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Era's Woman Problem (Read OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Talking to people who actually have something to say rather than fending off bullshit from fragile men all day long. Did it ever occur to you that not all arguments are equally valid? Maybe I just don't give a shit about a man's hot take on why women's issues don't matter. I literally don't want to hear it and there is literally nothing that man could tell me that would be even slightly thought-provoking beyond "wow, what a complete buffoon". As the poster you quoted has said, marginalized people are literally leaving the conversation on this forum. I care a LOT more about that than about you expressing your opinion. Their opinion on these issues is a lot more interesting. Always. Tough shit for you.
No, the best way to balance things is for men to stop being spineless cowards and to take responsibility for collectively creating this system of oppression rather than telling women that it's on them to fix it and that they need to make damn sure men don't lose anything over it. Fuck that a lot.
Also there is no double standard because the premise isn't the same.
Yep. The moment it starts to inconvenience them they turn their back. I've never been more frustrated with these forums than when the BLM blocking traffic thread happened on the old site.
Call what that? I wouldn't call anything "high English." I'd refer to American dialects as American dialects, English ones as English ones, Scottish ones as Scottish ones, and so on.
Edit: I guess you meant Brogressive. I'd say it's really neither since I've never heard it before this thread. It sounds like more of an American construction I suppose.
It's neither, it's vernacular/slang English.
I think the word you're looking for isn't "high" but "formal" English. As in, a language you learned through a systemic process (learning grammar, learning structure) rather than a natural one (via conversation).
So what could be done to make it better?
Be your own mod and start placing people on ignore, it does wonders. It does what you want, removing opinions you don't want to read. I'm sure I'm on quite a few ignore lists and that's ok, because they gave us all the tools we need to curate our own experiences here.
I dunno, some peeps just can handle a finger pointing anywhere in their direction I suppose. I don't think it's controversial that boys in general are raised with an emphasis on hiding their emotions and not embracing anything that could be considered a weakness. So when the toxic comes up it's just so weird to see "women lack empathy too!!!1!!" Yeah they do, but there are some pretty profound differences that we don't have to hand wave away.
The people I think frustrate many of us are people who use ignorance to excuse bigotry, or people who are told why something is harmful but choose to not listen. What does being woke mean in your context? If someone is racist or sexist or transphobic or any of that kind of thing, our members of those communities shouldn't have to suffer that stuff. It doesn't take a woke person to know the deal, that's basic human decency right?
Who are you talking to?
The site not being progressive enough is simply an opinion that is not being realistic. People who say bigoted things get banned left and right and that's progressive enough. You and others disagree. That's fine.
But the only way to be more effective at this point is to fucking read minds before people post. Which, as I said, is being unrealistic.
This is an intensely naive view of how power imbalances get corrected.
Newsflash: the vast majority of power rearrangements in history involved some form of violence. Maybe all of them did, actually. I certainly don't know of any 'peaceful' resolutions to longstanding societal issues. Even Mahatma Gandhi couldn't solve the Untouchables' plight with his nonviolent protest, and that man is world-famous.
Yeah, no, the language used in USA is very different from the language used in Britain, so, us morons learning the languages really need to know from what part of the world you are coming from. So we do differentiate.
The grammar is different, the terms are different, the slang, is way different. It's like the same language, but painted in different colours. Native speakers totally do not seem to understand that.
No, I think he's talking about slang in American dialects vs slang in British ones.
It's really sad if a lot of monorities are actually leaving this forum. Judging by the discourse in this thread I can see why.
Your issues with brogressive is that it feels bad to be labeled a brogressive.
Relax, it's not there to call you out, a lot of people here are likely no more deeply read than you, except for Cocaloch. Rather, take it as a sign that you have some studying to do if you want to duck the label.
It's okay to not be at the forefront of progressive movement.
It's okay to not know everything there is to know about gender fluidity theory.
As long as you're willing to learn and improve your understanding.
Relax, it's not there to call you out, a lot of people here are likely no more deeply read than you, except for Cocaloch. Rather, take it as a sign that you have some studying to do if you want to duck the label.
It's okay to not be at the forefront of progressive movement.
It's okay to not know everything there is to know about gender fluidity theory.
As long as you're willing to learn and improve your understanding.
I literally cannot express any of my opinions of this forum for fear of me being banned ..... About anything.... In fact I'm afraid this post alone will get me banned, and some of the moderator comments on other people who do get banned seem unfair and unjust to me.
