Escapist: How Do We Finally Talk About Ethics?

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
10,577
It's a myth that people weren't already talking about ethics in video game journalism. GAF had covered the issue extensively before GG came along. GG was started by vicious, misogynistic scumbags who didn't really care about ethics. No conversation about video game journalism or ethics that includes GG is ever going to get off the ground. There is nothing stopping anyone from talking about ethics and games journalism, and people have continued to do so, outside of the scope of anything involving GG.

Also, Russ Pitts has literally stirred up more harassment of GG victims with this article and his responses to it. Escapist is still garbage, and Pitts fits there.
Yeah, I was there, there was a huge thread about ethics in game journalism that went in deep about various issue inherent to enthusiast media.
Overnight it became unreadable garbage because some asshole wanted to ruin the life of a girl who happened to have made a game.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,637
"How Do We Finally Talk About Ethics?" is such a shitty headline in the first place.

It betrays three pathetic assumptions: one, that ethics isn't talked about all the damn time; two, that GG was a clumsy opening salvo toward the discussion of ethics in journalism, all such discussions are now situated around GG's failures (...and doubtless, too, the journalistic defensiveness and snobbery amplified by those failures), and we must get past that and just do a better job than GG did; and finally, three, that journalistic corruption in games actually is as prevalent as GGers thought, and a subject of great import that has been unfortunately cast aside in favor of things like social justice discourse.

Basically, Russ Pitts needs to shut the fuck up.
 

Deleted member 5028

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah, there's a reason I opted for images when I posted that exchange. He's been deleting shit since he came back to Escapist
He has always been an ignoble piece of shit. The mask slips ever so slightly once he can get on his high horse. The shit he used to share on Facebook back a few years ago was just bitter and unreal. Sadly we are no longer connected (my choice) but gosh was he always problematic.

This should not be a surprise to anyone.
 

Deleted member 6215

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Like if we keeping it 100% about journalism how would you write even an opinion piece about an incident that happened years ago that was fucked up and traumatic for someone, and be so clueless that they might want to have been consulted, and when they mention it you’re the one that feels attacked!
Maybe when Russ is brave enough to start talking about "ethics in journalism", his first article can be about the ethics in publishing something that takes no consideration for the victims involved in the story.
 

Jecht

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,650
What an absolute piece of shit this writer is.

As someone who was targeted over a few reviews I did and posts on gaf I made, fuck this guy.
 
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Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,816
fuckin gross

also the attempt to frame it like there was no discussion of ethics prior to gatorgamp is hilarious considering the kane and lynch/gamespot saga back in '07
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
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Oct 25, 2017
11,196
This is fucked. I always forget about the Escapist until there's yet another instance like this. Russ isn't fooling anyone at this point, he may as well go full Gator rather than this facade.

On a side note, I find it weird that the OP posted this with a "I think this article has some good ideas" attitude because it blatantly has none. The term ethics in game journalism is just a dog whistle for the GG crowd and has been since this started.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,416
Just to actually address something in the article, check out this quote:

In order to hold the industry accountable for bad practices (against workers and players) we have to have established the credibility that we will always strive to do the right thing, acknowledge when we fail, and work with readers to maintain that trust. I used to tell a publisher I once worked for that integrity is an egg. Once it’s broken, it’s gone, and you can’t put it back together. And I still believe this to this day.
Look at the bolded text, and then remember that Russ Pitts took a look at a disgraced openly pro-GG media outlet and publicly made noise about how he was going to try to Humpty Dumpty that reputation.
 

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,922
Just to actually address something in the article, check out this quote:

In order to hold the industry accountable for bad practices (against workers and players) we have to have established the credibility that we will always strive to do the right thing, acknowledge when we fail, and work with readers to maintain that trust. I used to tell a publisher I once worked for that integrity is an egg. Once it’s broken, it’s gone, and you can’t put it back together. And I still believe this to this day.
Look at the bolded text, and then remember that Russ Pitts took a look at a disgraced openly pro-GG media outlet and publicly made noise about how he was going to try to Humpty Dumpty that reputation.
What a find.

