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Braaier

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
13,237
Where's your evidence that the sales they lose are meaningful?

Exodus sold more then the previous game. DA: Inquisition sold more than DA2 did, neither launched on steam and still pulled in great sales number for their respective series compared to the previous launch.

The lost sales are so insignificant that it simply doesn't matter if they lose a few sales on steam because the majority of people will simply buy it at whatever storefront it's available from.

Also I hope you understand, I am not advocating for Epic, I myself personally would prefer steam over it as well, I'm just stating why the devs/publishers are doing it and why they don't really care about steam or those that are asking to put the game on there rather then making it an Epic exclusive.
You keep going back to previous games. That tells you NOTHING about the current game. Sequels oftentimes sell more than the previous entry. RDR2 outsold RDR1. The latest Smash game outsold previous Smash games. So your point is....pointless.

And again, what's your source on these "insignificant" lost sales? Sounds like this is just wishful thinking from you. A quick google search shows me that there are 47 million Steam users. How many Epic store users are there? Steam's user count dwarfs Epic's. So to say the lost sales are insignificant is laughable.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,950
We'd been talking to "those guys", as though that included the actual developers who themselves were blindsided.

I like the now we have a view and can "work with" everybody. What do you mean work with? You throw money at publishers, there's no "working with". You're nothing but a walking wallet built on microtransactions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
People always post this but honestly, how many people are really using all that nonsense? The only actual important thing on there is cloud saves. Everything else is just list wars crap that a small minority of users engage with.

We already live in a world where you need at least 3-4 launchers on your PC. Steam has just been a storefront for me for a while now.
In the last 3 months I have used every feature on that list except for Family Sharing multiple times. Many of them daily as part of the natural usage and discovery process.

Why assume they are niche just because *you* don't use them?
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,950
People always post this but honestly, how many people are really using all that nonsense? The only actual important thing on there is cloud saves. Everything else is just list wars crap that a small minority of users engage with.

We already live in a world where you need at least 3-4 launchers on your PC. Steam has just been a storefront for me for a while now.

If only a small minority of users use these features then they should be empty. No discussions being had, no videos being posted, no screenshots shared, no modding guides, no marketplace, no anything.

Yet, it's all there and being engaged with consistently if you bothered to look.

Because you don't bother using something you assume no one else is either. And while there are numerous launchers only a few are worth a damn. The rest are half assed setups with nothing to offer, existing only to take in more money.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
If only a small minority of users use these features then they should be empty. No discussions being had, no videos being posted, no screenshots shared, no modding guides, no marketplace, no anything.

Yet, it's all there and being engaged with consistently if you bothered to look.

Because you don't bother using something you assume no one else is either. And while there are numerous launchers only a few are worth a damn. The rest are half assed setups with nothing to offer, existing only to take in more money.
It doesn't matter whether they're "worth a damn" or not, they have the games I want to play. In the last 6 months or so (at least) there hasn't been anything on Steam that I care about (Sekiro is the first in a long while).

The reality of the situation is that Steam will never be the definitive PC client like it used to be. That's been true pretty much since EA launched Origin. I like stuff about Steam too, but as soon as it was required for me to have other launchers I instantly stopped paying attention to that crap. What's the point?
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,950
It doesn't matter whether they're "worth a damn" or not, they have the games I want to play. In the last 6 months or so (at least) there hasn't been anything on Steam that I care about (Sekiro is the first in a long while).

This is an especially hilarious take considering Epic's entire library of exclusives with the exception of maybe Hades was announced for Steam.

Epic's money is the reason Steam hasn't had anything for you to care about!
 

Fadewise

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,210
This is multifaceted, but to start with, nobody cared, there was just apathy since it was another launcher. Collective groan because that means more completely unnecessary game library fragmentation but not much else. Like We've got Battle.net, Steam, GoG Galaxy, Origin, uPlay, Bethesda launcher and more - do we need another one? That was the basic sentiment prior to December. Fragmentation is an annoyance because it makes it harder to view your whole collection when thinking about what to play, splits up different games in the same series across different places, and forces you to have multiple friends lists across different things, as well as have multiple accounts to keep track of, more icons cluttering your home screen, more overlays in game with different keyboard shortcuts to remember. It's a gnat that you only deal with because you have to, not because you want to.

Then, they started to buy exclusivity. Normally if you don't like EA's games or whatever, you can just ignore their launcher too and buy other games on Steam or GoG or whatever you prefer. Epic instead pursued a strategy whereby third party games, including notably Metro Exodus early on, were suddenly exclusive to their store for 12 months. Exodus had been using Steam to advertise and was even taking preorders, but then it got yanked with under two weeks to launch. This pissed people off royally. They've continued doing it since then, and Phoenix Point was an absolute pisstake because fig backer who were promised Steam / GoG keys of their choosing were now informed that actually their keys would only be distributed 12 months after launch and that they could have an Epic key in the meantime.

