Epic Seven (Mobile/Mobage) |OT| 1.25% better than Dragalia Lost's Rates!

Oct 25, 2017
2,475
Nerfing a 5* limited hero is tough. I absolutely agree that she should be nerfed. I have her, use her in a ton of content, and yes, she needs nerfed. I want her nerfed. I want variety in the units I choose and see.

But there would be rioting if they nerfed a limited hero. I think the correct approach is what they're doing: implementing heroes to counter her.
It's kinda funny she's so common in PVP that arena has become very rote and simple for me at this point. The only teams that pose a threat in low challenger are the ones with actual imagination put into them, i.e. not Diene/Fkluri/Luna. I'm much more worried when I see a level 50 General Purrgis or a level 40 Judith because I know that person probably thought about their team's speed levels and has an actual game plan.

Diene reminds me of Reinhardt in FEH, at least before he fell out of style. He was so omnipresent that if you had a good counter, arena actually got a lot more manageable because you could bait and kill 1 of their units for free on turn 1.

Anyways it's Diene in PVE that's the problem for me, specifically my lack of Diene. I keep running into content that would be a LOT easier if I happened to have someone who resembles Diene or Tamarinne. It's hard not to think they're creating this content (hell raid, new Abyss) with OP supports in mind. Maybe I should work on Hazel and see if she can fill that role, I can make a full red team now with Cermia so I might as well.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,361
Nerfing a 5* limited hero is tough. I absolutely agree that she should be nerfed. I have her, use her in a ton of content, and yes, she needs nerfed. I want her nerfed. I want variety in the units I choose and see.

But there would be rioting if they nerfed a limited hero. I think the correct approach is what they're doing: implementing heroes to counter her.
Well they could buff some of the weaker healing units. I have Doris, she takes too much effort to make good, they could boost her speed or drop the cool down on one of her skill by one, she's never ready to heal when someone on my team needs it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,397
I know I'm late but LOL @ this post.
How obnoxious. It's possible to disagree without coming across like a dick.

Come on, man. Come on. You can't be serious. Really. You can't.
I don't know how to break it to you but I am, looking forward to your response, I suppose you'll upgrade to ROFL? Tama and Diene are more useful than her in PvE and ML Ken is better than her in PvP (Judge Kise is up there as well). She's certainly top five but it's an exaggeration to say she's the best character in the game.

Edit: Well thats what I get for responding while reading, guess with the balance change info out its a moot point. Glad to see R&L finally getting added to the shop. Those awakening changes though are fairly underwhelming. I do sort of wish they added the option to recall any nerfed unit.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
2,361
How obnoxious. It's possible to disagree without coming across like a dick.



I don't know how to break it to you but I am, looking forward to your response, I suppose you'll upgrade to ROFL? Tama and Diene are more useful than her in PvE and ML Ken is better than her in PvP (Judge Kise is up there as well). She's certainly top five but it's an exaggeration to say she's the best character in the game.
I think it's that her kit had the built in R&L (which doesn't really make sense) and that caused this RNG factor to battles that people tend to not like. Same way people don't like Assassin Cart turning the battle into an RNG slug fest.

I personally don't care that she is good for all sorts of content, the rates are crap, and the bosses are not really that well tuned for using a variety of heros. She has enough impact that she could probably fill some kind of gap on a team that lacks optimal gear or support (used her to complete some hell content faster) but she doesn't dictate battles like the trinity did from what I read about them. Lorina was also completely busted, one shotting level 80 or so bosses all on her on.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,397
I think it's that her kit had the built in R&L (which doesn't really make sense) and that caused this RNG factor to battles that people tend to not like. Same way people don't like Assassin Cart turning the battle into an RNG slug fest.
Oh I understand why she got nerfed. I don't really have a problem with that. I just thought that with Tama and Diene in the running it was arguable that she was literally the best character in the game.
 
Nov 1, 2017
895
Oh I understand why she got nerfed. I don't really have a problem with that. I just thought that with Tama and Diene in the running it was arguable that she was literally the best character in the game.
They are 5* or 5* limited.

F.Kluri has made the knight class irrelevant as a 3* specialty change hero .

When I saw people not rolling on Charles because they have F.Kluri, I knew her fate was sealed.

You are comparing units. You need to compare them by role.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,397
They are 5* or 5* limited.

F.Kluri has made the knight class irrelevant as a 3* specialty change hero .

When I saw people not rolling on Charles because they have F.Kluri, I knew her fate was sealed.