I guess this explains why he's making zero effort to reclaim his integrity today.
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
669
This isn’t really right. The “ethics” angle was always a smokescreen created by the harassers from the get-go. It wasn’t those harassers seeing some idiots who could happen to give them cover, but explicitly the harassers creating the “ethics” angle so they could position themselves as crusaders for a righteous cause.

There are actual IRC logs of this discussion occurring before the GG name had been devised, back when it was referred to as Quinnspiracy or Five Guys.
I think there were genuinely people who bought in to the ethics angle, though. But I guess that also doesn't invalidate what you're saying.
 

Jecht

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,650
I think there were genuinely people who bought in to the ethics angle, though. But I guess that also doesn't invalidate what you're saying.
There were. But they were useful idiots and honestly if they even fact checked a single thing beforehand they would have seen this was all bullshit so fuck them too. The main claim that ZQ slept with a reviewer for a good score on her game was so easily disproven that it would be laughable if the consequences weren't so terrifying. (Kotaku never even reviewed the game In the first place)
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
33,095
"How Do We Finally Talk About Ethics?" is such a shitty headline in the first place.

It betrays three pathetic assumptions: one, that ethics isn't talked about all the damn time; two, that GG was a clumsy opening salvo toward the discussion of ethics in journalism, all such discussions are now situated around GG's failures (...and doubtless, too, the journalistic defensiveness and snobbery amplified by those failures), and we must get past that and just do a better job than GG did; and finally, three, that journalistic corruption in games actually is as prevalent as GGers thought, and a subject of great import that has been unfortunately cast aside in favor of things like social justice discourse.

Basically, Russ Pitts needs to shut the fuck up.
God damn
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
10,577
I kind of get why they would want to obfuscate any ethic talk with the shit they're pulling at the Escapist.
 

Narpas Sword0

Member
Oct 28, 2017
945
Amazing.

"Fix your website
You tell me how I do that
Like this
No, find another way to do my job"

A-fucking-mazing
Maybe our hero Bob should go do it

Yeah, there's a reason I opted for images when I posted that exchange. He's been deleting shit since he came back to Escapist
Which makes it all the more insidious that he seemingly can’t delete the offensive articles

But don’t worry bob says he’s well meaning and he just can’t beleive all this! Aw shucks!
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,869
GG was never about ethics in games journalism, it was always a giant reactionary tantrum.

Games journalism had an ongoing ethics discussion well before GG happened, from our end and among journalists themselves. The Gamespot/Gerstmann thing as one example.

More recently, the Miucin thing happened, was covered widely, and had investigative work done around it.

You want to talk about ethics in games journalism? And you aren't using that as a shield to whine about right wing politics? Your first target should be streamers and YouTubers, where all the most alarming shadiness is actually going down worse than it ever did outside of a console company's branded magazines.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,737
Québec, Canada
In the first 30 seconds of that Recon video, Victor Lucas asks Ellie to talk about the harassment claims against Riot Games and the first thing she does is look over and say: "Is there anything I can say that won't get me in trouble?"

Come on.
 

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,922
This incident has made me start wondering if Take This has ever actually accomplished anything of value.

 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,561
In the first 30 seconds of that Recon video, Victor Lucas asks Ellie to talk about the harassment claims against Riot Games and the first thing she does is look over and say: "Is there anything I can say that won't get me in trouble?"

Come on.
It’s a ludicrously uncomfortable video. Vic is barely talking about it on social, i hope he regrets teaming with Russ on this
 

Ging

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
128
I think that like many social issues out there, that people immediately, primally and passively react primarily in a subjective demeanor.

The first thing in their brain is "who am I" "I need to show them" manifested in their actions.

You rarely see that person who says "Don't mind who or what I am, I know you're a ____ and I respect that but what are you trying to achieve so that we can all move one step forward together?"
 

Deleted member 6730

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I don't think Russ Pitts is a Gamergator nor do I think he wrote this in bad faith (especially since he hired back very anti-gamergator Moviebob) but I think that
1. The article is terrible.
2. The attacks on Zoe Quinn are gross.
3. Russ Pitts is a stupid idiot.
4. He should resign after this or at least hire a different EiC.
 

Actinium

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,185
California
All of my contempt.

