European investors threaten to pull money from Brazil over Amazon. Seven firms told Reuters they will divest funds if they do not see progress

SilentPanda · Jun 20, 2020

Seven major European investment firms have told Reuters news agency they will divest from beef producers, grains traders and even government bonds in Brazil if they do not see progress in resolving the surging destruction of the Amazon rainforest.

The rising threats from investors with more than $2 trillion in assets under management, including Finland-based Nordea and the United Kingdom's Legal & General Investment Management (LGIM), show how the private sector is taking global action to protect the world's largest rainforest.

Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro has shrugged off diplomatic pressure on the matter.
Deforestation of Brazil's Amazon surged to an 11-year high in 2019, Bolsonaro's first year in office, and has risen a further 34 percent in the first five months of 2020, according to preliminary data from the government space research agency INPE. The right-wing populist has weakened environmental protections and called for more mining and farming in the Amazon region.
"The trends we've seen in Brazil are very concerning," said Daniela da Costa-Bulthuis, Brazil portfolio manager for the Netherlands-based asset manager Robeco. "You have a dismantling of the regulatory mechanisms of environmental control since last year."

European investors threaten to pull money from Brazil over Amazon

Seven firms told Reuters they will divest funds if they do not see progress in resolving the Amazon’s deforestation.

www.aljazeera.com

So will economy warning like this be more effective then political warning from before?

Platy · Jun 20, 2020

I knew bolsonaro would be a bad president but dear god the asshole keeps blwoing my expectations away

.exe · Jun 20, 2020

Now they take notice?
I wonder what prompted them to.

Rex Griswold · Jun 20, 2020

It saddens me that the financial threats will be what likely cause any change at all, but at least something is being done.

Deleted member 8852 · Jun 20, 2020

Call me when they actually do it.

myojinsoga · Jun 20, 2020

Why have these firms done this?

What sort of pressure could cause other firms to do the same?

Ac30 · Jun 20, 2020

.exe said:
Now they take notice?
I wonder what prompted them to.

myojinsoga said:
Why have these firms done this?

What sort of pressure could cause other firms to do the same?

Can't make money if there's no world to make money in. Climate risk is quickly becoming material to many firms these days.

TheMadTitan · Jun 20, 2020

Don't threaten it, just do it. Give them 30-60 days to reverse & institute new policies or yank your money.

Spine Crawler · Jun 20, 2020

.exe said:
Now they take notice?
I wonder what prompted them to.

global warming is a real threat not a theory

myojinsoga · Jun 20, 2020

Ac30 said:
Can't make money if there's no world to make money in. Climate risk is quickly becoming material to many firms these days.

If we're reaching the point where even the short sighted profit motive has nowhere left to turn, then that's scary and encouraging in equal measure.

.exe · Jun 20, 2020

Ac30 said:
Can't make money if there's no world to make money in. Climate risk is quickly becoming material to many firms these days.

Corporate consciousness is a scary concept but if it helps us get a to a sustainable society, I will get over it.

entremet · Jun 20, 2020

I know nothing of Brazilian politics but this guy sounds horrible.

Byakuya769 · Jun 20, 2020

Good. But when we're past this asshole, Europe and the US need to take a hard look at what sort of monetary compensation we should be providing nations like Brazil to preserve their forests.

We benefitted from wanton deforestation and now want to pump the brakes for other nations quickly developing. Well, they deserve some cash consideration.

Deleted member 31133 · Jun 20, 2020

Good news, however it really won't make much of a difference in terms of the apocalypse we're sleep walking into.

Deleted member 135 · Jun 20, 2020

Byakuya769 said:
Good. But when we're past this asshole, Europe and the US need to take a hard look at what sort of monetary compensation we should be providing nations like Brazil to preserve their forests.

We benefitted from wanton deforestation and now want to
pump the brakes for other nations quickly developing. Well, they deserve some cash consideration.

That's up for debate.

Byakuya769 · Jun 20, 2020

SG-17 said:
That's up for debate.

What is?

Brazil · Jun 20, 2020

Byakuya769 said:
What is?

SG-17 actually thinks we should be invaded (as in, war-style invaded) and have the Amazon taken from us, and they've been coming into every single one of these threads for years now to make that clear.

Don't expect anything there.

