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samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Not being woke really aint the worst shit ever.
It becomes an issue when you (general, not specific "you") attempt to lecture people on a topic you're not well versed in, which happens a lot here and elsewhere (this is what mansplain refer to), and why the OP made this thread in the first place, challenging whether this forum can be truly be described as "progressive" if people are allowed to pass off their uninformed opinions as though they had the same weight and heft as informed ones.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
I literally cannot express any of my opinions of this forum for fear of me being banned ..... About anything.... In fact I'm afraid this post alone will get me banned, and some of the moderator comments on other people who do get banned seem unfair and unjust to me.

Don't like Star wars, be called a misogynist loser .... Perfectly ok
Post that the NRA needs a taste of its own medicine ... ban for a week (inciting violence)

You can claim that it's because there isn't enough moderation and we aren't "progressive" enough, but this forum is literally the MOST progressive place I have EVER seen, Sure if you want to claim that's because of my lack of interaction with a wider range of people go ahead, but I'm saying that I live in a somewhat rural upstate NY area and don't think I know of a more progressive place. I learn a lot about thing's I don't know about on here, I keep up with the news thanks to this website, and I get advice/hang out in various off topic places, but I literally refuse to touch any post that has to deal with "social issues" because the moderation is so strict.

Hell I'm almost certain this post will get banned for something like a moderator being like "arguing in bad faith" or throw out "strawman" or go "drive by post or "redirecting the topic"

Just because YOU are the extreme left doesn't mean that the rest of the world has caught up to you yet, and not everyone is as "woke" as everyone else. To you this place is somehow looking down upon women, and that there's this huge issue that need's to be dealt with. Meanwhile this forum has legitimately opened my eyes to shit I would normally have not even thought about.

Funny how you seem to be struggling with this while some of us have no problems at all and don't need to develop a fucking persecution complex over it. Maybe if you actually listened to what people who aren't like you were saying you wouldn't have such a hard time being "woke", whatever the fuck that means. I'm glad you apparently ARE listening and learning, but if you are - what's the problem? Be open-minded and genuine and no one will ban you. If you say "I've read this thread and have a hard time understanding some of these posts *quote*, could someone explain them in more detail or quote others posts that provide further explanation?" I find it absurd that you would be risking a ban. On the other hand, if you come into a thread and try to tell people that their experience that you can't possibly relate to is invalid and that they are persecuting you if they dare to criticize your stance, then yes - probably worry about being banned.

Did I really read in this thread that I am not progressive if I would not be willing to marry a transgender person? Why have I seen so many posts trying to redefine what progressivism or liberalism is?

From an academic perspective it seems like a few of you are a bit off and are subscribing to some caricaturized version of these ideals...

How it got to this point I have no idea. It would explain some of the infighting and outright dismissal of others who for all intentd and purposes are really on the same team.

Because progressive issues are constantly evolving? It's kind of right in the name, bud. If you're not ready to discuss the issue of whether trans women have the right to be considered trans women (hint: they do) and how that relates to your own sexuality, then that's your problem. Some of us find that discussion both interesting and important. You don't get to shit on that debate.
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
You know, there's a very easy way to avoid being tarred with the label if you really find it so very offensive...

Sure. Don't be an asshole. And if you call me or him or anyone asshole or "brogressive", you need to come up with good explanation as why you are doing so and we can argue against you.
 

Liljagare

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
616
I don't understand how this is at all related to anything I've said. I'm quite aware there are great differences between dialects of English, nothing I said contradicted that at all. I'm telling you that you shouldn't use the phrase "high English."



If you use formal English to mean the dialects of English spoken in England then you are wrong which is a problem for the same reason that calling RP "high English" would be. Formality is a register, not a regional dialect.

You totally do not understand the question posted in front of you, but thanks for the input.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
You're applauding a dickish label that someone just came up with to describe an undefined group of your fellow posters.
I'm a part of this forum too. It reflects on me as well. It's not some type of ivory tower position.

If "Brogressive" actually offends you, maybe think about why it does.

It's ok to say "be better". Or to put an easily digestible term to a problem we collectively as a forum share.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
I'm suggesting an escalation in consequences.

Thread ban would be the replacement/alternative to a Warning, not the alternative to an actual ban. My suggestion would be bans for traditional racism/sexism/etc, and Thread Ban for the sort of Rhetorical Derails that the OP complains about ("NotAllMen", "My wife says").

If someone says something worthy of a thread ban, they may as well be forum banned altogether. Why wait for them to shit up other threads?
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,325
i'm glad you were able to pick up on the joke.

also, yall might want to agree on what your new term means before claiming "it's accurate".

we've got masculinized progressiveness, the urban dictionary definition of marginilizing groups to focus on other issues, and progressivism as a vehicle to shit on religions and social conservatives.

here i'll make it easy for all of you and give you the real definition of what this term is ultimately going to be for:

brogressives: people who're generally progressive, but don't see eye to eye with me on everything.

Yeah those all work in tandem well accept yours... funny that.
 

