EuroCosplay ban League of Legends Cosplayer for blackface

Slayven

1000% Demon King
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
44,690
You mean, evil people are dark skinned? That trope?

Yeah, that's not racist in the slightest. *Ahem*.

People, write "race is not a costume" on the blackboard 100x please.
That too, but I was saying the harm of fictionalizing people of color. Like you don't give much thought to orcs and evlves, why would you others you can just cosplay as?
 

Wulfram

Member
Mar 3, 2018
1,159
It's more complex than that I think. Racism is about belief. It doesn't need to be willful or hateful.

"The belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another."

Believing that someone else's race is yours to put on and take off like a costume seems racist to me. Discounting people's upset about it is clearly racist.

As an example of racism without intent, subconsciously clutching your valuables tighter when a black person comes near you is racist, even if you aren't aware of harboring any such beliefs or aren't aware of doing it.
Racism is about belief, I agree, and its not always conscious or hateful, but I do think it needs a discriminatory belief. I don't think deciding to imitate a specific person, particularly in positive context, has that discriminatory element, and I don't think its inherently obvious that skin colour would be specifically unacceptable to imitate while other physical attributes are seen as fair game. Its not acceptable because of the wider cultural context, but this can be missed innocently, particularly if you're privileged enough not to be on the receiving end of racism.

Though I'd think people involved in cosplay on a serious basis, as seems to be the case here, wouldn't stumble into this innocently, because it seems to come up. This isn't some random kid in a Halloween costume making a mistake because they wanted to look like someone they admire.
 

Elephant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,217
Nottingham, UK
It's a bloody good outfit, but yeah stick to your own skin colour. Even if you've done it with the most innocent of intentions, it's a respect thing. There's plenty of white characters out there for you to dress up as instead.
 

plagiarize

Don't touch your face!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
11,338
Cape Cod, MA
Racism is about belief, I agree, and its not always conscious or hateful, but I do think it needs a discriminatory belief. I don't think deciding to imitate a specific person, particularly in positive context, has that discriminatory element, and I don't think its inherently obvious that skin colour would be specifically unacceptable to imitate while other physical attributes are seen as fair game. Its not acceptable because of the wider cultural context, but this can be missed innocently, particularly if you're privileged enough not to be on the receiving end of racism.

Though I'd think people involved in cosplay on a serious basis, as seems to be the case here, wouldn't stumble into this innocently, because it seems to come up. This isn't some random kid in a Halloween costume making a mistake because they wanted to look like someone they admire.
I guess that's really what it comes down to: If you can believe this person had no idea that Black people find such things offensive.

I don't believe a cosplayer in 2019 was unaware of that. Discounting their concerns and doing it anyway would be obviously racist.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,906
Is there a rule for these competitions that the outfit designer has to wear it? Seems a lot easier to just get a model that fits the character than wearing a fucking POC skinsuit.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,309
Las Vegas
Blackface doesn't become acceptable just because you're also painting your arms. I'd say I can't believe people are giving that argument the time of day, but...well, yeah, unfortunately I can.
Justin Tradeau literally painted his entire body black and rightfully got called out on it. BlackBody is worse. Not sure if thats even a phrase but you get what I'm saying.
 

Green Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,749
Why not just cosplay as your natural skin color? It's something that POC are practically forced to do considering the lack of representation and they almost always look incredible.

Their post afterwards is gross, too.
 

Dog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,518
It's a bloody good outfit, but yeah stick to your own skin colour. Even if you've done it with the most innocent of intentions, it's a respect thing. There's plenty of white characters out there for you to dress up as instead.
Agree with this.

She shouldn't have done it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,456
England
Why not just cosplay as your natural skin color? It's something that POC are practically forced to do considering the lack of representation and they almost always look incredible.

Their post afterwards is gross, too.
I assume the issue is they were going for accuracy. They could've just worn clothes evocative of the character like a basic cosplay, I s'pose, but that obviously isn't as striking or impressive and if the goal was to win a competition then a typical cosplay wouldn't cut it.

Which then causes issues like this. White people shouldn't cosplay as black characters and, yes, that does not also mean black people can't cosplay as white characters if they want to. It's nothing personal and it's not "reverse racism" or whatever the buzzword is - it's simply a consequence of how white people used to use blackface to insult and ridicule black people.

So if you wanna blame anyone, blame your ancestors.
 

LocoRoco

Member
Feb 22, 2019
505
User Banned (1 Week): Excusing Blackface
i ll problably get a ban, but i have to say something about this.

