Era, I worry about my brother heading down a dark path politically. Advice?

[aGuyInaBearSuit]

My older brother seems like a generally smart dude, he's married, has a full-time decent job, has a house and has a newborn daughter. We were at a family gathering recently and I heard some troubling stuff from him, specifically that he saw a video about Sandy Hook that shocked him, started talking about crisis actors and weird inconsistencies. Later, he started talking about how he's taken up listening to the Joe Rogan Experience at work, a show that's a half-step away from being the Gavin McInnes show these days.

I tried to bring up my concern regarding this with my mom but made the mistake of using the term "alt-right", which caused her, a fairly conservative woman, to instead start ranting about the imaginary "alt-left" and about how my stances are too dyed in the wool and how I'm too stubborn.

I worry about my brother potentially being radicalized by awful people, but he's an adult who is free to make his own decisions. What's the right approach?

 

[xxracerxx]

Once you start thinking the Sandy Hook tragedy is a hoax, all hope is lost.

 

[carlsojo]

He's an adult free to make his own dumb decisions. It really depends on how close you two are and how much you can really influence him. My idiot brother could care less what I tell him or what I think unfortunately so I've had to let it go.

 

[Grexeno]

your family is done

 

[Based0ne]

At this point leave it be, trying to alter someone’s opinion nowadays just doesn’t work. They either learn with consequences from their differing opinions or don’t.

 

[CreepingFear]

At least you're an adult, aren't you? You can go your separate ways if need be. It happens all the time.

 

[Based0ne]

At least you're an adult, aren't you? You can go your separate ways if need be. It happens all the time.

Click to shrink...

I feel like this is a hard option that has to be done. Being brought up with family values makes it super hard to do so.

 

[low-G]

I will say like 10 years ago, when Alex Jones was only completely insane wacko instead of dangerous war criminal, my dad listened to him a lot.

One day me and my mom just grilled him and grilled him about it. Alex Jones was actually relatively apolitical back at this time, but he just spouted nonsense and lies.

It didn’t take too long before my dad stopped listening to him. I’m not sure how we did it. I think since Alex Jones is so exceptionally dipshitty and both me and my mom can form a real good argument and reason with him. And he was listening not because he was emotionally disturbed (which I believe is a very common cause of retreat into fantasy) we were able to save him in time.

You have a much harder path, and there are probably exhasperating circumstances, but I wish you the best.

 

[Kadin]

The only thing I can say is that those close to me with who I'd rather not sever the relationship, simply do not discuss politics. It has gotten to the point where I've just up and walked out, calmly, simply stating that I don't want to be involved in the discussion. That's as far as I'm willing to take it.

Trying to change their pov is not something I'm willing to do and I have to let them think and act as they wish. It's simply not worth the time or energy. Being that this is your brother is obviously hard but I'd have to say you need to try and take a similar approach. Clearly it can make you uncomfortable, and rightfully so, but he gets to make his own decisions when it comes down to what he chooses to believe. You don't have to like it, but not sure there's really an 'approach' to helping you other than this.

 

[Rayne]

At least you're an adult, aren't you? You can go your separate ways if need be. It happens all the time.

Click to shrink...

This sadly.

I mean you can try to pull him out but there's a good chance that'll just make him dig his heels in.

 

[CreepingFear]

I feel like this is a hard option that has to be done. Being brought up with family values makes it super hard to do so.

Click to shrink...

I can deal with someone who "wants lower taxes" or believes in "so called smaller government". I can't deal with someone who supports a bully, a sexist, a racist, and a treasonous con artist.

 

[Eylos]

If he listen to what you say, Just talk calmly everyday and show other youtubers from the left, contra points, hbomberguy etc etc. If he already has a negative predisposition of what you say, maybe a good Idea is to introduce your brother to some of your friends on the left, for a babercue or whatever and talk to your friends previously to have patience, easy way to change Someone is good friends i believe.

I think.