Cocaloch

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
4,562
Where the Fenians Sleep
You totally do not understand the question posted in front of you, but thanks for the inputm

You're being rude for someone asking for help with a language.

I think I do understand the question, because I can't see why else you would be bringing up American English vs British English.

Meanwhile regardless of the question, I'm telling you that you shouldn't be calling anything "high English." That a problem for a number of reasons, mostly that it's assuming that the English spoken in English is somehow better than the English spoken elsewhere. I don't think you know that which is why I'm trying to help you here.

Formal English exists, but it has nothing to do with America or Britain in particular.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
'
The only way I can see your way working for the site in general is if people who end up on lots of ignore lists get automatically banned. I can also see that going horribly wrong though.
Yeah that wouldn't fly at all, I have people on my ignore list simply for typing in CAPS. Those people don't need to be banned, I just don't want to see their posts anymore. I have people on my ignore list that I see in every thread instigating issues with other members. Same song and dance, I ignore them, unlike the other place, you don't have giant indicators saying

"hey you know that guy you're ignoring??? Here is their post"

It's like a Thanos snap they don't exist anymore.
 

FUME5

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,421
I don't know how you fix this on a board where 50% seem to think the moderation is too oppressive and is stifling conversation and the other 50% feel it's too lenient and allows for attacks against women and minorities.
 
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Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
I mean several people quite literally argued that the only reason more didn't agree about the OP's request to not call women females is because she didn't write the OP the right way.
I went through the first 700 replies or so. Almost every single post regarding the use of the term female was in agreement with OP.

One guy asked why it was demeaning, he was educated and thanked the community for correcting him. Another said his wife was okay with it and that they laughed about the topic, got defensive and dismissive when others pointed out the problem and got banned. Another is a woman who had this to say:

I just read it and I don't get it. I'm female, if someone calls me female I am not offended. Saying that something draws a female audience is not the same as saying it draws an audience of bitches. Based on the context of the conversation, someone can tell if you are talking about female dogs or female humans. IMO, people get offended way to easily. Its impossible to talk these days without someone getting offended.
Of course a couple of posters pointed out the problems with certain uses of the term. It is possible that she isn't familiar with the linguistic implications of such uses of it. She hasn't replied yet so who knows.

Unless the second half of this thread took a dramatic turn I'm not seeing it. In fact I'll say it was pretty heartwarming seeing how some people said they were educated by that female thread, while the overwhelming majority knew what's good.

I could be wrong though and you could be referring to something which took place in the last few pages with several people telling OP the female thing was not understood due to her writing. Feel free to point them out for me.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
It becomes an issue when you (general, not specific "you") attempt to lecture people on a topic you're not well versed in, which happens a lot here and elsewhere (this is what mansplain refer to), and why the OP made this thread in the first place, challenging whether this forum can be truly be described as "progressive" if people are allowed to pass off their uninformed opinions as though they had the same weight and heft as informed ones.

You can't have a forum this big and this open and expect the discussion the be lead by people who come with a binders worth of knowledge. Dudes will come and state their shallow or barely informed opinion because that's how this forum operates on a fundamental level. If that level of Brogressiveness is offensive I dunno, I arrive to my same conclusion, why are yall here then? This forum can't be a blockade against that in it's current form.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,325
I went through the first 700 replies or so. Almost every single post regarding the use of the term female was in agreement with OP.

One guy asked why it was demeaning, he was educated and thanked the community for correcting him. Another said his wife was okay with it and that they laughed about the topic, got defensive and dismissive when others pointed out the problem and got banned. Another is a woman who had this to say:


Of course a couple of posters pointed out the problems with certain uses of the term. It is possible that she isn't familiar with the linguistic implications of such uses of it. She hasn't replied yet so who knows.

Unless the second half of this thread took a dramatic turn I'm not seeing it. In fact I'll say it was pretty heartwarming seeing how some people said they were educated by that female thread, while the overwhelming majority knew what's good.

I could be wrong though and you could be referring to something which took place in the last few pages with several people telling OP the female thing was not understood due to her writing. Feel free to point them out for me.

I was talking this thread
 

LucidMomentum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,645
Are you calling him out for not liking to be labeled?

Nah I'm calling all of you out for derailing a thread where someone shows that ERA has a women problem by focusing on everything but the fact that ERA has a woman problem.

We have someone in here asking for Sociology lectures on the differences in British / American slang for fuck's sake.
 
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Deleted member 15326

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,219
I don't know how you fix this on a board where 50% seem to think the moderation is to oppressive and is stifling conversation and the otrher 50% feel it's too lenient and allows for attacks against women and minorities.

Honestly a lot of people just want to slap box with mod back up.

There's still plenty of room for conversation between others though
 

Lastbroadcast

Member
Jul 6, 2018
1,938
Sydney, Australia
If anyone feels uncomfortable posting here because of their race or gender identity, that's a big problem. This isn't a forum for progressive male gamers, it's a forum for all progressive gamers.

Many women have posted in this thread saying they don't think the rules are tough enough. We should actually listen to that. I would be perfectly open to increasing the minimum ban time for misogyny and seeing what effect it has on discussion.

