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c0Zm1c

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,199
Anger aside, what should be the response from Valve? Paid exclusives? Pushing more open PC options in direct contrast to Epic? Other?
For a bare minimum, I think Valve should adjust their agreement with publishers to prevent games going up on the store only to be yanked later. Put something in place that assures a game actually listed on Steam with a release date is actually released on that date for a minimum period of time.
 

Rathorial

Member
Oct 28, 2017
578
I'm not particularly a fan of the exclusives, especially by poaching games that were available for sale on other platforms. Just seems like a cheap tactic to make up for the lacking incentives their launcher ecosystem has by itself. People can complain all they want about Steam, but Valve hasn't even seen the need to buy exclusives or lock down special content. The weird hot takes where people try to pretend Valve has gotten lazy, despite the fact the feature-set of Steam is still bigger than competition that have existed for years, and they keep adding new features faster than those other platforms.

I'm fine buying games on Epic's launcher, and I like that they might influence devs getting more money per copy, but that's the only good contribution they've made so far.
 

Gankzymcfly

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
643
Deep Silver isn't getting away unscathed (They talk about Koch who owns Deep Silver). Heck, even THQ Nordic made a comment kind of condemning the move Deep Silver made (if you read betwen the lines).

https://www.resetera.com/threads/th...-the-metro-exodus-epic-game-store-move.96369/

There is a lot of heat coming back right now at the publisher too.
Epic and the developers/publishers are to blame.

Im glad to see that people are keeping their criticism consistent now at least. In previous threads the generally consensus can be summed up as "we shouldn't blame smaller studios from taking handouts".

With regards to Epic. I really don't blame them for wanting to invest in their store and the fact that them investing in their store has indirectly resulted in more investment for games, is a good thing in my opinion. As I've mentioned in previous threads, i would imagine these lump sums of money studios are receiving from Epic are meant to compensate for earnings that could have been made by releasing on other platforms. Additionally many of the games we've seen taking these exclusivity deals are games that were going to be made regardless of any funding received from Epic. This would lead me to believe that the studios have the majority of negotiation power when dealing with epic, if one considers the fact that Epic has no influence over whether or not the game gets made and released on other platforms.

As a result the only influence Epic has in these negotiations is regarding what sized cheque they want to write, and as I mentioned earlier, the size of that cheque needs to compensate for the potential earnings studios could have made from releasing on other platforms. The only difference between the money they receive from Epic and the money the receive from releasing on other platforms is that the money they receive from Epic is guaranteed. Some of these games could have easily released on multiple platforms, have sold poorly and that would be the end of the studio. Selling poorly on the Epic store isn't a potential death sentence for the studio and rereleasing a year from now on different platforms has the potential to breath new life into a game; especially with games as a service type games and Epic's support of crossplatform play.

Of course these deals should be made far ahead of time and allowing preorders for platforms that won't see the game for a year after the Epic store is completely unacceptable (an example of wanting to have your cake and eat it too imo). However, with that being said, if these deals are made ahead of time and provide more stability for independent studios allowing them to potentially take more risks with their games while mitigating the risk of these studio going under, im all for it.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
What Epic does here is f'n disgusting and I can't support them anymore.
No matter if it's the aggressive exclusive shit, or the hypocritical "come and get some free games" stuff.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
Flips found this. If true, lol.

jhPtpop.png
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
What Epic does here is f'n disgusting and I can't support them anymore.
No matter if it's the aggressive exclusive shit, or the hypocritical "come and get some free games" stuff.
Eh, I'm not opposed to giving money to developers nor to giving games to players, so I can't agree with this.
 

Asator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
904
Epic is actively giving money to publishers to take things away from the customers (in this case the freedom to choose where we'd like to purchase the game, or buy the game at all in certain part of the world) and some people in this thread are arguing that this is great for the consumers.

Holy. Shit.

You know, part of me hope that those people are astroturfers, because the alternative would be even worse.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Guys, I don't think the 'blame the developers' angle is going to stick. It's been pitched like four times now. No one's biting.
 

Gatti-man

Banned
Jan 31, 2018
2,359
I'm pretty sure you'll never hear developers speak up against the decisions of their current publisher. That's bad for business (and possibly a violation of their contract). In addition, Epic's cut has a minimal effect on the developers because the publisher is the one that gets all the revenue. The developer was already paid during development. If they're lucky, they might see royalties if the game sells beyond expectations but that rarely happens except for the most successful games.



