Era's Woman Problem (Read OP)

[Persephone]

Everyone, this has been a good thread so far with a lot of useful and thoughtful discussion. We've heard from a lot of voices and have been given a lot to think about. We also think it's valuable for members to listen to and engage each other about these issues that are important to our community.

We would like to keep this thread open, but if that's going to happen there needs to be less hostility than there has been in the last few pages. We understand that people are passionate, but nobody is going to gain anything from this discussion if it devolves into personal attacks and name calling. If you think someone is over the line, report them. Thank you.

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There's been some talk lately about how the level of discourse on Era is unacceptable for a forum that claims to be "progressive". Setting aside the fact that this place can barely be considered progressive, I want to talk about the fact that while this is not new by any means, if men are noticing it too then it must be getting worse. Whether it's #MeToo threads, or that locked dumpster fire about a Pro CoD player dumping his girlfriend, or just any thread on women's issues, ever (females, anyone?) it's instantly met with a barrage of male defensiveness and misogyny. I had no idea the "please don't call women females" thread was going to blow up like it did, but apparently the idea of a woman politely requesting that men not refer to them in a demeaning way is unacceptable to some people on here. Let's not even go into what a mess gaming side is when you start talking about sexualised designs and feminism in gaming, or, god forbid, Anita Sarkeesian. The thread the other day asked why so many men lack empathy, and in instantly jumping to shout WOMEN TOO, the defensive dudes on here immaculately proved the OP's point: when it comes to women (and minorities), there is no empathy. We're silenced and shat on, unless we need to be conveniently trotted out to make a point, and then we're shoved back in the basement. Any discussion of the struggles we faced is turned around so that it somehow becomes our fault. And before people jump down my throat, I am not saying all men on here are like this. But enough are that it's a problem. I'm fucking tired of it. It needs to change.

This'll probably get locked off the bat, but oh well. Thanks for reading.

 

[Luchashaq]

This forum is filled with fake progressives who think smoking weed and not actively raping people makes them leftists.

 

[uncelestial]

I saw an awful lot of people catching bans for not discussing things respectfully in those threads. What do you think is happening that the moderators are not on top of?

 

[PSqueak]

I seriously was surprised that the "why some men lack empathy?" thread was not a gigantic chain of people just saying "Toxic Masculinity", i agree there is a bigger problem here than the community would like to admit.

 

[ArrogantBastard]

While I agree, I do think moderation has quickly attempted a course correction. Those threads normally look like a graveyard, no?

What would be your recommended resolution to this concern?

 

[Blue Sky Noise]

how do we address this problem

 

[Laserdisk]

I have seen more well thought out bans here than than any other forum.

 

[rhydon321]

how do we address this problem

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Beat me to it. I second this query.

 

[JeTmAn]

If this place isn't progressive, do progressive places even exist?

 

[Nilou]

It's unfortunate too as ii generally limits what threads I read/participate in as I can only handle so much before I get far too discouraged to post especially in threads where it's obvious (like the females thread) where the majority either aren't getting it or being willingly obtuse to say the least. Generally severely limits my time spend on the gaming side more so then off topic. I try and add my voice when I can but unfortunately we are by far the minority on this site and it only gets you so far.

 

[Transistor]

You definitely make some very good points, OP. I do see the moderators doing a lot to curb misogyny, but with the amount of traffic this site gets, it can be hard to catch all of it. I feel really bad that this place feels unfriendly towards women, especially because of the main reason behind the mass exodus from the old place. I truly hope I have never said anything here that could come across in such a negative manner.

 

[Don Draper's Hat]

But my wife says everything on ERA is fine?

 

[Hoo-doo]

You have my sword, OP. A vast amount of insecure manchildren have been bubbling to the surface as of late.

Fortunately the mods are quick to close garbage threads like that but damn if I didn't wish Bish would come over and lend his lawnmower once in a while. Some people genuinely don't have the brain cells to rub together to realize how their behavior is a goddamn problem.

 

[Strelok]

If this place isn't progressive, do progressive places even exist?

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[Kisaya]

This has been going on since the last forum and it's honestly not going to be any different unless there is a change in the larger outside community.

The moderation here is pretty central on issues and Era has a "both sides" discourse, which is whatever, but ends up with a not so "progressive" user base.

