Era's Woman Problem (Read OP)

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Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,740
Imagine seeing this title and thinking I know I need to talk down to women for being too American centric for not liking being called a cunt.
I saw this title like when it was first created and was like

1. Damn, mods already had to put a (Read OP) tag to the title
2. I have no faith this wont go like the other similar threads in the past
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,718
There are plenty of posts in there agreeing with you, so it can't be the whole thread as you claimed.

You must love to generalize if the behavior of a few hundred (at most) posters in that thread is enough for you to sideeye tens of thousands.
The tone and the actual thread is enough to actually show that something I took for granted was actually worth a debate here.
So there's no reason to assume the best out of posters here.
And that is the reason that was just a link in the other post because I didn't want to derail the thread this way.
If you can't understand that people actually discussing my identity to myself is enough reason for me to reconsider the values of the forum, I'm sorry to say I can't help you.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
40,898
Okay, I guess. But is there really not a better way to weed out bigots than junking up threads by assuming the worst about every poster? It derails threads constantly.
I didn't assume anything.

I merely pointed out that entering with vague unsupported insinuations (and proclaiming we need laxer moderation and that everyone nerds to just chill) and then, when you get asked for clarification and specificity, refusing on the grounds of I'm talking about what my friends think... isn't good faith and really is one of the worst ways to engender benefit of the doubt
 

Machachan

Member
Mar 21, 2018
2,250
I'm seeing a whole lot of "you ladies are overreacting" and not a whole lot of listening & learning on this page right now.
Thread is about women feeling silenced.

CLEARLY, the reasonable course of action by some is waltz in there, accuse everyone of being americacentric, then whine that one can't even use "cunt" anymore and that women need attitude adjustments.

It's just... like, it's "Proves the point of the thread: The guy".
 

Yerba_Sutra

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,961
Appalachia
Era has lost a few BCC members as well btw, it does seem some people from minority groups have had enough
Speaking of that, if you or anyone else happens to see LionPride elsewhere on the webs, let him know I appreciated his presence here if you don't mind.

I've also noticed how many minority community threads are filled with very active users who I never see post in any other threads.
 
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GraphicViolets

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
382
Okay, I guess. But is there really not a better way to weed out bigots than junking up threads by assuming the worst about every poster? It derails threads constantly.

The threads I learn the most from on ERA are the ones where (almost) everyone* engages in good faith and exchanges perspectives without it devolving into constant strawmen/ assumptions / etc.

*exempting trolls / bigots, obviously. They get banned.



You're right, and I appreciate your direct, drama-free approach. I missed it before.
Yes actually. By banning people who have been proven to dog whistle. Not banning them makes it so posters who are able to recognize dog whistles are paranoid and are more likely to look for it in posts. Its kinda an entire tactic that the alt right purposely does to make people on the left look crazy and overbearing to people on the center. See: the ok sign
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
The tone and the actual thread is enough to actually show that something I took for granted was actually worth a debate here.
So there's no reason to assume the best out of posters here.
What does "the tone and the actual thread" mean? For someone who decries vague statements, you sure seem to like them when they benefit whatever stance you're trying to take.

I don't care how mad that thread made you feel, you shouldn't bring that shit into other unrelated threads and use it as criteria to judge other people about unrelated topics. You've basically written off the entire forum because you didn't like what some people had to say on a topic that hit close to home.

For the record, I thought Trevor Noah's "joke" was horrible garbage and he had no place to deny those Frenchmen of their status and identity as Frenchmen just because they had roots in Africa. That was some hateful shit regardless of his intentions and him doubling down on that was extremely disappointing.
 
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Dr Wily

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
Okay, but what am I assuming exactly? Their comment explicitly tells people to "calm down", those are their own words. They may not have ban intentions, but we also do not need to be telling women to calm down in a thread where they are addressing their concerns. Would you agree?
You took a seemingly non-controversial statement made about the community in general, and decided to interpret that as a specific hostility to "minorities", then proceeded to interrogate that poster as to what his ulterior motives were, because what he actually posted was not a satisfactory statement to you when taken at face value.
If you don't see how that is not conducive to civil discourse I don;t know what to say. It is the height of bad faith to assume the worst intentions of anyone who is not lock step in alignment with every thought you have.
 

Redcrayon

Zoinks!
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
6,478
UK
Ladies I'd prefer you be more empathetic and let me call you a cunt without you bringing in your American baggage about the word.