Byakuya769 · Jun 20, 2020

Brazil said:
SG-17 actually thinks we should be invaded (as in, war-style invaded) and have the Amazon taken from us, and they've been coming into every single one of these threads for years now to make that clear.

Don't expect anything there.

Good lord. What the fuck.

Thanks for the heads up. That sort of militaristic thinking is part and parcel with the problem of many wanting to wag their fingers at others about the environment as they swim in the profits born from the annihilation of their local biomes.

kmfdmpig · Jun 20, 2020

Brazil said:
SG-17 actually thinks we should be invaded (as in, war-style invaded) and have the Amazon taken from us, and they've been coming into every single one of these threads for years now to make that clear.

Don't expect anything there.

That's a crazy stance. Even if someone were blind to the moral/human costs of war how in the world would an invasion not damage the hell out of the forest?

Deleted member 135 · Jun 20, 2020

Brazil has been an independent country just shy of 200 years, the US figured out sustainable land management and forestry in less time than that. Brazil has no legitimate reason to hold the Amazon hostage for cash.

Also I think that radical solutions are needed to prevent catastrophic climate collapse. If the US lifted all restrictions on Arctic drilling and was going to completely destroy that environment I'd want a military response from other nations if all else failed.

There seems to be a lack of understanding about how just critically important the Amazon is to the habitability of the Earth. If it goes, so do most higher lifeforms. Also everyone seems to be missing the qualifier "if all else fails", intervention should literally be a last chance hail mary throw to prevent total system collapse.

kmfdmpig · Jun 20, 2020

SG-17 said:
Brazil has been an independent country just shy of 200 years, the US figured out sustainable land management and forestry in less time than that. Brazil has no legitimate reason to hold the Amazon hostage for cash.

Also I think that radical solutions are needed to prevent catastrophic climate collapse. If the US lifted all restrictions on Arctic drilling and was going to completely destroy that environment I'd want a military response from other nations if all else failed.

You seem quick to deny others their freedom, as well as quick to condemn people to death or colonization. It's not a good look even if it's in the name of environmentalism.

Heromanz · Jun 20, 2020

SG-17 said:
Brazil has been an independent country just shy of 200 years, the US figured out sustainable land management and forestry in less time than that. Brazil has no legitimate reason to hold the Amazon hostage for cash.

Also I think that radical solutions are needed to prevent catastrophic climate collapse. If the US lifted all restrictions on Arctic drilling and was going to completely destroy that environment I'd want a military response from other nations if all else failed.

This is a stupidest thing I've ever read here.

Heromanz · Jun 20, 2020

SG-17 said:
Brazil has been an independent country just shy of 200 years, the US figured out sustainable land management and forestry in less time than that. Brazil has no legitimate reason to hold the Amazon hostage for cash.

Also I think that radical solutions are needed to prevent catastrophic climate collapse. If the US lifted all restrictions on Arctic drilling and was going to completely destroy that environment I'd want a military response from other nations if all else failed.

Like do you not understand history and shit?

Heromanz · Jun 20, 2020

Like the idea that military invention ,that would do way way more damage and would destroy the Amazon at that point, is a good idea? Like that some dumb dumb thinkin bro

Madison · Jun 20, 2020

SG-17 said:
Brazil has been an independent country just shy of 200 years, the US figured out sustainable land management and forestry in less time than that. Brazil has no legitimate reason to hold the Amazon hostage for cash.

Also I think that radical solutions are needed to prevent catastrophic climate collapse. If the US lifted all restrictions on Arctic drilling and was going to completely destroy that environment I'd want a military response from other nations if all else failed.

Excuse me, what is this invasion rhetoric? What other countries do you want the US to militarily invade? We have enough with our problems.

Some people really think that the US is the superhero of the world, jesus christ.

Equippedwithtowel · Jun 20, 2020

SG-17 said:
Brazil has been an independent country just shy of 200 years, the US figured out sustainable land management and forestry in less time than that. Brazil has no legitimate reason to hold the Amazon hostage for cash.

Also I think that radical solutions are needed to prevent catastrophic climate collapse. If the US lifted all restrictions on Arctic drilling and was going to completely destroy that environment I'd want a military response from other nations if all else failed.