 

[SigmasonicX]

People talk about the moderation being too strong here, but my view is that it isn't nearly strong enough. Being transphobic or misogynist just gets you a week ban, and you often have to have a history of acting like that just to get that.

The goal of moderation shouldn't just be to enforce the rules, but also create a good environment where people can freely discuss progressive topics without people coming in to deny that it's worth considering or trying to derail it.

The key to making this place more progressive is, like it or not, kicking out the people who don't fit that goal.

 

[sanstesy]

How the usage of the word "bitch" is easily excused and accepted on this place should have told you this much from the beginning.

And in general it always holds true that people only care about social issues that affect them or someone very close to them. Everything else is free season, of course.

 

[Kwigo]

If this place isn't progressive, do progressive places even exist?

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This. While everything isn't perfect for sure, Era has to be one of the most open, accepting and progressive placed of the internet.

Of course it doesn't mean we shouldn't actively try to become better, but that OP is a bit extreme imo.

 

[Deleted member 19003]

I saw exactly what you meant in the empathy thread.

 

[36 Chambers]

If this place isn't progressive, do progressive places even exist?

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This this this.

Go anywhere else on the internet. Anywhere. You'll quickly realise.

 

[Deleted member 8644]

You're completely right. At the same time any other discussion place on the internet I've been to has been worse so...

 

[Deleted member 39587]

most open, accepting

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lmao. needthosereceipts.txt

 

[Shake Appeal]

Era has to be one of the most open, accepting and progressive placed of the internet.

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Hm, no, not at all.

When you factor in that it's a pretty huge forum centered around gaming, it starts to look a little more impressive.

 

[Laiza]

how do we address this problem

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Harsher moderation. Faster perma-bans. None of this "week for a blatantly misogynistic post" BS that's currently going on.

If this place isn't progressive, do progressive places even exist?

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I can tell you that circles that aren't dominated by the Internet majority are going to be a lot better than Era is on a lot of issues.

This forum remains remarkably (white) male-dominated and it really shows in any thread that has to do with minority issues.

This this this.

Go anywhere else on the internet. Anywhere. You'll quickly realise.

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I'm in subreddits that are more harshly moderated than ResetEra. Believe it or not, this place is not nearly as progressive as you make it sound.

 

[Secret Fawful]

People don't get that you can't have "tolerance" of assholes without compromising people's social rights and safety. This forum has never been fully safe.

 

[Buzzman]

The idea that this place is "progressive" is very US-centric. It's slightly to the left of the Democratic Party.
If you're in Europe where there are actual leftist groups and parties you could call this place centrist.

 

[PSqueak]

how do we address this problem

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There is no sure fire solutions to all of this, even if ERA is supposed to be more progressive than other sites, it's still a reflection of society as large, and society is not exactly a progressive paradise right now, much less on a majorly american forum.

The first step is that people need to remember that this largely male problem does not equal "all men", i mean, fuck, OP had to bold it to avoid a torrent of "but not all men!", yes we get it, not all men, just because misogyny is rampant doesn't mean your instant knee jerk reaction is "but im not like that" if you acknowledge there is a problem and you claim not to be part of it, then you need to be part of the solution and start reflecting on why there is a problem, why there is that perseption and how to fix it.

Furthemore, you shouldn't shut youself down by thinking "not me", because no matter how much we think we have progressed, no person is perfect, you might feel happy with yourself because you're not racist or a raging MRA misogynist, doesn't mean you couldn't improve yourself, there is no real line of "good man" and "misogynist" you can always improve yourself, acknowledge that your own ignorance could make you blind to your own faults at hand. You can always learn new things, part of bettering yourself is realizing you're not yet the best you could be.

If someone tells you something you did is not okay, your reaction should not be "but im not the worst i can be! so im good and you're being hysterical!", you're supposed to learn from others.

Basically, the cure to this situation is to open your mind to the fact that you might actually be wrong and that doesn't mean you're the worst.

 

[Young Liar]

If this place isn't progressive, do progressive places even exist?

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discourse.zone
hottake.club
cyberpunk.university
averagebomb.com
creamyroll.com
culturalmarxism.club
woke.games
new.donk.city
millenialsarekilling.me
skeleton.world
wegot.hoisted.online

 

[Deleted member 39587]

I'd say even r/gamingcirclejerk is more progressive than era.

