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Epic Games Store Exclusive "Tetris Effect" Requires SteamVR to run in VR mode

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Drek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
895
I think it's plain and clear that Valve is heavily invested in ensuring that the PC remains a healthy and open gaming platform for the foreseeable future. Their entire business model revolves around it.

Epic, on the other hand, has a much broader focus. I suspect that they make the majority of their revenue from consoles and mobile now. So I am not entirely sure what their long term goal for EGS is (or if one even exists). Selling a small number of heavily curated AA indie games at a 12% cut doesn't sound very profitable compared to their other ventures.
Mobile maybe but their PC base for Fortnite is supposedly massive if the original PR for EGS is accurate. It is also the place where all transactions are free of platform holder fees.

Not really surprising why they were the ones spearheading cross platform play when you consider that. Anyone they can get to buy on PC to then play on PS4/Xbox/Switch are helping Epic circumvent the first party royalty.

I seem to recall some comment that was made/leaked from them recently that the 12% thing wasn't even remotely sustainable. I'd imagine they're just trying to carve out enough of a presence to make a permanent place for themselves.

Probably my biggest concern would be them getting to that point, pulling back on the overt paid exclusives, but replacing it with a modified UE licensing scheme that effectively encourages the same end.
 

Miller

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,001
I get "mod-whining" as a general rule, whether I agree with it or not, but "repeated hostility throughout the thread"? Have we followed the same thread? It was more like "repeatedly educating the unaware".
I'm assuming there was a mod note on that post that has been removed, because I don't see one now.

"Repeated hostility throughout the thread" is indeed an unfair characterization of Krejlooc's posts here, in my opinion, if that's what was said. I find his insight into this matter to be invaluable.
 

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,559
I'm assuming there was a mod note on that post that has been removed, because I don't see one now.

"Repeated hostility throughout the thread" is indeed an unfair characterization of Krejlooc's posts here, in my opinion, if that's what was said. I find his insight into this matter to be invaluable.
Yeah, they removed the mod message. It was something like "Mod whining, hostility to other members in the thread, history of similar actions".

Which is, to borrow your words, a completely unfair characterization of his posts.
 

City 17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
428
Ah, the classic “Someone deliberately gets on your nerves more and more until you get banned for rightfully going off on them” trick.

It’s practically an initiation on this forum tbh
It's a loophole, not unlike the situation with lootboxes and gambling. Though I think a forum can be way more flexible towards it than a book of law.

I'm assuming there was a mod note on that post that has been removed, because I don't see one now.

"Repeated hostility throughout the thread" is indeed an unfair characterization of Krejlooc's posts here, in my opinion, if that's what was said. I find his insight into this matter to be invaluable.
Yep, been removed just now. I've been a mod on another forum with 1M users, sometimes when you're going to make a good case for a ban, you happen to overdo it.
 

UsoEwin

Banned
Jul 14, 2018
2,063
User Banned (Permanent): Hostility Towards Staff and a History of Similar Behavior; Numerous Prior Bans for Inflammatory Posting
Wow, what a shit show. How fucking dumb can you mods be?
 

Cth

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
415
Just for information purposes since it was raised earlier in the thread..


[..] 13 full time employees were let go and a portion of our contractor agreements were terminated.

[..] an anonymous Valve employee. “They fired like half the Valve hardware team recently ... Wonder how long it’ll be until the remainder get the Jerry treatment,” it reads — possibly a misspelled reference to Jeri Ellsworth, the veteran Valve hardware designer who was fired in 2013 after Valve decided it wanted to focus on VR instead of the AR headset she’d been championing. Valve’s only known hardware projects are VR devices and the aging Steam Controller; it discontinued the Steam Link box last year.
So, anywhere from 6-13 full time employees were working on VR at Steam given the hardware projects they're developing.

It may have been more since the project was started in 2015. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Corporation#Virtual_reality)

BONUS EDIT:
Software Engineer for VR & Hardware
Valve Software – Bellevue, WA
$117K-$193K (Glassdoor est.)
5 days ago
 

Seik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,183
Québec City
I'm assuming there was a mod note on that post that has been removed, because I don't see one now.

"Repeated hostility throughout the thread" is indeed an unfair characterization of Krejlooc's posts here, in my opinion, if that's what was said. I find his insight into this matter to be invaluable.
The ban note was just removed at this instant...perhaps the mod team is reevaluating the ban.

Personally I think the context validated his heated responses to some. Saying you're racist against China because you don't like EGS is some very dumb shit to post. Especially when you take as much time as Krejlooc to elaborate on your points.
 

Raccoon

Member
May 31, 2019
1,214
I'm assuming there was a mod note on that post that has been removed, because I don't see one now.

"Repeated hostility throughout the thread" is indeed an unfair characterization of Krejlooc's posts here, in my opinion, if that's what was said. I find his insight into this matter to be invaluable.
“mod-whining and repeated hostility throughout the thread + long history of hostility against other members”
 

BaconHat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,699
It was just removed at this instant...perhaps the mod team is reevaluating the ban.