Because when I say folks should respect different cultures I mean you ladies should respect mine while I proclaim yours as American centric selfishism

Ps dunno if you noticed but cunt is like the only slur (which it is in North America) that is tolerated freely here... precisely because of the UK difference.
Just as an alternative Uk perspective, even then it depends on context and the audience, it’s about as strong an insult as you can get in most of the UK too. Big difference between some communities calling a friend a ‘cunt’ in the pub while watching the footy (and even then, personally, I find it vulgar and it’s not a word I can imagine my friends and I ever using so casually) and deciding it’s ok to use it in the office, to talk to public sector/retail staff or to address strangers (like on here).

There’s a reason there’s a vast range of insults attached to male genitalia, from dick, prick and wanker to bell-end, tosser etc, and none of them are seen as as strong as ‘cunt’, Ofcom ranked it as the harshest swear in UK media for a number of reasons.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.joe.co.uk/amp/life/a-definitive-ranking-of-every-swear-word-from-worst-to-best-122544

People say ‘don’t be a dick’ all the time and it’s pretty mild comparatively as far as a reprimand goes, everyone accepts it’s a pretty light version of ‘you’re being an arsehole right now’. It’s because, in context, guys using ‘you cunt’ is often a mix of the raw sexism of a man calling another man a woman as the perceived height of insult, and the phonetics of the harsh ‘c’ that sounds like you’re spitting it.
 
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Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,601
You took a seemingly non-controversial statement made about the community in general, and decided to interpret that as a specific hostility to "minorities", then proceeded to interrogate that poster as to what his ulterior motives were, because what he actually posted was not a satisfactory statement to you when taken at face value.
If you don't see how that is not conducive to civil discourse I don;t know what to say. It is the height of bad faith to assume the worst intentions of anyone who is not lock step in alignment with every thought you have.
It is the height of bad faith to attempt to paint those posters who are tired of this shit as somehow being irrational and paranoid in spite of what is very clearly an endemic problem across the entire Internet.

Miss me with that shit.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
40,898
You took a seemingly non-controversial statement made about the community in general, and decided to interpret that as a specific hostility to "minorities", then proceeded to interrogate that poster as to what his ulterior motives were, because what he actually posted was not a satisfactory statement to you when taken at face value.
If you don't see how that is not conducive to civil discourse I don;t know what to say. It is the height of bad faith to assume the worst intentions of anyone who is not lock step in alignment with every thought you have.
My friends are afraid to speak, we need laxer moderation here and everyone needs to just chil... is not a non controversial statement
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,975
This is one of the few threads about moderation that isn't insta-locked and told to take it to PM. From the posts he has made he is talking about moderation and the community in general and not telling women to shut up by saying that maybe people are a little trigger happy to assume the worst of intentions here.
You should look at how people are reacting to it rather than what you think the intention is, results-oriented thinking is difficult but it's much more illuminating than intention-oriented thinking.
 

Dr Wily

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
My friends are afraid to speak, we need laxer moderation here and everyone needs to just chil... is not a non controversial statement
Well thats not the post I quoted nor anything I am referring to, so why are you pretending I am?
People are quick to assume the worst of other posters here. I'm now getting dogpiled for saying "yeah, you have a point".... to show I'm wrong about that?
 

Machachan

Member
Mar 21, 2018
2,250
You took a seemingly non-controversial statement made about the community in general,
Can we go back to what was actually being said? Because you may not want to omit this particular line:

The problem is that many people see everything as bigotry.
If this is said in the context of this thread, then never elaborated on...it is really difficult to be charitable. And I was absolutely charitable to him, for the record.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,718
What does "the tone and the actual thread" mean? For someone who decries vague statements, you sure seem to like them when they benefit whatever stance you're trying to take.

I don't care how mad that thread made you feel, you shouldn't bring that shit into other unrelated threads and use it as criteria to judge other people about unrelated topics. You've basically written off the entire forum because you didn't like some people had to say on a topic that hit close to home.

For the record, I thought Trevor Noah's "joke" was horrible garbage and he had no place to deny those Frenchmen of their status as Frenchmen just because they had roots in Africa. That was some hateful shit regardless of his intentions and him doubling down on that was extremely disappointing.
No, I took that thread as an example of how this board see minorities.
It's far from the only one where the behavior there is present.
And again this was an aside to basically show why I'm not assuming the best out of everyone.
Kinda like how the Cavill threads and the female thread were pretty explicit in showing how some posters here view women.
I don't care how you think I feel or I should feel or whatever, at this point this informs how I view posters and I'm waiting for others to prove me wrong.
I fully expect the next cop killing thread to go the very same way all the other did or the next thread about a high profile person showing his ass for all the world to see.
If you're being vague for no reason at all, don't be mad if I'm not expecting the world of you.
And all this to show that to me this forum is not welcoming, now please continue to derail to tell me I have no reason to feel unwelcome.
e: And this relate to the topic as I can imagine what women posting on this forum can feel if I can't even feel welcomed here.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
40,898
Well thats not the post I quoted nor anything I am referring to, so why are you pretending I am?
People are quick to assume the worst of other posters here. I'm now getting dogpiled for saying "yeah, you have a point".... to show I'm wrong about that?
That's the same person though ... you're erasing everything that lead up to that last comment to remove all context