The fact that people can't distinguish between paying a third-party publisher/developer for timed exclusivity and funding a game from scratch is... troubling. Metro Exodus was already being made. It was already funded and completed and ready to launch on Steam. That's why physical copies of the game all come with Steam keys. The only reason it's not going to be sold on Steam for a year is that Deep Silver accepted a bribe at the last minute.

In one case, the game wouldn't exist without the exclusivity. In the other case, the game already exists and the exclusivity is simply a business arrangement that screws over customers. Epic's approach fits firmly in the latter category.
The owner of the studio made the decision to be exclusive to epic store so now what are you still outraged or not?

And HL2 was in development for far longer than the plan to shoe horn steam in with it. The comparison is more apt now than ever. The only difference is the money is coming from outside vs valve profiting even more itself.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,074
Why didn't Epic think of that? Just make a client overnight that beats what Steam offers

Steam, with 15 years as the market leader, 15 years of knowledge and experience, of pushing innovation

It seems so obvious now, just make a client better than Steam. I have no idea why they didn't put a few weeks aside and *checks notes* "just beat Steam at their own game"

Interesting how Valve is, according to the arguments paraded around on this forum, both doing nothing at all for PC gamers and sitting on their laurels and improving and innovating to the point that it's completely impossible for a massive engineering company like Epic to come even close to matching their feature set.

The reality is that Epic isn't even matching basic customer-facing features that Valve implemented literally a decade ago. And that they could very easily do so: their priorities are clearly buying third party exclusives rather than providing a decent service.
 

UsoEwin

Banned
Jul 14, 2018
2,063
Interesting how Valve is, according to the arguments paraded around on this forum, both doing nothing at all for PC gamers and sitting on their laurels and improving and innovating to the point that it's completely impossible for a massive engineering company like Epic to come even close to matching their feature set.

The reality is that Epic isn't even matching basic customer-facing features that Valve implemented literally a decade ago. And that they could very easily do so: their priorities are clearly buying third party exclusives rather than providing a decent service.
It's almost like they don't have an argument to stand on, and are just throwing shit out to try and validate the false narrative they came up with in their head.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,795
Interesting how Valve is, according to the arguments paraded around on this forum, both doing nothing at all for PC gamers and sitting on their laurels and improving and innovating to the point that it's completely impossible for a massive engineering company like Epic to come even close to matching their feature set.

Lol, that is a truly excellent point.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I bet the epic store can match some of the more basic features in as little as five years. Think of it like the tortoise and the hare. We're rooting for that tortoise because we love competition. And there's a chance he'll catch up. Just give it time. You see, in the story, the rabbit falls asleep or he gets drunk or something and the tortoise eventually wins. That's precisely what's going to happen here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,883
If l was a game dev and managed to increase profits by 18% just moving to another store front heck i'd pull my game from Steam too.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
If l was a game dev and managed to increase profits by 18% just moving to another store front heck i'd pull my game from Steam too.
Reality is far more complicated than that -- you have to figure out if those 18% is worth the loss of access and essentially free marketing generated by being on the Steam storefront. My guess is no. Assuming adoption will be the same on the Epic Store is asinine and misguided. And anyone who believes Epic won't make moves in the future to take a bigger cut as 30% is industry standard is just delusional.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,030
I bet the epic store can match some of the more basic features in as little as five years. Think of it like the tortoise and the hare. We're rooting for that tortoise because we love competition. And there's a chance he'll catch up. Just give it time. You see, in the story, the rabbit falls asleep or he gets drunk or something and the tortoise eventually wins. That's precisely what's going to happen here.
I desperately hope this is sarcasm. Epic is a multi-billion dollar company who have been in the PC market for over 10 years. They are now using anti-competitive practices to ensure they have no competition to put pressure on them selling these titles. This has led to higher prices and the game being unavailable for sale in regions it was previously available.

Trying to say they are the tortoise is totally insane

Edit:Grammer and spelling
 
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Custódio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,899
Brazil, Unaí/MG
Unpopular opinion, but I still think this is a legitimate tactic. A lot of platforms do it and it's always been a part of the gaming landscape in one way or another. It's lazy and it doesn't really benefit anyone and it's awesome that valve abstains from this behavior, but I don't quite hate it.

