Definitely. I believe there was a thread just a couple of weeks ago that asked if Sony would have to compromise its PS5 games if it plans on porting them to PC. A lot of people believe that Sony's results cannot be replicated on any other system.
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Epic Game's Brian Karis Runs Unreal Engine 5 PS5 Demo on his PC
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Definitely. I believe there was a thread just a couple of weeks ago that asked if Sony would have to compromise its PS5 games if it plans on porting them to PC. A lot of people believe that Sony's results cannot be replicated on any other system.
you guys really need to get out (on the internet) more lol
Sony fans been saying that all over the place for the past year. Showing it only on PS5 last year have caused a huge misconception amongst these type of gamers.
You say this in a forum where people were openly speculating that multiplat games on Series X could have 'slow moving elevators' where there were none on PS5.
The guy he need to answer is a crazy fanboy
When DirectStorage will arrive PC will be able to be as good and when PCIE 5 arrive for consumer SSD in 2022 or 2023 it will be better I/O on PC.
Those "type of gamers" seems to have more ennemies than troops honestly. The stream is also more interesting than just having to answer them.
I don't think he is on era but I check the twitter thread because I was sure Brian Karis needed to answer to someone saying non sense.
OMG dude talks like his grandmother just got gravely insulted LOL
You misunderstood. I meant it as in the guy calling people delusional extremists is the true delusional extremist.
My plastic box is hurt! :(
I need to talk to your manager right now!!!
Do people think game developers run their editors on the console or something? Of course all of this tech was built on, and also for, the PC.
It's a multi platform scaleable engine.
Edit - Fast IO is still a big deal, it removes some key limiting factors with the amount of memory in the gaming device and massively speeds up general access which reduces barrier to entry for getting into a game. I have no idea how much streaming was really going on in that initial UE5 reveal but anything you can do with fast storage can also be replicated with more memory and a longer initial load, but that doesn't make for a great gaming experience imo.
It's a multi platform scaleable engine.
Edit - Fast IO is still a big deal, it removes some key limiting factors with the amount of memory in the gaming device and massively speeds up general access which reduces barrier to entry for getting into a game. I have no idea how much streaming was really going on in that initial UE5 reveal but anything you can do with fast storage can also be replicated with more memory and a longer initial load, but that doesn't make for a great gaming experience imo.
I must have missed that. Actually thought it was shown the following day on pc in Germany or something. Must be misremembering
How has anyone forgotten that not long ago, even now actually, we have had incredible amounts of insane stupid people making their stupidity quite public and proudly, storming the capital and accusing Bill Gates of planting chips in covid (you know the not real virus) vaccines? And these are just small pieces of the planetary stupid pie. Is people believing this shit breaking the suspension of disbelief for you? Lol.
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I didn't think anyone on era believed the demo couldn't be done on a pc.. that's just ludicrous.
I wasn't too impressed by the demo tbh with you and probably why I missed all of that.
There were a lot of people on this very forum saying that. Either you guys are ignorant to the fact or have selected memory.
Tim Sweeney actually engaging with these console warriors...billionaire life must be boring.
Because you think when Direct Storage will release PC will not be as good as the PS5 at least in bandwith* and later better with PCIE 5. I am a playstation player but I am not delusional, you can check my post history. There is a moment fast I/O will arrive on PC too. Currently it can be compensated with more RAM.
*From the last Direct Storage document it seems copy from Main RAM to VRAM will exist on PC, latency will probably be higher than on consoles.
My only worry is how much of GPU power it will take to decompress data but AMD and Nvidia told than in new GPUs they will include a hardware decompressor.
And I suppose he have 128 or 256 GB of RAM as a dev.
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I believe some people thought that this demo was completely relying on the SSD speed for the streaming of assets, specially when the character flies at such high speeds over the environment. To be fair, that part of the demo had not been shown on any other platforms, right? So while I'm sure that will be possible on PC and series X, maybe it won't be possible on ANY PC ? (read: PCs with a HDD)
This is so pathetic that people can feel hurt because their platform of choice is not stomping on the others like they dreamed (which is already an idea that raises a lot of question on their insecurity).