And you're being disagreed with bro...
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
9,212
You took a seemingly non-controversial statement made about the community in general, and decided to interpret that as a specific hostility to "minorities", then proceeded to interrogate that poster as to what his ulterior motives were, because what he actually posted was not a satisfactory statement to you when taken at face value.
If you don't see how that is not conducive to civil discourse I don;t know what to say. It is the height of bad faith to assume the worst intentions of anyone who is not lock step in alignment with every thought you have.
I did not "decide to interpret" it that way. I want to be very clear with this train of thought, and you can point out any logical inconsistency.

This is a topic about women not feeling comfortable on the forum. Their post said that people need to calm down because not everything is an alt-right plot. Do you deny that in this thread designed for women to voice their concerns that a reasonable interpretation of that is that they are addressing the victims of that kind of speech?

I took their statement at face value in that they are telling people to calm down in a thread where women are saying they feel uncomfortable. I did not twist their words in any way, I have not been uncivil, I have not demanded "lockstep alignment".
People are quick to assume the worst of other posters here. I'm now getting dogpiled for saying "yeah, you have a point".... to show I'm wrong about that?
People disagreeing with what you are saying is not being dogpiled. Nobody has insulted you or personally attacked you in any way, we are trying to remain civil so the thread is not locked.
 

PhazonBlonde

User requested ban
Banned
May 18, 2018
3,293
Somewhere deep in space
Pages and hours worth of hand-wringing just because a guy really wants to say 'cunt'? Good fucking lord. Hey, ERA-men. If you ever want to see why a lot of us women just assume you're arguing in bad faith, look no further than the tragedy of Darth MJBarret the Unwise. I hope that answers your question Dr Wily
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,975
Something is not "non-controversial" just because you think it isn't. If it incites controversy, then it's controversial.

Prescriptivism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription
Descriptivism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_description

Long and short of it is, stop telling other people how they should feel and dismissing their worries as the "wrong" way to feel about something. Prescriptivism is why some women feel Era (and gaming as a whole) is still hostile to them.
 

BossLackey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,710
Kansas City, MO
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory derailment surrounding race sensitivity
There are lots of amazing posts here (Her Hero Is Gone, OPs, excelsior's input to name a few); it saddens me to read plenty of other women who no longer feel welcome here.

I get it.

Plenty of other drive-by posting and dishonest whatabouting that I've seen in a myriad of other threads in the weeks following the exodus from the other site. The constant negativity of the etcera forum, the nonstop news threads, then other threads where the only reason that it seems they exist is to criticize public figures or some sort of lowkey concern trolling. I don't know when specifically the 'fun'/honeymoon period ended for me - a couple of months ago? I no longer read ERA since so many threads get derailed and it seems that many posters just make the same arguments, only they have another name. I check Etcera once a week, if that, since I've cut down on my media + news consumption to lighten my mood.

I'm saddened to see that the more things change (goodbye GAF), that they stay the same (hello ERA). Stricter moderation would be nice but I don't know if it's feasible. It seems that the whole internet is just turning into more shit; maybe I just haven't found the good part where everyone else is. Or maybe they've all checked out and are living in the real world? ERA can improve with love, care and more inclusivity and less tolerance for bullshitting. It's on a volunteer-basis though. Day-to-day live can be draining, and then to come onto Etcera and see gaslighting and dishonest posting is even more so.

I really appreciate all the real posting and input from those who genuinely care and many kudos to you Persephone for starting this conversation. Hoping for the best for ERA going forward and look forward to seeing what the moderators come up with.
ResetERA is a sticker someone slapped over the word "NeoGAF". Of course things haven't changed much.

I come here mostly for news. Having any kind of real conversation here is completely out of the question. Dissenting opinions get squashed immediately.
 
Oct 27, 2017
311
This scene has been on my mind ever since the female thread. It is the marriage proposal of mr Collins to Elizabeth from the 1995 adaptation of pride and prejudice.

It just has it all. Seeing a woman as an object instead of a person. Failing to listen and a female remark to top it of at the 4:06 mark. Enjoy.

