So every Steam customer is also a lost Game Pass customer?
EU approves Zenimax acquisition by Microsoft
- Thread starter Xando
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Whatever Microsoft ends up doing will make Sony look “bad”. If Microsoft allows some games on PS5 you will be looking at a $69.99-$99.99 game that is on weaker hardware. While watching Xbox users getting the same game and more for a fraction of the price. This could also lead Microsoft to say hey we would love to offer gamepass to Playstation customers the ball is in Sonys court. It’s lose/lose for Sony and Win/Win for Xbox any way you look at it.
I believe Evil Within also used idTech, but I don't know that we know what Ghostwire is running on. If I'm not mistaken, I even think Dishonored's "Void Engine" was a modified version of idTech, but then Prey was built on CryTek, so I have no idea what Arkane is using these days.
I don’t think that will make or break a persons decsion to stay and work for a company?
Quoted for posterity.
People in general shouldn't care, loyalty wise, about a console vs another. It's like losing your shit when a bread company releases a type of bread that doesn't fit your toaster.
I'd think game developers especially wouldn't give a flying hoot about platform loyalty. They want to make games, and a living, why would they care if their game will be in box A or X ?
"Oh lord, my creative vision has been compromised since it will only release on this platform and not the other platform". EDIT: Which are 9/10 the same.
As if Naughty Dog staff didn't own and play Gears of War or Microsoft studios people didn't play Uncharted. Please. They're appliances.
They already matter, that's why Microsoft games are on Steam.
It's proof that MS is willing to cut their earning by 30% to reach more customers. It is already happening on the PC. It might happen on consoles in the future. But not right away, they will for sure try exclusivity first.
So what? Xbox Live is free on PC. No extra money earned here.
Arkane Lyon used the Void Engine and Arkane Austin used CryTek for Prey.
Based on job listings and etc, Death Loop (Arkane Lyon) will be using the Void Engine and the next Arkane Austin project will use Unreal.
Funny enough the Typhon Hunter DLC for Prey uses Unreal Engine lol.
Hopefully Void has been updated. In Dishonored 2 it was an offshoot of the far-inferior Id Tech 5 engine. Id’s later versions of the engine (IT6 for Doom 2016/Wolfenstein TNC/Youngblood and IT7 for Doom Eternal) were so good. Smoothest PC games I ever played, great console performance as well.
Totally worth quoting since that's totally how a talented software engineer would go about leaving a job.
They'd just quit.. and not be able to find work. They wouldn't.. look for another job.. and potentially get a signing bonus, or a significant raise.. like how the vast majority of talented software engineers leaving jobs go about it.
Devs will choose honor over high pay and exceptional benefits every time.What they teach you in business school is that at the base of Maslowe’s hierarchy of needs is “Console warrior - can’t work for Microsoft”.
Dishonored 2 has the dubious honour of being the only game I've ever played that ran worse after I upgraded my GPU (in this case, 1080 -> 1080 Ti). My frame rate increased, of course, but my frame pacing began jumping all over the place.
Thanks, Avoid Engine. ;) Fortunately, I was almost done with the game, so it didn't bother me as much as it otherwise would have.
Thanks, Avoid Engine. ;) Fortunately, I was almost done with the game, so it didn't bother me as much as it otherwise would have.
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Steam has a larger market share on Windows PCs than Playstation has in the console space in NA and EU. It's almost a Gordian knot of differences. MS isn't putting out a competing machine in the PC space (that they're selling at a loss) - another thing to note. Gamepass entails savings on tons of third party games too, which would in all likelihood be cut from a diluted Gamepass on PS or Switch; they'd be competing with themselves if they put that out.
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What I hope that doesn't happen is we get Game Pass exclusive content. I think most of us still want options. I know Gears 5 has some new DLC that is free on game Pass but I think you can still purchase it. Encouraging gamers to use something is totally different than taking that choice away (waits for... but they are taking games away from other consoles).