Personally I think the context validated his heated responses to some. Saying you're racist against China because you don't like EGS is some very dumb shit to post.
Yeah, especially since it seemed the other poster was ignoring him being angry at that insinuation for quite a number of replies.
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
776
I get "mod-whining" as a general rule, whether I agree with it or not, but "repeated hostility throughout the thread"? Have we followed the same thread? It was more like "repeatedly educating the unaware".
Removing a ban from an original post because the community disagrees and replacing it instantly with the same ban on another unrelated post seems kinda shady.
Everyone should be allowed to defend themselves when someone calls you a racist and keeps spreading blatant lies without getting even a warning for that.

I really hope Krejlooc will return and keeps trying to explain correlations in Steam topics because it seems like most others (myself included) already gave up to withstand the constant trolling here. I'm amazed that he endured this long and I salute him.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,038
I'm assuming there was a mod note on that post that has been removed, because I don't see one now.

"Repeated hostility throughout the thread" is indeed an unfair characterization of Krejlooc's posts here, in my opinion, if that's what was said. I find his insight into this matter to be invaluable.
"User banned (1 week): mod-whining and repeated hostility throughout the thread + long history of hostility against other members"
 
Explanation about the OP's ban

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
12,590
Official Staff Communication
Krejlooc was banned because they were repeatedly hostile and aggressive, telling users to "fuck off" and "fuck you" numerous times, some of which were made even after that member apologized:
You know what, fuck you for trying to imply my complaints about the EGS are somehow rooted in racism. I have never, ever once implied this or that it's a problem with china.
Also, you're not even going to try and apologize for the implication that I'm a racist? Fuck you again.
I know you're reading my posts, btw. Fuck you AGAIN for refusing to even edit our your implication.
Their implication on page fucking 1 is still there, I don't really give a shit about a non-apology that boils down to "sorry if you were offended" on page 4.
Official Staff Communication
This is not something that can be ignored, especially for a member with a long history of hostility. If you have an issue with a post, report it. Further derailment and modwhining will not be tolerated, so please get back on topic. If you have any further concerns, please reach out to mod captains.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,061
I never quoted you specifically or called you a racist, so I opted not to inflame that take further by including it in the quotes, but okay? You're not a racist. Sorry if you thought I called you one, that was not the intent.
Sorry
It's definitely not the case that anyone else complaining about EGS has ever mentioned china, so it would be absurd for me to suggest it was involved in anyone's personal politics here.
But I was right to do so because somewhere at some point, someone had that agenda.

Is now an apology. EGS thread do are another dimension I guess.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
Valve: We've put in quite a lot of work to make SteamVR a good standard for most titles, and we support most headsets/also support the more open alternative if you'd like to go that route, but we'd really like you to just use SteamVR if you'd like to put your VR games on Stea-

Epic: *uses SteamVR for EGS games*

Valve:
Epic:

Valve: ay wtf

Epic: Go on, say we can't use it

Valve: That defeats the entire point of the API

Epic: lol time for some Tetris, have you seen this shit

I think it's pretty shitty to leverage their tech like that, especially when they already do OpenVR too, like come on
 

sauce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
412
Just for information purposes since it was raised earlier in the thread..




So, anywhere from 6-13 full time employees were working on VR at Steam given the hardware projects they're developing.

It may have been more since the project was started in 2015. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Corporation#Virtual_reality)

BONUS EDIT:
Software Engineer for VR & Hardware
Valve Software – Bellevue, WA
$117K-$193K (Glassdoor est.)
5 days ago
SteamVR isn't hardware, it's software. We don't know how many engineers are still maintaining their VR code base.

And they literally just made the Index.

edit: this entire article was debunked later anyway.
 
Last edited:

Raccoon

Member
May 31, 2019
1,214
another problem with epic is their pr, which really compounds with the business practices

y’know if tim sweeney were here I’d say “don’t push your luck, or you’ll get banned from twitter”
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
I really don't see where the people that kepe citing business concerns are coming from.

Do they own Epic stock or something?

We're gamers. We're consumers. How on earth is the store that has made PC gaming what it is today, and for the better, not a priority over heavy-handed tactics from EGS that do absolutely NOTHING for us, the consumer?
 

deadman322

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,285
I really don't see where the people that kepe citing business concerns are coming from.

Do they own Epic stock or something?

We're gamers. We're consumers. How on earth is the store that has made PC gaming what it is today, and for the better, not a priority over heavy-handed tactics from EGS that do absolutely NOTHING for us, the consumer?
many are just upset that valve hasn't released half life 3.
 

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,646
Argentina
I really don't see where the people that kepe citing business concerns are coming from.

Do they own Epic stock or something?

We're gamers. We're consumers. How on earth is the store that has made PC gaming what it is today, and for the better, not a priority over heavy-handed tactics from EGS that do absolutely NOTHING for us, the consumer?
A lot of them actually dont care about PC gaming.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,770
Indonesia
This is absolutely hillarious.

Has Tim Sweeney tweeted something to convince people that they're not doing the wrong thing?

I really don't see where the people that kepe citing business concerns are coming from.

Do they own Epic stock or something?

