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Epic Games Store changes its refund policy to match Steam's, adds local pricing (on some countries)

Oct 28, 2017
3,994
Belgium
Uhhh their website and their twitter accounts said they were doing this when this whole new initiative was announced, and here we are a month later and they're starting to make good. People really lose their minds at the thought of Steam having competition, huh?
Oh come on. Epic knew what Steams policies about refunds were, yet they chose to limit it to two games a year. They've got plenty of shit for that and now they've matched Steams policy.

What happened here is Epic having competition from Steam, not the other way around.

And no, no one is losing their minds at the thought of Steam having competition. Pc gamers are getting tired that "competition" only means that they are forced to use bare bones launchers without any advantage over Steam because of exclusivity deals. Do you actually expect us to celebrate the loss of features like user reviews or cheap keys in 3rd party keystores?
 
Jun 7, 2018
567
What's ASTONISHING for me is people who actually think that to compete with a 15 old and well established service is perfectly fine to match its features when it started (and then EVENTUALLY improve things) rather than offering something that is genuinely better and makes the new thing feel like the more appealing option.
Have pity on poor Epic why don't you, they're obviously a rookie startup company with no cash to spare, they're learning. BABY STEPS!.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
I don't understand the complaints about Epic Game Store exclusivity, Valve doesn't release their games on other storefronts.
Factually false. Valve released their games on Origin until EA pulled out and Steam, and sold their games on Ubisoft until when Ubisoft stopped selling third party games.
Bad shitpost, try again
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,114
Uhhh their website and their twitter accounts said they were doing this when this whole new initiative was announced, and here we are a month later and they're starting to make good. People really lose their minds at the thought of Steam having competition, huh?
someone at epic detailed their wip refund policy in december, and it wasn't this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
927
What's ASTONISHING for me is people who actually think that to compete with a 15 old and well established service is perfectly fine to match its features when it started (and then EVENTUALLY improve things) rather than offering something that is genuinely better and makes the new thing feel like the more appealing option.
BUT IT'S COMPETITION.

On a related note, I hope everybody rushes out to the store to buy my series of sub 480i black and white 13 inch televisions that cost $2000. I'm just starting out after all, you couldn't expect me to compete with the big manufacturers.
 
Jun 7, 2018
567
Wait, what? I don't remember that at all and I was pretty aware of the Origin launch
Yep, HL2, Portal and other Valve games were sold on Uplay and Origin, then Ubisoft stopped third party game sales on Uplay and EA soured their relationship with Valve.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,272
All right looks like they're going for it. Steam's refund system is one of the best things about it, to me. And we know that's for people in some regions, the regional pricing is the most important thing. So the priorities are in line.

Lol at trying to act like the job is done, though. Steam still offers a slew of other benefits.

Like I have no idea this is joking or not vvv
I was legit asking because everytime someone mentionned issues with the Epic Games store it was always and only the refund system and the regional pricing.
 
Oct 31, 2017
1,820
BUT IT'S COMPETITION.

On a related note, I hope everybody rushes out to the store to buy my series of sub 480i black and white 13 inch televisions that cost $2000. I'm just starting out after all, you couldn't expect me to compete with the big manufacturers.
Right? You hear it all the times.

"Uh, actually, Steam in 2003..."
I don't give a shit. We aren't in 2003 anymore. If you want to look better in the comparison, try to BE better.

If you'll need to slowly catch up as the months go, then fuck off into oblivion. Come back when the months will be gone and the improvements will be there already.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,394
The butthurt over Epic Store is a sight to behold.

Anyway next step is probably attaching exclusive Fortnite specific skins to games, or something similar.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,654
I was legit asking because everytime someone mentionned issues with the Epic Games store it was always and only the refund system and the regional pricing.
There are lots of features that are missing from Epic that are currently on Steam and other game launchers. It's just regional pricing and refunding were at the top of the list.