"sustainable" aka propping up incredibly damanging industrial production with insane subsidies courtesy of the debt financing other nations have afforded the US

but go off i guess

NSESN · Jun 20, 2020

Spoilers: most of the people destroying the Amazon aren't even Brazilian

If people think it is only farmers that are doing it they are very mistaken, just as an example American and European companies use the Amazon and other Brazilian water supply to produce their products, nestle is a big offender. There is also animal traffickers

Ctrl Alt Del · Jun 20, 2020

SG-17 said:
Brazil has been an independent country just shy of 200 years, the US figured out sustainable land management and forestry in less time than that. Brazil has no legitimate reason to hold the Amazon hostage for cash.

Also I think that radical solutions are needed to prevent catastrophic climate collapse. If the US lifted all restrictions on Arctic drilling and was going to completely destroy that environment I'd want a military response from other nations if all else failed.

How is this view allowed here?

Mivey · Jun 20, 2020

SG-17 said:
Brazil has been an independent country just shy of 200 years, the US figured out sustainable land management and forestry in less time than that. Brazil has no legitimate reason to hold the Amazon hostage for cash.

Also I think that radical solutions are needed to prevent catastrophic climate collapse. If the US lifted all restrictions on Arctic drilling and was going to completely destroy that environment I'd want a military response from other nations if all else failed.

Never thought I'd see a serios, non-ironic neocon interventionist talking point on Era.
Just shows that Era is not as much a "bubble" a people keep saying.

ScoobsJoestar · Jun 20, 2020

Ctrl Alt Del said:
How is this view allowed here?

There's a lot of posts like this when it comes to Brazil. There was a thread a while back about the Amazon and a good amount of the thread was saying some "invade Brazil" shit that wouldn't be tolerated if it was about any other country but, you know.

Brazil · Jun 20, 2020

NSESN said:
Spoilers: most of the people destroying the Amazon aren't even Brazilian

If people think it is only farmers that are doing it they are very mistaken, just as an example American and European companies use the Amazon and other Brazilian water supply to produce their products, nestle is a big offender. There is also animal traffickers

It's still happening under our watch, though.

But you do have to wonder if a complete and proper shutdown of all of that wouldn't cause an even bigger reaction against our Amazon policies from abroad. The concern trolling levels would be off the charts.

Deleted member 5028 · Jun 20, 2020

.exe said:
Now they take notice?
I wonder what prompted them to.

Can't make money when we are dead

Ding Dong Daddy · Jun 20, 2020

Brazil said:
SG-17 actually thinks we should be invaded (as in, war-style invaded) and have the Amazon taken from us, and they've been coming into every single one of these threads for years now to make that clear.

Don't expect anything there.

Same guy who wants the US to annex Canada.

Canada and America need to unite (like the European Union).

I feel so honored that some of you take the time to dig this up and bookmark it. I still stand by everything I've said in this post. At least read the bolded part before you post. TL;DR: Single Economy and Freedom of Movement. Of course the rest of North America and Caribbean in time as...

www.resetera.com

NSESN · Jun 20, 2020

Brazil said:
It's still happening under our watch, though.

But you do have to wonder if a complete and proper shutdown of all of that wouldn't cause an even bigger reaction against our Amazon policies from abroad. The concern trolling levels would be off the charts.

Of course our government has much to blame but anyone thinking that international corporations dont profit from it are naive

Deleted member 39374 · Jun 20, 2020

.exe said:
Now they take notice?
I wonder what prompted them to.

Global warming/climate change has been deemed a threat to business (capitalism)

Broken clocks I guess

kmfdmpig · Jun 20, 2020

Ding Dong Daddy said:
Same guy who wants the US to annex Canada.

Canada and America need to unite (like the European Union).

I feel so honored that some of you take the time to dig this up and bookmark it. I still stand by everything I've said in this post. At least read the bolded part before you post. TL;DR: Single Economy and Freedom of Movement. Of course the rest of North America and Caribbean in time as...

www.resetera.com

It's funny to see someone identify a problem and then create a solution that does so much more harm.
It's like a "I will nuke my house from orbit to kill a spider" but presented seriously.

John Doe · Jun 20, 2020

Won't this have a major impact on the people of Brazil rather than the people causing the problem?

Ctrl Alt Del · Jun 20, 2020

John Doe said:
Won't this have a major impact on the people of Brazil rather than the people causing the problem?

Yes. That's what economic sanctions are once they evolve from threat to fact.

John Doe · Jun 20, 2020

Ctrl Alt Del said:
Yes. That's what economic sanctions are once they evolve from threat to fact.