A lot of console platforms do It. Paying to have third party exclusivity was unseen on the PC space.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,106
okay but hasn't anyone else realized that the epic store doesn't even have a search panel?????????
I also hope people know that Epic's user base is mainly not on PC. There's roughly 10-20 million PC Fortnite Players. and even less are probably not kids who don't use their parents credit cards to pay for their vbucks. I mean Epic seriously needs to reconsider who they are selling these games to and publishers need to see that their "golden goose" isn''t really golden but fools gold.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
I bet the epic store can match some of the more basic features in as little as five years. Think of it like the tortoise and the hare. We're rooting for that tortoise because we love competition. And there's a chance he'll catch up. Just give it time. You see, in the story, the rabbit falls asleep or he gets drunk or something and the tortoise eventually wins. That's precisely what's going to happen here.
xD

What's there to search? Everything will be featured equally on the front page at all times. The indie developer dream finally realized.
xD
 

Arulan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,571
Interesting how Valve is, according to the arguments paraded around on this forum, both doing nothing at all for PC gamers and sitting on their laurels and improving and innovating to the point that it's completely impossible for a massive engineering company like Epic to come even close to matching their feature set.

The reality is that Epic isn't even matching basic customer-facing features that Valve implemented literally a decade ago. And that they could very easily do so: their priorities are clearly buying third party exclusives rather than providing a decent service.

Disingenuous console warriors have no problem with hypocrisy, they're just trying to win for their favorite platform-holder.

As I said in the other thread, it doesn't matter what games they get. This bullshit cannot be tolerated. Sooner or later they will get something you care about, and that's when you have to make the decision whether to support a practice designed to fuck you over into using their store, or just wait a year.

I will for one will firmly do the latter. There are so many good games released every year, not to mention past releases, that I don't need to play games on release. If I still want to play them then, they'll be cheaper, and in a better state.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
Only the games industry will holy platform warriors claim that someone being in the business is a proper excuse for not providing a modern product.

This is a new way of thinking for the rest of the world.

AMD has been doing it wrong, instead of trying to move forward, they should say their competitors are too far ahead and just make a card from 10 years ago and release it today!

Ford has been doing it wrong in trying to compete with Toyota, they need to release a car from 2004 in order to compete, and then say Toyota is too far ahead, that will show them, people will come running.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I'm tickled by the idea that tying up exclusives like this is absolutely necessary. At the same time, valve is apparently so riddled with deficiencies and beset with unhappy campers from every direction. One would think that there are many ways to compete with valve by improving on the supposedly crappy job they do, and the supposedly obvious things they don't.

Yet the one measure that is absolutely non negotiable is withdrawing a select few games from competing stores. What about trying to improve on valve's do-nothing fuck shop? Never gonna work. Because.

Because.
 

Gankzymcfly

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
643
Epic is actively giving money to publishers to take things away from the customers (in this case the freedom to choose where we'd like to purchase the game, or buy the game at all in certain part of the world) and some people in this thread are arguing that this is great for the consumers.

Holy. Shit.

You know, part of me hope that those people are astroturfers, because the alternative would be even worse.

Its good for developers, independent studios and games in general (a point that nobody has really tried to argue against but continues to ignore as is evidenced by my lengthy post earlier that has gone unaddressed). Additionally one could easily argue more stability for smaller studios leads to more games which is arguably better for the consumers as well.

The narrative here is twisted, your saying blame Epic for taking our toys away but the reality is the devs in almost every circumstance where a deal has been made, didn't need to make the deal. The games were getting released regardless of platform. The only thing i find shady are the devs/studios/publishers that gauge interest for their game by allowing preorders on various platforms, then when projected interest is likely below expectation, cutting a deal with a third party to screw over a handful of people who already payed for the game on a platform it will no longer be available on for an extended period of time. That shit is shady as all hell, but i wouldn't blame the third party thats just trying to invest in its own store. I blame the studio that went looking for golden parachutes.

Guys, I don't think the 'blame the developers' angle is going to stick. It's been pitched like four times now. No one's biting.

And yet nobody can tell me why i shouldn't blame them... additionally im so confused because earlier i was told that we are finally criticizing the devs and studios as well, instead of being complete hypocrites (which i was happy to hear) but your post would have me believe that we have devolved back towards the "we can't blame these smaller studios from taking handouts" point of view.
 

