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Epic Games Reveals Epic Games Store Wave 1 Games Lineup
- Thread starter Rychu
- Start date
While bad for people outside these regions, the majority of the revenue is from NA and EU (63% if we go by Steam 2017 numbers).
No it's a different title, this one is the prequel to the original.
If exclusive games are bad, how exactly should a competitor compete in the PC space? 'Features' might be the obvious answer but the Steam Competitors thread that closed tried to argue that Steam basically had every feature someone gaming on a PC could want. Serious question what is left?
I don't agree with the exclusivity either but I think it's a much more different situation than that. Fortnite is one of the biggest gaming phenomenons right now and many people have the client installed to play Fortnite. GoG doesn't have something like that.
Yes, and 37% is not small, actually. Even the SteamSpy guy said this:
They're not only losing potential revenue, but also screwing lots of people.
And there it is. Of course someone would justify this.
"Competition" is good only when it's against Steam, it seems.
By building a walled garden with forced exclusives, all of which are indies, so if this all thing fails they're the ones to be hit first. Such a good guy.
It's also competing with EA, Ubisoft, GOG, Windows, and Itch.io.
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Who knows. I assumed so as this was originally announced but it seems they are really investing on it HARD.
Well, at least in promotion and money-hatting exclusives. Anything beside making the service actually good, apparently.
Eh, i meant that's not unfair competition since the others can just as well follow suit without being put in dire straits.
Yes, because ALL the indie devs complaining today were the exact same ones complaining back then.
You admit to knowing there's an issue yet your response is to mock those suffering from it today. Incredible.
And no, the problem isn't 'self-inflicted'. it could have been easily ameliorated ages ago by Valve providing a more generous cut.
Spend less time defending a multi-billion dollar corp and more time being empathetic to the travails of indie publishers.
Well, at a baseline, it could have those features? If I want to use my Switch Pro controller or Dualshock 4 on your game, don't make me run it through Steam anyway. The solution to your lack of features should not be "everyone has Steam/discord/reddit/ a phone and cause use that" as a primary defense. That's like a Nintendo approach to this sort of stuff. It isn't like the features being exclusive is the reason they are good. Having something like a refund system set up should be common sense and EA, GoG, and Steam share that feature.
There's also things like price. Uplay has prospered because they frequently work with partners to make their Uplay versions cheaper than it would be on Steam. In the case of Epic Game Store, the bigger developer cut could theoretically. They also do things like their points gimmick where you can "buy" their bonus items on games or 20 percent discounts. Or do things like have better preloads, which steam still sucks at.
A place like Epic could also probably compete on the crossplay front. They have a lot of weight in that arena and Sony and Xbox have a lot more incentive to work with them than they do with Valve.
There's a ton of ways a store can compete and evolved.
Epic could (and probably already is) also flat out just fund more stuff that might be exlcusive to PC (or at least heavily favor PC, like an isometric action RPG currently in early access). This is an easy way to outpace Valve, who are far too hands off. Sure, that leads to exlcusive games, but I personally would not mind seeing one of these giants push the platform a bit more beyond a sporadic release or too. They could easily fund the "next Crysis."
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MS could make it more and more "difficult" to run traditional Windows API (Win32) executables on Windows in the future.
I assume they haven't announced any sort of improvements to their bare bones client.
This sucks for those looking to play the game on platforms/launchers it was advertised on before it was yanked at the last possible minute. There are ways to do exclusives, such as funding your own games or, at the least, making deals as early in advance as possible. This is not the way to do it, especially for a store looking to engender goodwill early on.
And before the tide of "What's the difference if you buy it on Steam or Epic Store? It's all on PC, lul" posts, I'll explain why I (and I assume many others) feel like it matters.
1) Loyalty to Steam and Valve for pulling PC gaming out of the niche downward spiral of the early 2000s. Like was said in other threads, while Epic jumped to Xbox to make exclusive console games, Valve revitalized the PC market, created a huge platform for indies, and helped fight piracy by making a storefront easier to use than just stealing the games (and offering them at sale prices I still lament and miss.)
It's okay if you don't care about this. Valve isn't "owed" anyone's loyalty. But it makes sense for some of us to feel it, at least a little bit.
2) Steam support for Linux, giving a bunch of people access to titles they'd otherwise be unable to play. This doesn't personally affect me, but I respect the hell out of it.
3) Steam VR being an open platform. Again, doesn't affect me, but I love this.
4) Supporting sale of Steam keys on other sites while not taking a cut. This helps keep prices down while still allowing me to own titles on my preferred platform/storefront.
5) Built-in community features. Steam is where the vast majority of my PC gaming friends are. Yes, I can add them on other platforms, but no one keeps all of their launchers open at all times. Many, myself obviously included, keep Steam open as their central hub. It also has built-in groups, although I use that more rarely.
