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Era's Woman Problem (Read OP)

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Yoshi

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,047
Germany
Spoilers

https://www.resetera.com/posts/9520288/

Saying trans women aren't the opposite sex to men and trans men aren't the opposite sex to women is transphobic.
All the time I have been told that there are two things, sex, which describes the biologocial immutable property (i.e. non-trans men and trans-women are of the same sex, non-trans women and trans men are of the same sex), and gender, which describes the social classifier (i.e. non-trans men and trans men are of the same gender, non-trans women and trans-women are of the same gender). Is this wrong? Because if this is correct, then it does not appear to be transphobic to say trans women are no of the opposite sex of non-trans men, considering it is just stating a fact. Now if sex is supposed to also refer to the social classification, what term is there to distinguish the immutable physiological property that is the basis for procreation in most advanced lifeforms?
 

Deleted member 14002

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,121
Signed in after like a month and a half off to post here.

I've been very frustrated with the way conversations involving women and minorities are treated. While in a lot of cases it had seemed (before my break ofc) that moderation generally does get to bigoted people, it absolutely fails to control the flow of conversation and allows conversation adjacent to whats considered bannable. Short 3 day bans on blatant and repeated shit doesn't teach them to be less bigoted but how to avoid being moderated. So long as its "polite" it'll make it through and color the entire conversation making it unreadable to the people who the topic affects.
The messaging from the mods and staff don't help it either. So many mod messages are like "this conversation is/isn't productive" without taking any bit of a stance. It makes any non-actioned users believe that their post meets the standards of era. So many bans are on technicalities worried more about tone than the actual bigotry in the posts. Bigots shouldn't feel welcome and they shouldn't be able to just slightly adjust their tone and continue after a couple days off(or after the 5th time they've been given a couple days off).

I have been saying this since day 1 though and there have been brief improvements at times but it never seems like anything lasted. Certainly nothing has been tried to the extent I'd prefer.
Maybe its impossible to catch everything on a forum this big but not trying to exhaust the options just does a disservice to women and minority community members.
Great observation, you touched on many of the things that I wanted to bring up.

In regards to idiots not getting Permed there's one on this page that only ate a 1 week ban.

Start cleaning up the goddamn trash mods because:

Here's what actually happens: Women and minorities get turned off, they leave, and you're stuck with an echo chamber of white boys like everywhere else on the internet.
 
Oct 25, 2017
28,714
All the time I have been told that there are two things, sex, which describes the biologocial immutable property (i.e. non-trans men and trans-women are of the same sex, non-trans women and trans men are of the same sex), and gender, which describes the social classifier (i.e. non-trans men and trans men are of the same gender, non-trans women and trans-women are of the same gender). Is this wrong? Because if this is correct, then it does not appear to be transphobic to say trans women are no of the opposite sex of non-trans men, considering it is just stating a fact. Now if sex is supposed to also refer to the social classification, what term is there to distinguish the immutable physiological property that is the basis for procreation in most advanced lifeforms?
If a straight man is dating a trans woman... he's dating someone of the opposite sex in colloquial terms as we'd use it daily and vice versa... that would not be a homosexual relationship. Spare me this rationalizations to try and find clever ways to call trans women men and trans men women and claim it's not transphobic.
 

Yoshi

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,047
Germany
If a straight man is dating a trans woman... he's dating someone of the opposite sex in colloquial terms as we'd use it daily and vice versa... that would not be a homosexual relationship. Spare me this rationalizations to try and find clever ways to call trans women men and trans men women and claim it's not transphobic.
What? This was not a clever way to say anything. I would expect the reason this was treated as transphobia was just not this specific sentence (in particular, I would suspect the "penis in my bed" claim to be the problematic one). Are opposite sex and opposite gender supposed to mean the same thing, but sex and gender still mean the different thing I described above?
 
Oct 25, 2017
28,714
What? This was not a clever way to say anything. I would expect the reason this was treated as transphobia was just not this specific sentence (in particular, I would suspect the "penis in my bed" claim to be the problematic one). Are opposite sex and opposite gender supposed to mean the same thing, but sex and gender still mean the different thing I described above?
Sorry I just explained it any further questions that are essentially asking the same thing I just answered will carry a per word fee for me to waste my time.

Thanks and have a good day.
 