 

[CrocM]

Don't let him exist in an echo chamber, speak up and say something if you care about him. Even if it's a simple "I don't believe in that".

 

[Rvaan]

You might have to find a new family. I'm not sure you can save them if they are talking about the "alt-left."

 

[CallMeShaft]

If you think a mass school shooting was staged in an attempt to push gun control, you're probably too far gone.

Doesn't help that your mother is a conservative. That likely means that he was raised with those values and it's now ingrained into him.

 

[aGuyInaBearSuit]

If you think a mass school shooting was staged in an attempt to push gun control, you're probably too far gone.

Doesn't help that your mother is a conservative. That likely means that he was raised with those values and it's now ingrained into him.

Click to shrink...

Dad has been a Fox News conservative since Bush Jr. as well. My mom claims she's a "moderate conservative" but if I state a single left-wing talking point she goes off about how I'm extreme or how I'm putting politics above family.

 

[Prophaniti]

Tell him how you feel?

 

[Temp_User]

Start small. Find his biggest 'comfort' source of alt-right views and make him realize just how bullsh1t it is. It could be a person (or group of persons), or a website.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

Yeah I had to cut a friend out of my life because of this same shit. Kept bringing up any random conspiracy theory she came across to bitch about people wanting gun reform and kept repeating he term "alt-left" and making (wildly incorrect) presumptions about me when I tried to suggest she might want to not focus on extremes and instead focus on people who are actually looking at data and trying to do something that makes sense.

It's tough, because the first desire is to try and talk with the person and reach some level of understanding and rationally explain why their stance is flawed and possibly harmful. But the problem is that the other person must be willing to listen and abandon/question their own premises. I tried that with a different friend exactly two weeks ago (both of these people I've known for over a decade) and he kept interrupting me all Ben Shapiro-like to put words in my mouth and presume my points to paint me as part of the "dying left" (I label myself as a lapsed conservative soooo) and mock me. He did this to the point I lost my patience and got heated and was kicked out of the establishment we were at lol. At least that convinced me to stop drinking and I've been sober ever since, so that was a plus.

I don't know how to bridge that gap, and the more I attempt it and watch it end in failure, the more I feel like it's not really worth the effort. I remove those people from my life now.

 

[Rvaan]

Dad has been a Fox News conservative since Bush Jr. as well. My mom claims she's a "moderate conservative" but if I state a single left-wing talking point she goes off about how I'm extreme or how I'm putting politics above family.

Click to shrink...

If your dad is a Fox News die hard and your mom is doing that when you bring up left-wing talking points then they are miles past the point of no return.

 

[ishan]

Basically don’t make them defensive if it’s a family member they will listen to you . So explain with experiences try and portray similar things in their lives etc things like think about this ? What about something like this ?

They have to make up their mind themselves if you’re going to make an opinion change . You can guide tho .confrintational pushes them away further or reentreches them imo .

EDit: also admit things at fault on your side . Otherwise you come off as holier than thou . I mean there are some ultra wacko left ppl too. Mention skepticism of what they watch but also prove you’re not one sided by noticing it on your side too. Ppl listen more then

Edit 2 : don’t expect immediate results let it sink in let them think what you said over time they’ll think it’s a slow process but as it’s your brother it’s worth the effort imo

 

[Quick]

Tell him how you feel?

Click to shrink...

This. You talked to your mom, but not him? Do that, and see how it goes.

I’d say call out the bullshit as it comes up, and hope he figures it out.

 

[CallMeShaft]

If your dad is a Fox News die hard and your mom is doing that when you bring up left-wing talking points then they are miles past the point of no return.

Click to shrink...

Yep, I agree with this.

Can't teach an old dog new tricks OP.

 

[jaekeem]

be open to him about your concerns

hopefully he doesn't get defensive and double down. if he does...well *shrug* you tried.

 

[Quad Lasers]

Your brother talking about Sandy Hook crisis actors means he's already gone, OP.