I m a black guy from Brazil and i dont get it.

We have ppl of all nations doing cosplay of the character they love, the character could be black, white, blue, yellow, green, gray, orc, elves, mecha, japanese the color or race dosent matter, what metters for me if it is a cosplay that pay respect to that character and his race ( color ) or if its a mockery.

I cant stand ppl that mockery other races, but when i see someone that put so much work on a cosplay to pay respect to a character, i cant see how this is bad.

in this specific case i do see she anything that would make me upset and as long as there is respect in what she is doing I have no problem with that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
Houston
Garen is so laaaaaame tho; at least do Darius. Considering I presume Pike is her fave champ, I dislike the notion of just picking a different one just because her race doesn't match. If that were the case, there wouldn't have been any nonwhite/asian cosplayers in the scene for years because, prior to Lucian, there were literally 2 human champs that fit that description.
b/c everything has too any white or white skinned asians (Or League's problem whitee skinned thin female heavy and skins) you do what everyone else that's not white or asian has to do when cosplaying
wear the thing that signifies that you are that character. she could have done literally everything Pyke except the skin tone and people would have known she was Pyke
 

Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
3,150
White = good and black = bad is more an old christianity thing.
is it? Because there are many example of "black holy mary" in Europe. And one of the three Wise Men has traditionally always be represented black.
And Christinaity basically is from Middle East and gain immediate traction in the Mediterranean Basin.

I can't think of a canonical example of white=good black=bad in Christianity before the Slave Trade and the creation of the concept of "race".
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,782
is it? Because there are many example of "black holy mary" in Europe. And one of the three Wise Men has traditionally always be represented black.
And Christinaity basically is from Middle East and gain immediate traction in the Mediterranean Basin.

I can't think of a canonical example of white=good black=bad in Christianity before the Slave Trade and the creation of the concept of "race".
I assume they're probably referring to light versus darkness imagery. People were generally less interested in grouping themselves and others by skin colour before we started getting into European colonization, and instead would look more at religious, tribal, citizen status lines and things like that. Like, Egyptians called themselves black, but because of the soil they lived on rather defining themslves by their skin.
 

Thera

Member
Feb 28, 2019
3,028
is it? Because there are many example of "black holy mary" in Europe. And one of the three Wise Men has traditionally always be represented black.
And Christinaity basically is from Middle East and gain immediate traction in the Mediterranean Basin.

I can't think of a canonical example of white=good black=bad in Christianity before the Slave Trade and the creation of the concept of "race".
Don't know if legit but : http://www.wou.edu/wp/exhibits/files/2015/07/christianity.pdf
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,782
Putting accuracy aside, a lot of the words on that particular document don't really match up cleanly to what you're saying. The first part of the symbolism of the colour black has to do with the womb, while the Catholicism and medieval Christianity who the document is specific to were big on venerating the mother of Jesus. The last part associates the colour with one of the days of the most important religious observance of the Christian calendar.

Not to say you're wrong overall, but that's not the best thing to demonstrate a white/black good/evil dichotomy.
 
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Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,068
I think a lot of people don’t grasp the concept of ( equal rules don’t make everything equal ) they just see “ so I can’t dress up as a black person and I can’t turn a black Popular character white? But poc can do the opposite and it’s okay??“

the difference isn’t just about offending people it’s that the broader picture isn’t equal even if there rules were. In this case the sheer lack of representation over all makes all the difference.
So the balance has to be shifted more in one direction for a while to really get the playing field even.

Of course... that’s just in this context of “ not done in hate” if anyone dresses up as a different race for hateful reasons then those people are always in the wrong.
 

Thera

Member
Feb 28, 2019
3,028
Putting accuracy aside, a lot of the words on that particular document don't really match up cleanly to what you're saying. The first part of the symbolism of the colour black has to do with the womb, while the Catholicism and medieval Christianity who the document is specific to were big on venerating the mother of Jesus. The last part associates the colour with one of the days of the most important religious observance of the Christian calendar.

Not to say you're wrong overall, but that's not the best thing to demonstrate a white/black good/evil dichotomy.
I am really not a specialist on the matter and can be prove wrong at any time, no problem at all.
And it is not only about color, you have the same thing with light and darkness.
 

Thera

Member
Feb 28, 2019
3,028
I think a lot of people don’t grasp the concept of ( equal rules don’t make everything equal ) they just see “ so I can’t dress up as a black person and I can’t turn a black Popular character white? But poc can do the opposite and it’s okay??“

the difference isn’t just about offending people it’s that the broader picture isn’t equal even if there rules were. In this case the sheer lack of representation over all makes all the difference.
So the balance has to be shifted more in one direction for a while to really get the playing field even.

