Epic Games Store Exclusive "Tetris Effect" Requires SteamVR to run in VR mode

[Deleted member 12790]

For all those who post about how launching a game with the steam client makes it a "steam exclusive" and don't understand that the steam client is a bundle of fundamental technologies and is entirely divorced from Steam, the store:



Why this is even more notable is that this explicitly launches STEAMVR, not OpenVR which is a version of SteamVR (still made by Valve) that is "SteamVR without needing Steam." Instead, they literally launch SteamVR from the game. This is because a huge portion of valve's revenue intake from the last several years went into creating things like SteamVR which no other company in PC gaming has a realistic multi-headset alternative.

 

[LewieP]

If Tim Sweeney has such an objection to Valve's cut, he should not have games that rely on SteamVR's backend, which was funded by that 30% cut, on his store.

 

[Dest]

inhales
AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

 

[Lant_War]

I mean, if it's available and it works why not use it.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

I mean, if it's available and it works why not use it.

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There is literally an alternative from the exact same source, with the exact same feature set, that doesn't require Steam launching. You really don't see the slap in the face of paying money to keep a game off a client, but requiring that client to launch just to run the game?

It's also further evidence that these Epic deals come very late in the game development process if they had already integrated SteamVR into the release (because it was pretty obviously planned for a Steam release originally, until Epic paid to keep it off steam).

 

[Dest]

I mean, if it's available and it works why not use it.

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because epic says steam is bad for gamers and developers :((( except when it's convenient to them i guess. with all that fortnite money they say they have and want to invest into the platform, you'd expect them to be able to recompile the open library that SteamVR uses for their own platform but that's too hard i guess

 

[Phamit]

Wait, so this games needs steam to run, since they don't use OpenVR?

 

[Mars People]

Dohohohohoho!
This tickled me.

 

[Lant_War]

There is literally an alternative from the exact same source, with the exact same feature set, that doesn't require Steam launching. You really don't see the slap in the face of paying money to keep a game off a client, but requiring that client to launch just to run the game?

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It's ironic but again, if it worked and was available it's not an issue.

 

[LewieP]

I mean, if it's available and it works why not use it.

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Because Epic have repeatedly suggested that Valve do not earn their 30% cut, but are now benefiting from Valve's tech that they funded (and then made freely available) with that 30% cut.

Valve invest in tech that elevates all of pc gaming, Epic invest in locking others out.

Tim Sweeney is a hypocrite.

 

[spam musubi]

It's ironic but again, if it worked and was available it's not an issue.

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Where do you think the funding to develop SteamVR comes from? Hint: It's a 30% cut that a certain storefront has to develop features

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Wait, so this games needs steam to run, since they don't use OpenVR?

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Yes, and this isn't the only time this happens. UE4 itself uses SteamVR to handle it's virtual reality. For example, every single time I launch the UE4 editor with my VR headset plugged in, it automatically launches Steam because Steam handles the VR portion of UE4 for them:

 

[Keikaku]

Well that is awkward.

 

[Sean Mirrsen]

I mean, if it's available and it works why not use it.

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On the one hand, yes.

On the other, combined with the "cut criticisms" it sounds a lot like "Why does this utilities company charge so much for their service? Why, with all these powerlines and water pipes they've laid down, I could start up a new utilities company at a fraction of the cost!"

 

[eonden]

Isnt SteamVR and OpenVR the same? Why didn't they use the OpenVR fork that doesnt require Steam lol.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

It's ironic but again, if it worked and was available it's not an issue.

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It is an issue because Epic Games continues to push a narrative that the 30% cut is bad for this industry.

The same cut they are using to their advantage.

 

[Deleted member 3294]

If we're gonna be mad about this, are we also gonna be mad about games that use Unreal Engine being sold on Steam?

 

[MrCibb]

Nice. This will be a nice example to use when, for the millionth time, people need explaining that Steam is not just a storefront and Epic coming in to "save" the developers from that 70/30 split is just PR.

 

[funky]

So would you rather they not support Vive?

 

[Mars People]

It is an issue because Epic Games continues to push a narrative that the 30% cut is bad for this industry.

The same cut they are using to their advantage.

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It's almost like Epic is full of shite.

 

[City 17]

Features don't count in store wars. Give the devs another +15%, and I'm sure they'd find better solutions for everything on their own. Be it leaderboards, cloud saves, APIs, or whatever.

 

[Deleted member 1413]

Might be reading it wrong, but it says you need it for the Vive. But if you have oculus you use Oculus VR.

Edit: guess they're basically the same

 

[Deleted member 12790]

For the people saying this "isn't an issue," the drum Epic has been banging for so long was about how unfair the 30% cut is to developers, and how they're all about compensating developers fairly

yet they just paid money to prevent Valve from selling this game while using their store. They paid money to prevent Valve from making any money off the technology they developed, while using it. Or does Valve suddenly not count as a developer anymore because SteamVR isn't a game? FYI the VR team at valve is huge, the company deserves to be compensated for their work.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Might be reading it wrong, but it says you need it for the Vive. But if you have oculus you use Oculus VR.