Courage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,978
NYC
The only way I can see this possibly being a net positive is if Valve actually react to this and adjust their cut to developers. It's truly the one thing Epic and Discord have on them at this point and it'd be dumb to at least not consider repairing some of that goodwill with devs.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
Interesting how Valve is, according to the arguments paraded around on this forum, both doing nothing at all for PC gamers and sitting on their laurels and improving and innovating to the point that it's completely impossible for a massive engineering company like Epic to come even close to matching their feature set.

The reality is that Epic isn't even matching basic customer-facing features that Valve implemented literally a decade ago. And that they could very easily do so: their priorities are clearly buying third party exclusives rather than providing a decent service.

This is a fantastic post and both of your paragraphs drive home important points.


-------
okay but hasn't anyone else realized that the epic store doesn't even have a search panel?????????
They said that instead of adding a search feature to the store they were going to look into relying on twitch/youtubers to promote the games with them getting kickbacks.

I really wish this was a joke but it's what Epic's Sergey Galyonkin said on a podcast (he then said the OP of that thread was mischaracterizing what he said and then proceeded to paraphrase what daxy accurately detailed)
The central idea of this is that developers provide influencers with referral links to their games, which gives content creators and the like the possibility to earn a share of a game's sale if it is bought through them. Galyonkin explains that currently the default cut is set at 5%, and, as part of an ongoing promotion, Epic will cover this for developers. Right now, developers aren't losing any extra share of a sale's revenue above the 12% cut that the EGS takes for their services. Developers can change the cut that influencers get to whatever they want – from 0% all the way to 100%. In any case, Epic will cover the first 5% at the moment.

Here's where an interesting question arises, and I'm a little surprised that this hasn't been elaborated on yet or been questioned more broadly by the press, because it is such an incredibly important detail. On their blog, Epic has stated that "[to] jumpstart the creator economy, Epic will cover the first 5% of creator revenue-sharing for the first 24 months." If this is taken as the first 24 months since the store's launch rather than a game's launch – which was my impression – then in 2021, if developers want their game to gain visibility, they will be losing a share of their cut for a subset of sales.
 
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Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
And yet nobody can tell me why i shouldn't blame them... additionally im so confused because earlier i was told that we are finally criticizing the devs and studios as well, instead of being complete hypocrites (which i was happy to hear) but your post would have me believe that we have devolved back towards the "we can't blame these smaller studios from taking handouts" point of view.

If you feel like you have some traction, I'm all about it. I believe in you. I'm sending love and you're going to need it because you have a huge ship to turn around if you want to get the heat off epic.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,145
Indonesia
Interesting how Valve is, according to the arguments paraded around on this forum, both doing nothing at all for PC gamers and sitting on their laurels and improving and innovating to the point that it's completely impossible for a massive engineering company like Epic to come even close to matching their feature set.

The reality is that Epic isn't even matching basic customer-facing features that Valve implemented literally a decade ago. And that they could very easily do so: their priorities are clearly buying third party exclusives rather than providing a decent service.
This post needs to be stickied at the top of every Steam/Epic related thread.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
I mean, I'm torn. Review-bombing is dumb, whether the cause is Epic exclusivity or female warriors in Total War. But on the flip-side, the removal of choice in where to purchase a product is an entirely legitimate thing to complain about, and what else can customers do? It wasn't long ago that letter-writing campaigns were a legitimate form of protest/support that got results, but Metro's deal is done-and-dusted, and the people making the deals just care about money, so *shrugs*
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,091
I mean, I'm torn. Review-bombing is dumb, whether the cause is Epic exclusivity or female warriors in Total War. But on the flip-side, the removal of choice in where to purchase a product is an entirely legitimate thing to complain about, and what else can customers do? It wasn't long ago that letter-writing campaigns were a legitimate form of protest/support that got results, but Metro's deal is done-and-dusted, and the people making the deals just care about money, so *shrugs*
Hopefully Deep Silver and other publishers will see this backlash and be less inclined to take Epic money hats in future.

Or require more payment upfront, making the strategy less viable in the long term for Epic.
 
state of the store competition

Deleted member 5864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,725
Its good for developers, independent studios and games in general (a point that nobody has really tried to argue against but continues to ignore as is evidenced by my lengthy post earlier that has gone unaddressed). Additionally one could easily argue more stability for smaller studios leads to more games which is arguably better for the consumers as well.
Because it's only good for the handpicked, already high profile developers they are moneyhatting and not the panacea it's been sold as for the rest of the thousands of independent developers who are fighting in a super competitive industry and also yearning free from the shackles of Steam and the supposed mountains of shit software it "promotes". It goes ignored because it has been argued plenty of times before and like most arguments in recent PC threads it falls on deaf ears.