 

[I Don't Like]

Everyone needs to take it upon themselves to call out posts like the ones you're talking about and keep on it. I think some people read things and go, "Wtf?" but are afraid of confrontation or rely on someone else to say something. Don't be, just make sure you follow the easy rule (that I've broken like 4 times for bans) and don't personally insult others.

Some things are black and white and people need to remember that; fuck this "both sides" shit.

 

[nemoral]

If this place isn't progressive, do progressive places even exist?

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Sure. There are forums full of tankies and forums full of anarchists and forums with much more orthodox leftists of all sorts. There are probably few video game forums more progressive than RE, but the idea that RE is super far left in general is something you get when you have a very truncated view of politics. Check any thread about poor people to see how un-progressive a lot of the forum is. The threads about taxation, in particular often make it clear that a lot of the forum is nowhere near as progressive as it is characterized.

 

[Cenauru]

Stricter moderating is literally all that can be done. As individuals, we can't really do much.

Edit: Disregard this message, I was wrong

https://www.resetera.com/posts/10751692/

 

[Deleted member 2809]

Well that's why there are mods, it can only get better hopefully, but sure it takes time

 

[ArrogantBastard]

lmao. needthosereceipts.txt

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You have a link to an active community the size/scope of ERA that is more open/accepting?

Could ERA be better, yes. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 4452]

A simple request to not use the word females was met with hostility and gaslighting ("how come women can say the F word?!"). A simply word that costs absolutely nothing to remove from your vocabulary and carry on normally with your day. It says it all, really.

 

[Waddle Dee]

Yeah, it's a definite problem. I'd say that ResetEra provides an improvement when compared to the previous forum but we still have lots of room to improve. The one big thing ResetEra has over other forums is that openly racist and sexist statements aren't allowed, though there are posters who will sadly still post things like this before getting warned/banned.

I saw an awful lot of people catching bans for not discussing things respectfully in those threads. What do you think is happening that the moderators are not on top of?

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I personally think the Mods are a bit too forgiving of some rule breaking. Normally, the system makes sense and people should be given warnings/24hr bans for minor offenses, but there's a lot of blatantly sexist/racist posters that are just given temporary bans when they really just need a permanent ban in those cases.

 

[Wrapped in Black]

I've noticed this too. Remember that thread about that high school girl who was sent to the principal's office because she was being teased by other kids for not wearing a bra? A bunch of dudes shat on me for arguing that her attire was completely fine (she didn't even violate the dress code), and that the onus should be on men to behave themselves around women in any setting, regardless of how they're dressed.

And then there was the time when I asked if anyone else was losing their faith in men, and then I got called sexist. Lmao

 

[-COOLIO-]

People talk about the moderation being too strong here, but my view is that it isn't nearly strong enough. Being transphobic or misogynist just gets you a week ban, and you often have to have a history of acting like that just to get that.

The goal of moderation shouldn't just be to enforce the rules, but also create a good environment where people can freely discuss progressive topics without people coming in to deny that it's worth considering or trying to derail it.

The key to making this place more progressive is, like it or not, kicking out the people who don't fit that goal.

Click to shrink...

what would be an example of a good progressive debate you'd like to see on this forum? what would be the affirmative argument, and what would be the negative argument?

 

[Psykodoughboy]

Well we do have a lot neogafers invading and trolling, but the majority of Era memebers are college educated whites, so it doesn't surprise me.

 

[Blue Sky Noise]

This. While everything isn't perfect for sure, Era has to be one of the most open, accepting and progressive placed of the internet.

Of course it doesn't mean we shouldn't actively try to become better, but that OP is a bit extreme imo.

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just wanna say that, I know where you and the other guys posting this are coming from but, it's a bit like when white people claim racism is over or whatever, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Maybe this place seems open and progressive to us as guys, the OP is the perspective of a woman and I've seen that concern voiced enough to know that this place's 'progressiveness' is up for debate

 

[Beartruck]

I mean, not to diminish your concerns (which are valid), but this site literally exists because of the #MeToo movement. It's not perfect, but I feel like the users and moderation team generally do pretty good.