The escapist relaunched as a specifically 'politically neutral' space which was clearly just a giant flag for welcoming scumbuckets, and now they're pushing out an article that tries to reframe the entire gamergate movement as the righteous arm of the gaming community that got co-opted by a few bad actors but what it's really always been about is ethics and pushing back against abusive microtransactions and unfair labor practices? Just eat down the fattest most rotten chode you deliberately misleading pricks. Gamergate was never anything but horse shit, and trying to maneuver your crapheap website as a faux waypoint at the 11th hour will get you fuck all.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,416
I think there were genuinely people who bought in to the ethics angle, though. But I guess that also doesn't invalidate what you're saying.
At best, anyone who was taken in was just an idiot or didn't do a single bit of research. None of the things GG actually talked about involved actual ethics breaches. Most of them were purely fabricated bullshit, and those that weren't were still mostly fabricated bullshit with a nugget of truth where the true part doesn't remotely involve any sort of ethical breach.

And even if you want to give people the benefit of the doubt of "they were incredibly stupid but genuine", it kinda doesn't matter because they're still culpable. To steal from a thing that's been bouncing around in my head since I watched it, Inneundo Studios' video The Alt-Right Playbook: The Card Says Moops (bit I'm referencing at 16 minutes), even those people who are engaging but not moving towards recruitment into the worst of the harassment brigades serve a useful purpose. They make the movement look larger, they mindlessly repeat bullshit to spread the hate further, and they still engage in dog-piling and online harassment. Their association helps increase the membership and spread of the movement.

Anyone with the least bit of common sense wouldn't have been fooled for longer than it took to do a cursory google search. Anyone who was briefly fooled certainly wasn't proud of being part of GG, much less the next level bullshit of folks like TotalBiscuit spewing the "well, *I* care about journalistic ethics and I'm part of Gamergate" canard, which is usually the card that's being played when someone wants to talk about people being duped. (Unsurprisingly, TB's defenses of Gamergate were a lot like the bullshit Pitts has been spewing.)

EDIT: I re-read this and this seems a little more harsh towards you than was intended. I just hate this idea of people pushing the idea of people who were somehow duped by the incredibly transparently false narrative. It's kinda the preferred narrative of gators and fence-sitters who wanted to let gators off the hook with this "they were part of it but they weren't part of THAT" story once there was outside media coverage of the hateful shit coming from that community.
 
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Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
15,381
I don't think Russ Pitts is a Gamergator nor do I think he wrote this in bad faith (especially since he hired back very anti-gamergator Moviebob) but I think that
1. The article is terrible.
2. The attacks on Zoe Quinn are gross.
3. Russ Pitts is a stupid idiot.
4. He should resign after this or at least hire a different EiC.
I agree. This article comes across more as shameless self-promotion at the expense of his fellows in games journalism than any call to GamerGate.

But he needs to not engage in accusing vaguely defined groups of people of something without providing fucking proof. He needs to actually provide examples of how the practices he criticizes both exist and how they have a negative effect on the industry, or otherwise drop them.

And perhaps most importantly, he needed to actually talk about the role he, the editor in chief of a gaming outlet, can have in improving the issues he believes are a problem.

And this isn't about the article, but spending time deleting his old tweets right after arguing that it's hard to remove personal info from his website is some heinous shit
 
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Narpas Sword0

Member
Oct 28, 2017
945
I don't think Russ Pitts is a Gamergator nor do I think he wrote this in bad faith (especially since he hired back very anti-gamergator Moviebob) but I think that
1. The article is terrible.
2. The attacks on Zoe Quinn are gross.
3. Russ Pitts is a stupid idiot.
4. He should resign after this or at least hire a different EiC.
What has he done to earn this much benefit of the doubt?
 

Deleted member 6730

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What has he done to earn this much benefit of the doubt?
Both his wife and Moviebob, the site's biggest not-Yahtzee contributor, are very vocal in their beliefs against Gamergate and the alt-right. That still doesn't make this article right though. It's not an alt-right prespective but rather from a perspective of someone in a high place of privilege thinks equality is.
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,480
much less the next level bullshit of folks like TotalBiscuit spewing the "well, *I* care about journalistic ethics and I'm part of Gamergate" canard, which is usually the card that's being played when someone wants to talk about people being duped. (Unsurprisingly, TB's defenses of Gamergate were a lot like the bullshit Pitts has been spewing.)
I'm reminded of the time he tried to attack some rivals over the possibility of them not properly disclosing their connections and then immediately backed off the second they hinted at him being even more guilty of it.
 

deepFlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,715
I cannot believe he got even worse? How is this possible?