Yoshi

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,047
Germany
User Banned (Permanent): Ignoring mod post, thread derailment. Consistent pedantry on issues surrounding minorities.
Sorry I just explained it any further questions that are essentially asking the same thing I just answered will carry a per word fee for me to waste my time.

Thanks and have a good day.
You said that many people use opposite sex in a colloquial way to refer to opposite gender, rather than sex, but this does not mean that this is the correct terminology. Sticking to formally correct language is not hostile. Refering to sex organs that may be the cause of dysphoria specifically to differentiate can, however, certainly be understood as such. Which is why strongly suspect the isolated "trans women are not the opposite sex of non-trans men" not to be the ban-worthy issue, but what came after that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,297
What? This was not a clever way to say anything. I would expect the reason this was treated as transphobia was just not this specific sentence (in particular, I would suspect the "penis in my bed" claim to be the problematic one). Are opposite sex and opposite gender supposed to mean the same thing, but sex and gender still mean the different thing I described above?
It's not complicated. Sex is literally referring to the genitalia, i.e. the "sex" of a "male" (i.e. a plug) that fits into the "sex" of a "female" (i.e. a socket). Generally speaking, you wouldn't say you're attracted to "males" or "females" because the genitals are not the single overriding facet of all of human sexuality - that is to say, it's far more complicated than that (something made obvious when you look at how many heterosexual men are attracted to pre-op transgender women - and vice-versa with transgender men). The "gender" aspect is everything outside of the genitalia and that is highly variable.

Also, needless to say but it bears emphasis, there is no "biological immutable property" of sex. That's a misconception pushed by decades of patriarchal pseudoscience, pushed by men who tried to fit the facts to suit their narrative rather than the other way around. The mere fact that we are capable of overriding basically all of an individual's gender presentation through hormone therapy and surgery should tell you enough, if not also the fact that intersex people also exist (and are more common than many people think). Hence, why we've switched our terminology from things like "born male" or "born female" towards "assigned male at birth" or "assigned female at birth".

At some point folks are just going to have to let go of their preconceived notions of a hard-set binary and grasp the truth with their own two hands. The wave of the future will not pause for anyone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
28,714
You said that many people use opposite sex in a colloquial way to refer to opposite gender, rather than sex, but this does not mean that this is the correct terminology. Sticking to formally correct language is not hostile. Refering to sex organs that may be the cause of dysphoria specifically to differentiate can, however, certainly be understood as such. Which is why strongly suspect the isolated "trans women are not the opposite sex of non-trans men" not to be the ban-worthy issue, but what came after that.
Hi,

Thank you for reaching out to me. I am currently away from the office but, once I receive your confirmation of your initial payment, I would love to answer your questions when I get back. A proper per word + expenses invoice will follow upon the termination of our interaction. However to begin I do require an initial payment as a good faith assurance that my time is securely compensated.

Thank you and have a good evening.

- excelsiorlef
 
Last edited:
Mar 21, 2018
2,082
I usually don't post in these topics because they feel like hysterical pinball. I really don't want to spend my time and energy to the demands of people unwilling to be convinced.

"So you tell me that you don't like to be objectified and or harrased, well I will need some statistics on that or your opinions don't deserve any validity. Also my wife/girlfriend/sister doesn't agree with you."

I appreciate the tireless efforts of Persephone, Her Hero Is Gone, PhazonBlonde and excelsiorlef to keep the dialogue going in the face of honest questions, pathetic flailing and underdeveloped empathy.
Agreed. These were excellent posters. I get too angry on topics like this to post effectively, unfortunately (and am an Euro, so I come on when its all over anyway)
So yeah, good work, especially Persephone. It must be so tiring. I couldn't remain as calm.