It's sad that Brian and Tim have to explain and engage on that, but I think it's good that they do, not to let anyone misunderstanding their messaging which was quite clear : yes, PS5 I/O is great and is helping to make a great use of our technology, no it doesn't mean that other hardware can't make great use of our technology either (with varying levels of advantages and drawbacks)
I didn't call you delusional. I called the guy who tweeted that delusional. But lets move on :)
Yes, people seem to compare the speed of the drives and call it a day with what can deal with what. There's a consideration of the whole system required which includes, on the PS5, the IO controller which will decompress data off the drive without creating any sort of bottleneck. If you compress the data on the SSD by a factor of 3 then the decompression controller streams that data at the read speed of the SSD multiplied by the compression ratio (theoretically 17 GB/s). There are bottlenecks with NVMe drives on PC currently which motherboard manufacturers will have to catch up with in the near future. Tests on YouTube can show the gains going from Sata SSD to NVMe are not what you'd expect on PC because of these bottlenecks that those responsible for the PS5's design have removed from the system.
There's a really interesting article here about the IO/Compression tech that they're going to be using in the PS5 this gen.
This is beyond embarrassing. That dude is really fighting for Sony's honor here. Lol. Don't know why people go out of their way to sef themselves out for disappointment like that.
Like, a lot of people. From what I recall, immediately after the UE5 reveal a bunch of Epic execs (including Tim Sweeny) had an interview with Geoff Keighley. Geoff explicitly asked about SSD requirements and whether the demo was only possible on PS5, and everyone dodged the question. Naturally, that lead to Sony fanboys concluding the demo was only possible on PS5. If I wasn't at work, I'd probably be able to find Tim Sweeny tweets last year heavily implying (but not outright stating) that the reveal demo was only possible on PS5.
Even after the public release of UE5 which revealed that Nanite works on standard HDDs, I saw arguments on this very forum that the new demo that shipped with UE5 was simplified and that the reveal demo was still only possible on PS5. This stream was supposed to lay that argument to rest, but I guess we're going to see another downgradaton. Fanboys gonna fanboy, I guess.
PCs can have much more system memory than the consoles which means the reliance on the storage medium can be drastically reduced by precaching data in RAM. If a computer has enough RAM even a HDD could be OK, but I imagine the initial load times would be measured in minutes. As fast as the SSDs in the new consoles are they are still a fraction of the speed of DDR4. PC has been able to use programs like Dimmdrive to load entire games into system memory with just a few clicks for years now.
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Nanite is a system which turns assets into polygons according to their placement in game world and decide which polygon goes into which rasterization path.
Mesh shaders are geometry rendering path.
Mesh shaders can and likely will be used with Nanite for the h/w rasterization path at the very least. They are sitting at a different parts of geometry pipeline.
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Good to see my memory hasn't completely failed me.
I remember people suggesting that it had to be a mistranslation or something. Quite amusing in hindsight.
It will certainly be interesting to see how the limitations play out in actual games.
Yup.
This is so embarrassing.
Agreed.
The removal of IO bottlenecks on PS5 is greatly appreciated, though in many cases it's really not necessary in a PC environment where you can circumvent such bottlenecks through brute force. Initial loading is one of the few areas where PC can be a bit behind due to more reliance on higher memory capacity.
This is a good way of putting it. Mesh shaders address pipeline bottlenecks like unnecessary vertex batches and attribute fetches, while Nanite optimizes which triangles should be rendered on screen. Ideally, you'd want both to work in tandem for optimal performance.
Maybe the rest of the office has to drink a shot for every reply to a moron?
They kinda do but only on PS5's primitive shader path so far as far as I can tell. I'd expect Epic to support mesh shaders on PC and XS in final release though.
Some really great experimentation and fun going on with the UE5 early access version on Youtube. I have been nosing around, but have had a hard time carving out enough time to come up with anything relevant. Overall, so far, I am loving it though. Not sure why anyone would really believe that all of this is only possible on PS5. I will say that the Valley demo struggles on my system. I am only running a 2080 Super with 8GB of Vram and 48GB of system ram though.
UE5's future is bright no mater what system it's on.