6) Steam Controller support. While many aren't fond of it, the Steam Controller is my main PC controller. I love how easy it is to remap keys and adjust sensitivity in games that don't natively support it. Along those same lines,
7) Ability to remap buttons and adjust sensitivity on Xbox, Playstation and Steam controllers. This has been a godsend not only for allowing players to use any controller on modern games, but also for allowing them to play older titles that have iffy controller/joystick support with ease. It was a lifesaver when I played Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, for example.
8) Steam in-home streaming and Steam Link. It's so convenient for me to get the "comfy couch" experience while not having a second PC or a giant HDMI cable going through my house.
9) Steam forums. Yes, there is some toxicity, for sure. But it's also been responsible for surfacing fixes on a multitude of games I had issues with over the years, as well as informing me of titles that no longer work on modern platforms. Yes, I could have found this elsewhere, but having it built in makes it significantly more convenient for me to look into something (literally right clicking my game and clicking to the forum page.)
And those recommending Reddit as a less toxic alternative are kidding themselves. Yes, a good community can be created there with great moderation. But at that point you are trading having to moderate your Steam forum for moderating off-launcher, which is essentially the same for you but less convenient for players.
10) Auto updates. Yes, stores all now support this, but Steam helped introduce it. And, because it's my main platform (for reasons stated here and because I have, by far, the majority of my collection on it), it's the only one that keeps my games updated regularly. I can't count the number of times I went to play an EA game and had to wait for a giant patch before I could. I don't have that problem on Steam.
I'm aware this is a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing -- Steam is my main, so its games stay updated; it's my main in part because my games will stay updated -- but it's also the reality for me.
11) Regional pricing. Again, not something that affects me strongly -- I'm Canadian, so we have it but it's not a big swing one way or the other -- but it does affect a lot of people. When games cost triple in comparison to the average income than they do in the States, that really sucks.
And I honestly could go on, but I think my point is clear. For many, it's not "the same thing" as long as a game can physically be played on your PC. If you don't care about any of the above, that's fine. But don't act like people who do care are just silly fanboys if they do.
Edit: I also forgot about the importance of Steam Refunds for consumers, and how Steam Workshop made discovering and implementing mods easier than ever before. I told you I could go on! XD But I felt these two in particular were too important not to mention.
And before the tide of "What's the difference if you buy it on Steam or Epic Store? It's all on PC, lul" posts, I'll explain why I (and I assume many others) feel like it matters.
1) Loyalty to Steam and Valve for pulling PC gaming out of the niche downward spiral of the early 2000s. Like was said in other threads, while Epic jumped to Xbox to make exclusive console games, Valve revitalized the PC market, created a huge platform for indies, and helped fight piracy by making a storefront easier to use than just stealing the games (and offering them at sale prices I still lament and miss.)
It's okay if you don't care about this. Valve isn't "owed" anyone's loyalty. But it makes sense for some of us to feel it, at least a little bit.
2) Steam support for Linux, giving a bunch of people access to titles they'd otherwise be unable to play. This doesn't personally affect me, but I respect the hell out of it.
3) Steam VR being an open platform. Again, doesn't affect me, but I love this.
4) Supporting sale of Steam keys on other sites while not taking a cut. This helps keep prices down while still allowing me to own titles on my preferred platform/storefront.
5) Built-in community features. Steam is where the vast majority of my PC gaming friends are. Yes, I can add them on other platforms, but no one keeps all of their launchers open at all times. Many, myself obviously included, keep Steam open as their central hub. It also has built-in groups, although I use that more rarely.
6) Steam Controller support. While many aren't fond of it, the Steam Controller is my main PC controller. I love how easy it is to remap keys and adjust sensitivity in games that don't natively support it. Along those same lines,
7) Ability to remap buttons and adjust sensitivity on Xbox, Playstation and Steam controllers. This has been a godsend not only for allowing players to use any controller on modern games, but also for allowing them to play older titles that have iffy controller/joystick support with ease. It was a lifesaver when I played Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, for example.
8) Steam in-home streaming and Steam Link. It's so convenient for me to get the "comfy couch" experience while not having a second PC or a giant HDMI cable going through my house.
9) Steam forums. Yes, there is some toxicity, for sure. But it's also been responsible for surfacing fixes on a multitude of games I had issues with over the years, as well as informing me of titles that no longer work on modern platforms. Yes, I could have found this elsewhere, but having it built in makes it significantly more convenient for me to look into something (literally right clicking my game and clicking to the forum page.)
And those recommending Reddit as a less toxic alternative are kidding themselves. Yes, a good community can be created there with great moderation. But at that point you are trading having to moderate your Steam forum for moderating off-launcher, which is essentially the same for you but less convenient for players.
10) Auto updates. Yes, stores all now support this, but Steam helped introduce it. And, because it's my main platform (for reasons stated here and because I have, by far, the majority of my collection on it), it's the only one that keeps my games updated regularly. I can't count the number of times I went to play an EA game and had to wait for a giant patch before I could. I don't have that problem on Steam.