Like the "females" thing. I will never even understand how one can get the idea to talk about people like that. In this industry, tho, it is almost the *norm*. This place is certainly better than that, but it absolutely can be better. By a long, long shot.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,587
You said that many people use opposite sex in a colloquial way to refer to opposite gender, rather than sex, but this does not mean that this is the correct terminology. Sticking to formally correct language is not hostile. Refering to sex organs that may be the cause of dysphoria specifically to differentiate can, however, certainly be understood as such. Which is why strongly suspect the isolated "trans women are not the opposite sex of non-trans
men" not to be the ban-worthy issue, but what came after that.
For consideration:

https://www.resetera.com/posts/9521679/

"Now, on the other hand, this poll makes the assumption you are aware a potential partner is transsexual, because if you are unaware of it, the question whether you'd date the person is certainly stupid. Now, if you are aware that a person is trans and does not have the right sex for you to be able to get children with the person, then this is a valid reason not to want to date the person as to not to start a relationship with someone you know in advance will not be able to get children. In a sense, we are experiencing here a shift from a "me" perspective (person deciding on who to date) to a "we" perspective (persons already in an established relationship). Of course, this is potentially less of an issue with matching sex but incongruent gender, depending on whether the potential partner plans on having any procedures done."

https://www.resetera.com/threads/transgender-101.25656/page-7#post-7130829

"Still, I would refute the direct comparability even in the unlikely case such a correspondence in brain structure could be established, because there is one important point that is distinctive: If one asks to be treated like a cat, what does one actually expect?"

https://www.resetera.com/threads/transgender-101.25656/page-7#post-8029309

"Well, this is the basic point: What does this mean? To see someone as a woman. I would see her as the same person she is now, I would call her a man if she wants that, but it would change nothing about how I see her. Neither sex nor gender are strong differentiators for me between humans."

Edit: Why am I posting so late after bannings. sorry.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,155
Quick question since english isn't my native language - what's wrong with the term female ? Wanted to follow up for it for a while because it seemed to trigger some offensive responses from time to time online. I think I've always used woman even though I don't quite understood what the issue was with the female term.

Thanks in advance.
 

eot

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,403
I don’t think that you can reasonably disagree on something you lack perspective of.

Like, I can’t really vouched for how progressive this place is for Asian people, transgender people or women because I don’t belong to does groups. They experience different types of discrimination and they manifest themselves in different ways.

So you’re actually disagreeing on a perceived progressiveness. It’s the role of the people belonging to those groups to tell us what’s what.
Maybe you should go back to the post I originally replied to, because you didn't get what I said. The discussion was about the fact that people have different perceptions of what 'progressive' means depending on where they live, and what political issues they care about. If I were vegan let's say, then I wouldn't consider Era progressive. It was a discussion about why people can't agree on the word.
 

GraphicViolets

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
365
Quick question since english isn't my native language - what's wrong with the term female ? Wanted to follow up for it for a while because it seemed to trigger some offensive responses from time to time online. I think I've always used woman even though I don't quite understood what the issue was with the female term.

Thanks in advance.
VVVVVVV

its clinical to use it as a noun and sounds dehumanizing
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,152
Madrid, Spain
Quick question since english isn't my native language - what's wrong with the term female ? Wanted to follow up for it for a while because it seemed to trigger some offensive responses from time to time online. I think I've always used woman even though I don't quite understood what the issue was with the female term.

Thanks in advance.
This is the thread that talks about it, the first post (and many others) have a good explanation of why it can be offensive:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/please-stop-referring-to-women-as-females-read-op.55731/
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,155
That's not really helpful.
Why is the usage of male not an issue but female is ?

Edit:

Nevermind it is helpful. I thought the second oart part of your post was quoting another member with a diffrent issue.

I'll read up on the article.

I think I get it now...the term itself isn't the issue but addressing other persons with male or female. Yeah this makes sense, english isn't my native language but even i understand how weird it sound referring to a person as male/female in a conversation.
 

GraphicViolets

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
365
That's not really helpful.
Why is the usage of male not an issue but female is ?
because it doesn't happen as often and doesnt' happen specifically because of gender. women are treated different than men resulting in people(men) saying dumb shit like "men and females". The more you listen to people who talk like that the more you realize how that how they think of women is different than men
Using "male" is weird. but like you said its not an issue.
 
Nov 2, 2017
3,897
I will never, ever understand how people are so vehemently and ignorantly still question the "females" thing.

Is it so hard to just goddamn listen, and accept? This brings me back to all the insane discussions about the R-Word, I thought we had progressed from that.
 

Zoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
710
As with a lot of things, the words you use can put you on one side or another of an issue. If you are a white dude, look on twitter and see what kind of white dudes are using the word "females". They are 99% trash.

Do you want to be trash? Call women females.