 

[Blackie]

My brother started down this path years ago. I ignored it until 2017 then started a dialogue with him, trying to change his mind about conspiracies/alt stuff. He refused to change, spouted more bigotry/nonsense. I lost my temper. We argued. At a certain point I got so mad it was impossible to continue talking. I had to cut him out of my life since then. Was quite painful. I miss who he used to be, however I am starting a family and consider him too dangerous of an element now to have around.

Hope things work out better for you :(

 

[Reverse Giraffe]

Wow. I'm really sorry about that.
If someone says that Sandy Hook was a hoax, I'm not really trying to hear anything else they're trying to say.
But he's your brother.
What can you do realistically?

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I honestly don't even know how to approach Sandy Hook truthism. I managed to get my sister away from being a 9/11 truther, but that's probably a lot less malicious.

 

[Akira86]

you can try to talk to him and understand why he thinks those people are so correct. What it is they say that resonates with him that makes him want to continue to listen. if you understand where he comes from you can probably empathize better and connect to him with your argument better. So you can slow his progression, and maybe engage him enough that he at least thinks about what you're saying and addresses your fears.

he's worrying about youtube conspiracies when there's a walking conspiracy in the white house on the phone with Putin right now. Tell him to not get lost in all the noise trying to find the signal.

 

[HDMF76]

The Sandy Hook thing is too far for sure.

The Joe Rogan thing though, thats nothing to do with alt-right at all. This forum worries me at times. I got a warning for mentioning Jordan Peterson once, stating I was a supporter of an 'alt-right figurehead'. If people took time to watch their stuff and listen they are not alt-right at all.

Having a clear knowledge of the political spectrum would help you at least try to to reach him. Otherwise you could come across as the opposite end to him and he wont listen at all.

Often it seems people get labelled incorrectly because one side of the fence see them as threatening. They then smear them as being the complete opposite so they dont have to listen to them at all. (Not implying you are doing this OP, just saying).

Joe Rogan has some great talks that just promote human understanding and kindness, and give great insight into politics as well.

I know its a touchy subject, and as I said that Sandy Hook stance is fucked up, but dont write him off using Joe Rogan podcasts as another reason to call him alt-right, he will rightly ignore you about that. Politics upsets people, like I said I was modded just for mentiining JBP (if mods want to do that again just delete my whole account as I wholeheartedly disagree with that system).

I grew up with Maajid Nawaz and still speak to him regularly. He is a lovely guy and would do anything for anyone. He has been smeared as a Muslim extremist even though he dedicates his life to the exact opposite. People queue up to join the bandwagon against him without knowing anywhere near enough. Even though the SPLC admitted they were wrong enough about him to pay out $3m damages for saying exactly this. The world can be crazy.

 

[aGuyInaBearSuit]

The Sandy Hook thing is too far for sure.

The Joe Rogan thing though, thats nothing to do with alt-right at all. This forum worries me at times. I got a warning for mentioning Jordan Peterson once, stating I was a supporter of an 'alt-right figurehead'. If people took time to watch their stuff and listen they are not alt-right at all.

Having a clear knowledge of the political spectrum would help you at least try to to reach him. Otherwise you could come across as the opposite end to him and he wont listen at all.

Often it seems people get labelled incorrectly because one side of the fence see them as threatening. They then smear them as being the complete opposite so they dont have to listen to them at all. (Not implying you are doing this OP, just saying).

Joe Rogan has some great talks that just promote human understanding and kindness, and give great insight into politics as well.

I know its a touchy subject, and as I said that Sandy Hook stance is fucked up, but dont write him off using Joe Rogan podcasts as another reason to call him alt-right, he will rightly ignore you about that. Politics upsets people, like I said I was modded just for mentiining JBP (if mods want to do that again just delete my whole account as I wholeheartedly disagree with that system).