Happily I think the precedent has already been set that people get banned on this forum for for misogynistic posts. That's one of the things I like about this place. We shouldn't be afraid to take a stand, and nobody should whinge too loudly if the penalties get increased.

The other thing we can do is not wait for a moderator to ban someone, but call shit like this out when we see it. A lot of men are on a journey to understanding what sexism really is and we all have a job to do in educating others.

Could we also add more women as moderators?
 

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,278
Be your own mod and start placing people on ignore, it does wonders. It does what you want, removing opinions you don't want to read. I'm sure I'm on quite a few ignore lists and that's ok, because they gave us all the tools we need to curate our own experiences here.
'Be your own mod' is fine for ignoring people you find irritating, but it isn't a good policy for more serious issues.

It doesn't even work, because the ignore list is capped at 1000. Mine's been full for months.

Between that and the flood of new misogynist and outright troll accounts, the site beyond a few Hangouts has become unusable.
 

-COOLIO-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
Well one ain't a sir.

You literally responded to my post where I gave the definition. Then you gave more... they all work part and parcel together

But if you'd prefer I'm willing to shift to brocel?
my apologies, good maam.

would you care to try your hand a succint definition that you feel encompasses the definitions given already. or would it be one of those 3 more than the other two? or is the defintion a, b and c?
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
If someone says something worthy of a thread ban, they may as well be forum banned altogether. Why wait for them to shit up other threads?
Rhetorical derails are not actually bannable offenses, as currently defined by the Terms of Service. Thread bans serve the purpose of shifting conversation in the right direction, as well as letting the offender know what they've done wrong.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,877
Is this for real?

I understand not wanting to bring "drama" here from other places, but surely there is some way to report this kind of thing to the mods and get them removed or at least investigated.
FWIW I (and my gf) got harassed on Reddit, Insta etc by a guy who got banned in a Era Kingdom Come thread. All I did was disagree with him I don't think I even specifically called him out.

I mentioned that it was happening in the thread and immediately got a couple of PMs from mods asking who it was and if there was anything they could do to help.

So, in my experience at least, the mods here take online harassment seriously.
 

Clockwork

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
864
Wisconsin
It doesn't even work, because the ignore list is capped at 1000. Mine's been full for months.

If you have the need to ignore 1000 people that may say a little more about you than it does about the people being ignored.

I have yet to ignore anyone despite instances of disagreement or even outright disgust/offense.

In all seriousness, how do you function in the real world where you don't have a convenient ignore button?
 

Liljagare

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
616
You're being rude for someone asking for help with a language.

I think I do understand the question, because I can't see why else you would be bringing up American English vs British English.

Meanwhile regardless of the question, I'm telling you that you shouldn't be calling anything "high English." That a problem for a number of reasons, mostly that it's assuming that the English spoken in English is somehow better than the English spoken elsewhere. I don't think you know that which is why I'm trying to help you here.

Formal English exists, but it has nothing to do with America or Britain in particular.

Yeah, thank you again, for not seeing the statement before. :)
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
So is brogressive the new Bernie bro buzzword people use as a vague insult to try to invalidate other's opinions?

Where the hell have you been? "Bro" has been used in this way for a considerably long time, way before the 2016 election.

Hell, i think my first exposure to this usage of bro was when someone described a guy who couldn't code for shit and did the minimum effort with no optimization and basically shitty code a "Brogrammer".
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
Nah I'm calling all of you out for derailing a thread where someone shows that ERA has a women problem by focusing on everything but the fact that ERA has a woman problem.

We have someone in here asking for Sociology lectures on the differences in British / English slang for fuck's sake.

So your attack on him was on topic?
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
Rhetorical derails are not actually bannable offenses, as currently defined by the Terms of Service. Thread bans serve the purpose of shifting conversation in the right direction, as well as letting the offender know what they've done wrong.
Banning them outright also course corrects the conversation and lets them know what they've done wrong. Why wait for them to shit up other threads?
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
knowing how much folks at resetera love punitive justice i'm not surprised how popular longer bans are.
I'm a strong proponent of rehabilitative justice and yet even I seem to understand that a forum ban is not at all analogous to a prison sentence as the banned folks have literally everywhere else on the Internet to go to.

Why make this sort of false equivalence?
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,325
my apologies, good maam.

would you care to try your hand a succint definition that you feel encompasses the definitions given already. or would it be one of those 3 more than the other two? or is the defintion a, b and c?

All three it's male branded progressiveness that marginalizes other groups (especially women) through single minded focus on just shit that they can be benefit from and is often expressed predominantly by going after easy work like shitting on religion and blatant social conservatives

Which defines this place frequently to a tee
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,129
No, we just disagree. That's sort of the point of expressing opinions you know.

What do you think a forum is for exactly?

I don't think that you can reasonably disagree on something you lack perspective of.

Like, I can't really vouched for how progressive this place is for Asian people, transgender people or women because I don't belong to does groups. They experience different types of discrimination and they manifest themselves in different ways.

So you're actually disagreeing on a perceived progressiveness. It's the role of the people belonging to those groups to tell us what's what.
 
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