Want to be on the "good people" side? Don't call women females. You don't need a painstaking grammatical explanation.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,155
because it doesn't happen as often and doesnt' happen specifically because of gender. women are treated different than men resulting in people(men) saying dumb shit like "men and females". The more you listen to people who talk like that the more you realize how that how they think of women is different than men
Using "male" is weird. but like you said its not an issue.
Yeah I edited my post.
This is pretty much what i was already thinking from common sense but since I wasn't hundred percent sure I needed a confirmation.

Then again I am also not around circles that use that kind of language to shit on women or make them feel like lesser people. So from a naive point of view it felt weird seeing people getting defensive about the term. Applied to real life settings and conversations where it is used to talk down to women it's a whole different issue.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,155
I will never, ever understand how people are so vehemently and ignorantly still question the "females" thing.

Is it so hard to just goddamn listen, and accept? This brings me back to all the insane discussions about the R-Word, I thought we had progressed from that.
You do realize what a forum is for right ? I don't use the term to address people as said before ...I still can be interested in the reasoning why, considering I don't live in a english speaking country and its not my native language. I had a feeling what it was about and wanted to use the thread for a confirmation on it.

No need to be a dick about it.
 
Nov 2, 2017
3,897
You do realize what a forum is for right ? I don't use the term to address people as said before ...I still can be interested in the reasoning why considering I don't live in a english speaking country.

No need to be a dick about it.
Did I quote, or specifically address you? Half of this thread is about people questioning the reasoning behind "females".
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,155
Did I quote, or specifically address you? Half of this thread is about people questioning the reasoning behind "females".
Okay then I apologize since I only read the last couple posts on this page.
Felt like a shot at me since I was the last person to bring it up.
 

samoyed

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,945
Rule of thumb surrounding usage of "female". Ask yourself:

"Would I use the casual guys/men/boys here if I were talking about guys/men/boys?"

If yes, use "ladies/women/girls" and occasionally you can get away with using "guys" as a gender neutral collective noun but it tends to raise eyebrows.

If no, and the context is probably statistical, medicinal, biological, economical, etc. then you can use female without worry.

No one goes around calling people "homo erectus" even if it's technically correct. Technical language should be used in technical context, casual language should be used in casual context, otherwise you're just being weird and making other people feel weird.
 
Nov 2, 2017
3,897
I mean, the sole reason tha we can trace that sort of usage of the term "female" back to Pick up Artists should raise more than a few red flags for anyone.
 

Zoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
710
When I saw this thread was 37 pages, I figured it would be the usual shit, but I'm blown away that this "females" thing is still an issue. Give it up!

I'm convinced most of the people arguing that it should be OK wouldn't even have ever used it if they hadn't been told they couldn't.

Read this and see yourselves (written by and for white people, btw):

https://www.newyorker.com/books/pag...vents-white-americans-from-confronting-racism
 
Oct 25, 2017
988
You do realize what a forum is for right ? I don't use the term to address people as said before ...I still can be interested in the reasoning why, considering I don't live in a english speaking country and its not my native language. I had a feeling what it was about and wanted to use the thread for a confirmation on it.

No need to be a dick about it.
If you are asking in good faith, I don't think that post applies to you.

However, there's quite a number of people who vehemently doubt the legitimacy of the issue. Why, on the page right before this one was somebody who questioned why the word is demeaning, and when explained immediately called it silly and us being too sensitive.
 
Nov 16, 2017
224
Tokyo
Rule of thumb surrounding usage of "female". Ask yourself:

"Would I use the casual guys/men/boys here if I were talking about guys/men/boys?"

If yes, use "ladies/women/girls" and occasionally you can get away with using "guys" as a gender neutral collective noun but it tends to raise eyebrows.

If no, and the context is probably statistical, medicinal, biological, economical, etc. then you can use female without worry.

No one goes around calling people "homo erectus" even if it's technically correct. Technical language should be used in technical context, casual language should be used in casual context, otherwise you're just being weird and making other people feel weird.
Hol up. We found a living homo erectus
:P
 

Redcrayon

Zoinks!
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
5,065
UK
Exactly.I'm not sure what the OP is talking about.
There are literally dozens of people expanding on the same sentiments if you read the thread and the thrust of what the OP is getting at. Better that than to focus on a catch-all term that brings a lot of the areas/issues mentioned under one banner without having to list them out (and potentially exclude some) each time.