I'm aware this is a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing -- Steam is my main, so its games stay updated; it's my main in part because my games will stay updated -- but it's also the reality for me.
11) Regional pricing. Again, not something that affects me strongly -- I'm Canadian, so we have it but it's not a big swing one way or the other -- but it does affect a lot of people. When games cost triple in comparison to the average income than they do in the States, that really sucks.
And I honestly could go on, but I think my point is clear. For many, it's not "the same thing" as long as a game can physically be played on your PC. If you don't care about any of the above, that's fine. But don't act like people who do care are just silly fanboys if they do.
Edit: I also forgot about the importance of Steam Refunds for consumers, and how Steam Workshop made discovering and implementing mods easier than ever before. I told you I could go on! XD But I felt these two in particular were too important not to mention.
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At least Epic is trying indies can make more money selling less units. Valve is only interested that AAA companies come back.
I think different game launchers and other stuff people are pointing out as bad aren't really that important. I don't care about these things.
The disappointing stuff is that, by locking it exclusively to a store, it removes any kind of competition, so we won't have better prices and services as a way to attract consumers. So yeah, this is literally the opposite of competition.
The only competition Epic has created is relevant to devs only, since now they have a choice between a better store paying them better. This is cool and I like it, but not expanding the same market competition to consumers is not ideal and probably won't get them a good result to be quite honest.
I, for now, will avoid using the Epic Game Store because the lack of regional pricing, dollars are too expensive here in my country.
The disappointing stuff is that, by locking it exclusively to a store, it removes any kind of competition, so we won't have better prices and services as a way to attract consumers. So yeah, this is literally the opposite of competition.
The only competition Epic has created is relevant to devs only, since now they have a choice between a better store paying them better. This is cool and I like it, but not expanding the same market competition to consumers is not ideal and probably won't get them a good result to be quite honest.
I, for now, will avoid using the Epic Game Store because the lack of regional pricing, dollars are too expensive here in my country.
From developers' perspective, I think launching initially in the store that asks less royalties makes sense.
Sellings are often good in firsts weeks so they cash more leaving it initially in Epic store and launch it later on the other stores.
Sellings are often good in firsts weeks so they cash more leaving it initially in Epic store and launch it later on the other stores.
People cheering for a walled garden make me scratch my head. Competition in theory is good, but this kind of competition only makes it worse for consumers. This is just a lazy way of competing and the lack of better features at launch for the Epic store shows that. Games locked to one walled garden don't get discounted as much or as often. This kind of competition doesn't bring any added value for the consumer, there's nothing to be gained from this.
Are you really comparing an indie game with a limited budget in both development and marketing to Coca Cola?
People have been conditioned to think that the bullshit practices on closed-platforms like consoles are somehow normal and acceptable. They're not.
What are you even talking about? I said none of those games interest me enough to take up another ecosystem.
Not surprisng, we're going to see a lot of indies double down on Epic's platform because the money split is so much better than Steam. It doesn't help that Valve's response to Epic's split is straight up insulting to devs because it boils down to "Make all of your sales through us and we'll give you more of your money."
I'm comparing selling a product on only one store to selling it everywhere you can.
Not sure what's so hard to grasp.
I was under the impression the monetization changes to Steam were made shortly before Epic announced their store, but I may have my timeline wrong.
They were, but just because it hadn't been announced doesn't mean Valve didn't know.
Nothing to grasp in the fantastical analogy you presented. Makes no sense and doesn't apply here.
Indie devs and games aren't Coca Cola. Your flawed logic should have ended there.
They're not comparing the products, or even the companies. The comparison is to the leverage of "economy of scale." Yes, you can make more per sale by only selling a product at a store that gives you the biggest cut. But you make many, many more sales if you sell your product in the largest amount of places (and, therefore, to the largest number of consumers) possible.
Jesus Christ. Forget fucking Coca-Cola. Are you just pretending to miss the point or it comes as a natural talent?
Let's chance analogy. Let's just say you are small brand making shampoo and you have to choose if selling it just on a supermarket chain (i.e. Wallmart) because it offers you 10 cents more for bottle or to sell it everywhere they'll be willing to put it on the shelves.
You asked specifically (paraphrasing) "Why would anyone want to sell their game on a store that pays slightly less than the other when they can have a bigger cut"?
150 million more users being potentially exposed to it is why.
- I'm 100% sure those devs didn't jusr decide to not release on Steam and lose on those sales. I'm pretty sure this is an Epic deal. What do Epic care about putting indies at risk to boost up their stores?
- The problem with Steam was discoverability, because the platform is so ubiquitous. Most devs probably agreed because of the publicity being the first on the store brings.
- Small idies can't jump to the Epic store, because it's 100% curated right now and there isn't even a clear process to get in. SO while the better cut for devs is nice, it's also irrelevant for most indies.