• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Epic Store and 12% cut

spam musubi

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
eonden said:
That is a misreading of his post. What he says in there is that users from GAAS / F2P games buy much less games than the average (if at all), so basing your full audience on them is not the best thing.
Basically the audience for those games and the audience that buys artsy Indies is quite separated.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Which is why I find the claims that EGS will help developers to be inaccurate. There are different types of developers that need different things. AAA devs don't have a hard time getting their game in front of eyes so the store cut and moneyhat is good for them. Mid tier studios or large inndies might appreciate the money hat but they also need exposure and a large consumer base to grow their brand. Smaller Indies need exposure first, and they'd be gated off by the duration of EGS. Making a blanket statement about being good for developers is just misleading.
 
eonden

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,082
WarRock said:
That is the same though? Sorry if I worded it wrongly - it is what I meant to say, though I disagree with the "artsy indies" label, considering the numbers he showed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What I understood from you is that the audience in the store would gravitate towards the GAAS games, while what I wanted to say is that an audience that plays GAAS games is less likely to buy other games. Sorry if I misunderstood.
I added the "artsy indies" to make it more punchier with the tone but you are right.

The link to the article.
 
Tendo

Tendo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,407
I feel gross that I bought Hades on EGS store now. This guy and his company can hit the bricks. If a company signs an exclusive deal with EGS I'm a patient man and can wait or get it on console.
 
Demacabre

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
Swift_Gamer said:
Even if people don't like it, epic is the necessary competition valve needs.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We can reset the clock again. See how long before the next competition is good PR narrative happens.

Healthy and proconsumer competition typically doesn't mean less choices and walled off storefronts for less value and service to consumers.
 
Last edited:
Madjoki

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,230
WarRock said:
That is the same though? Sorry if I worded it wrongly - it is what I meant to say, though I disagree with the "artsy indies" label, considering the numbers he showed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Point is they do not compete, but have separate audience (of which audience for paid games are smaller). Those who play GaaS games like CS:GO are generally not interested in other games. So you can't make an (indie) FPS game targeting CS:GO players.

Same is true for EGS: They boast 85m accounts (including Fortnite audience). Most of those are not interested in your game.
And as a proof, in same event they announced downloads for free games (Subnautica, Slime Rancher) only got 4.5m downloads.
That's just bit over 5%. For a free game. How many of those would actually pay for your game?

(EGS numbers from GDC 2019)
 
MrBob

MrBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,670
BronsonLee said:
That mostly tells me they are 1000% a US centric store and couldn't be arsed about the rest of it right now

Which, you know, no
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

At the very I hope this is being enlightening to some why egs is eliciting so much rage.

If you are outside Western market egs exclusive is being harmful. People worldwide like games.

This isn't considering how shitty a launcher egs is or how I still think there might be price fixing with other store fronts that sell egs keys.
 
deadman322

deadman322

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,396
4TKccBK.png

sweet fucking competition.
 
Jiffy Smooth

Jiffy Smooth

Member
Dec 12, 2018
463
Madjoki said:
Point is they do not compete, but have separate audience (of which audience for paid games are smaller). Those who play GaaS games like CS:GO are generally not interested in other games. So you can't make an (indie) FPS game targeting CS:GO players.

Same is true for EGS: They boast 85m accounts (including Fortnite audience). Most of those are not interested in your game.
And as a proof, in same event they announced downloads for free games (Subnautica, Slime Rancher) only got 4.5m downloads.
That's just bit over 5%. For a free game. How many of those would actually pay for your game?

(EGS numbers from GDC 2019)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, I would dearly, dearly love to know the percentage of that 85 million who've actually spent money in the EGS outside of Fortnite. A captive audience isn't much good when they're happily captive to another game.
 
eonden

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,082
collige said:
Are there copies of this chart for different regions?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pretty much the same in most regions where they share regional pricing, with the main difference being EGS supports less currencies than Steam so there might be issues with variation of the dollar price.
EGS has regional pricing in some areas (the Caribean mainly) where Steam does not, and Steam has regional pricing in South-East asia where EGS doesn't.
 
Aaron D.

Aaron D.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,317
Madjoki said:
Same is true for EGS: They boast 85m accounts (including Fortnite audience). Most of those are not interested in your game.
And as a proof, in same event they announced downloads for free games (Subnautica, Slime Rancher) only got 4.5m downloads.
That's just bit over 5%. For a free game. How many of those would actually pay for your game?

