Steam day and date), but try to really think about what it's like for developers out there for a while before you start throwing around blame. I don't want to portray Epic as a savior who's finally good and gracious to developers out there, but I know the deals they've signed with these studios are actually good deals that are win/win situations for both parties. So shit on Epic as much as you want, from the perspective of a developer, what they're doing is a good thing in the end and might just force other publishers to change their future deal structures, so that developers can actually make a good living while they're slaving away on your next favorite game.

Things are way better nowadays than they were 5-10 years ago when we saw all these studios shutting down simply because there's now way more avenues where developers could get the financing they need to make their games, but we're still very far from developers actually getting fair and square deals, so I honestly can't blame any studio head who accepts a deal from Epic. If you're faced with getting laid off and having to lay off every single person you've worked with or you accept a deal that's actually fair with the only downside being that your game might not launch on Steam... Just ask yourself what you would do.

There's a reason why a studio like ThatGameCompany, who made some excellent titles with flow, Flower and Journey, had to sign a deal with Apple Arcade - is Jenova Chen happy that his new game didn't launch on all consoles at the same time? Probably not. But I'm guessing it was the best thing to do to keep the studio alive. So it really doesn't help if gamers then throw around blame and post a lot of funny 'shaking my head' emoticons over how dumb some developer was to sign up with this or that publisher instead of going the 'traditional route', simply because the traditional route might have just led them to bankruptcy...

Click to shrink...

When Epic started making exclusivity deals last year, I said that if people want to be angry, they should be angry at the root cause (rising development costs, a more crowded market where visibility suffers) than the symptom (developers taking guaranteed payments). I have no issues with developers feeling financially secure as they work on games. If I have to buy Control 2 on EGS rather than Steam, then so be it.

By the way, Ori is a fantastic game and I really enjoyed it.

 

[Imitation Of Life]

Valve is a developer, not a publisher. So it's more like saying that EA should release its games on Steam.



Why is it a problem?

Click to shrink...

You tell me? If you fund a game you can put wherever you waby. Period. Don't like it don't buy, but crying about it won't change anything.

Would Sony have released these games on anything other than the PS5 and possibly the PS4? Epic can recoup this investment by having games on those platforms plus the Xbox platforms plus the PC. I am sure Sony has already quite the overhead of people employed making games for them.

Click to shrink...

Sony wants IP ownership except for special cases like Spider-Man. They never want another Crash or Spyro fiasco.

 

[Iron Eddie]

When Epic started making exclusivity deals last year, I said that if people want to be angry, they should be angry at the root cause (rising development costs, a more crowded market where visibility suffers) than the symptom (developers taking guaranteed payments). I have no issues with developers feeling financially secure as they work on games. If I have to buy Control 2 on EGS rather than Steam, then so be it.

By the way, Ori is a fantastic game and I really enjoyed it.

Click to shrink...

To me it's ridiculous and very ignorant at the amount of people who in the comforts of their own home with no actual investment and no risk can judge any developer who makes a deal with any publisher. Like how entitled can one be?

Sony wants IP ownership except for special cases like Spider-Man. They never want another Crash or Spyro fiasco.

Click to shrink...

Yes, they have always wanted IP ownership. What exactly are they doing with some of them like Heavenly Sword? Abdsolutely nothing. We all know you'd be thrilled Sony locking up many more deals (with third party), but I don't want to see any one company gain too much ownership. In the end it's not good for anyone.

 

[Alexandros]

Well, Epic is funding 100% cost of development and marketing including devs salaries. It's basically like making the games themselves. Expecting them to release them on Steam is still like expecting Valve to release their games on EGS.

Click to shrink...

If that is your criteria for separating developer from publisher, according to the announcement Epic will fund "up to" 100% of the budget, so different studios will make different deals with different percentages.

Mosty people would agree it would be nice for all games to be on Steam, or for that matter all games on all platforms if possible. Epic sees things differently and are competing with Steam for customers. One way to get customers obviosuly is to have exclusive content.

Click to shrink...

I agree.

You tell me? If you fund a game you can put wherever you waby. Period. Don't like it don't buy, but crying about it won't change anything.