Then why are some posters on Era so enamored with the idea of imposing sanctions?

(Not just on Brazil but any country that is doing something terrible)

Ctrl Alt Del · Jun 20, 2020

John Doe said:
Then why are some posters on Era so enamored with the idea of imposing sanctions?

(Not just on Brazil but any country that is doing something terrible)

Sometimes it's justifiable as a means of applying pressure to sway a foreign government without using hard power and other 19th century means. Ideally, you want this kind of measure to never become a fact and the threat of imposing them sufficing to change policy makers minds' - or the short term consequences spurring the nationals to pressure the government or oust it.

This is our mess to solve, but I do believe the international community should extend the carrot and pool in resources to see the rainforest preserved instead. It's a complicated matter because our current minister of environment is a businessman embroiled with deforestation profiteers, but the establishment is so riddled with problems on all fronts this is issue is barely discussed.

Brazil · Jun 20, 2020

Ctrl Alt Del said:
Sometimes it's justifiable as a means of applying pressure to sway a foreign government without using hard power and other 19th century means. Ideally, you want this kind of measure to never become a fact and the threat of imposing them sufficing to change policy makers minds' - or the short term consequences spurring the nationals to pressure the government or oust it.

This is our mess to solve, but I do believe the international community should extend the carrot and pool in resources to see the rainforest preserved instead. It's a complicated matter because our current minister of environment is a businessman embroiled with deforestation profiteers, but the establishment is so riddled with problems on all fronts this is issue is barely discussed.

It's impossible to imagine any positive discussions or measures coming to fruition under our current leadership. External forces are bound to act on their own because the government simply isn't open for dialogue.

We're barely able to function in "resist mode" given our current predicament. It's really upsetting.

Byakuya769 · Jun 20, 2020

SG-17 said:
Brazil has been an independent country just shy of 200 years, the US figured out sustainable land management and forestry in less time than that. Brazil has no legitimate reason to hold the Amazon hostage for cash.

Also I think that radical solutions are needed to prevent catastrophic climate collapse. If the US lifted all restrictions on Arctic drilling and was going to completely destroy that environment I'd want a military response from other nations if all else failed.

There seems to be a lack of understanding about how just critically important the Amazon is to the habitability of the Earth. If it goes, so do most higher lifeforms. Also everyone seems to be missing the qualifier "if all else fails", intervention should literally be a last chance hail mary throw to prevent total system collapse.

Your initial premise is false, and again ignores the forest destruction in the United States. Which we've used to our industrial advantage before our come to Jesus moment on conservation.

Source.
But the more I thought about your argument here, I'm more disgusted by your rejection of cash payments as some sort of ransom and unprincipled, solely to proffer that killing fellow humans is the better tact. Keep in mind that any military action like that would be incredibly expensive and globally destabilizing. So if it's not the cost that you're really bothered by, what's your aim? Just naked bloodlust? You want to crank it a few times to some dreams about black and brown people being blown to hell and back?

Just a fucking filthy argument and you should feel ashamed for not only thinking it up once but deciding that it's worth debating and bringing up into multiple threads.

Get help.

Deleted member 7130 · Jun 20, 2020

Ctrl Alt Del said:
How is this view allowed here?

Oh, boy... you should see all the rooting for the Bolivian coup that went on.

Untzillatx · Jun 20, 2020

John Doe said:
Then why are some posters on Era so enamored with the idea of imposing sanctions?

(Not just on Brazil but any country that is doing something terrible)

Economic sanctions affect both to the local capitalist elite and the regular everyday people, usually negatively. This causes restlessness and political pressure and may convince a government to take action if they think that losing elections (if a democracy) or facing a coup (if not) are possible outcomes

Bard · Jun 20, 2020

John Doe said:
Then why are some posters on Era so enamored with the idea of imposing sanctions?

(Not just on Brazil but any country that is doing something terrible)

Sanctions are awful but at the same time, with the sort of trash that is sadly currently leading the country sometimes there is no other option. These sorts of people only care about money and if you hurt their bottom line and put political pressure on them from the segment that usually props them up, they'll be more willing to cooperate because lord knows just sending a strongly worded letter won't shame these pieces of shit into action. Especially when they're shameless ignorant scum like Bozo and his band of bootlickers.

European investors threaten to pull money from Brazil over Amazon. Seven firms told Reuters they will divest funds if they do not see progress

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge

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