(EGS numbers from GDC 2019)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Wowzers, this is the first I'm hearing of this.

Subnautica and Slime Rancher were both Top 5's for me in 2017/18. And EGS couldn't crack a 5% adoption rate at the low, low price of FREE?

God dang.
 
ZKenir

ZKenir

Member
Mar 31, 2018
4,437
Swift_Gamer said:
Even if people don't like it, epic is the necessary competition valve needs.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Competition that removes my ability to pre-order a game 20%-25% off on third party stores thanks to the 88/12 cut, and is also threatening all said stores existence, said competition also offloads on its customers additional processing fees and has a funny view of what is a "developing country".
 

Deleted member 5621

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
eonden said:
What I understood from you is that the audience in the store would gravitate towards the GAAS games, while what I wanted to say is that an audience that plays GAAS games is less likely to buy other games. Sorry if I misunderstood.
I added the "artsy indies" to make it more punchier with the tone but you are right.

The link to the article.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry for any confusion!

Btw, your avatar is the cutest thing. Do you have a link for the original artwork/artist?
 
CthulhuSars

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
Aaron D. said:
Wowzers, this is the first I'm hearing of this.

Subnautica and Slime Rancher were both Top 5's for me in 2017/18. And EGS couldn't crack a 5% adoption rate at the low, low price of FREE?

God dang.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Those numbers are sad as both games are really great. I am curious what the store use rate will be once Boarderlands 3 hits. I would imagine more people are using the store every week but those free game numbers are lower than I thought.
 
tuxfool

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
CthulhuSars said:
Those numbers are sad as both games are really great. I am curious what the store use rate will be once Boarderlands 3 hits. I would imagine more people are using the store every week but those free game numbers are lower than I thought.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Those are the kinds of games where most of the people that care about them, likely already have it.
 
CthulhuSars

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
tuxfool said:
Those are the kinds of games where most of the people that care about them, likely already have it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Very good point. I just figured free game downloads for a service that has tens of millions of people playing Epics main game would lead to a higher rate of people accepting free game handouts.
 
tuxfool

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
CthulhuSars said:
Very good point. I just figured free game downloads for a service that has tens of millions of people playing Epics main game would lead to a higher rate of people accepting free game handouts.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No.

And Steam Spy research actually proves that people that generally play F2P games aren't the same people that buy games. The conversion rate is minuscule. Given this data, it is funny to hear them actively promote the fact that they have a large Fortnite userbase ready to buy games in their store, never mind that the userbase is also split across 7 different platforms, where only 2 of which have the capacity to support an epic "store".
 
buset

buset

Member
Jul 25, 2018
414
svacina said:
Westerners, I swear to god...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, but can you instead tell me what payment solutions they use and explain to me, so I know? I mean, we are talking about paying for stuff online here. What do the non-westerner people use then? Is it an invoice system? Direct debit through bank transfer?

WarRock said:
Try living in a country outside of the EU or US for some time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My friends in Japan all use the listed credit cards, and my friends in Turkey, at least to pay for stuff online.
 
Crawl

Crawl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
172
I see certain sentiment from mostly games media and certain 'industry analysts' that developers going to the epic store and taking exclusive money is 'smart business.' While also saying that gamers who choose NOT to buy said games are considered whiny and entitled. Its so weird how many media / industry so called analysts take the side of the developer and or corporation immediately while dismissing the most important part of the equation which is the consumer.
 
spam musubi

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
VX1 said:
Mat makes a good point here:

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


The missing part of the equation is that not each store has the same amount of (active) users. If you sell a million copies on a store with a 30% cut versus 250k copies on a store with a 12% cut, where do you make more money? Which one lets your brand grow larger so that you have a bigger audience for your next title?
 
ShapeGSX

ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
5,221
Crawl said:
I see certain sentiment from mostly games media and certain 'industry analysts' that developers going to the epic store and taking exclusive money is 'smart business.' While also saying that gamers who choose NOT to buy said games are considered whiny and entitled. Its so weird how many media / industry so called analysts take the side of the developer and or corporation immediately while dismissing the most important part of the equation which is the consumer.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Devs make the games I like to play, and they fold or get sold or laid off all the time, despite many of them working grueling hours. As a consumer, I like to support them.
 