Click to shrink...

I agree 100% that developers and customers are free to make business and purchasing decisions respectively as they see fit. I disagree on the term "crying" for customers expressing their preference.

 

[Imitation Of Life]

To me it's ridiculous and very ignorant at the amount of people who in the comforts of their own home with no actual investment and no risk can judge any developer who makes a deal with any publisher. Like how entitled can one be?



Yes, they have always wanted IP ownership. What exactly are they doing with some of them like Heavenly Sword? Abdsolutely nothing. We all know you'd be thrilled Sony locking up many more deals (with third party), but I don't want to see any one company gain too much ownership. In the end it's not good for anyone.

Click to shrink...

Plenty of publishers have IPs wasting away. We saw how well Ninja Theory did trying to self-publish and keep IP. Doubt Heavenly Sword would have helped them much. What did Sunset Overdrive do for Insomniac? Keeping ownership of IP is not some holy grail.

 

[Alexandros]

To me it's ridiculous and very ignorant at the amount of people who in the comforts of their own home with no actual investment and no risk can judge any developer who makes a deal with any publisher. Like how entitled can one be?

Click to shrink...

Entitled about what? The decision to purchase a game or not shouldn't be considered judgment towards any developer in my opinion.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

As someone who has seen Remedy struggle with sales, having full development backing is heart warming at the very least. This might not necessarily mean Alan Wake 2 but man ill take them having some backing.

 

[Iron Eddie]

Plenty of publishers have IPs wasting away. We saw how well Ninja Theory did trying to self-publish and keep IP. Doubt Heavenly Sword would have helped them much. What did Sunset Overdrive do for Insomniac? Keeping ownership of IP is not some holy grail.

Click to shrink...

Ok, then why does Sony insist on owning them? I would think most developers would like to own their own IP's so that they can distribute them any way they choose in the future but deals need to be made sometimes for the health and future of being a game developer. This is a business after all and Sony (or anyone else) does not care about being as pro-consumer as possible. Which explains the current situation here and why some are a bit upset it's Epic but if it were Sony more would likely be upset because Sony would limit even more platforms for it to be on.

Entitled about what? The decision to purchase a game or not shouldn't be considered judgment towards any developer in my opinion.

Click to shrink...

I get that and you can vote with your wallet, but to feel any ill will towards them or any consumer is just ignorant.

I don't think anybody is finding fault with your decision to purchase or not purchase a game based on what store its on (and by extension, what features it offers). I feel that posts like that are aimed at the people who harass developers on social media for taking such a deal.

Click to shrink...

Pretty much. Nobody here is in their situation. Nobody here is working hard at making these games all while trying to earn a living. So to sit at home and judge anyone is ridiculous. The only risk you have is whether or not to pay $60 for the game (or whatever the retail costs ends up being). That is a huge contadiction to what the developers are in.

 

[MJForum Poster]

Entitled about what? The decision to purchase a game or not shouldn't be considered judgment towards any developer in my opinion.

Click to shrink...

I don't think anybody is finding fault with your decision to purchase or not purchase a game based on what store its on (and by extension, what features it offers). I feel that posts like that are aimed at the people who harass developers on social media for taking such a deal.

 

[Alexandros]

I get that, but to feel any ill will towards them or any consumer is just ignorant.

Click to shrink...

Fully agreed. This has been my argument from the start of this Epic exclusivity thing. Developers have every right to make a business decision and explain it to customers. Customers have every right to make a purchasing decision and explain it to developers.

I don't think anybody is finding fault with your decision to purchase or not purchase a game based on what store its on (and by extension, what features it offers). I feel that posts like that are aimed at the people who harass developers on social media for taking such a deal.

Click to shrink...

To my knowledge nobody, even the most hardline opponent of Epic's policies, has ever supported harassing anyone over these deals. I am all for customers expressing their disagreement but never in the form of harassment or personal attacks.

 

[Jade1962]

This. The level of entitlement is insane.
The amount of hatred is complete non-sense, Epic has done way more good moves for the video-game industry as a whole than bad ones.
The ease of access to UE4, the amount of free content on it, the Mega-grants, now this publishing deal...