Doesn't seem like a great plan. Sony tries to court people to Playstation by limiting choices, it's why they are still very active in timed exclusives (as is Microsoft but to a lesser extent). I can also see why they thought blocking console crossplay would be beneficial to their business but public image is also very important. It is this fine line that I'm sure Microsoft is trying to deal with on some of these new franchises that existed on other platforms they now own. I just think releasing games they now own gives mixed messaging and why Phil said it really does not serve them well by releasing games like Ori on Switch for example in the long run. Why is it ok for Sony to get exclusive rights to franchises they don't own but with Microsoft the goalposts keep getting moved now that they actually do own them?
He wants people to have the best Xbox/Live/Game Pass experience and in order to do that Sony and Nintendo (and Apple) will have to take the full package of xCloud or Game Pass. Otherwise they can afford to not release the games on those platforms, which is exactly what Phil said about a case by case situation.
MS is not directly competing with Valve though, it's all Windows.
A steam users is a PC user who can easily be convinced of Gamepass, because the service is actually available on that platform. Switch and PS users are much harder to convince, because they don't have a way to subscribe and play GP games on their console.
You know, it seems like you are one of the person hating working with/for Microsoft you always talk about in here. Crunch existed before MS.
Is the bolded happening? As far as I know, Microsoft games are available only on Windows. A customer who purchases an Xbox exclusive through Steam is already embedded into the Microsoft ecosystem which helps stave off the threat of other OS's and supports their core business function.
While absolutely there'd be a preference towards releasing on the Windows Store (or non-Steam channels), releasing widely on Windows helps provide another reason for people to be locked into their ecosystem and help protect one of their most significant assets from competitors by providing another incentive to be locked into Windows (and this is before touching upon the comparative marketshare of Steam in the PC space versus Playstation in the console space).
The core competitor in the PC sector for Microsoft isn't Valve, it's Apple (for their hardware and ecosystem), Google (for their productivity suite), and Amazon (for AWS), and as far as I know their games release exclusively on Microsoft platforms (i.e. Windows, Xbox, Gamepass).
*opens door*
Hey guys how cool is this I’m sure excited for the future projects that this backing will enable
*rooms on fire*
*leaves room*
Hey guys how cool is this I’m sure excited for the future projects that this backing will enable
*rooms on fire*
*leaves room*
This doesn't make any sense though.
How is a Steam version convincing anybody?
Hoping each Zenimax studio gets free reign and a budget of 500 million to do whatever the fuck they want.
This and as I've said Gamepass is on PC. Thus they can easily convince Steam users to go to the Xbox app or whatever and subscribe. On PS and Switch there is no way to become a GP users, unless you either buy a device (Series X|S, Xbox One or PC) or you use your phone for cloud gaming. But not every console gamer wants that.
They play the game and end up liking in. Then realize why they paid 60-80€ and think about how they in the past also liked playing Halo. Notice going with Gamepass might be cheaper. Done.
Why does Sony port games to PC? Money sure, but also getting people buying a PS5 for the next game. Similar what Xbox is doing with steam. People play and buy those games and potentially end up subscribing to Gamepass on PC, because it's cheaper in the long term, if the person plays lots of games that are also on GP.
Sure, it's a term that pre-dates computing.
You know, it seems like you are one of the person hating working with/for Microsoft you always talk about in here. Crunch existed before MS.
In context it should be obvious I'm talking about tech here. Microsoft had books written about their "live to work" culture in the 90s. They invented the modern tech campus complete with restaurants inside serving 3 meals a day.. they put T1s with direct connections to the MS internal network in apartment complexes surrounding MS campus.
I don't hate MS, nor have I hated working with them... nor have I ever worked "For them". But I've certainly witnessed their employees working endless 12 hour days over the years. It's a problem in most of tech, and MS isn't immune from it just because there haven't been articles about it.
Is this forum capable of having a conversation without throwing shade at people? Accusing them of things? Snarky sub-posting? Taking things personally when you talk about the corporation they seem to care so much about? Seems not.
Play one MS game through Steam, Play Second MS game through Steam, look at the third one and figure, hmmm, this would be much cheaper with GamePass.
So, releasing those games for 70$ on PS5 could lead people to rethink that and go with Game Pass instead?