I grew up with Maajid Nawaz and still speak to him regularly. He is a lovely guy and would do anything for anyone. He has been smeared as a Muslim extremist even though he dedicates his life to the exact opposite. People queue up to join the bandwagon against him without knowing anywhere near enough. Even though the SPLC admitted they were wrong enough about him to pay out $3m damages for saying exactly this. The world can be crazy.

Click to shrink...

Rogan's show has really gone off the rails over the last year or so, often bringing in far-right guests and allowing them to spew their harmful bullshit unchallenged. He recently had noted psychopath and child rapist Ted Nugent on the show. IMO he's been chasing that right wing audience and it's turned his show into a platform for some awful views.

 

[Skelepuzzle]

My mom claims she's a "moderate conservative" but if I state a single left-wing talking point she goes off about how I'm extreme or how I'm politics above family.

Click to shrink...

I'm not trying to be shitty here but there's probably nothing you can do for any of them. Once that line comes out it's part of their identity, and you are the other.

 

[Deleted member 17810]

The Sandy Hook thing is too far for sure.

The Joe Rogan thing though, thats nothing to do with alt-right at all. This forum worries me at times. I got a warning for mentioning Jordan Peterson once, stating I was a supporter of an 'alt-right figurehead'. If people took time to watch their stuff and listen they are not alt-right at all.

Having a clear knowledge of the political spectrum would help you at least try to to reach him. Otherwise you could come across as the opposite end to him and he wont listen at all.

Often it seems people get labelled incorrectly because one side of the fence see them as threatening. They then smear them as being the complete opposite so they dont have to listen to them at all. (Not implying you are doing this OP, just saying).

Joe Rogan has some great talks that just promote human understanding and kindness, and give great insight into politics as well.

I know its a touchy subject, and as I said that Sandy Hook stance is fucked up, but dont write him off using Joe Rogan podcasts as another reason to call him alt-right, he will rightly ignore you about that. Politics upsets people, like I said I was modded just for mentiining JBP (if mods want to do that again just delete my whole account as I wholeheartedly disagree with that system).

I grew up with Maajid Nawaz and still speak to him regularly. He is a lovely guy and would do anything for anyone. He has been smeared as a Muslim extremist even though he dedicates his life to the exact opposite. People queue up to join the bandwagon against him without knowing anywhere near enough. Even though the SPLC admitted they were wrong enough about him to pay out $3m damages for saying exactly this. The world can be crazy.

Click to shrink...

There’s a lot that I could get into here, but Peterson is a charlatan who’s using his notoriety to scare young white men into being more socially oppressive with barely coherent theories about “cultural Marxism” and “lobsters”.

While exploration is required on “low status males” and how they are treated in society and the consequences of that, Peterson is just another hack using “free speech” as a way of imposing his oppressive tendencies on people.

_______

As for Rogan? The guy is a total meathead who used to think the moonlanding was faked. He’s an entrepreneur who wants to get sponsorships and talk about issues that are controversial, with controversial people in order to get more views/clicks/ads.

 

[MrRob]

Agree that once someone is willing to even entertain the thought that babies being murdered was some kind of conspiracy their humanity card is revoked in my eyes.

Sucks it happened to your brother but you need to face the reality that he's a shitty human being for even entertaining the thought. Sickening.

 

[boris_feinbrand]

Asking Era for advice? Better just give up. There's nothing to be done. Once the sign of the scarlet letter appear, it is too late. Go save yourself, your brother is already Heinrich Himmler.

Back in the real world:

Show him that his words hurt people, including you. Sympathising with others can be hard, so it's easier if it's a member of your family. Let him know that he is about to push you away. I can't guarantee that it will work. I had good experiences with this approach and seen change happen. But since you obviously care for your brother you have to try.

 

[Bear Patrol]

You can try to talk to your brother, if you like. As far as , after numerous attempts to do this in my own life with my relatives, I've come to the conclusion that you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into (not my quote but one I heard on the internet). I've had one or two people come around on specific topics but only after it materially impacted them or someone/something they care about in some way.

The Sandy Hook thing is too far for sure.