Of course... that’s just in this context of “ not done in hate” if anyone dresses up as a different race for hateful reasons then those people are always in the wrong.
Yep, but to understand that, you need to have empathy and my experience with people showed that it is not really a common quality.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,974
Columbia, SC
Could have just put the costume on and that would have been fine on it's own. Any more than that and you've gone into blackface territory. Skin color is not a fucking costume
 

mentallyinept

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,783
In another, parallel universe, where systemic institutional racism wasn't a thing that happened and continues to happen, this could be viewed as as a pretty incredible artistic achievement.

But in this reality, where it did happen and continues to happen, it's viewed as nothing more than a giant wasted effort that ends up propping up racism.

I wish I lived in one of those hypothetical realities, but you can't pretend to be in a parallel universe when there are real societal consequences to this behavior.
 

Anton Sugar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,260
A white woman resorting to blackface also happens to be bigoted towards non-binary people AND directs harassment towards those people, what a surprise!


The people banned in this thread should be aware of that, blackface isn't respectful of the character or of people, and it's clear she got other issues like her bigotry coming out in full display so she isn't some good person in general.
Thinking of all the bans in here--*this* is the hill they chose to die on. Woof.
 

Aizō

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,104
ほぼ真ん中の方
Serious question, would wearing one of those Obama president masks be considered blackface?

This reminds me of a recent comic, American Carnage. There is a racist hitman who wears an Obama mask while working. I now have Obama masks immediately tied to racism at first glance. Obviously, a white person wearing that would not be right. Can't see it even being worn for something other than mockery.
 

MrCibb

Member
Dec 12, 2018
1,303
UK
What confuses me is, this isn't a new thing. Blackface isn't some brand new 2019 concept we're only just learning about and so we all need to be patient for others to catch up. It's never been okay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
Houston
is it? Because there are many example of "black holy mary" in Europe. And one of the three Wise Men has traditionally always be represented black.
And Christinaity basically is from Middle East and gain immediate traction in the Mediterranean Basin.

I can't think of a canonical example of white=good black=bad in Christianity before the Slave Trade and the creation of the concept of "race".
could probably be from Roman times at the high of the usage of the word barbaric
 

sensui-tomo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,301
As a white guy who sometimes gets into cosplay. How fucking hard is it to just not do blackface. It's really that fucking simple. But as the graveyard shows in this thread people really dont understand. Haven't kept up on past posts but did anyone equate to using paint on characters from fictionalized characters to black people yet ? Aka like if I can blue myself to look like widowmaker and that's fine, doing the same but black is fine. Because I want to laugh at that post and how wrong that is.
 

KayonXaikyre

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,120
I'm black and I think the best way to explain it is that black people dress up as white or fair skinned characters all the time (because for one there isn't a lot of black characters to begin with) and we don't have to paint ourselves white or wear skin suits or usually even think to do that unless specifically trying to make fun of white people. You can just take the hairstyles, scars, clothing, body type, and all the other things with your normal skintone and it'll look good and no one is going to call it whitewashing because that's not even what whitewashing is lol. I've seen a black girl cosplay todoroki and she looked very authentic while only just painting the red region on her face and doing all the other necessary things to make high quality cosplay while not painting her skin white.

The problem comes from people thinking that high quality means it should be allowed, but it should be treated the same as something low quality because it ultimately accomplishes the same thing. Just because you like the way it looks doesn't change what it is. It is possible to be unaware and not realize how offensive something is, but you shouldn't be doubling down on it after the fact especially when given the context of the information. Going oh hey it's not blackface because hes a shark thing blah blah means you've heard someone call it that, deny it, and are knowingly supporting your actions that what you've done has offended people. It's saying I hear you, but I don't care because I find myself and my hard work more important than your history and I should get a pass.
 

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,904
U, S, and A
God damn I am surprised I came back to this thread to find people still getting banned for supporting this. It's fucked up ya'll. Ok so imagine you're a person of color and someone pretends to be you.

I am half asian, and this shit here really hurt when I was young: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULhTIAjke2k

There are a lot more videos of her doing this out there. The show was a raging success. She was basically making fun of my relatives not because they were funny, but out of cruelty. It's the same thing when people dress up as blacks in the US. If you can't see this I am not sure what to say.