We're gamers. We're consumers. How on earth is the store that has made PC gaming what it is today, and for the better, not a priority over heavy-handed tactics from EGS that do absolutely NOTHING for us, the consumer?
I've posted this so many times before in various Epic threads.

Sometimes I wonder if we're all consumers here in Era. Because a lot of people certainly have a totally different point of view when it comes to the Epic Store.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,513
Halifax, NS
A lot of them actually dont care about PC gaming.
I don't think it's precisely that.

It's more like Valve has made PC gaming so frictionless for a lot of people that they've legitimately forgotten what they actually have, and continue, to contribute.

This is then exploited by Epic, who successfully convinced a lot of people that Steam = storefront and Valve = game developer, and since people look at Valve not releasing many games (even though they do) and Steam as just being a "store", they don't see why Valve "needs" that 30% and that Epic is actually fighting the good fight.

Devs are picking their sides because some of them are angry, and maybe rightfully so, that they won't have the same kind of opportunity on Steam that they would have had 10 years ago, because there's so much more competition now than ever before. They see the curated EGS as their salvation because it solves that discoverability problem on the surface, and hope to be the lucky one to get picked.

For the rest who realize that "maybe" they're never getting on the EGS, pushing valve to lower their cut allows them to eeke out just a little bit more for whatever paltry sales they get.
 

Ghostwalker

Member
Oct 30, 2017
284
This is great Tim is spending tens of millions to promote SteamVR.

And if Valve are charging for or takeing a cut for the use Steam VR, to cover the technical support for devloping the game, Epic will be paying Valve to make a game an Epic Store excusive.

This is one of funniest thing I heard all day.
 

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,646
Argentina
I don't think it's precisely that.

It's more like Valve has made PC gaming so frictionless for a lot of people that they've legitimately forgotten what they actually have, and continue, to contribute.

This is then exploited by Epic, who successfully convinced a lot of people that Steam = storefront and Valve = game developer, and since people look at Valve not releasing many games (even though they do) and Steam as just being a "store", they don't see why Valve "needs" that 30% and that Epic is actually fighting the good fight.

Devs are picking their sides because some of them are angry, and maybe rightfully so, that they won't have the same kind of opportunity on Steam that they would have had 10 years ago, because there's so much more competition now than ever before. They see the curated EGS as their salvation because it solves that discoverability problem on the surface, and hope to be the lucky one to get picked.

For the rest who realize that "maybe" they're never getting on the EGS, pushing valve to lower their cut allows them to eeke out just a little bit more for whatever paltry sales they get.
I dont think Epic convinced a lot of people, EGS is far from being a success (and it shows because they changed their strategy)...anyways, i was talking about people in this thread/forum more than anything else.
 

Sailent

Member
Mar 2, 2018
1,422
There is literally an alternative from the exact same source, with the exact same feature set, that doesn't require Steam launching. You really don't see the slap in the face of paying money to keep a game off a client, but requiring that client to launch just to run the game?
Seems like every ubisoft game I bought on steam.
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,219

DaciaJC

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,657
A lot of them actually dont care about PC gaming.
^

The number of posts, not specifically in just this thread but in general on this forum, that read in effect, "Oh, I don't play on PC at all, but competition is good/Valve are too rich for their own good/Valve doesn't contribute anything to the PC community/Epic are the good guys/et cetera et cetera" is quite remarkable.
 

dabri

Member
Nov 2, 2017
904
Today I learned Epic is in control over a developers choice for what libraries it uses when sold on its store. Fantastic. Im sure that will go over well when trying to recruit companies to their storefront.

“Sorry, you can’t use this free api, available to anyone, in your software because our competition made it.”

With this logic, every game using direct x should not be allowed on Steam because of the windows store.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
Also can we all agree that the most likely turn of events was:

Tetris Effect planned for Steam, so using SteamVR
Epic comes calling
Devs don't feel like changing VR tech, so keep it on
Here we are
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
México
Today I learned Epic is in control over a developers choice for what libraries it uses when sold on its store. Fantastic. Im sure that will go over well when trying to recruit companies to their storefront.

“Sorry, you can’t use this free api, available to anyone, in your software because our competition made it.”

With this logic, every game using direct x should not be allowed on Steam because of the windows store.
Yeah, pretty much.
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,219
Also can we all agree that the most likely turn of events was:

Tetris Effect planned for Steam, so using SteamVR
Epic comes calling
Devs don't feel like changing VR tech, so keep it on
Here we are
Yes.

This is always the situation with many games that become epic exclusive.

Look at metro Exodus. Look at shenmue where they were promised steam keys.
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,219
Today I learned Epic is in control over a developers choice for what libraries it uses when sold on its store. Fantastic. Im sure that will go over well when trying to recruit companies to their storefront.

“Sorry, you can’t use this free api, available to anyone, in your software because our competition made it.”

With this logic, every game using direct x should not be allowed on Steam because of the windows store.
They don't have a choice in what the developers choose.

But it's readily apparent the game was intended for steam through the developers choice of steamVR and that epic is willing to go lengths to obtain exclusivity without developing their own features.

Look at their store. It's still bare as bones and if you take a look at the features promised, a lot has yet to be done.
 
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