Title seems a bit misleading

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Oculus VR uses SteamVR for multiheadset titles.

 

[Dazraell]

I laughed so hard I spilled my coffee. Thank you Tim.

 

[Sean Mirrsen]

If we're gonna be mad about this, are we also gonna be mad about games that use Unreal Engine being sold on Steam?

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No, because for every UE game that gets sold outside of EGS, Epic shaves off another 5% from what the developer earns per sale. Not charging for use of the engine copies like Unity does, just flat percentage off all sales revenue, for as long as the game is sold.

 

[Kurt Russell]

If we're gonna be mad about this, are we also gonna be mad about games that use Unreal Engine being sold on Steam?

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How is this even remotely comparable?

So would you rather they not support Vive?

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The OP explains that you don't need SteamVR to use its features, since Valve has also worked on OpenVR...

 

[Thrill_house]

Omg thank you OP and epic for giving me and the boys in the shop a hearty laugh. Fucking clown shoes sweeney, clown shoes lmao

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Can't you play this without VR? Why would SteamVR be "required to run" in that instance? Is the title accurate?

 

[Deleted member 12790]

If we're gonna be mad about this, are we also gonna be mad about games that use Unreal Engine being sold on Steam?

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You pay money to use UE4, either a massive upfront sum or a percentage of royalties indefinitely.

SteamVR is free to use.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Can't you play this without VR? Why would SteamVR be "required to run" in that instance? Is the title accurate?

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did you miss the words "VR Exclusive" in the title?

 

[Vyrance]

If we're gonna be mad about this, are we also gonna be mad about games that use Unreal Engine being sold on Steam?

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How many of them is Valve paying to be exclusive

 

[Starviper]

Might be reading it wrong, but it says you need it for the Vive. But if you have oculus you use Oculus VR.

Title seems a bit misleading

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Not exactly true. I got an Oculus Quest and how I plan to play this is via SteamVR; Oculus VR doesn't play well with Virtual Desktop streaming AFAIK. SteamVR works with damn near anything.

 

[Deleted member 17952]

If we're gonna be mad about this, are we also gonna be mad about games that use Unreal Engine being sold on Steam?

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Unreal license isn't free.

 

[Kate]

Valve can afford to develop steam VR because they are a multi-billion-dollar private company. They could continue to develop it even without taking 30% of every indie's revenue. This literally has nothing to do with the 30% cut. What are you proposing? The game's cut has to be 30% because they use SteamVR? Why?

The game obviously uses steam VR because it was developed for steam VR. Why would this change just because Epic offered them money for a timed PC exclusive? Why should they pull out a working solution just because they're on EGS? Do you really think Epic should require the developer to change APIs just for that reason? Considering how angry people get about having to use EGS you'd think they'd be happy to have a game using Steam APIs considering they all have Steam installed and want games to be Steam-exclusive already at the cost of developers' revenue.

Like, I get it, you hate Epic [edit: inflammatory phrasing here removed], I agree that the exclusives feel really gross. But this is absurd and betrays a complete misunderstanding of how development (and economics!) work. Steam VR is not that complicated to maintain, I'd estimate 6 engineers tops and probably not full time. The *actual VR tech* was much more of an involved undertaking, but the R&D on that occurred industry wide (Valve relied on partners like HTC for a lot, and much of this research happened at Bethesda, Oculus, Microsoft, etc) and headsets don't rely on SteamVR for all of their functionality. It's a frontend with some UI and some useful features and an SDK. No one is being harmed by a game that was built for SteamVR continuing to use SteamVR.

EDIT:

Unreal license isn't free.

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It technically is if you're on EGS, Epic has officially waived the license fees since they already take a cut of your revenue. Not so on Steam or Itch, though. I'd like it if it was free universally.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

Features don't count in store wars. Give the devs another +15%, and I'm sure they'd find better solutions for everything on their own. Be it leaderboards, cloud saves, APIs, or whatever.

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you're under arrest for violations of Poe's Law

 

[Deleted member 12790]

So would you rather they not support Vive?

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I'd rather they eat shit with paying to keep games off of steam and just let the game be sold on every storefront like the vast majority of PC gaming has done for the last decade.

 

[LewieP]

So would you rather they not support Vive?

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I would rather they stop shit-talking about Valve not earning the 30% cut.

Or develop their own solution. They can fund it with their 12% cut.

Edit: and yeah, they probably shouldn't seek to prevent games that rely on Valve's tech being released on Steam, but it seems Epic have no issue with taking advantage of Valve's generosity towards PC gaming as a whole.