I can see a company like The Coalition putting the two together for the UE5 game. and possibly Epic rolling their work into the main branch
No one did.
The only discussion we really had here was the last segment where the player flies very quickly through the ruins while they get destroyed or whatever. That was the one thing people suggested was possible due to the fast loading of the ssd.
Other than that, no one saw the general demo as some technical marvel for the PS5 platform lol. As much as UE is awesome, I don't expect it to ace anything from ND and SSM (internal engines, projects)
Well considering that ~90% of Nanite triangles go into their s/w rasterizer using a faster h/w mesh shaders path for the remaining 10% won't result in much performance gains.
But if some game will use Nanite for less world geometry than the demos do and will instead use more "traditional" geometry with high polycounts it may actually prove to be beneficial.
nah, a lot of people did. I saw a shit load of it myself. you probably didn't see it here, but it was definitely a thing
considering I don't expect many companies to take advantage of multimillion triangle assets (outside of non-interactive media), the mesh shaders path, might be the primary way to go
Actually you are likely right.
I must have ignore additional discussions on it since there were lots and lots of pages on it. I find it ridiculous thought that some thought the initial Epic demo was some insane demo only possible on PS5. Gimme a break, even the "slide through opening" was mocked as some last gen stuff (which I recall saying it's more like a way to "pace" the level or so) so it baffles me this was the take away for some.
Kinda glad I can just ignore some of that noise lol.
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Posts like these come across as gaslighting when you make them without qualification. You can simply say you didn't see anyone say that, not that "no one did", which is nonsensical considering you'd have no way of actually knowing whether or not that's true.
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Just saw your last post, JaseC64 . Not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just tired of seeing people in the thread make posts that appear to attempt to invalidate other people's experiences with discourse on this form, even if unintentional.
Yeah, the editor itself is pretty memory intensive; your system has to manage a lot more than just what's rendered in the viewport.
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Yes sorry about that and anyone else here. I apologize. Not my intention to dismiss anyone's opinion especially when I wasn't involved in additional discussions on the initial demo that went into this topic.
Glad that one of the Epic gurus put that to rest though. It's sad that he had to do it but I can see why he did and I am glad for it. People dismissing it now or were so adamant about it need to be brought down to reality from time to time.
I glossed over the video, but does he mention the RAM requirements of the demo? Obviously it can run off an HDD when the whole level is loaded into a workstation with 64GB+ of RAM.
What kind of data streaming bandwidth is required from storage when you're running on a more typical gaming rig with 16GB?
What kind of data streaming bandwidth is required from storage when you're running on a more typical gaming rig with 16GB?
Well, fair enough. Not trying to deny anything. The concept is just absurd.
The recent demo consumed around 3GBs of RAM and 4GBs of VRAM when been built instead of ran in the editor. Storage type doesn't affect this.
This was a given, but I think Epic's messaging around what the features are was unclear (probably due to the initial reveal being a Sony partnership) and that definitely contributed to the console warring. Per the PC gamer article someone else posted above, the Epic China engineer who originally confirmed that the demo could run on PC took down his video and then Sweeney sort of dodged the question when asked about it on Twitter.
Data would still have to be swapped from storage into RAM and VRAM as the demo is progressed through. Since the demo had 100GB of data, and in the original video it took under 8 minutes to play through, this would be an average of over 200MB/s, which I presume would make it difficult for a HDD to deliver.
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For the record, I didn't think you all were being malicious or anything, I was just saying how the posts came across. But it's all good.
What dgrdsv said. The editor and a demo executable are going to have different system requirements because they're doing different things.
I remember epic saying the demo could run on a PC, also that the engine was multiplatform with lastgen systems, and that with optimization it could also work at 60 fps. At least thats what I saw here on era. Being only possible on PS5 would be odd. The miss information on twitter isn't surprising, given all the miss information put out by fake insiders on that platform.
Built demo size is ~25GB. HDDs are capable of streaming the data needed for it but SSDs are better of course - any SSD though, not necessarily the PS5 one.
Edit: I'm talking about the recent demo though, no idea how big the first one was.
Reading the replies the person said and even the responses... ah dear...