Independent studios beefs with Valve have been lengthy and for a variety of reasons. First it was that the gates were locked and a lot of studios couldn't get in and their curation process wasn't transparent. Between the humble bundles and prominent sales there was a gold rush for what we would now consider lower or middle of the road quality games which would end up on everyone's library simply because building up a collection of varied, affordable, community driven releases was desirable. Sales were platform wide events that garnered ridiculous amounts of attention and Valve's experimenting with different models (Free to play, hats, sales achievements, rewards (including whole games) for participating and logging in daily, the marketplace, etc. etc. etc.).

Then as more and more games made it into the system competition got more fierce and sales and cheap bundle keys got abused, indies starting lamenting the "devaluation" of independent games (something they happily contributed to as long as it was insanely profitable) and asked for more curation tools. Things like the Greenlight system happened, and other multiple competing stores and models started to pop up outside of Valve. Some failed, some are still around, greenlight got abused by developers and customers alike and imperfect a system as it as, it also became a point of contention for them.

Then the doors were truly opened to allow all of those frustrated independent developers out there who were still struggling to get in, in an attempt to make the field more fair. But the downside of course is that there is even more competition and more quality games. But it's not the only thing that has happened either. In the time all of this came to be, tools and engines have made it easier for a lot of people to make quality stuff. Plenty of storied developers long in the tooth at large publishing houses left their ranks to do smaller stuff. Kickstarter and indiegogo happened. Twitch and influencers happened, where a pewdiepide figure can play a game like flappy bird and propel it to be played by millions on his popularity alone. Major developments in the industry and market make it so that sure fire hits like Audiosurf and Beat Hazard and Winterbottom and whatever Runner wouldn't stand out anymore. We have GOTY quality stuff constantly standing out from the independent market every month, and that competition resulted in fewer dollars from consumers to go around. Then the sights moved to Steam's cut, an industry standard cut that suddenly became unfair because the platform continues to grow while these guaranteed successes dried up or became subject to many other factors.

Discoverability has become an issue of a thriving industry not just for Valve, but Steam gets a lot of the stick for it instead of all the above causes for the flooding the PC and independent space has seen. Some games have suffered, yes, but if you mean to tell me that Epic's approach is "good for the industry and for consumers" because it provides economic stability to an insignificant % of already well established independent developers I have a very long bridge to sell you. If you are one of the lucky ones to get on the ground floor of their platform launch and aggressive PR moves, good for you. I don't see how that improves the industry when it's a crapshoot the developers most affected will ever benefit from it. Epic's plan is to eventually open its store for submissions and release around 150 to 200 games A MONTH. Do you think they are going to guarantee the financial well-being of all those games like they are doing for a handful of high profiles now? Do you think they will not run into the same discoverability issues? And even worse, all their plans for influencers to dictate and directly benefit from being the high profile players of the curation process will bring about a whole host of other nasty issues when it comes to healthy competition.

The market is competitive and a lot of studios won't make it even though they totally feel they are entitled to a piece of the pie. Like people love reminding us when stanning for Epic's brand of "shark" competition, this is a business. Businesses fail. No one has a guaranteed market. Good games are competing against other increasingly great offerings more and more. This perfect, smartly curated launcher where the cut is in the single digits, submission is fast and hassle free, the developer is shielded from every negative opinion, where every passionate and hardworking independent developer big and small who considers themselves worthy of the PC market's attention, who will benefit from the same visibility that AAA stuff does, that will be able find a wide audience at full price forever without involving 3rd party storefronts, is a dream that will never exist. Steam is far from perfect, but to believe moneyhatting exclusives and taking purchasing options away from consumers is good for everyone and will lead to more, better games, is disingenuous at best.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
Hopefully Deep Silver and other publishers will see this backlash and be less inclined to take Epic money hats in future.

Or require more payment upfront, making the strategy less viable in the long term for Epic.

