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Coricus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,537
I hate constantly picking up weapons. There is no point to except busywork. It's bad game design and unfun IMO.
The point on a design level is to get you to try more than one kind of weapon. Whether or not it worked is another thing, but that is a point LOL

On a gameplay level it's not the best incentivized, but there at least is a small attempt to encourage it in that a weapon that breaks deals significantly more damage and knockback than normal.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,052
Okay to be serious, it tears the "Ubisoft formula" down to its bare essentials and is better for it.

It gives you less information about what's out there, returning an actual sense of mystery to exploring its world. It's also uncommonly systemic, giving you a lot of fun tools that affect the world in interesting ways, and then giving you the room to use those tools however you want for immersive-sim-like gameplay. In service of this it massively sidelines its main quest to create a total free-roam sandbox.
 

Grayson

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Aug 21, 2019
1,768
The point on a design level is to get you to try more than one kind of weapon. Whether or not it worked is another thing, but that is a point LOL

On a gameplay level it's not the best incentivized, but there at least is a small attempt to encourage it in that a weapon that breaks deals significantly more damage and knockback than normal.
Its the first Zelda I put down so I'm thinking it was a bad plan.
 

Coztoomba

Member
Oct 28, 2017
394
Everything has been pretty much said but I'll add that I highly recommend not playing hand held for the full experience. I know people who stared off that way and couldn't get into it. You lose the immersiveness and good audio helps the mood a lot as well. I played a lot on hand held after I'd finished just tracking down all the shrines which was great, but I'd definitely start on TV if you can.
 

Grayson

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Aug 21, 2019
1,768
Come on, it's way better to just pick up weapons on the fly than to have to flog back to some hub to get them smithed. It is a welcome antithesis to the compulsive hoard of an Elder Scrolls. Don't get attached to any weapon, just mash through them as and when.
See but you're not getting a simple idea here. Some of us hated it. No amount of explaining is going to change that.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
The person who answered me, and the OP of this thread, are two very different persons. Thanks for your input though.

So you're convinced the OP's experience will perfectly mirror yours, and not that of the person who replied to you, because...? Why are you so rudely dismissing their own experience as irrelevant, right after claiming to know what the OP's experience is going to be?
 
Jan 31, 2019
289
It's a true gem. Games like this don't come around often. I understand it's not for everyone. Some people like artificial Christmas trees; those are the same people who don't like BOTW.
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
I found BOTW very frustrating to manage inventory in. A large part of it was weapons, but it also came down to navigating through ingredients and monster parts etc. I don't necessarily think AC:O is any better at inventory management either.

Regardless, the point of my post was not to discuss shortcomings - but rather that the game has some issues, and is not perfect. But even after acknowledging them (and borderline nitpicking), BOTW is an outstanding game that every Switch owner should try.

Ah yeah, the ingredient menus got sucky once you started to gather a bunch of ingredients. I do think weapons could probably be improved a but more, I just find it no worse than a system where you're constantly managing your gear looking for the best items, which is what we see in an awful lot of open world adventure or rpg games.
 

Freezasaurus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,964
I have to admit that I didn't like BotW. I think it's a great foundation to build a sequel off of, but there just wasn't enough there to keep me interested. I played through the game and finished at around 65 hours still hoping to find something that would make it worth my time.
 
Jan 31, 2019
289
I have to admit that I didn't like BotW. I think it's a great foundation to build a sequel off of, but there just wasn't enough there to keep me interested. I played through the game and finished at around 65 hours still hoping to find something that would make it worth my time.
Totally fair. Artificial Christmas trees have their pros and cons too.
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
So you're convinced the OP's experience will perfectly mirror yours, and not that of the person who replied to you, because...? Why are you so rudely dismissing their own experience as irrelevant, right after claiming to know what the OP's experience is going to be?