Era is ‘progressive’ for a US-based computer games forum, which is kinda damning with faint praise considering the generally right-wing slant of US politics and that people from all over the world post here.
 
Oct 30, 2017
16
Germany
I still feel like Newton's third law applies to social topics or discussions in general, too, which would explain why certain threads went the way they were. What I mean is, the more we push in one direction there will be a push of equal force in the other direction. (This shouldn’t mean that it is not worth having said threads or discussion)

Another problem in my personal opinion, which is not specific to era but rather the internet as a whole, is that due to the lack of body language and intonation in written text people tend to use a more exaggerated and/or subjectively influenced language than they would normally use, which makes certain discussions feel more loaded than they actually are.

Furthermore there are people who try to participate in these discussions who aren’t native english speakers (like myself) and therefore might word something poorly and/or wrongly and miss what and how they actually wanted to say something.

And as a last point I feel that people are way too obsessed to determine who is at fault rather than taking an objective look at a certain problem and thinking about what they/we can do to solve it.

So what can we - as a community - do to improve upon this problems? Like many people have already said show empathy towards people who suffers from a problem. Don’t try to find someone to blame for this problem but rather think about a solution to it. Treat people with respect. Don’t feed the troll and lastly a word of wisdom from my grandfather: “Choose your words wisely because you never know how someone perceives them”.

All of this should be pretty obvious solutions but unfortunately taking a look at this thread and other like-minded threads I feel like people still have a lot to learn…
 

Redcrayon

Zoinks!
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
5,065
UK
I still feel like Newton's third law applies to social topics or discussions in general, too, which would explain why certain threads went the way they were. What I mean is, the more we push in one direction there will be a push of equal force in the other direction. (This shouldn’t mean that it is not worth having said threads or discussion)

Another problem in my personal opinion, which is not specific to era but rather the internet as a whole, is that due to the lack of body language and intonation in written text people tend to use a more exaggerated and/or subjectively influenced language than they would normally use, which makes certain discussions feel more loaded than they actually are.

Furthermore there are people who try to participate in these discussions who aren’t native english speakers (like myself) and therefore might word something poorly and/or wrongly and miss what and how they actually wanted to say something.

And as a last point I feel that people are way too obsessed to determine who is at fault rather than taking an objective look at a certain problem and thinking about what they/we can do to solve it.

So what can we - as a community - do to improve upon this problems? Like many people have already said show empathy towards people who suffers from a problem. Don’t try to find someone to blame for this problem but rather think about a solution to it. Treat people with respect. Don’t feed the troll and lastly a word of wisdom from my grandfather: “Choose your words wisely because you never know how someone perceives them”.

All of this should be pretty obvious solutions but unfortunately taking a look at this thread and other like-minded threads I feel like people still have a lot to learn…
I agree with your post, but sometimes I feel like a very small request in one direction (don’t call x by x term etc) is met by a massive response desperate not to have to make the mildest of concessions.
 
Oct 27, 2017
247
Felt like a shot at me since I was the last person to bring it up.
I get why you might ask due to the language thing, but this is really a sensitive place to bring it up. I would advise against using female or male as a noun to refer to people. It should be only be used as a modifier for another word.

Using them as nouns doesn't sound natural unless you're referring to a different species, so it has that implication. Usually, the people who call women 'females' are using the term in this way to dehumanize women, when they would refer to themselves as 'men'.

As for my post, I am both glad and disappointed that I'm not the only one that feels this way. Generally I start a post, I start getting too mad, realize it's a bad way to spend my break, realize it's not worth it, and cancel out. I know this doesn't help anyone but me, but fuck it. So I appreciate all the more the tough women who speak up every time. They still think this community is worth their efforts and the toll it takes on their blood pressure.

I think Linkura had a good suggestion about hiding the content of banned posts behind spoiler tags. Giving members the option to show it always is great, but having it there all the time is like leaving a pile of shit in front of your house with a big red 'sorry about the shit, this individual won't shit here again' sign. Everyone's still gotta smell it and be less inclined to drop in.
 