The Joe Rogan thing though, thats nothing to do with alt-right at all. This forum worries me at times. I got a warning for mentioning Jordan Peterson once, stating I was a supporter of an 'alt-right figurehead'. If people took time to watch their stuff and listen they are not alt-right at all.

Click to shrink...

I've listened to Jordan Peterson. If he's not alt-right, he's at the least very racist and sexist...which doesn't seem to be any different.

 

[DorkyMohr]

Beat him up.

 

[Don Fluffles]

Listen to him. Ask how he feels and what he wants. Try to get to the emotions behind his decisions. A lot of people join neo-nazi movements because they were outcasts and got lured into the crowds. Figure them out and ask them to debate those feelings.

 

[Vern]

Sounds like my brother. He has always been pretty liberal like the rest of our family but for the past year or two has been listening to joe rogan and some weird conspiracy podcasts and suddenly he thinks there are too many welfare leeches and maybe the cops should shoot “criminals” and other right wing talking points. He doesn’t blame the minorities yet thankfully, he claims that welfare leeches and criminals are white people too so he’s not fully onboard. He both sides a few issues like the riots in Berkeley awhile back, and probably the one back east that got that girl killed... I fear he will only get worse but who knows. Hope he gets over listening to these stupid podcasts that influence him in weird ways. It’s weird how 35 years of life experience can be wiped out by a year or two of goofy radio personalities.

 

[BocoDragon]

I never posted in the Joe Rogan = alt-right thread to rebut it because.... yeah I get it. I don't think he's personally alt-right, but he is very loose with his associations and does himself no favours. That's not a podcast that will make you alt-right, but it certainly won't challenge you if you are.

But the podcast has like 16 million+ downloads a month and is incredibly mainstream listening. That's not a red flag to me at all. I'm pretty sure you could point at every third male with headphones on the subway and he's probably a Rogan subscriber. All the other stuff the OP said about his brother was red flag enough though.

 

[Thorn]

If he is a Sandy Hook truther he's too far gone.

 

[aGuyInaBearSuit]

I'm not trying to be shitty here but there's probably nothing you can do for any of them. Once that line comes out it's part of their identity, and you are the other.

Click to shrink...

I've always been the black sheep of the family in that regard, I suppose. But I still want to be able to maintain that familial relationship.

 

[Tapeworm]

Sandy Hook deniers should be launched into the sun. There is no value someone that stupid/gullible can offer society.

 

[Skelepuzzle]

I've always been the black sheep of the family in that regard, I suppose. But I still want to be able to maintain that familial relationship.

Click to shrink...

I didn't mean that you should sever your ties since that's a pretty rough decision. You just might not get to talk about politics without a huge argument where everyone is against you. Being outnumbered here is a problem.

You can hope that once Trump is no longer president that this crazy right wing shit falls out of favor with people in general. Many Republicans conveniently disliked Bush after his presidency and forgot that they supported a pointless war. I doubt history will look kindly on this movement and its pushers, unless we become a dystopian hell hole.

 

[KamalaHarris]

Your brother might lack empathy, start with that

 

[gogosox82]

It might be too late if he’s believing in Sandy Hook conspiracies tbh. I would talk to him and challenge him on some of this stuff but if he seems dead set in believing that stuff I’d just let it go. He is a grown man who can make his own decisions.

 

[BlackAdder]

I would say something to him about Sandy Hook conspiracy theories being stupid.

However there is nothing wrong with listening to Joe Rogan. Guy makes an entertaining podcast.

 

[SaviourMK2]

If he's willing to fall for the propaganda machine there's no stopping the fall, they're unwilling to listen after a certain point. I can only wish you luck.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Your first mistake was talking to your mom about this instead of just discussing your feelings with your brother.

 

[kamineko]

Sandy Hook is, as others have said, pretty far down the road.

It is hard, sometimes, to be loving while remaining authentic. Doable, but very hard. Good luck, TC