I have done no such thing and you are putting words in my mouth as well as finding a hidden skewed motive to my post that were never there to begin with. I never dismissed their experience, I just acknowledged their positive experience while further confirming my own mixed one. I don't see how those two things negate each other, nor how you misread this entire exchange to the point of projecting so much onto it and onto myself.

OP's experience could very much go either ways, neither you nor I can know which way it'll go until they try, and in the meantime, it's a good thing they have as much knowledge about what to expect from it coming from the various opinions of different people having experienced this game in different yet legitimate ways.
 
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Maliq

Member
Oct 26, 2017
501
For me, the first 40 hours were this magical experience of a true adventure. The next 20 hours was mostly spent to finish the main story and after that I discovered BOTW is the true Half Life 2 sequel I never got. No action, just messing with the world however the fuck I wanted and it was glorious.
 

Deleted member 2533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,325
I played TW3 for 130hrs and made it through all the content, I played BotW through to the good ending and it felt like a lot less content. Grinding out shrines or looking for Korok seeds in BotW was like grinding out Armour sets in TW3.

If op is the kind of person that hits "the wall" in any kind of 50hrs+ rps, BotW has not cracked that problem.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I have done no such thing and you are putting words in my mouth as well as finding a hidden skewed motive to my post that were never there to begin with. I never dismissed their experience, I just acknowledged their positive experience while further confirming my own mixed one. I don't see how those two things negate each other, nor how you misread this entire exchange to the point of projecting so much onto it and onto myself.

OP's experience could very much go either ways, neither you nor I can know which way it'll go until they try, and in the meantime, it's a good thing they have as much knowledge about what to expect from it coming from the various opinions of different people having experienced this game in different yet legitimate ways.

So "good for you" was not meant dismissively?
 

thecaseace

Member
May 1, 2018
3,218
I think there's limited value to get from the thread after this point OP. You'll only get the continuous debate about weapon durability from here on in.

My advice is to just take the majority opinion and play it. If the game's great like most people say it is you win. If the weapon durability turns out to be one of the most revolting mechanics in all of gaming like some think it is then you lose, but hey at least the purchase is discounted.
 

CrabDust

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,257
OK, sell you on BotW.

It's a game that's all about the journey and exploring the little things around you and the weird interactions between systems. It's a great open world game with tons of sublime little discoveries, but few truly epic moments or payoffs. That's ok, it's not an epic quest, even though it pretends to be at times. The scale of the world is epic, and traversal is mostly fun.

I didn't like it until my second playthrough with my kid. You didn't ask for the downsides, so I'm not gonna get into them, but there are plenty and they are pervasive. Ultimately though, it's the most interesting open world game I've played.
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
So "good for you" was not meant dismissively?


"Good for you" was meant as a short acknowledgment of someone's opinion about this game, in order to then reaffirm my own just after. In case you failed to notice, they started their own post with "Nah." which actually was the entirety of their answer towards my own experience and feelings. If dismissal happened anywhere in this exchange, that would definitely be the moment when it did. Their "Nah." single-handedly dismissed my entire post in one word, but I don't see you being upset much about that now, are you?

I have better things to talk about than semantics, so that'll be my last post about this now. I gather my opinion may not be universally liked, but it is my experience and truth, and I won't change my feelings and opinions to please anyone.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
"Good for you" was meant as a short acknowledgment of someone's opinion about this game, in order to then reaffirm my own just after. In case you failed to notice, they started their own post with "Nah." which actually was the entirety of their answer towards my own experience and feelings. If dismissal happened anywhere in this exchange, that would definitely be the moment when it did. Their "Nah." single-handedly dismissed my entire post in one word, but I don't see you being upset much about that now, are you?

I have better things to talk about than semantics, so that'll be my last post about this now. I gather my opinion may not be universally liked, but it is my experience and truth, and I won't change my feelings and opinions to please anyone.

Their "nah" was in response to your claim that the OP would feel the same as you feel. They (as I understand it) did not dismiss your experience; they dismissed your statement that the OP could only have the experience you described.