But ho noes, they secured exclusivity to their store in the past and they don't even have a shopping cart, BOYCOTT.

I mean yes of course the games they are 100% financing will be exclusively on their store on PC. I don't recall seeing half life alyx, portal 2 or CS:GO on GOG or anywhere else.
I really like Steam too but some people need to chill.

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No one will complain that those games aren't on other platforms either. It's because when people say they hate exclusives 99% of the time what they are really saying is that they hate the game isn't on the platform they use. They wrap it in a lot words, pro consumer this or that and something something more people can play the game. And with all that not one time have I ever seen any of these people advocate for more games to be ported to mobile phones or become F2P. Exclusives are bad people only ever advocate for games to come to their platform. Which in and of itself isn't a problem. It's the false sense of selflessness and righteousness that is so annoying.

 

[Iron Eddie]

Fully agreed. This has been my argument from the start of this Epic exclusivity thing. Developers have every right to make a business decision and explain it to customers. Customers have every right to make a purchasing decision and explain it to developers.



To my knowledge nobody, even the most hardline opponent of Epic's policies, has ever supported harassing anyone over these deals. I am all for customers expressing their disagreement but never in the form of harassment or personal attacks.

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I am also 100% behing you expressing why you don't like Epic and hopefully one day, or what likely appears to be one year, they can improve things to a level of what PC gamers not only want but expect.

 

[MJForum Poster]

Fully agreed. This has been my argument from the start of this Epic exclusivity thing. Developers have every right to make a business decision and explain it to customers. Customers have every right to make a purchasing decision and explain it to developers.



To my knowledge nobody, even the most hardline opponent of Epic's policies, has ever supported harassing anyone over these deals. I am all for customers expressing their disagreement but never in the form of harassment or personal attacks.

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I agree, I haven't seen that on ERA, but when people post in these threads defending a developer's decision to take a deal, they are writing a defense against the totality of arguments and incidents they see, which unfortunately can include places like Reddit and Twitter.

 

[jaekeem]

I wish Valve would do something similar

they have the cash flow

 

[Imitation Of Life]

I am also 100% behing you expressing why you don't like Epic and hopefully one day, or what likely appears to be one year, they can improve things to a level of what PC gamers not only want but expect.

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We'll see. I'm skeptical that improving the quality of the platform will make everything rosy.

 

[HStallion]

Has GENdesign made the transition to a full studio? Last time I heard of them it was a tiny place more focused on concept work and setting up partnerships with other groups to create the actual games, kind of like what they did with Sony and Japan Studio for TLG. Wonder who they might work with if that's still the case.

 

[Iron Eddie]

I wish Valve would do something similar

they have the cash flow

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They have picked a few smaller developers like the one who made Firewatch.

 

[mdf/markus]

Man ... thanks Thomas for those lines.
It's good to hear for someone having a lot of insight & putting all the platform emotional stuff on the side.
In the end it's about being able to do what you're good at and what you're passionate about, while still being able to care for your family.

There's so much good stuff out there. If you want to make your semi-political statement with your support and purchases, you won't be left out without alternatives. Not at all.

 

[Hyun Sai]

Good for those devs. I really don't care about which platform the games are on PC, it's not like I have to pay a monthly fee to use EGS. Everybody needs its console war it seems...

No one will complain that those games aren't on other platforms either. It's because when people say they hate exclusives 99% of the time what they are really saying is that they hate the game isn't on the platform they use. They wrap it in a lot words, pro consumer this or that and something something more people can play the game. And with all that not one time have I ever seen any of these people advocate for more games to be ported to mobile phones or become F2P. Exclusives are bad people only ever advocate for games to come to their platform. Which in and of itself isn't a problem. It's the false sense of selflessness and righteousness that is so annoying.

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Also this.

 

[jaekeem]

They have picked a few smaller developers like the one who made Firewatch.