 

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,056
Metro Detriot
Cunt, pussy, bitch, and dick are gendered insults that really need to start being looked at a bit more imo.

Same with any insult that uses race or gender. I also happen to side eye mongoloid for the same reason.
As a side note- I do listen to podcast from Australia where "cunt" is used frequently in a joking manner. I accept it because I know the pod casters are using it as a joke and they do stand for women's rights. They are not using the word in a derogatory manner- aka they are not referring to all women or men as cunts- they are targeting on person for their specific actions. They equally rip on their own personal white man colonizer privilege.

The difference on a message board like this, very few people know each other well. So they are judged on words. The choice of using derogatory words in a public space reflects on the person character.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,670
ResetERA is a sticker someone slapped over the word "NeoGAF". Of course things haven't changed much.

I come here mostly for news. Having any kind of real conversation here is completely out of the question. Dissenting opinions get squashed immediately.
Yes indeed. Dissenting opinions keep getting squashed by fragile men desperate to assert their dominance in every single fucking thread about women's issues. I 100% agree with you.
 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,020
Rochester, New York
While not a gendered slur, when I found out what "spaz" meant in other countries, as an American, I decided I wasn't going to use that word any longer, because, while it's not a slur in the US, it absolutely is in other countries and I didn't want to seem insensitive to disabled people. I didn't view being an American as an excuse because nobody knows I'm American when reading my posts.

I feel the same way about the word "cunt"
 
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Oct 27, 2017
2,053
Ladies I'd prefer you be more empathetic and let me call you a cunt without you bringing in your American baggage about the word.

Because when I say folks should respect different cultures I mean you ladies should respect mine while I proclaim yours as American centric selfishism

Ps dunno if you noticed but cunt is like the only slur (which it is in North America) that is tolerated freely here... precisely because of the UK difference.
I am a fanboy for your posts
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,170
Chicago
I can only imagine the mountains of shit you must have to put up with on regular basis, but while you have your arms up in a cage like a seasoned pugalist should, it may be obscuring a part of your view. You may not be seeing how the simple framing of how you issue bans may be causing anxiety.
That moment when you use a word to sound smart and then misspell it.
 

D i Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,960
Where X marks the spot.
I knew that as soon as the knock on America came into play the cunt drop was soon to follow. It's like an itch that these dudes can't help but scratch.


Speaking of that, if you or anyone else happens to see LionPride elsewhere on the webs, let him know I appreciated his presence here if you don't mind.

I've also noticed how many minority community threads are filled with very active users who I never see post in any other threads.
1) Will let him know.
2) Good reason for that. It's bloody in these Era streets and most are sick and tired of having to fight for inches and still losing yards.
 

BossLackey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,710
Kansas City, MO
Yes indeed. Dissenting opinions keep getting squashed by fragile men desperate to assert their dominance in every single fucking thread about women's issues. I 100% agree with you.
I honestly haven't seen many of these threads people are talking about, so I don't have an opinion on the way people have been handling them, but I wasn't just talking about that, it's pretty much any thread with any somewhat political topic.
 

PhazonBlonde

User requested ban
Banned
May 18, 2018
3,293
Somewhere deep in space
I knew that as soon as the knock on America came into play the cunt drop was soon to follow. It's like an itch that these dudes can't help but scratch.
It's just like the N-word tbh. White people really want to fucking say it because it's the one thing they can't say.

(I know they're not exactly the same, only insofar as they're both general 'forbidden' words for white men to say).
 

Machachan

Member
Mar 21, 2018
2,250
Dissenting opinions get squashed immediately.
Dark Souls 1 is not perfect, and is in fact the worst game in the soulsborne category.
Zelda: Ocarina of Time is not the best Zelda
Pokemon is boring
Mario feels faster than Sonic

I hold all of these opinions and more. So far, I have been disagreed with, but I did not get squashed, censored, sent to a gulag, nor did I get crucified, stabbed, made an example of. I wasn't even run over by skeletons on wheels.

Perhaps the problem is not holding different opinions, but what these opinions entail. It is easier to disagree on media than on who counts as a full person, for example.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,975
If you think you can't repeat conservative talking points in political threads just say it.

Like rather than get defensive over vague assumptions and insinuations just leave your piece and we can talk about something concrete instead of taking shots at each other behind cover.
 

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,465
I'm glad we're down to vague insinuations of opinions being quashed and tone policing. Pretty great that dudes can make a thread about ladies not feeling welcome about how they can't talk about certain things and it's so hard for them.
 
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