The absurdity of it is exactly what I called attention to with my own first post about it:
"You won't like the beginning of the game."
"Well, I did."
"Good for you, that wasn't my experience."
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
No matter why it's there it's terrible and unfun. I'm glad you were able to ignore it but it made me stop playing the game keeping me from the first Zelda I had to skip.


And please call me an idiot again.
Since you elaborated on it more here, I'll never get how picking up a weapon is more tedious than going to a town, walking to the smith, talking to the smith, sell shit so you have money to get stuff repaired, and then walk out again.

Also I didn't call you an idiot, I just said the below mentioned behaviour is acting like one.

This got weirdly personal and condescending.
It's just that when people feel the need to hoard good weapons in this game, which a lot of people do because things break, they actively work against the system the game sets up. Not only by hoarding, but because not using good weapons makes the good weapons spawn less in the overworld, which results in people clinging to the ones they have even more.

It's like the people actively working against the game's systems are ruining it for themselves and then call the system bad. I'll just never get that approach.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,649
It's just that when people feel the need to hoard good weapons in this game, which a lot of people do because things break, they actively work against the system the game sets up. Not only by hoarding, but because not using good weapons makes the good weapons spawn less in the overworld, which results in people clinging to the ones they have even more.

It's like the people actively working against the game's systems are ruining it for themselves and then call the system bad. I'll just never get that approach.

While you're right that its the wrong approach, the game doesn't do a great job of telling you not to save the better weapons because the assumption is that you're going to run into a strong enemy at some point where you'll need it. Its just something you learn much farther into the game and I wish someone had told me how that system works in full.
 

Grayson

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Aug 21, 2019
1,768
Since you elaborated on it more here, I'll never get how picking up a weapon is more tedious than going to a town, walking to the smith, talking to the smith, sell shit so you have money to get stuff repaired, and then walk out again.

Also I didn't call you an idiot, I just said the below mentioned behaviour is acting like one.


It's just that when people feel the need to hoard good weapons in this game, which a lot of people do because things break, they actively work against the system the game sets up. Not only by hoarding, but because not using good weapons makes the good weapons spawn less in the overworld, which results in people clinging to the ones they have even more.

It's like the people actively working against the game's systems are ruining it for themselves and then call the system bad. I'll just never get that approach.
That is calling me an idiot by my behavior. Do it again. Please.
It doesn't matter if you get how people hate it. Explaining to them why they're wrong makes you look bad.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
I played TW3 for 130hrs and made it through all the content, I played BotW through to the good ending and it felt like a lot less content. Grinding out shrines or looking for Korok seeds in BotW was like grinding out Armour sets in TW3.

If op is the kind of person that hits "the wall" in any kind of 50hrs+ rps, BotW has not cracked that problem.
But why would you grind out anything? Like, obviously you can do that, but you get by perfectly fine just by exploring. They didn't put 900 Korok seeds in the game so you have to find them all and make the game hell on earth, they did it so you can find enough basically by accident just exploring new areas.

The only time I stopped having fun in BoTW was when I started to try maxing out my armor by dousing for butterflies and other useless shit. The dragons that at the start were super cool and created a sense of wonder became boring material dispensers.

In a game all about exploration, farming in itself is detrimental to my enjoyment, so I just didn't engage with that stuff and still had fun for 90+ hours. Like, obviously they implemented all that stuff, but it doesn't mean you have to enagge with it if engaging with it means you're starting to have less fun.