Just... the gall of attacking Zoe while already on shaky ground, not to mention the fucking “woe is me, I can’t take down PEOPLE’S PERSONAL INFORMATION until I review all these articles and decide upon a policy for this, because apparently JUST DELETE ANYTHING THAT’S DOXING isn’t good enough for my ~EDITORIAL INTEGRITY~” nonsense. Not to mention that uhhhh hey, dude, maybe you should have decided on that stuff when you became the editor in chief?

And how anyone can think of him as actually being against Gamergate is ridiculous to me. When the apolitical rebranding stuff happened, literally all he had to say was “I am against Gamergate”. And he didn’t! He couldn’t bring himself to say it! He kept doing this wishy-washy “you guys know what I mean, c’mon!” bullshit, all the while replying to Gamergaters’ praise of it. He was asked for the bare fucking minimum after his past behavior along with the site’s, and he couldn’t bring himself to meet that ask.

Now, do I think he’s necessarily a Gamergate supporter himself? Maybe not. But do I think he’s at best a bumbling, opportunistic fool who can’t figure out how to get anywhere close to plausible deniability without fucking it up massively? Sure do! Dude constantly stands on the shakiest ground possible, starts stamping his feet when he’s questioned about it, and then is surprised when the ground falls out beneath him.
 

Narpas Sword0

Member
Oct 28, 2017
945
Both his wife and Moviebob, the site's biggest not-Yahtzee contributor, are very vocal in their beliefs against Gamergate and the alt-right. That still doesn't make this article right though. It's not an alt-right prespective but rather from a perspective of someone in a high place of privilege thinks equality is.
And the nastiness he spewed on twitter right after? And then continuing to message her when she told him to stop? His refusal to remove the old GG articles? Why did he revive a GG site under the dog whistle of no politics in the first place? To post this article? And that gross documentary he’s now promoting?

You told me why some of his friends are deserving of benefit of the doubt. And Bob might want to explain why he cant find those articles himself if he’s such a paragon.

This is why people have comments to make about white men. If they do anything short of prowling the streets with a crowbar looking to beat up black people, they get a million excuses for shit behavior. Oh wait, even that’s not enough.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,212
This whole thing is just WOOF

wtf

Victor Lucas WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!


Was this that vid even meant to be aired unedited? It's like 2.5 minutes of preamble before she is finally goaded into giving "her soundbite" about the state of Riot games ... with the handler right there... as she's literally saying--and Victor is agreeing--that it's putting her in a bad situation. And to top it all off, then the text is all "YO THIS IS A REALITY, THIS IS REAL" like it's something to be gawked at, like a segment in a reality show. It's completely messed up from top to bottom.

Super bummed that Victor Lucas would participate in this skeevy-ass bargain basement youtube shit. Damn it man, I respected you.
 

Cynn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,284
GG was never about that.
In any case, traditional journalism for major publications doesn’t really have an issue that needs addressing. Some sites may slip up, but they usually try to rectify it quickly (like Filip Mucin’s plagiarism)

It’s also important to note that the consumer isn’t the only important aspect of this industry. That level of pro-consumerism/cater to me mentality is what leads to these types of feakouts when someone feels like they’re not being exclusively tailored to
Games are a product being sold. How would the customer not be the most important aspect of the industry? No consumers, no games industry.
 

Tahnit

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Oct 25, 2017
8,080
GG was nothing but incel nerds attacking women who exist in the games media/development space. Thats all it is and ever was.
 

Deleted member 8861

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That the person to bear the majority of harassment, threats, doxxing etc. during GG was the woman who is not a game journalist tells you all you need to know.

If there was a modicum of actual consideration on journalistic integrity involved, any controversy would be directed first and foremost at the journalists for breaking integrity.