You are comparing units. You need to compare them by role.
I don't think you do. Roles are fairly fluid in this game, the only thing they really dictate is artifact usage e.g. you said it yourself earlier that most people tank with soul weavers. But sure she's (for the next week) the best knight in the game, no argument there. I just think in an overall comparison it's not as clear cut.
 
Nov 4, 2017
430
Charles is a gawd, I kinda randomly got him but he was my second six star and the only character I've gone in on with molas......

Really looking forward to putting Elbris on him next month (I'll wait until the end of the month incase I summon it before it leaves the shop.

Anyway while watching Kgaming's E7 stream right now.... I was grinding out to 950 sky shards so I can buy the 50bookmarks+3 penguins deal, had a ML pull ready to go after I finished with them.... first 9 pulls were really, really bad (though I might have another SSS unit, haven't checked)... after that though.....

 
Oct 25, 2017
4,267
Agree with Uthred.

Classes in this game only exist so they can funnel artifacts to certain classes. Tons of knights aren't meant to be tanks, and look at characters like Violet. A thief who should be the tank. And while most soul weavers are healers or support units, you have units like ML Aither and ML Dingo who, while heal, are damage dealers. And so on.

Only look at classes to see how the sync with artifacts. Anything beyond that is kinda pointless.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,397
Just one hero nerfed is bizarre to be honest. I don't understand why the concept of nerfing a limited character is so crazy either. That they are shouldn't make them untouchable.
For better or worse (I'd say its probably the latter) most gacha games sell their limited characters on their potency as much as their general appeal. If they set a precedent by nerfing Diene then it might give people pause about going all in on future limited characters.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,608
For better or worse (I'd say its probably the latter) most gacha games sell their limited characters on their potency as much as their general appeal. If they set a precedent by nerfing Diene then it might give people pause about going all in on future limited characters.
Does it matter? We have already determined that they must be making more money off regular banners since the pull never is guaranteed. If that wasn't the case, limited banners would - with a high likelyhood - be a much more frequent occurence. That aside, I don't honestly think a nerf to this character would curb whales' spending habits either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,267
Does it matter? We have already determined that they must be making more money off regular banners since the pull never is guaranteed. If that wasn't the case, limited banners would - with a high likelyhood - be a much more frequent occurence. That aside, I don't honestly think a nerf to this character would curb whales' spending habits either.
This is actually untrue.

Luna made them the most money of any banner in the history of the game.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,361
Charles is a gawd, I kinda randomly got him but he was my second six star and the only character I've gone in on with molas......

Really looking forward to putting Elbris on him next month (I'll wait until the end of the month incase I summon it before it leaves the shop.

Anyway while watching Kgaming's E7 stream right now.... I was grinding out to 950 sky shards so I can buy the 50bookmarks+3 penguins deal, had a ML pull ready to go after I finished with them.... first 9 pulls were really, really bad (though I might have another SSS unit, haven't checked)... after that though.....
I've been wondering about that, but what is the reason gacha games have these announcements for when people pull 5 star items? Is it to increase the chances of someone raging and pulling out their wallets and rage summoning?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,267
That's true, I forgot about Luna. But did people really pull for her for her combat prowess or her outrageously sexualized design? Diene's banner wasn't nearly as successful, was it?
Oh, it's definitely a combination of both.

I think Diene wasn't pulled because it was really early in the game (a large chunk of the playerbase at least in the Discord came around after Diene) and she's "boring". Also, there was a lot of chatter around her being really weak (which is hilarious) from Reddit.

The tits helped, there's no doubt, but I've heard a lot of stories of people saying "Eh, I can drop $50 to reach pity because I know I'll get her" whereas people would never drop $50 for a 10% chance to pull a unit without a guarantee. I think there are a good amount of people out there who want to spend but won't because there's no pity and the rates are pretty poor.
 
Oct 25, 2017
342
Just one hero nerfed is bizarre to be honest. I don't understand why the concept of nerfing a limited character is so crazy either. That they are shouldn't make them untouchable.
They probably one day will release their banner again , a nerf might mean they will gain less money from it because the character becomes less desirable. All people who doesn't have Diene will go hard on her banner for example, a nerfed Diene not so much.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,608
Oh, it's definitely a combination of both.

I think Diene wasn't pulled because it was really early in the game (a large chunk of the playerbase at least in the Discord came around after Diene) and she's "boring". Also, there was a lot of chatter around her being really weak (which is hilarious) from Reddit.