BotW also cracks that problem by leaving you the option to walk to the final boss anytime you want. So you can avoid that "wall" at any given time. So if OP is one of thsoe people hitting a wall at 50+ hours, they can just make it a 30 hour experience instead.
While you're right that its the wrong approach, the game doesn't do a great job of telling you not to save the better weapons because the assumption is that you're going to run into a strong enemy at some point where you'll need it. Its just something you learn much farther into the game and I wish someone had told me how that system works in full.
They probably could've done a better job there, absolutely agreed. I felt the need to save stuff like my first flamesword, too. But then I found a second one, and when I stole multiple good weapons from the chain of one of those Hinox, I started using everything I had and it started working.
Honestly, the worst things regarding this are the Lynels where you, even if you win the fight, might easily come out of it with less weapons than before. Damage sponges aren't well balanced or integrated into the rest of the combat/weapon system.
 
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Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
That is calling me an idiot by my behavior. Do it again. Please.
It doesn't matter if you get how people hate it. Explaining to them why they're wrong makes you look bad.
Why do you even respond when you refuse to engage with anything I actually wrote and instead try to bait me into insulting you. Which I still didn't do.
It absolutely matters why I get it, because it means I can parse where people who hate it might have approached it wrong, which resulted in them hating it. It's called having a basis for discussion. I'm here to discuss things. If you want to call that "explaining people why they are wrong" and think that makes me look bad, that's on you.
 

Grayson

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Aug 21, 2019
1,768
Why do you even respond when you refuse to engage with anything I actually wrote and instead try to bait me into insulting you. Which I still didn't do.
It absolutely matters why I get it, because it means I can parse where people who hate it might have approached it wrong, which resulted in them hating it. It's called having a basis for discussion. I'm here to discuss things. If you want to call that "explaining people why they are wrong" and think that makes me look bad, that's on you.
Becaus I'm tired of you calling me an idiot or inferring that my way of playing the game makes me an idiot. No one is approaching the game wrong. We bought it and play it the way we play it. You're not some decider of how a game is to be played.
I need an apology for the insult or I'm reporting this.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,835
It's a well made game that's probably worth playing, but it's not as amazing as some people crack it up to be.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Becaus I'm tired of you calling me an idiot or inferring that my way of playing the game makes me an idiot. No one is approaching the game wrong. We bought it and play it the way we play it. You're not some decider of how a game is to be played.
I need an apology for the insult or I'm reporting this.
Yes, there is a wrong approach to this weapon system, one that makes it way more tedious than it has to be. I explained how that approach looks and how it can be avoided, even if it's not that clearly explained ingame.

When you play a usual sidescroller and try to run left instead, it's also a wrong approach. You can play it that way all you want, but me pointing out that's the wrong approach isn't me deciding it's wrong, it simply is, by default.
When a designer goes: "using good weapons = more good weapons in the overworld" and you don't use them but would like better weapons, then not using them is the wrong approach. The designers system is maybe up to opinion, but not your approach towards it.

So basically even though I said I didn't call you that, you insist I did and you're "tired" of it, like I even did it multiple times. I even said "unless you never use your weapons like an idiot would". I didn't even know if you are somone who does that, so why on earth do you feel like that was a personal insult? And even if you were someone who does that, people can behave like an idiot sometimes without actually being one. I count myself in there.
So fine then, sorry for you thinking I called you an idiot. I'm not apologizing for something I didn't do. If a mod should agree with you for some weird reason so be it.

PS: Threatening people like that rarely results in your prefered outcome (maybe the person gets a warning or a ban, but you rarely get that apology or whatever else you want in that instance)
 
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Deleted member 2533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,325
But why would you grind out anything? Like, obviously you can do that, but you get by perfectly fine just by exploring. They didn't put 900 Korok seeds in the game so you have to find them all and make the game hell on earth, they did it so you can find enough basically by accident just exploring new areas.

The only time I stopped having fun in BoTW was when I started to try maxing out my armor by dousing for butterflies and other useless shit. The dragons that at the start were super cool and created a sense of wonder became boring material dispensers.

In a game all about exploration, farming in itself is detrimental to my enjoyment, so I just didn't engage with that stuff and still had fun for 90+ hours. Like, obviously they implemented all that stuff, but it doesn't mean you have to enagge with it if engaging with it means you're starting to have less fun.