And Sergey's previous announcement of 2 refunds per year max met with a whole lot of negative criticism on not just here but throughout social media.
 
Jul 14, 2018
1,622
It seems to have some good prices now (a bit better than Steam I think), but I'm finding the store UI to be stupidly counterintuitive. Where's the search button?
 
Oct 18, 2018
290
Europe
Good to see that Steam is keeping other trashy, quickly cobbled together stores on their toes and forcing them to better themselves. Maybe one day one of them will actually come up with something unique instead of just copying and trying to not fall behind further.
 
Oct 25, 2017
143
Tbh while I agree that Epic Games Store has a lot of problems, it's getting obnoxious seeing the main bunch of people arguing that it is act as if Steam is blameless in this. Even with "moneyhats", developers wouldn't be so keen to to ditch Steam if Valve actually gave a shit about supporting developers rather than leaving the decision of if their games get highlighted on their store up to dodgy algorithms that can be changed at any time.

Like, posting images that paint developers as some "master race" and customers as peasants while acting as if they're being stupid to leave Steam's 90 million monthly users who their games aren't visible to isn't some incredible infallible argument y'all.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,994
Belgium
This is a start. Now, the money shot:

Will I be able to buy Epic launcher games from other locations than the Epic store any time soon?
Epic's Launcher currently doesn't support game keys. They'll probably add this for review purposes etc, so we'll have to wait and see if reselling is allowed.

I was legit asking because everytime someone mentionned issues with the Epic Games store it was always and only the refund system and the regional pricing.
That's not exactly true. It was also about taking away our free choice where to buy and play 3rd party pc games, and missing features like cheap game keys, offline mode, user reviews, family sharing etc.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,155
I was legit asking because everytime someone mentionned issues with the Epic Games store it was always and only the refund system and the regional pricing.
I'm not sure if you were legit asking. But I know for sure there's far more than refund system and regional pricing that has been mentionned.
In fact people even made images to sum up the whole thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,272
No one mentioned 3rd party moneyhat exclusivity.? I find that hard to believe.
That's not an issue with the launcher/client itself tho

That's not exactly true. It was also about taking away our free choice where to buy and play 3rd party pc games, and missing features like cheap game keys, offline mode, user reviews, family sharing etc.
You can't play offline with the Epic launcher ? Seems like a pretty big flaw alright, alongside the other stuff I bolded. The other part aren't features of a launcher though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,654
Nice. Hopefully it's just a matter of time until steam lowers their cut to compete. 30% is ridiculous and always has been.
Steam did lower their cut towards successfully financial games whether they're from indie developers or big publishers. How bout we have Google, Apple, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, and GOG respond as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
870
The number one reason there are so many people against the Epic Store is the bullshit practice of paying developers for exclusivity to their store, even going as far as removing planned releases on other platforms. This is simply intolerable, and should be rejected by the community.

Before that it was just another client/store significantly lacking in features, much like a lot of other supposed competitors on the platform. Personally, I don't mind using other clients/storefronts, as long as they provide something of value. I have hundreds of games on GOG for example. At this moment in time I was mildly excited to see what Epic could do.

But then the news of their exclusivity bullshit came to light, and they became a danger to the platform, and created a hypocrite in TIm Sweeney at that. These improvements ultimately mean little to me if they're going to continue those practices.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,994
Belgium
Tbh while I agree that Epic Games Store has a lot of problems, it's getting obnoxious seeing the main bunch of people arguing that it is act as if Steam is blameless in this. Even with "moneyhats", developers wouldn't be so keen to to ditch Steam if Valve actually gave a shit about supporting developers rather than leaving the decision of if their games get highlighted on their store up to dodgy algorithms that can be changed at any time.

Like, posting images that paint developers as some "master race" and customers as peasants while acting as if they're being stupid to leave Steam's 90 million monthly users who their games aren't visible to isn't some incredible infallible argument y'all.
You may have been right, if this was an issue for ANY of the devs who accepted Epic's moneyhat. We both know it isn't...
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,504
When did it stop being good.