 

[Deleted member 3294]

You pay money to use UE4, either a massive upfront sum or a percentage of royalties indefinitely.

SteamVR is free to use.

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The supposed problem here isn't about the costs of the tools though, it's about that a platform other than Steam uses it at all.

Which is a really weird thing to have a problem with.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Like, I get it, you hate Epic because China or competition or whatever

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You know what, fuck you for trying to imply my complaints about the EGS are somehow rooted in racism. I have never, ever once implied this or that it's a problem with china.

 

[Htown]

Valve can afford to develop steam VR because they are a multi-billion-dollar private company. They could continue to develop it even without taking 30% of every indie's revenue. This literally has nothing to do with the 30% cut

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do you think the multi-billion dollars came from fucking space?

 

[Doskoi Panda]

I'd rather they eat shit with paying to keep games off of steam and just let the game be sold on every storefront like the vast majority of PC gaming has done for the last decade.

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Krej you're replying to someone who has expressed the belief that Valve has achieved more in the last six months (thanks to Epic pressure, ofc) than they have in the last six years.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

do you think the multi-billion dollars came from fucking space?

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also, why hasn't the multi-billion dollar company that is Epic come up with similar technology, then?

 

[Sean Mirrsen]

Valve can afford to develop steam VR because they are a multi-billion-dollar private company. They could continue to develop it even without taking 30% of every indie's revenue. This literally has nothing to do with the 30% cut.

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Uh, just for reference, where do you think all of Valve's money comes from? Steamboxes? The two games a decade they sometimes make nowadays? The nonexistent Source Engine licensing? The colossal R&D moneysink of the Index that just started being on sale?

 

[Kate]

Nice. This will be a nice example to use when, for the millionth time, people need explaining that Steam is not just a storefront and Epic coming in to "save" the developers from that 70/30 split is just PR.

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The cut for this game is still 12%, because it's on EGS. What is dishonest or confusing here? How is it PR? The cut is still 12%.

For the people saying this "isn't an issue," the drum Epic has been banging for so long was about how unfair the 30% cut is to developers, and how they're all about compensating developers fairly

yet they just paid money to prevent Valve from selling this game while using their store. They paid money to prevent Valve from making any money off the technology they developed, while using it. Or does Valve suddenly not count as a developer anymore because SteamVR isn't a game? FYI the VR team at valve is huge, the company deserves to be compensated for their work.

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Yes, and they paid the developer. The developer makes money here. If Valve wanted to monetize SteamVR, they could charge a license fee. They do not, and OpenVR (which this game does not use, as is the developer's choice) is free. Epic is not stealing money from anyone here: They're handing the developer money.

I would rather they stop shit-talking about Valve not earning the 30% cut.

Or develop their own solution. They can fund it with their 12% cut.

Edit: and yeah, they probably shouldn't seek to prevent games that rely on Valve's tech being released on Steam, but it seems Epic have no issue with taking advantage of Valve's generosity towards PC gaming as a whole.

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Valve doesn't earn the 30% cut. If Valve wants to charge money for SteamVR they should. They don't, so Epic has no obligation to fund or pay for SteamVR. In the first place Epic is not using SteamVR here, the game developer is: Why should Epic be obligated to force the developer to modify their game?

IS Valve really "generous" when they're ripping off indies while offering AAA a sub-30% cut? Just because they gave away SteamVR? Is that really what you're saying?

 

[dsk1210]

it's pretty ridiculous that they paid to keep it off Steam but it's a requirement to play it. Mental infact.

 

[Pryme]

It is an issue because Epic Games continues to push a narrative that the 30% cut is bad for this industry.

The same cut they are using to their advantage.

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I'm not sure how everyone has deduced that a (for example) 20% cut would not yield enough profit to fund Valve's R&D costs.

So yes, Epic has to deal with some egg on their face for having to use a feature developed by and proprietary to Steam. But I'm not seeing why '30%' is a constant refrain in this thread.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Krej you're replying to someone who has expressed the belief that Valve has achieved more in the last six months (thanks to Epic pressure, ofc) than they have in the last six years.

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I'm aware. I recognize everyone trying to downplay this ITT. They aren't clever.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

If we're gonna be mad about this, are we also gonna be mad about games that use Unreal Engine being sold on Steam?

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Steam doesn't lock out games from being sold on the Epic Store so... no?

 

[elyetis]

If we're gonna be mad about this, are we also gonna be mad about games that use Unreal Engine being sold on Steam?

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Did Valve ever argue that the 5% Epic is taking from UE4 games is undeserved, and somehow have that speech while getting developers who use EU4 tools for steam games while not paying Epic that fee ?

But to be fair I'm not angry at the situation, something like that showing how Epic ( small company against the multi-billion-dollar Valve I hear ) is :

It's almost like Epic is full of shite.

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Is almost funny at this point.