"Where you buy it" is really only a fraction of the story. People like GoG because it's universally DRM free and lightweight. People like Steam because it has an extremely rich featureset unrivaled by any other launcher in the industry. This is not like an arbitrary decision to barrack for a particular sports team, some people make extensive use of Steam's features. But even ignoring that, Epic's store features and launcher features were extremely anemic and to this day are playing catch up to where other launchers were years ago. Regional pricing took months to implement, Cloud saves are coming "3-6 months from now", there is still no availability in China. Epic is telling PC customers to buy on their far worse platform, because you have to either do that or wait a year, sucked in. Having such a bad launcher while also buying exclusivity was salt in the wound.

Many people want this to stop. They do not like it. In summary:
  • In general people don't want more stores, there's already plenty
  • People don't like using launchers with terrible feature sets
  • People don't like companies buying third party exclusivity on already complete or mostly complete games.

This is the best summary I've seen of the issues so far, and really needs to be required reading for anyone before posting "but it's just another icon, shut up" in an EGS thread.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
This is an especially hilarious take considering Epic's entire library of exclusives with the exception of maybe Hades was announced for Steam.

Epic's money is the reason Steam hasn't had anything for you to care about!
Not really... been playing Apex Legends, Destiny 2, Anthem, and evergreen stuff like Diablo III and Overwatch. Recently started up The Division 2 as well. That one I suppose could be blamed on Epic. But again, I've already needed separate launchers for EA and Blizzard for many years now. The reason why I need them doesn't change the fact that I need them, so whatever.
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Not really... been playing Apex Legends, Destiny 2, Anthem, and evergreen stuff like Diablo III and Overwatch. Recently started up The Division 2 as well. That one I suppose could be blamed on Epic. But again, I've already needed separate launchers for EA and Blizzard for many years now. The reason why I need them doesn't change the fact that I need them, so whatever.
90% of the games exclusive to EGS had a Steam page. If you couldn't find anything worth it on Steam, but EGS is full of wonders, I would question your sanity. Or honesty.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
90% of the games exclusive to EGS had a Steam page. If you couldn't find anything worth it on Steam, but EGS is full of wonders, I would question your sanity. Or honesty.
...I never said EGS is full of wonders. I never even mentioned it. The only game I have on there is Fortnite.

The point is that I haven't been able to exclusively use Steam in many years now because the landscape was already fragmented with exclusive games on multiple launchers. Epic money-hatting their way into the arena doesn't change the fact that I already had to have Origin, Battle.net, and Bethesda launchers to cover all of my bases. Because of that, those Steam features haven't been terribly relevant to me for a long ass time.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
And this list even missing some important features steam has like all console controllers support
This works for any non steam game. I use it for Epic Game Store games. I do wish a non store tethered alternative show up with a touch pad for mouse look and gyro, but launching steam to use the Steam Controller on games like Dragon Age Inquisition is worth it.

Where are the gameprofilers? Step your game up dudes!
 

Unkindled

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,247
Different case here.

Walking dead was pulled out of Steam because of the TT implosion.

Skybound saved the project and made their own décisions that was to release on EPS. It was already out of Steam before.
Actually Skybound took over the project much before Epic deal happened.


It was pulled from Steam at 20 December 2018.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
People always post this but honestly, how many people are really using all that nonsense? The only actual important thing on there is cloud saves. Everything else is just list wars crap that a small minority of users engage with.

We already live in a world where you need at least 3-4 launchers on your PC. Steam has just been a storefront for me for a while now.

"Features i dont care about, dont matter" - Epic Store Defenders.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
People always post this but honestly, how many people are really using all that nonsense? The only actual important thing on there is cloud saves. Everything else is just list wars crap that a small minority of users engage with.
It's not necessary to use all of them for many to be useful. Personally I use wishlist a lot, every game I'm interested in ends up there and I use it to conveniently check if any games I'm interested in are on sale. Very helpful during big sales especially, like summer and winter. Imagine the work needed to pull up every invidual page for a game just to see what the price is. I've also checked the wishlists of my friends when gifting games (I've got some gifts too). I've used Steam broadcasting to broadcast myself and to watch my friends play. Just last week I was watching my friend play Witcher 3, again very convenient compared to something like setting up a Twitch. While user reviews are prone to review bombing and other shit (Valve has been trying to combat this somewhat atleast), they're still useful and I've written about 20 reviews myself. While I like to play my games as Vanilla as possible, for second playthroughs I might go with some mods and again Steam makes this effortless. Works like a charm for XCOM atleast, hell Long War was so popular Firaxis hired the modders do something for the sequel too so you must know that mods are pretty popular among PC users (not all of course). I've also shared quite a lot of screenshots (few videos too), must be said that not all my friends share the excitement for screenshot sharing but some do. So I do routinely check out the activity feed for any new uploads from my friends. I haven't used the account sharing a lot, feels bit dishonest since it's "family sharing", so I only played Phantom Pain from my friends account. But I do have friends who either share their accounts between family or just friends. It's extremely easy to see the appeal of it, even though I'm personally bit averse to using it outside of family. And I find it quite amazing, that there's people like you who are either dishonest or just plain stupid when they claim none (or just one) of the features are useful to most people. That list is even missing some big ones (and a lot of small ones), like the controller support.
 