No idea but then again I would pay no mind to all these anti competition pro monopoly people

So I just checked and I'm pretty sure every single store displayed in that Pic simply sells you a Steam Key. Which isn't suprising because I'm pretty sure Monster Hunter World is a Steam Exclusive on PC? Soooo...platform exclusivity is actually OK as long as you can buy the codes for the platform you have to use somewhere else, too? But, ignoring that:

This picture is so endlessly frustrating because it's clearly made and posted by people who wilfully ignore the actual arguments and discussions taking place. When talking about Epic Store being good for competition, people are not talking about singular games but the industry as a whole Another Store that actually has a chance in rivaling Steam is good for competition between video game stores, as Steam will be forced to reevaluate many of their decisions in light of a legit competitor driving down their numbers, in turn benefiting both customers and developers. Because even though Steam is not a Monopoly, it still doesn't have any noteworthy competition on the market that would force them to reevaluate their business practices or, well...compete with anyone. If Epic manages to turn into that legit competitor thanks to deals like this, then yes, it is indeed good for the competition and breaking up the absolute indescribable and undeniable power a single company holds over all of the PC gaming industry.

The fact that Epic Store is a worse experience with less features from the get go compared to a platform like Steam that has been operating and been expanding for over a decade is as undeniable as it is inevitable. We already knew from Epic that many of those features were already planned and promised to be coming soon. It's good to see they seem to be holding these promises.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
4,155
That's not an issue with the launcher/client itself tho



You can't play offline with the Epic launcher ? Seems like a pretty big flaw alright, alongside the other stuff I bolded. The other part aren't features of a launcher though.
They are. 3rd party keys come from a policy from Steamworks, which is the backend used by Steam as a launcher, basically allowing devs to freely generate Steam keys for free and sell them anywhere at full profit for the dev or any cut they deem good enough if another store gives them a better deal.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,629
I was legit asking because everytime someone mentionned issues with the Epic Games store it was always and only the refund system and the regional pricing.
There's a pretty solid list of major features. I think the regional pricing and the refunds probably were the top two, on balance. So that's why I was happy to see that they were going for that first. After those, major features still include controller support, developer generated steam keys, the extraordinary Linux support, 10 foot interface... might be some more depending on your priorities, but those are my top ones. And then after that there's just a laundry list of smaller things and back and things.

Of course, not everyone uses everything. But there's so much stuff. People been posting those infographics with all the features and those are accurate for the most part.
 
Oct 25, 2017
143
You may have been right, if this was an issue for ANY of the devs who accepted Epic's moneyhat. We both know it isn't...
It is though. Ubisoft and Telltale's stuff aside, even the games from bigger independent studios that have become exclusive to Epic Games Store run the risk of not being visible on Steam's store with the way it works right now. It makes sense for them to take Epic's deals when there's a pretty big chance of them not selling well enough on Steam to be financially secure in the future.
 
Jan 28, 2018
2,073
I don't understand the complaints about Epic Game Store exclusivity, Valve doesn't release their games on other storefronts.
Exactly THEIR games, Epic Games have NO GAMES other than Fortnite and UT4.
We have no problems when they release their OWN games on their OWN store, there's a problem when they moneyhat 3rd party games with 12 months exclusivity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,393
Good start, Epic. Now, allow external key generation for free, and stop paying for third parties to not put their games elsewhere on timed exclusivity deals and you'll actually be on the right path to make something worthwhile.

You'll still be shit compared to the competition, but at least you won't be actively hostile any more.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,077
Yes.

The fact that Steam had far better consumer support (Regional pricing and refunds) has made Epic update their store to match the market leader.