Don't like Star wars, be called a misogynist loser .... Perfectly ok
Post that the NRA needs a taste of its own medicine ... ban for a week (inciting violence)
You can claim that it's because there isn't enough moderation and we aren't "progressive" enough, but this forum is literally the MOST progressive place I have EVER seen, Sure if you want to claim that's because of my lack of interaction with a wider range of people go ahead, but I'm saying that I live in a somewhat rural upstate NY area and don't think I know of a more progressive place. I learn a lot about thing's I don't know about on here, I keep up with the news thanks to this website, and I get advice/hang out in various off topic places, but I literally refuse to touch any post that has to deal with "social issues" because the moderation is so strict.
Hell I'm almost certain this post will get banned for something like a moderator being like "arguing in bad faith" or throw out "strawman" or go "drive by post or "redirecting the topic"
Just because YOU are the extreme left doesn't mean that the rest of the world has caught up to you yet, and not everyone is as "woke" as everyone else. To you this place is somehow looking down upon women, and that there's this huge issue that need's to be dealt with. Meanwhile this forum has legitimately opened my eyes to shit I would normally have not even thought about.
Don't like Star wars, be called a misogynist loser .... Perfectly ok
Post that the NRA needs a taste of its own medicine ... ban for a week (inciting violence)
You can claim that it's because there isn't enough moderation and we aren't "progressive" enough, but this forum is literally the MOST progressive place I have EVER seen, Sure if you want to claim that's because of my lack of interaction with a wider range of people go ahead, but I'm saying that I live in a somewhat rural upstate NY area and don't think I know of a more progressive place. I learn a lot about thing's I don't know about on here, I keep up with the news thanks to this website, and I get advice/hang out in various off topic places, but I literally refuse to touch any post that has to deal with "social issues" because the moderation is so strict.
Hell I'm almost certain this post will get banned for something like a moderator being like "arguing in bad faith" or throw out "strawman" or go "drive by post or "redirecting the topic"
Just because YOU are the extreme left doesn't mean that the rest of the world has caught up to you yet, and not everyone is as "woke" as everyone else. To you this place is somehow looking down upon women, and that there's this huge issue that need's to be dealt with. Meanwhile this forum has legitimately opened my eyes to shit I would normally have not even thought about.
I don't think they are. I'm only referring to the double standard of the empathy thread again when I say that. A man (I believe) started that thread anyway.
The point is that to be OK with that, should also mean you are OK with it going in reverse. If not, that is a double standard imo.
I completely agree with you, OP.
As for how to address the issue, I think a couple things could be done in order to help promote better discourse.
As for how to address the issue, I think a couple things could be done in order to help promote better discourse.
- Overall, I think that bans need to be more strict. I don't think three day bans or one week bans are truly effective at doing much of anything. I think that, at the very least, the bare minimum should be a month. Also, a zero-tolerance policy should be instituted for hate speech and misogyny.
- I think that it would also be helpful for members that have been previously banned to have their previous bans displayed on their profiles accompanied by the reason for said ban. Oftentimes I'll see mods state that the user had a history of prior infractions when receiving a permanent ban, but that's something that really only the moderators would be aware of unless a poster actively knows about what bans the member has received in the past. I think that making this visible to the user would let the someone know if someone is actually worth arguing/engaging with, or let them know if said user has had a history of arguing in bad faith/trolling/drive-by posting in the past.
- I think a thread should be made for any and all moderation concerns. Frequently I'll see moderators tell users that if they have concerns regarding moderation, they should PM a moderator, but to me this is problematic. A., it can be difficult for someone to confide in someone that they don't know, and B., it can be easy to think that someone else has already expressed a similar concern to a moderator already. I think that in making a public thread for moderation concerns, all of the above issues I've expressed and more could potentially be addressed alongside improved moderation. In making it a participatory thread, I think that more people would step forward with concerns and solutions, and that people who had never even realized they'd had concerns or solutions could contribute. I truly think that this in particular would help elevate the level of discourse on ResetERA.
What's funny is this is you actually engaging in the thing you falsely just accused others of doing.
Brogressive speaks to a certain type of masculinized progressiveness that essentially centers it all around what's good for dudes... which is what makes it easy for them to shit up women's issues
Your response here speaks to nothing
That's also a pretty ridiculous spin on what I've said. I mean, thread bans would basically be a minor extension of what's already in place......and I don't think Warning system was really designed with the intent of "keeping shitty men safe". Most of what's in place now is largely there to prevent the kind of ad-hoc banning/moderation that turned NeoGAF into what it was.
It's hard to stand up when you keep getting punched in the face, and when you tell people you're getting punched they get offended at the charge and act like they didn't swing.
I don't understand how this is at all related to anything I've said. I'm quite aware there are great differences between dialects of English, nothing I said contradicted that at all. I'm telling you that you shouldn't use the phrase "high English."
If you use formal English to mean the dialects of English spoken in England then you are wrong which is a problem for the same reason that calling RP "high English" would be. Formality is a register, not a regional dialect.