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Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
6,659
You keep going back to previous games. That tells you NOTHING about the current game. Sequels oftentimes sell more than the previous entry. RDR2 outsold RDR1. The latest Smash game outsold previous Smash games. So your point is....pointless.

And again, what's your source on these "insignificant" lost sales? Sounds like this is just wishful thinking from you. A quick google search shows me that there are 47 million Steam users. How many Epic store users are there? Steam's user count dwarfs Epic's. So to say the lost sales are insignificant is laughable.

You keep saying that the "lost sales" are significant, but the new games are selling better then the old games that were on steam. If these "lost sales" where of any significance that would not happen, you're literally saying that there's some huge number of "lost sales" but the actual sales numbers do not in any way shape or form support this conclusion at all.

Also no, new games don't always sell better then the previous one, look at Watch Dogs 2, Hitman 2 or look at the call of duty series, some of the newer games sold less then the older ones and vice versa.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,381
You keep saying that the "lost sales" are significant, but the new games are selling better then the old games that were on steam. If these "lost sales" where of any significance that would not happen, you're literally saying that there's some huge number of "lost sales" but the actual sales numbers do not in any way shape or form support this conclusion at all.

Also no, new games don't always sell better then the previous one, look at Watch Dogs 2, Hitman 2 or look at the call of duty series, some of the newer games sold less then the older ones and vice versa.

I'm sure the millionth time someone explains why the number epic gave about sales is misleading will be the time that gets people to stop posting this. Surely.
 

Braaier

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
13,237
You keep saying that the "lost sales" are significant, but the new games are selling better then the old games that were on steam. If these "lost sales" where of any significance that would not happen, you're literally saying that there's some huge number of "lost sales" but the actual sales numbers do not in any way shape or form support this conclusion at all.

Also no, new games don't always sell better then the previous one, look at Watch Dogs 2, Hitman 2 or look at the call of duty series, some of the newer games sold less then the older ones and vice versa.
You can't say that though? Name me a sequel that didn't outperform its predecesoe
It's hard innit? Sequels usually outperform its predecessor. That's nothing new.

That's why I'm saying we need to wait until the game releases on steam. We can assume a large percentage of those early sales on steam are lost sales by going exclusive to the epic store. Then you have to factor in the ppl That said fuck it and will never buy the game now. So yeah, there are definitely lost sales, probably of a sizeable amount. But let's wait and see
 

Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
6,659
You can't say that though? Name me a sequel that didn't outperform its predecesoe
It's hard innit? Sequels usually outperform its predecessor. That's nothing new.

That's why I'm saying we need to wait until the game releases on steam. We can assume a large percentage of those early sales on steam are lost sales by going exclusive to the epic store. Then you have to factor in the ppl That said fuck it and will never buy the game now. So yeah, there are definitely lost sales, probably of a sizeable amount. But let's wait and see

I'll add some more from info I could find.

Watch Dogs 2
Hitman 2
Call of Duty blops 4 (from what I could find the sales were flat, no gain like they wanted)
Fallout New Vegas
Halo 4
Halo 5
Fallout 76
Just Cause 4
Far Cry Primal

Also, I'm not saying there aren't some people on steam that hold out, just that the sales they "lost" are not of any significance in terms of their projected sales and what they got, they didn't see underperformance or lesser sales numbers compared to the previous game so those "lost sales" did hurt them really. That's why companies like EA are fine with selling their games on their own storefront and not putting them on steam.
 

Braaier

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
13,237
I'll add some more from info I could find.

Watch Dogs 2
Hitman 2
Call of Duty blops 4 (from what I could find the sales were flat, no gain like they wanted)
Fallout New Vegas
Halo 4
Halo 5
Fallout 76
Just Cause 4
Far Cry Primal

Also, I'm not saying there aren't some people on steam that hold out, just that the sales they "lost" are not of any significance in terms of their projected sales and what they got, they didn't see underperformance or lesser sales numbers compared to the previous game so those "lost sales" did hurt them really. That's why companies like EA are fine with selling their games on their own storefront and not putting them on steam.
You keep going back to previous games. It doesn't work like that. Like I've told you several times already sequels oftentimes outperform its predecessor. But think how much better these examples you provided would have done with a steam release.
 

Yung Kyubii

Banned
May 12, 2018
508
There is so many store-fronts as of right now, and the only one with features that matter to me is in the Discord app.
 

Cecil

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,449
The announcement was made a day before the promise so it's all good.



The next question to him needs to be "but are Epic actively pursuing publishers/devs to change these plans, or are you not?".

It's a hell of a lot of difference between publishers and devs doing this themselves, like Snapshot games, or if Epic are the ones trying to make it happen.