 

[Seeya]

Wait, the females thread got locked? I didn't really jump in, but as a guy I've always said that it was a slightly weird and othering term to use. Weird if there was pushback, but it sounds like there was a good amount of moderation happening. Still I think
People here and elsewhere should always show a bit of deference in engaging on issues like that before pushing back, even if they disagree.

Harsher moderation. Faster perma-bans. None of this "week for a blatantly misogynistic post" BS that's currently going on.

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To be fair to the mods they do look at the history of the users and will escalate to permas quite quickly.

 

[GrooveCommand]

There's been some talk lately about how the level of discourse on Era is unacceptable for a forum that claims to be "progressive". Setting aside the fact that this place can barely be considered progressive, I want to talk about the fact that while this is not new by any means, if men are noticing it too then it must be getting worse. Whether it's #MeToo threads, or that locked dumpster fire about a Pro CoD player dumping his girlfriend, or just any thread on women's issues, ever (females, anyone?) it's instantly met with a barrage of male defensiveness and misogyny. I had no idea the "please don't call women females" thread was going to blow up like it did, but apparently the idea of a woman politely requesting that men not refer to them in a demeaning way is unacceptable to some people on here. Let's not even go into what a mess gaming side is when you start talking about sexualised designs and feminism in gaming, or, god forbid, Anita Sarkeesian. The thread the other day asked why so many men lack empathy, and in instantly jumping to shout WOMEN TOO, the defensive dudes on here immaculately proved the OP's point: when it comes to women (and minorities), there is no empathy. We're silenced and shat on, unless we need to be conveniently trotted out to make a point, and then we're shoved back in the basement. Any discussion of the struggles we faced is turned around so that it somehow becomes our fault. And before people jump down my throat, I am not saying all men on here are like this. But enough are that it's a problem. I'm fucking tired of it. It needs to change.

This'll probably get locked off the bat, but oh well. Thanks for reading.

Click to shrink...

I agree with you. Toxic masculinity is a serious and gross problem and it needs to be addressed. I'm here to help, for what that's worth.

 

[BIGLukas]

Everyone needs to take it upon themselves to call out posts like the ones you're talking about and keep on it. I think some people read things and go, "Wtf?" but are afraid of confrontation or rely on someone else to say something. Don't be, just make sure you follow the easy rule (that I've broken like 4 times for bans) and don't personally insult others.

Some things are black and white and people need to remember that; fuck this "both sides" shit.

Click to shrink...

This is something I know I personally need to work on. I see shit that angers me so much sometimes, and I even write out responses but I tend to not post them.

 

[ArrogantBastard]

discourse.zone
hottake.club
cyberpunk.university
averagebomb.com
creamyroll.com
culturalmarxism.club
woke.games
new.donk.city
millenialsarekilling.me
skeleton.world
wegot.hoisted.online

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These appear to all be one site and it isn't remotely close to ERA.

 

[PSqueak]

I mean, not to diminish your concerns (which are valid), but this site literally exists because of the #MeToo movement. It's not perfect, but I feel like the users and moderation team generally do pretty good.

Click to shrink...

Think of this as a rally cry to keep moving forward and stamp out the idea that just because Resetera exist people don't need to improve more.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Era's moderation is based on the premise that temporary bans are important so people can learn from the discussion and become better. This does little to actually improve the discussion, and I've seen little evidence this actually makes people learn anything. The mods need to be more willing to define values they absolutely will not tolerate and ban people permanently for them.

 

[Raven117]

I thought the mods are doing a pretty good job of clamping down on the folks that really are not there for discussion, but rather to just spout b.s.

 

[Sybil]

Anything that's more than a "surface-level" social justice discussion has the possibility to go to shit around here. As an Asian woman, seeing "but my wife said it was OK" posts on discussions pertaining to Asian diaspora and women (instead of listening to posters who...are these identities) kills me.

Of course there's sites less progressive than Era, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't take the opportunity to improve.

 

[Namyu]

There's been some talk lately about how the level of discourse on Era is unacceptable for a forum that claims to be "progressive". Setting aside the fact that this place can barely be considered progressive

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Lmao

If this place is "barely progressive" then yeah, progressive spots on the internet hardly exist