Yeah, hopefully... In the meantime, though, I'm wondering how many devs/pubs are looking at the current "no reviews" policy of the Epic store and thinking it's a good thing. After all, no review bombing. :/
 

Ionic

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,734
Yeah, hopefully... In the meantime, though, I'm wondering how many devs/pubs are looking at the current "no reviews" policy of the Epic store and thinking it's a good thing. After all, no review bombing. :/

You do however net a few days of intense criticism from most online gaming communities.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Because it's only good for the handpicked, already high profile developers they are moneyhatting and not the panacea it's been sold as for the rest of the thousands of independent developers who are fighting in a super competitive industry and also yearning free from the shackles of Steam and the supposed mountains of shit software it "promotes". It goes ignored because it has been argued plenty of times before and like most arguments in recent PC threads it falls on deaf ears.

Independent studios beefs with Valve have been lengthy and for a variety of reasons. First it was that the gates were locked and a lot of studios couldn't get in and their curation process wasn't transparent. Between the humble bundles and prominent sales there was a gold rush for what we would now consider lower or middle of the road quality games which would end up on everyone's library simply because building up a collection of varied, affordable, community driven releases was desirable. Sales were platform wide events that garnered ridiculous amounts of attention and Valve's experimenting with different models (Free to play, hats, sales achievements, rewards (including whole games) for participating and logging in daily, the marketplace, etc. etc. etc.).

Then as more and more games made it into the system competition got more fierce and sales and cheap bundle keys got abused, indies starting lamenting the "devaluation" of independent games (something they happily contributed to as long as it was insanely profitable) and asked for more curation tools. Things like the Greenlight system happened, and other multiple competing stores and models started to pop up outside of Valve. Some failed, some are still around, greenlight got abused by developers and customers alike and imperfect a system as it as, it also became a point of contention for them.

Then the doors were truly opened to allow all of those frustrated independent developers out there who were still struggling to get in, in an attempt to make the field more fair. But the downside of course is that there is even more competition and more quality games. But it's not the only thing that has happened either. In the time all of this came to be, tools and engines have made it easier for a lot of people to make quality stuff. Plenty of storied developers long in the tooth at large publishing houses left their ranks to do smaller stuff. Kickstarter and indiegogo happened. Twitch and influencers happened, where a pewdiepide figure can play a game like flappy bird and propel it to be played by millions on his popularity alone. Major developments in the industry and market make it so that sure fire hits like Audiosurf and Beat Hazard and Winterbottom and whatever Runner wouldn't stand out anymore. We have GOTY quality stuff constantly standing out from the independent market every month, and that competition resulted in fewer dollars from consumers to go around. Then the sights moved to Steam's cut, an industry standard cut that suddenly became unfair because the platform continues to grow while these guaranteed successes dried up or became subject to many other factors.

Discoverability has become an issue of a thriving industry not just for Valve, but Steam gets a lot of the stick for it instead of all the above causes for the flooding the PC and independent space has seen. Some games have suffered, yes, but if you mean to tell me that Epic's approach is "good for the industry and for consumers" because it provides economic stability to an insignificant % of already well established independent developers I have a very long bridge to sell you. If you are one of the lucky ones to get on the ground floor of their platform launch and aggressive PR moves, good for you. I don't see how that improves the industry when it's a crapshoot the developers most affected will ever benefit from it. Epic's plan is to eventually open its store for submissions and release around 150 to 200 games A MONTH. Do you think they are going to guarantee the financial well-being of all those games like they are doing for a handful of high profiles now? Do you think they will not run into the same discoverability issues? And even worse, all their plans for influencers to dictate and directly benefit from being the high profile players of the curation process will bring about a whole host of other nasty issues when it comes to healthy competition.

The market is competitive and a lot of studios won't make it even though they totally feel they are entitled to a piece of the pie. Like people love reminding us when stanning for Epic's brand of "shark" competition, this is a business. Businesses fail. No one has a guaranteed market. Good games are competing against other increasingly great offerings more and more. This perfect, smartly curated launcher where the cut is in the single digits, submission is fast and hassle free, the developer is shielded from every negative opinion, where every passionate and hardworking independent developer big and small who considers themselves worthy of the PC market's attention, who will benefit from the same visibility that AAA stuff does, that will be able find a wide audience at full price forever without involving 3rd party storefronts, is a dream that will never exist. Steam is far from perfect, but to believe moneyhatting exclusives and taking purchasing options away from consumers is good for everyone and will lead to more, better games, is disingenuous at best.

Every thread about the Epic store should just be this post.

Not that it would stop the shitposting.