Basically the same with steam.
But how will those people on PS5 get Game Pass? Steam is not a direct comparison because PC is an open platform, so it's a lot easier to convince a steam user to subscribe to Game Pass, they literally open the Xbox app.
PS platform doesn't allow that.
?
As a PC user, I have the choice of buying individual games, or joining Game Pass where I can sub and get games "free" instead. Same way I can sub to EA Play Pro (or Ubisoft+ if it were available where I live). All it requires of me is to use a different platform on my same PC. I have that choice.
I don't have to go and spend another $300-$500 just to be able to join Game Pass.
Steam version is still not convincing anybody to go to Game Pass. So, what's the point of the Steam version?
No steam version would lead to more Game Pass subscribers, but Microsoft still releases as Steam version? Why is that?
(Money obviously. Sales matter.)
on xbox, you can buy the games, or play them via game pass
on pc, you can buy the games (on windows store or steam), or play them via game pass
it's not that complicated
plus, the big 3 don't view PC and other consoles the same way. MS is putting everything on there. sony is releasing more and more pc games every year, and even nintendo is ok with their third party exclusive games (octopath, monster hunter rise, etc) coming to pc. just because they put their games on PC and see it as an additional source of revenue doesn't mean they want their games on other consoles as well.
on pc, you can buy the games (on windows store or steam), or play them via game pass
it's not that complicated
plus, the big 3 don't view PC and other consoles the same way. MS is putting everything on there. sony is releasing more and more pc games every year, and even nintendo is ok with their third party exclusive games (octopath, monster hunter rise, etc) coming to pc. just because they put their games on PC and see it as an additional source of revenue doesn't mean they want their games on other consoles as well.
MS is able to fully integrate Xbox Live to those games. They've been pretty clear that they're willing to put games anywhere they can get a full Xbox Live offering on. This is about MAUs.
Additionally, signs point to Game Pass possibly coming to Steam like EA Play recently did.
I think the forum is capable of doing this, but you make this hard on yourself imo. In this post alone you mentioned the 90s, but how does this matter for Xbox in 2021 with a complete different leadership and everything?
You also said their might be people not liking to work with MS or their tools, ... at Bethesda, which in itself is fine I guess. We all have our preferences and which IDE or frameworks for example we like to use... But do you even realize Bethesda started as a PC developer and their first console game was on Xbox? Do you realize the ID Software guy developed now for Windows and Xbox alongside PS for years? So he clearly doesn't hate working with or for Microsoft owned software or hardware. Otherwise he would've been long gone.
So out of all the reason someone could leave a company (family, work environment, money, ...), you really propose us the idea of people leaving, because the PS5 isn't getting ports? That's ridiculous and that's why some made fun of it.
We also know Microsoft sees Minecraft as their preferred way to integrate companies into theirs, keeping culture and everything intact. They learned their lessons in the past and are very aware of the culture of a studio. They won't touch it and in Zenimax case it probably even be a different publisher arm under Xbox. Thus nothing changes, except more money and access to more technology and ressources, while they keep what they keep doing. With the exception of a PS5 port, if that's what MS demands of Zenimax.
The point is if somebody is spending money on Steam to buy Microsoft games they might end up subscribing to gamepass instead because it works out cheaper. You can't really do that with the PS5 because it's not like Sony is going to allow gamepass on their platform.
Plus all the work is already done to make a PC version of a game so it doesn't make that much difference to them if they stick it out on Steam.
Sure, if you tell me how those million consoles gamers, who couldn't care less about PC or Cloud, get Gamepass on PS?
The bolded is part of a strategy to keep people invested in Windows which is a core offering.
The responses re: it releasing on Playstation are slightly (in my opinion) missing the key strategy. Microsoft are hoping to already be able to target Playstation customers by minimising the entry point to their exclusives (even without a PC) through xCloud and the likely future release of low-cost xCloud streaming stick to minimise the barrier to entry while securing a GamePass subscriber. When those prospects can be reached, and are more valuable than a direct sale and become embedded into your ecosystem, there's no sensible reason to release the game outside of your ecosystem to chase what is ultimately chump-change and undercut the value of your service compared to the value of embedding somebody into your services.