BotW also cracks that problem by leaving you the option to walk to the final boss anytime you want. So you can avoid that "wall" at any given time. So if OP is one of thsoe people hitting a wall at 50+ hours, they can just make it a 30 hour experience instead.

I don't mean "grind out" as in the game forces you to do it, I just mean if you want to hunt for anything in BotW specifically, it's kind of a pain. At some point you're gonna come across all the obvious shrines and seeds, and then you're gonna be faced with searching off the beaten path for them. I don't think you need to play it for 50+ hours, but if you want to play it for 50+ hours you're definitely going to be doing late-game content like armour stuff and shrine hunting, which feels grindy. Almost any open-world RPG if you mainline the quest you can knock off dozens and dozens of hours.

I think the stuff in the 70 hour range of TW3 (which is definitely more than the main story, but way shy of armour set hunting) is a lot more interesting than where BotW is at the 70 hour mark. TW3 has really solid side quests and monster contracts plus DLC content in that 70 hour space, BotW felt like it got into the "grind space" by that point.
 

Wumbo64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
327
If you like open-world games, you owe it to yourself to try. It is a generally enjoyable game with a great depth to some of it's systems.

Just know it is overrated to the moon. The game is a technical mess, like most Zeldas. An uneven 30 FPS at sub-1080p resolutions, with an aesthetic that tries to hide the short-comings of the hardware. The lack of structure is it's greatest strength and weakness, encouraging exploration but potentially alienating anyone without longer-term attention spans.

I could go on and on, but it's pedigree makes it one of the few gambles worth taking. Most people enjoy it.
 

Lightjolly

Member
Oct 30, 2019
4,573
I don't agree with BOTW being Wind Waker 2.0 at all. Wind Waker has MUCH better dungeons that are full of fun, memorable characters, and it has some great locations. BOTW has blue LED rooms, more blue LED rooms, and even more blue LED rooms, boring, bland characters (again, writing sure ain't he game's strongpoint).

Wind Waker is probably one of the most narrative filled Zeldas (I'd say it's tied with TP and beaten by Majora's Mask), whereas BOTW is one of the least.

They were still very weak compared to the likes of TP, OOT, MM, being "much better" than bad isn't saying much.

The games pacing was all over the place with shoehorned stealth and triforce gathering

The bosses were completely forgettable and ridiculously easy. I can only give kudos to WW's Ganon who was cool. Though BOTW bosses aren't all that memorable either but at least some of them actually gave a challenge.

And the WW over-world was pretty much a barren landscape mostly used for extra padding especially for the triforce gathering, which is like the biggest detractor from the game, unlike BOTW which had a more sandbox like design and was denser in things to see and do.
 
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Jun 23, 2019
6,446
I would say go into it with an open mind and don't let proselytizers paint your view. That's what I did. I got hyped from everyone else playing and then I played it and thought the game was trash, but different strokes.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
I don't mean "grind out" as in the game forces you to do it, I just mean if you want to hunt for anything in BotW specifically, it's kind of a pain. At some point you're gonna come across all the obvious shrines and seeds, and then you're gonna be faced with searching off the beaten path for them. I don't think you need to play it for 50+ hours, but if you want to play it for 50+ hours you're definitely going to be doing late-game content like armour stuff and shrine hunting, which feels grindy. Almost any open-world RPG if you mainline the quest you can knock off dozens and dozens of hours.

I think the stuff in the 70 hour range of TW3 (which is definitely more than the main story, but way shy of armour set hunting) is a lot more interesting than where BotW is at the 70 hour mark. TW3 has really solid side quests and monster contracts plus DLC content in that 70 hour space, BotW felt like it got into the "grind space" by that point.
Hunting for anything specifically in BotW is not really enjoyable, I agree (unless you see trying to get to a shrine off the beaten path as hunting for something I guess). Thing is, at no point do you have to. I also agree that Witcher's more traditional structure with narrative focus, progression through XP and so on lends for a better game the longer it goes on, provided the writing and general content are there for that amount of time (which it is in the Witcher).