The tits helped, there's no doubt, but I've heard a lot of stories of people saying "Eh, I can drop $50 to reach pity because I know I'll get her" whereas people would never drop $50 for a 10% chance to pull a unit without a guarantee. I think there are a good amount of people out there who want to spend but won't because there's no pity and the rates are pretty poor.
It would be interesting if we had some proper insight into the amounts of cash generated per banner.

They probably one day will release their banner again , a nerf might mean they will gain less money from it because the character becomes less desirable. All people who doesn't have Diene will go hard on her banner for example.
Iirc, they said that limited heroes would not return after their first (and only) banner.
 
Nov 1, 2017
895
Agree with Uthred.

Classes in this game only exist so they can funnel artifacts to certain classes. Tons of knights aren't meant to be tanks, and look at characters like Violet. A thief who should be the tank. And while most soul weavers are healers or support units, you have units like ML Aither and ML Dingo who, while heal, are damage dealers. And so on.

Only look at classes to see how the sync with artifacts. Anything beyond that is kinda pointless.
I would like to know when I said otherwise.

No one uses F.Kluri to tank, and as dispellers and non tanks, Charles and F.Kluri filled the same off tank dispellers with Aurius role.

And I kinda think it's irresponsible to only want them to cater to the waifu crowd. Making Charles farmable like Zeno would have made him terrible, like Zeno.

Charles is a pretty good green dpser when it's all said and done.
 
Oct 25, 2017
342
It would be interesting if we had some proper insight into the amounts of cash generated per banner.



Iirc, they said that limited heroes would not return after their first (and only) banner.
Nope , there is an * Saying they might sell the hero on the same form or other way in the future on Luna banner , Diene's one I don't remember. But certainly they won't leave money on the table

link for reference:

http://m-page.onstove.com/epicseven/global/board/list/e7en001/view/2871954
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,608
Posted the link for reference above, devalue rarity is quite subjective, I don't think re releasing a banner once in a year or two , devalues it. It is still inaccessible for the most part, making it a rare chance to get them
I agree with you, so I am all for them doing a rerelease every so often. It's just that this contradicts what they said before is all. But perhaps they just changed their mind.
 
Nov 1, 2017
895
If you remove a person from a party of 4 and then click on the friend unit tile and then add a friend unit, you can extrapolate your friends CP by the difference.

This some kind of bug?

Will help me clean my friends list after more testing if it does.

Bah, it's a. Display bug. Nevermind.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,351
I am disappointed by the lack of ML character nerfs and am now wondering when the hell they're going to add a character that counters evasion, because fuck that. Do something, already!
How obnoxious. It's possible to disagree without coming across like a dick.



I don't know how to break it to you but I am, looking forward to your response, I suppose you'll upgrade to ROFL? Tama and Diene are more useful than her in PvE and ML Ken is better than her in PvP (Judge Kise is up there as well). She's certainly top five but it's an exaggeration to say she's the best character in the game.

Edit: Well thats what I get for responding while reading, guess with the balance change info out its a moot point. Glad to see R&L finally getting added to the shop. Those awakening changes though are fairly underwhelming. I do sort of wish they added the option to recall any nerfed unit.
Sorry, I just have a really bad experience with fights that absolutely require a buff dispeller + def break that I could have very easily cleared had I used F. Kluri (but I don't), so it's really, really hard for me to see her in the same light as anyone who uses her. There are so many fights where she'll turn it into a cakewalk simply by being there, and on top of that, she is also ubiquitous in arena in an obnoxiously visible way, and there are so many fights where she won the day all on her own (thanks in no small part to her bullshit built-in R&L - thank goodness that's been nerfed).

Tam is undoubtedly stronger in PvE but has almost no PvP presence, and Diene, while super annoying, rarely has decided entire fights for me in arena the way Fluri has visibly done so. ML Ken is actually easier to counter in my experience on account of him being slower and squishier (and ironically, Fluri is actually a direct counter to him).