That is the effect of competition. If Epic want to compete, this is a good first step. If they want to outdo Steam, they need to embrace the consumer friendly tools that so far they're refusing to consider.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,994
Belgium
If Epic manages to turn into that legit competitor thanks to deals like this, then yes, it is indeed good for the competition and breaking up the absolute indescribable and undeniable power a single company holds over all of the PC gaming industry.
This is where I strongly disagree with you. Buying store exclusivity isn't turning Epic's store in a better storefront than Steam. Offering better features, policies and prices for consumers is.

And so far, Epic isn't doing any of this, nor have they communicated any plans to do so. Only thing we know is that they'll play catch up with some of Steam's basic features. But meanwhile they are taking away our choice where to buy and play certain 3rd party games. Is it so unreasonable to dislike this?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,851
I'm from Argentina, a country that's currently going through pretty hard economic times. I can tell you that I don't feel "saved" by Epic's changes (which are very minor in comparison to what I've been enjoying on Steam for more than a year now). But who cares, we all know most of the people applauding Epic on this don't have a horse in this race and just want more ammo for their Steam vs Epic console war-style bullcrap.
Argentina does appear to be a significant outlier in benefitting from local Steam prices compared to other regions.

https://steamdb.info/app/750920/

Yeah, I can understand folks from Argentina and a few other places like Russia or Turkey not being impressed with Epic’s offering yet.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Good start, Epic. Now, allow external key generation for free, and stop paying for third parties to not put their games elsewhere on timed exclusivity deals and you'll actually be on the right path to make something worthwhile.
Also a review system that developers cannot opt out off, and a proper forum system so people can actually get some support and fixes, instead of having to go to the steam forums to get that instead. That Subnautica and Ashen owners had to use the steam forums to ask for fixes and support shows how pathetic it is to not have community boards.
 
Jun 7, 2018
567
Nice. Hopefully it's just a matter of time until steam lowers their cut to compete. 30% is ridiculous and always has been.
I trust you'll be boycotiing Sony and Microsoft in order to put pressure on them to lower their 30% cut too? Or is just ridiculous because it's Valve?

Yes.

The fact that Steam had far better consumer support (Regional pricing and refunds) has made Epic update their store to match the market leader.

That is the effect of competition. If Epic want to compete, this is a good first step. If they want to outdo Steam, they need to embrace the consumer friendly tools that so far they're refusing to consider.
What if Steam and Valve start buying up exclusivity of their own now? What if Valve closes their VR API away from games using Epic launcher?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,018
Competition means the end result should be better for consumers, right?

How is a less feature complete storefront that is years behind in robustness and only matching existing policies while reducing the options from where consumers can get their games actually better for consumers again? The only incentive I see here for Valve (and other competitors like Origin these threads always love to forget already exist) is to start locking up games of their own, fragmenting their releases and not in fact coming up with innovations that benefit us and push them ahead of the rest.

But "competition" I guess... lmao.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,632
I trust you'll be boycotiing Sony and Microsoft in order to put pressure on them to lower their 30% cut too? Or is just ridiculous because it's Valve?



What if Steam and Valve start buying up exclusivity of their own now? What if Valve closes their VR API away from games using Epic launcher?
Maybe it is ridiculous and console manufactures should follow suit or at least try and lower that %
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,629
I don't think 30% is ridiculous at all. I do think it's weird how it became a standard, though. You'd think more of the major stores would be varying a little bit up or down.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,393
Competition means the end result should be better for consumers, right?

How is a less feature complete storefront that is years behind in robustness and only matching existing policies while reducing the options from where consumers can get their games actually better for consumers again?

But "competition" I guess... lmao.
And you'll get swarms of people on here claiming we always had issues with competition, even though they have never read any of our arguments about how reducing choice isn't competition to begin with. You can see them in here trying to go "see, competition is good" as if they have proven fucking anything.

Epic being forced to improve their refunds policy because of their rivals is how competition is actually meant to work. Paying to reduce consumer choice anti-thesis of that.