A game as focused on exploration as BoTW absolutely loses some of its charm as soon you've seen most things. Doesn't help that when you find in theory interesting stuff like forgotten temples or mazes, once you get there most of them are rather disappointing. Same with enemy variety and lack of interesting bosses/lack of themes in shrines.
I hope the sequel builds on these things by reusing assets and using the won dev time to create a lot more variety in new assets and encounters.
What Witcher does with sidequests, monster contracts and so on, BoTW2 has to have in new locales, dungeons, more varied overworld puzzles and other actually unique things you can find while exploring.
 
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TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,963
Something I was taught on this forum is that the game can be as long as you want it to be. You can go try to whoop ass pretty early in the game if you like and wrap the story up. I spent so much time just running around and climbing towers lol.
 

Edward

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
5,107
BOTW is factually one of the best games ever made. I doubt anyone would disagree
Agree. Beat it 3 times, 100%'d it, got all the seeds, 100%'d the DLC and am currently on my 4th play through.

There is maybe 4-5 games i have played more than once. It's amazing. Best game i have ever played.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Agree. Beat it 3 times, 100%'d it, got all the seeds, 100%'d the DLC and am currently on my 4th play through.

There is maybe 4-5 games i have played more than once. It's amazing. Best game i have ever played.

twitch-league-of-legends-emote-league-of-legends.jpg
 

Alvaro

Member
Feb 13, 2019
748
I thought the game was boring and hated how weapons break so easily. If you get bored easily I would avoid. Of course tons of people will disagree with me though, which is fine. Just my two cents.

I agree with you, BOTW is boring and couldnt stand the weapon breaking / cooking. Personally i enjoyed an Ubisoft sandbox game more than this last Zelda
 

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,131
Australia
Personally I found it a struggle to get into it.
Once I unlocked an ability to take photos my interest greatly increased!... but then the reality of constant breaking weapons was back. I like to hoard shit in RPGs so I'd end up trying to avoid all encounters and died a lot because I was just trying to take photos of squirrels and would get jumped by enemies I didn't want to break my nice sword on.
I also didn't enjoy cooking at all, it took too long.

I didn't get very far.
Maybe it gets better when you're in the right mindset for it, I clearly wasn't. Also its artstyle can look very weird when docked on a large TV, overly soft and pixelly.

It's been about 8 months or more since I last played it, I might just need to restart.
 
Nov 22, 2019
29
I thought the game was boring and hated how weapons break so easily. If you get bored easily I would avoid. Of course tons of people will disagree with me though, which is fine. Just my two cents.

Edit: For more context I didn't like The Witcher 3 all that much either.

You exactly wrote down my thoughts! No words to be added. Shitty wooden sticks and cheap swords ;-)
 

Grayson

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Aug 21, 2019
1,768
The point is it allows you to occasionally find an exceptionally powerful weapon without then immediately making all other weapons obsolete
Whatever the design decision it's annoying to me and many others. It's not an uncommon complaint. I don't like it.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,256
Midgar, With Love
After 21 years, Breath of the Wild dethroned Final Fantasy VII as my favorite game of all time. I am Quinton, an extremely famous person on the internet who is the most important person in this topic and it is not even close, so you are instantly compelled to just go play the damn game tbqh.
 

tareqsalah

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
243
one my my favorite things about this game is stumbling upon the ruins of previous zelda games locations. it's a feeling few game franchises can give you like going back to shadow mosses.

it is a magical game.
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
do you want to wander around with barely any reward for it?
do you want 100 puzzlerooms with the same look and music?
do you want to micromanage your weapons all the time?

if the answer is yes to these questions, Breath of the Wild is for you