The general question of "how do we frame a general discussion around gaming journalism ethics in a post-GG world?" the article tries to formulate is, in my opinion, valid- it boils down to how to tackle the vast alt right presence in this medium.

But I think the answer is also clearly to move forward and leave GG-tier dialogue and those who perpetuate it in the dust. Not try to convince and placate alt-right shits, but to empower those who need voices to be heard the most, instead. To not allow GG-ers to drag us down with them.
 

klauskorp

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Oct 27, 2017
469
Minnesota
I don’t know, other than being wishy-washy and adopting a weird “gg is bad, but there are gg people who want noble things” stance, that article didn’t say much. It reminds me of things I’ve written in the past where I think I have something to say, but the more I write, the more I ramble and waste everyone’s time while I try to find a point. It seems like a weird thing to post.
 

Zips

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Oct 25, 2017
3,495
GG was nothing but incel nerds attacking women who exist in the games media/development space. Thats all it is and ever was.
It's still fairly amusing that I still see them parroting the same "it's about ethics" BS that educated people knew to be a load of crap even when it first began. Like, it's literally happened on more than one occasion tonight alone on Twitter. Literally nothing has changed in their depraved existences.
 

Deleted member 18021

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This whole thing is just WOOF

Two minutes of an uncomfortable woman not wanting to answer your question is, uh, an interesting approach to hyping up your new series, I guess.
It's shot like they just walked up to Riot's offices and asked for an impromptu interview to boot. Yikes all around.

I love how they put text on screen to the effect of her wanting to talk about this not ten seconds before she says she doesn't want to.
 

iksenpets

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Oct 26, 2017
5,095
Dallas, TX
Jesus christ the cringe in that video, such a lack of professionalism framing it like that.
The reality TV-style framing of the whole thing is skeevy as fuck, but I literally had to stop the video when she broke from her spiel, said how difficult this was, and he started lecturing at her about how she needed to keep going like he was her tough-love life coach or some shit. Just an utter lack of sensitivity when you’re interviewing someone about sexual harassment.

I don't think Russ Pitts is a Gamergator nor do I think he wrote this in bad faith (especially since he hired back very anti-gamergator Moviebob) but I think that
1. The article is terrible.
2. The attacks on Zoe Quinn are gross.
3. Russ Pitts is a stupid idiot.
4. He should resign after this or at least hire a different EiC.
I mean, I can’t speak for what’s in the dude’s heart, but if he’s not a gator he’s so enmeshed in that worldview that it makes no difference. Either he’s one of them, or they’ve duped him so badly with their duplicitous messaging that he spouts off their dogwhistles without even realizing what he’s doing. He rescued their largest allied outlet from its well-deserved demise and relaunched with a message around avoiding politics that could’ve been taken straight out of the GG handbook, then wrote this completely unprompted piece about ethics that seems to cite a whole bunch of GG myths about the industry with no actual evidence, and then finally he showed his whole ass and revealed that he harbors a bizarre degree of animosity towards Zoe Quinn for... reasons. The pattern is pretty clear.
 

Grug

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,131
Concerns about ethics in games journalism long existed before gamergate fuckboys falsely appropriated the issue as a thinly veiled smokescreen for attacking women.

Fuck that article. Even giving it the ultimate generous benefit of the doubt, fuck that article. There is definitely space to talk about ethics in games journalism but if in doing so you invoke gamergate in any way you can fuck off. It would be like saying “well, uglyness aside, at least we can give the Charlottesville mob credit for putting immigration policy into the public discourse”. No they fucking didnt.
 

T.Slothrop

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Jan 21, 2018
176
A rambling "think piece" in which he repeats the obvious, refuses to take an actual stand on anything, and cultivates a tone of extreme self importance while doing so. Welcome to the Pitts Zone. It's a great place to watch a career self destruct every couple of years. Just look up eagle semen and his name if you'd like go deeper into the zone.
 

SamAlbro

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Oct 25, 2017
5,379
I would have said that the attacks on Zoe Quinn were the most disastrous unforced error I've seen in a while, but this week also gave us Liam Neeson.
 

Icemonk191

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,802
It was pretty obvious from the start that this "New" version of the Escapist was a bunch of bullshit. It was only a matter of time before they couldn't hide who they really were.