I would suspect if Sony allowed GamePass on their console without requiring a cut, Microsoft would find this acceptable but I don't think that is feasible to happen (both as I doubt Sony would allow a direct competitor to develop their ecosystem on Sony's hardware without requiring a significant cut, and I doubt Microsoft would be willing to cut in Sony).
Given that EA Play on Steam was gutted of all third-party content, I was about to say that MS would really need to increase their own output before they even attempt this, as I'm not sure their PC first-party content is currently enough......then I remembered the entire point of this thread that I'm posting in. Yeh, they should be good to go.
My only "concern" is whether it would be separate from current memberships, like how EA Play on Steam isn't included in EA Play on Origin.
You just said that Sony is releasing games on PC so PC players grab a PS5 for the sequels.
If PC player can grab a console, I'm sure PS players can also grab a console if they believe that Game Pass is worth it for them.
But we are going round in circles here.
We just have to see what Microsoft's next steps are with Bethesda to get a clearer picture on what they believe is best for business in this case.
Microsoft returned to Steam because it became apparent that it was too big to ignore. In fact, with a CY 2020 average of 120m MAUs, it's now the largest platform by that metric:
- Bnet recorded an average of ~30m MAUs for Q3 FY 2020, and while this doesn't appear to include Acti-published games (i.e. BLOPS 4, Modern Warfare 2019, and Warzone), I can't imagine those numbers come anywhere close to making up the ~90m deficit
- EGS recorded a CY 2020 56m MAU average despite Fortnite being, well, Fortnite, and a ~50% increase in total user accounts YoY
- PSN recorded an average of 114m MAUs for Q3 FY 2020
- XBL recorded an average of 100m+ MAUs for Q2 FY 2021 ("over 100m", so likely less than 110m)
- Bnet recorded an average of ~30m MAUs for Q3 FY 2020, and while this doesn't appear to include Acti-published games (i.e. BLOPS 4, Modern Warfare 2019, and Warzone), I can't imagine those numbers come anywhere close to making up the ~90m deficit
- EGS recorded a CY 2020 56m MAU average despite Fortnite being, well, Fortnite, and a ~50% increase in total user accounts YoY
- PSN recorded an average of 114m MAUs for Q3 FY 2020
- XBL recorded an average of 100m+ MAUs for Q2 FY 2021 ("over 100m", so likely less than 110m)
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The point of a steam version is to have a bait, other than marketing to convince people to join the service. If you end up liking the game and eventually become a fan of Forza for example, you might consider Gamepass. Something you wouldn't do before, if there is no Forza on Steam.
They can obviously. But what's easier?
- PC: Enjoying a XGS game on steam -> free GP app -> sub.
- PS: Enjoying a XGS game -> buying a console (300-500$) -> free GP app -> sub
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. I'm not on the up and up regarding corporate mergers.
I guess in this sense it's either no customer or some revenue in the meantime. I think this is why Microsoft is taking kind of the same approach Sony is where they won't put everything on it but will test the waters because it doesn't impact their hardware sales as much. So until Microsoft can offer a better service than Steam they are kind of stuck. Much like the situation Epic Game Store is in. On consoles Microsoft can compete there much better by offering hardware that isn't terrible compared to PS5 and Switch. This is why exclusives work so much better with consoles than they do on PC. So on PC they are able to offer better value with Game Pass, on consoles Nintendo and Sony will block it but using the web browser is the only way it will work.
Yes, that is Microsoft's goal, same with getting it on ios. They want you to be part of that ecosystem. It will be interesting if people do in fact use the web browser on the PS5 to sign up for Game Pass and what Sony will think about it?
don't forget that Steam is adding value to the windows 10 platform which is, also thanks to Steam, the the facto standard OS for PC gaming. Maybe putting their games on Steam don't give to MS an immediate return but cultivating gaming on Win10 is certainly a MS interest expecially when competion on the OS side is becoming more and more relevant (e.g. Chrome OS).
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