Stone Ocean

Stone Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,576
ShapeGSX said:
Devs make the games I like to play, and they fold or get sold or laid off all the time, despite many of them working grueling hours. As a consumer, I like to support them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
i support devs with every purchase I make.

If you're so eager to support devs, why not buy two copies of every game? That's twice as big of a cut they would get otherwise!
 
Jiffy Smooth

Jiffy Smooth

Member
Dec 12, 2018
463
nynt9 said:
The missing part of the equation is that not each store has the same amount of (active) users. If you sell a million copies on a store with a 30% cut versus 250k copies on a store with a 12% cut, where do you make more money? Which one lets your brand grow larger so that you have a bigger audience for your next title?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Also missing is how long they'd be willing to lock it down. Taking a guaranteed lump sum knowing you'll have a chance at a Steam launch six months or a year from now is a very different proposition from "I trust the Epic Store will reinvent the PC gaming landscape in my favour"
 
CthulhuSars

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
Paul said:
I generally like Tim and I respect his genius-level intelligence, but he is being so god damn disengenuous about this it really aggravates me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is what has rubbed me the wrong way this entire time. Tim is not an idiot and I would welcome an actual conversation about what his vision is and why he actually believes how it is being implemented right now is the right way to go.
 
Crawl

Crawl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
172
ShapeGSX said:
Devs make the games I like to play, and they fold or get sold or laid off all the time, despite many of them working grueling hours. As a consumer, I like to support them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's fine i understand the developers and publishers doing this. But why is there a backlash to the backlash? Why are they putting peoples complaints into 'gamer entitlement' when people have legitimate gripes with why they don't like said business practice.
 
Armaros

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
Paul said:
I generally like Tim and I respect his genius-level intelligence, but he is being so god damn disengenuous about this it really aggravates me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
CthulhuSars said:
This is what has rubbed me the entire time. Tim is not an idiot and I would welcome an actual conversation about what his vision is and why he actually believes how it is being implemented right now is the right way to go.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He knows games media and people on social media will parrot his talking points, he knows it's disengeous but he knows if it's repeated enough it becomes 'truth'.
 
ShapeGSX

ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
5,221
Stone Ocean said:
i support devs with every purchase I make.

If you're so eager to support devs, why not buy two copies of every game? That's twice as big of a cut they would get otherwise!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I've certainly purchased multiple copies of games I really liked before.

I'm not saying that every EGS move has been pure of heart.

But I do think that charging less to developers to distribute software is a good thing. 30% is a lot. That's more than retail margin, and they have to actually store physical products that depreciate, sometimes RAPIDLY. So they are taking a much larger risk when they stock a game.
 
Ge0force

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
ShapeGSX said:
But I do think that charging less to developers to distribute software is a good thing. 30% is a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm pretty sure most people agree with that. But everything else Epic is doing is NOT a good thing for us as consumers. I don't even wanna imagine what the future of pc gaming will look like if Epic succeeds in brute forcing their store to the top by moneyhatting 3rd party devs and publishers.
 
Jiffy Smooth

Jiffy Smooth

Member
Dec 12, 2018
463
ShapeGSX said:
I've certainly purchased multiple copies of games I really liked before.

I'm not saying that every EGS move has been pure of heart.

But I do think that charging less to developers to distribute software is a good thing. 30% is a lot. That's more than retail margin, and they have to actually store physical products that depreciate, sometimes RAPIDLY. So they are taking a much larger risk when they stock a game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Retail stores also generally don't let you buy the game from a third party and take 0% cut, store the game in perpetuity for unlimited customer downloads, or provide multiplayer servers, anti-cheat, controller APIs, and a ready-made Linux wrapper, among other things. So retail takes a risk, but Steam makes an investment.
 
Godzilla24

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,371
I feel Epic Games will continue to gain marketshare and improve on features. Should be a greater force in PC gaming the next few years.
 
Armaros

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
ShapeGSX said:
I've certainly purchased multiple copies of games I really liked before.

I'm not saying that every EGS move has been pure of heart.

But I do think that charging less to developers to distribute software is a good thing. 30% is a lot. That's more than retail margin, and they have to actually store physical products that depreciate, sometimes RAPIDLY. So they are taking a much larger risk when they stock a game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Uh you do realize that publishers and developers make less money on a retail physical copy then digital? even with 30%? Your logic and arguments dont match at all with your rhetoric.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.