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yeah, but that's basically just acquiring talent

I mean funding other studios and providing stability. valve probably just sits on a fuckton of cash.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

Plenty of publishers have IPs wasting away. We saw how well Ninja Theory did trying to self-publish and keep IP. Doubt Heavenly Sword would have helped them much. What did Sunset Overdrive do for Insomniac? Keeping ownership of IP is not some holy grail.

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This is some bullshit lol

Yes, let's talk how Bungie kept Destiny for themselves and now they have a big source of revenue or how Techland, after losing Dead Island, they made Dying Light, funded by WB and they kept the a big studio running thanks to the revenue from the IP or how FromSoftware owns (partially) the Dark Souls series and Sekiro and we saw how millions of copies they sold or even how Titanfall was owned by Respawn and when they made a fuckton of money thanks to the IP etc....

IP ownership is vital, we are litterally seeing it right now, with Remedy, PlatinumGames, genDESIGN, all the studio signing for EA Originals etc...

 

[ghostcrew]

Has GENdesign made the transition to a full studio? Last time I heard of them it was a tiny place more focused on concept work and setting up partnerships with other groups to create the actual games, kind of like what they did with Sony and Japan Studio for TLG. Wonder who they might work with if that's still the case.

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I believe so. In the announcement video they say 'since we have gone indie and opened a studio...'

 

[EvilBoris]

Plenty of publishers have IPs wasting away. We saw how well Ninja Theory did trying to self-publish and keep IP. Doubt Heavenly Sword would have helped them much. What did Sunset Overdrive do for Insomniac? Keeping ownership of IP is not some holy grail.

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It's part of the valuation of your business, it's an asset. Having a successfull IP you fully own is incredibly valuable, otherwise you are just a collection of people with that can all quit and carry on elsewhere.

You only need to look at any thread about either console and see how people are looking forward to new entries into a franchise they've already played and the reason why big publishers choose to make sequels rather than new IP.[/QUOTE]

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

No one will complain that those games aren't on other platforms either. It's because when people say they hate exclusives 99% of the time what they are really saying is that they hate the game isn't on the platform they use. They wrap it in a lot words, pro consumer this or that and something something more people can play the game. And with all that not one time have I ever seen any of these people advocate for more games to be ported to mobile phones or become F2P. Exclusives are bad people only ever advocate for games to come to their platform. Which in and of itself isn't a problem. It's the false sense of selflessness and righteousness that is so annoying.

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This, 100%.

Some of y'all are nuts, lol.

 

[Nintendo]

They have picked a few smaller developers like the one who made Firewatch.

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And made them to work on Half-life Alyx :(

 

[Iron Eddie]

And made them to work on Half-life Alyx :(

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The game appears to have turned out very well.

 

[Nintendo]

Plenty of publishers have IPs wasting away. We saw how well Ninja Theory did trying to self-publish and keep IP. Doubt Heavenly Sword would have helped them much. What did Sunset Overdrive do for Insomniac? Keeping ownership of IP is not some holy grail.

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IP ownership adds value to the studio even if they don't use it.

The game appears to have turned out very well.

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Yeah I like it but I want In The Valley of Gods!

 

[razakin]

And made them to work on Half-life Alyx :(

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Since when Valve made them work on Alyx, didn't some members of Campo Santo choose to work on Alyx, which was not surprising choice. I mean what dev wouldn't want to work on project like that.

 

[AshenOne]

Every game doesn't have/need to release on Steam. The perception that this is a requirement is a problem in itself.

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This is like saying expecting every PC game to release on a platform that has majority of the audience that actually buys AAA or AA games, is wrong and shouldn't be. This is seriously one of the most dumb comments I've seen in EGS threads. Customers flock to it because it offers them the best experience on PC by far.

From a business point of view Its almost impossible for a thought like that unless.. You're getting a better deal elsewhere when a company like epic gives you a large moneystash.

 

[Fishsnot]

That's like saying Valve should release Half life on EGS.

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They should.
I'm totally for all games everywhere.

 

[Iron Eddie]

IP ownership adds value to the studio even if they don't use it.



Yeah I like it but I want In The Valley of Gods!

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Valve should have enough money and resources to not pull them, yes I agree.