GraphicViolets

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
365
I think Linkura had a good suggestion about hiding the content of banned posts behind spoiler tags. Giving members the option to show it always is great, but having it there all the time is like leaving a pile of shit in front of your house with a big red 'sorry about the shit, this individual won't shit here again' sign. Everyone's still gotta smell it and be less inclined to drop in.
agreed. plus hiding the content makes it clear "Hey this isnt something we want visible on this forum" and further encourages people not to discuss it
i dont think its necessarily a solution to any one problem but it increases the ways that moderation can affect the thread and gives more ways for users to control their experience
its just a nice feature
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,155
Scrooge McDuck Her Hero Is Gone

I get that this is a sensitive topic. Thats probably the reason why i didnt even bother asking about it even though i was looking for a clear response for a long time. Then again in my initial post i stated that i dont adress women as female....so this was really just about understanding the issue, not fighting or arguing against it.

Now im myself in the position to tell other people why they shouldnt use the term - being able to explain is usually more helpful than just saying someone is wrong and should drop it.
 

PhazonBlonde

User requested ban
Member
May 18, 2018
3,293
Somewhere deep in space
Oh good, you've evolved your position on humour a little. Jokes about ethnic cleansing! And you're even going so far as to punch down to the victims, getting pretty edgy and out there. Be sure to let me know if you come up with any new material, I'd hate to miss it.
"But the Irish have faced historical discrimination, white on white racism, etc" is a huge derail considering politics in America right now and the purpose of this thread. It's technically correct, but do you really want to be that guy bringing up how America had white indentured servants in the days of early colonialism when the thread is about say, police brutality against the black community? That kinda stuff just bears little relevance. You don't like my posts you can always ignore them my friend.
 
Oct 25, 2017
907
I still feel like Newton's third law applies to social topics or discussions in general, too, which would explain why certain threads went the way they were. What I mean is, the more we push in one direction there will be a push of equal force in the other direction. (This shouldn’t mean that it is not worth having said threads or discussion)

Another problem in my personal opinion, which is not specific to era but rather the internet as a whole, is that due to the lack of body language and intonation in written text people tend to use a more exaggerated and/or subjectively influenced language than they would normally use, which makes certain discussions feel more loaded than they actually are.

Furthermore there are people who try to participate in these discussions who aren’t native english speakers (like myself) and therefore might word something poorly and/or wrongly and miss what and how they actually wanted to say something.

And as a last point I feel that people are way too obsessed to determine who is at fault rather than taking an objective look at a certain problem and thinking about what they/we can do to solve it.

So what can we - as a community - do to improve upon this problems? Like many people have already said show empathy towards people who suffers from a problem. Don’t try to find someone to blame for this problem but rather think about a solution to it. Treat people with respect. Don’t feed the troll and lastly a word of wisdom from my grandfather: “Choose your words wisely because you never know how someone perceives them”.

All of this should be pretty obvious solutions but unfortunately taking a look at this thread and other like-minded threads I feel like people still have a lot to learn…
I appreciate this post, particularly the bolded. A lot of threads get derailed by a combination of people using hyperbolic language (common on the internet) and people assuming everyone else is posting in bad faith (leading to strawmen, dog piles, shitposts, etc).

While I do wish moderators would take a stronger stance sometimes against posters who continually assume the worst about everyone else (and thus derail), it's ultimately up to each of us, individually, to make the effort to have a precise and productive discourse. Together, hopefully, we can keep the community pleasant for all involved.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,091
Bahrain
I was unbanned. I hope that means a change is coming in.

My criticism to the moderation is that calling out bigotry is incredibly difficult, we always have to be nice to bigots, they get to continue to spew their hatred because they dogwhistle very nicely while we get banned for challenging them in a not very nice way. I hope the mods deal with very nice dogwhistles more harshly in the future, otherwise, I don't think I'll be posting much here, the place is already devolving into KiA (check a few threads in the first page if you don't believe me).
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,670
What? This was not a clever way to say anything. I would expect the reason this was treated as transphobia was just not this specific sentence (in particular, I would suspect the "penis in my bed" claim to be the problematic one). Are opposite sex and opposite gender supposed to mean the same thing, but sex and gender still mean the different thing I described above?
Sex is defined as the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics. Gender can either be based on sex of the person or the persons own identification.

Based on your original post it would be correct to define a non-trans man as the opposite sex to a trans woman. However the discussion about post-op is more grey. If the primary sex characteristic is the same as any other in that sex, then the classification becomes more arbitrary.

In my opinion it would be better if sexual relationships were defined by the genders involved not sex.
 
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