User banned (2 days): misrepresenting other posters
Did I really read in this thread that I am not progressive if I would not be willing to marry a transgender person? Why have I seen so many posts trying to redefine what progressivism or liberalism is?
From an academic perspective it seems like a few of you are a bit off and are subscribing to some caricaturized version of these ideals...
How it got to this point I have no idea. It would explain some of the infighting and outright dismissal of others who for all intentd and purposes are really on the same team.
From an academic perspective it seems like a few of you are a bit off and are subscribing to some caricaturized version of these ideals...
How it got to this point I have no idea. It would explain some of the infighting and outright dismissal of others who for all intentd and purposes are really on the same team.
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It would be a regression. You're suggesting a reduction in consequences
That's some low effort. Do you mind explaining your reaction?
'Be your own mod' is fine for ignoring people you find irritating, but it isn't a good policy for more serious issues. Don't just ignore people who make the site worse, fuck them into the sea.
The only way I can see your way working for the site in general is if people who end up on lots of ignore lists get automatically banned. I can also see that going horribly wrong though.
I support the OP in this view - I've actually cut back in my posting and reading of OT due to the uptick in misogynist and racist commentary in threads. And I'm hardly some shrinking violet, since I've probably been dealing with guys being dicks on the internet longer than some of you all have been alive. :) But when you got a limited time left on this Earth, it's hard to slog through all the dismissive hot takes from both trolls and misguided kids.
The problem is, after all the nonsense with people getting fired over tweets and other community responses, I don't really feel safe to share any of my true opinions around here as a woman. And that sucks. Fighting for equality and respect these days can be twisted into a thoughtcrime by nefarious people, and I wish I knew how we could reverse this trend together.
Maybe we should leverage the fact that this is a gaming site and gamify the system. Compassion Achievements for reasonable discourse? Requiring people to play through some games about empathy and minorities to be reinstated after a ban?
The problem is, after all the nonsense with people getting fired over tweets and other community responses, I don't really feel safe to share any of my true opinions around here as a woman. And that sucks. Fighting for equality and respect these days can be twisted into a thoughtcrime by nefarious people, and I wish I knew how we could reverse this trend together.
Maybe we should leverage the fact that this is a gaming site and gamify the system. Compassion Achievements for reasonable discourse? Requiring people to play through some games about empathy and minorities to be reinstated after a ban?
Haha yeah i thought about that, as the current town I am in is not at all, but I like to think the area I'm from generally votes Left leaning (Saratoga/Clifton Park area)
Not really. I'm very secure with who I am and what I do and do not know. Era can call me whatever, I'ma be fine.
My issue is simply that it's fine to have some shallow ass knowledge and feelings on shit if you ultimately roll on the right side. I don't need everyone to be 100p on everything and I don't need the labels to classify what is ultimately "get more learnt yo". Not being woke really aint the worst shit ever.
I feel I laid out my position pretty plainly. I don't really get the side tangent you are rolling down.
You've equated women taking a stance against misogyny and harassment as "dragging others down". Sounds pretty absurd to me.
You're applauding a dickish label that someone just came up with to describe an undefined group of your fellow posters.
Easy, adding the preffix "Bro" to a word is modern slang to denote that the person is engaging in a surface level version of the concept and it's not fully invested in it, causing all actions to lack depth or real motivation behind it.
Mexican here by the way, self taught myself english with minimal input from my school when i was like 12. Foreigners are more than perfectly capable of understanding the concept of slang.
You know, there's a very easy way to avoid being tarred with the label if you really find it so very offensive...
Fair enough. This post makes sense. The ultimate issue is sadly the bolded.
i think i inverted the proper phrasing - opposition to certain progressive values inherently involves disrespecting certain categories of people
that is where i think the issue arises, that people actually are forced to adopt certain progressive values just by virtue of the fact that racial and sexual discrimination are disallowed - but then the phrase "certain progressive values" is used in a motte and bailey fallacy to proclaim that this demonstrates that someone must be a socialist to participate in the discourse
the common complaint is a fallacy of compression, in my eyes
I'm suggesting an escalation in consequences.
Thread ban would be the replacement/alternative to a Warning, not the alternative to an actual ban. My suggestion would be bans for traditional racism/sexism/etc, and Thread Ban for the sort of Rhetorical Derails that the OP complains about ("NotAllMen", "My wife says").
i'm glad you were able to pick up on the joke.
also, yall might want to agree on what your new term means before claiming "it's accurate".
we've got masculinized progressiveness, the urban dictionary definition of marginilizing groups to focus on other issues, and progressivism as a vehicle to shit on religions and social conservatives.
here i'll make it easy for all of you and give you the real definition of what this term is ultimately going to be for:
brogressives: people who're generally progressive, but don't see eye to eye with me on everything.
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