Oh, and I hate her visual design. So, basically, F. Kluri has all the ingredients needed to make me hate her in a way no one else can. I despise her, man. I'll be glad to see less of her going forward.
Ya'll think Tywin will be worth building for a C.Dom team after the buff?
If you don't have Bellona, he can fulfill nearly the same role, so maybe? Depends on how badly you need an AoE def breaker on your team.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,436
Kluri nerf was inevitable and better than I thought. Didn’t really think Diene would get hit. All the buffs are great. Love seeing buffs. I don’t really use any of the units that got buffed but good to see. Didn’t get new hero but then pulled AssCart and ML Dingo when I rage pulled with my saved ML. My Ludwig and Violet sat up and took notice.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,361
Kluri nerf was inevitable and better than I thought. Didn’t really think Diene would get hit. All the buffs are great. Love seeing buffs. I don’t really use any of the units that got buffed but good to see. Didn’t get new hero but then pulled AssCart and ML Dingo when I rage pulled with my saved ML. My Ludwig and Violet sat up and took notice.
ML Dingo is in the Moon Light pool now? I thought he was exclusive to the Mystic until Mystic rotation?
 
Oct 28, 2017
849
I agree with you, so I am all for them doing a rerelease every so often. It's just that this contradicts what they said before is all. But perhaps they just changed their mind.
I don't think it contradicts anything. Offering the hero again in the future does not necessarily equate to the rarity being devalued. For other heroes, there are many ways to get them. You can get them in off banner summons, covenant summon, from 4-5* tickets, and potentially through events in the future. For limited units, you can only ever get them through the limited banner. If they offer another limited banner with the same unit next year, it will still be rare.

And honestly, Diene and Luna are arguably the least rare 5* characters in the game, literally everyone has one (except of course the people who started late)
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,519
I have a question about SSS. Not sure if its started yet but if you take an SSS unit and feed it to one that is not the new unit becomes SSS too right?

If so does this count towards the mission of making SSS characters or does it count specifically for the unit? Like getting Jecht to SSS only counts once even if you make a second SSS Jecht?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,608
I don't think it contradicts anything. Offering the hero again in the future does not necessarily equate to the rarity being devalued. For other heroes, there are many ways to get them. You can get them in off banner summons, covenant summon, from 4-5* tickets, and potentially through events in the future. For limited units, you can only ever get them through the limited banner. If they offer another limited banner with the same unit next year, it will still be rare.

And honestly, Diene and Luna are arguably the least rare 5* characters in the game, literally everyone has one (except of course the people who started late)
It was a while ago, but the wording was very much in the sense of 'no rereleases'. That was before the Luna banner however, so it's possible (and sensible if) they are reconsidering that stance. Honestly, though, the entire PvP meta revolving around a hero not available anymore just is awful balancing no matter how you are selling it to me. PvP shouldn't be a Diene & Diene counter fiesta. The idea that limited heroes are beyond the nerf touch is ridiculous, and just screams 'Fuck you, got mine' from anyone that owns her. I don't believe for a second anyone would sue if she was nerfed, and I don't believe it would keep people from pulling limited in the future.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,170
They should definitely re-run old banners, there will be people that started the game late, or took breaks, that want a better chance at someone like a Bellona than the 5* rate pool affords. I think it would bring in more money for them too. I'd love to have a chance at Diene or Bellona and unless they re-run those I'll definitely never see Diene and my odds at a Bellona are abysmal.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,397
Kluri nerf was inevitable and better than I thought. Didn’t really think Diene would get hit. All the buffs are great. Love seeing buffs. I don’t really use any of the units that got buffed but good to see. Didn’t get new hero but then pulled AssCart and ML Dingo when I rage pulled with my saved ML. My Ludwig and Violet sat up and took notice.
Congrats. ML Dingo looks great both visually and in terms of kit.
 
Nov 4, 2017
430
Leon's the young knight Tanabae manipulated
Next freebie character?

Yep. I roll on potential. And with Charles' multipliers, I saw immediate potential. Dude will be broken in a few gear refreshes.

I don't really give a damn about waifus.
<3 my waifus but when a unit like Charles falls into my hands, building that shit up asap.

They should definitely re-run old banners, there will be people that started the game late, or took breaks, that want a better chance at someone like a Bellona than the 5* rate pool affords. I think it would bring in more money for them too. I'd love to have a chance at Diene or Bellona and unless they re-run those I'll definitely never see Diene and my odds at a Bellona are abysmal.
They might consider mystic summons as their way of giving old units a rate up, especially since they've starting selling mystic stone packs.....

Watch Bellona be the 5 star normal unit during the next new ML units rotation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,397
I was saving my gems but quite liked Cermia's animations so threw them all at the gacha, 80 pulls later and I have a single 5* artifact (the new one) to show for it. Now to find solace in the zen of gacha pulls.