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European Parliament 2019 Elections |OT| Electing the Unelected and Unelectable Since 1979

Who are you voting for?

  • European People's Party

    Votes: 21 2.9%

  • Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats

    Votes: 95 13.0%

  • European Conservatives and Reformers

    Votes: 20 2.7%

  • Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe

    Votes: 109 14.9%

  • European United Left - Nordic Green Left

    Votes: 72 9.8%

  • Greens - European Free Alliance

    Votes: 331 45.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 84 11.5%
  • Total voters
    732

Deleted member 34788

User requested account closure
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Nov 29, 2017
3,545
Kaitos said:
this will probably not placate anyone

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Eh? A bit wordy for sure, but once again he mentions a second ref, as a legitimate option.

In fact the wording now says either. Any sort of working with even a future Tory gov is out of the window. They painted themselves to mention that in previous statements and even in the party conference last year. That plank has gone. It's frustrating but the position is moving towards a second ref.

Despite us wanting to, lab will not suddenly become balls to the wall pro remain. But they will damn sure move that way after tonights results. The remain branch in the party is gaining strength.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
Boy Wander said:
Weak ass statement from a weak ass leader. The worst PM in living memory has made a total shitshow of the main issue of the day and Corbyn has taken literally zero fucking advantage of it. If you still think he's fit to govern, you need your head examining.
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Should he have ignored the referendum and been pro EU or ignored his party and be really pro brexit?
 
ezodagrom

ezodagrom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
864
Portugal
Paquete_PT said:
Abstention here in Portugal was 70%, I'm hugely disappointed with my people. Yes, politics are mostly the same year after year, yes they focused on debating the national issues and couldn't look at the bigger picture and focus in Europe and its current challenges, yes the media are to blame, but f-you if you spend the year complaining but then don't take a few minutes to vote. We just left a dictatorship 45 years ago, a little more than 100 years ago women couldn't vote. It drives me mad.
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Yeah, pretty disappointing, I did my part I guess. :x

But on a more positive note, I'm surprised on how well PAN (Greens) did, going from a sub 2% party to 5%, getting close to both CDS and CDU.
While this time I voted for PS (S&D) as in a lesser of the evils kind of way, I'll keep an eye on PAN for the future (the other left parties are just a big no for me, I really don't like the anti Euro stances of both CDU and BE).
 
Regulus Tera

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
So from what I'm getting from EU elections tonight is that a 2nd Brexit referendum would be as tight as the first one? Is that a fair assessment?
 

Deleted member 34788

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Nov 29, 2017
3,545
PJV3 said:
Should he have ignored the referendum and been pro EU or ignored his party and be really pro brexit?
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The lib Dems jumped the gun on this in the 2017 GE and paid the price. Time was always going to shove the UK to a majority remain position, demographics were going to see to that, the lib Dems just fired the shot too early. Labs remain MPs saw this and played the long game. Remember if it wasn't for cooper and the likes, and remain MPs working together, we'd crash out of the EU by now.

Look at the lib Dems now, almost 2 years on. Played a blinder both in the local elections and EU one.
 

Deleted member 37233

Banned
Jan 2, 2018
10,699
Kaitos said:
problem for them is the youth flocking for The Greens.

They've been able to stay out of the fray as a legitimate opposition to CDU/CSU by not being in the grand coalition. They are soaking up the youth vote who sees climate change as a #1 issue. And they're even getting a few center-right votes because they're not SDP.
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I'm hopeful for a coalition between the CDU+CSU and The Greens after the next GE, like in Hesse or Baden-Wuerttemberg. I'm really tired of the Grand Coalition (the name is also a joke with those SPD results everywhere).
 
Red Arremer

Red Arremer

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
12,259
Austrian results - actual in-person voting 100% completely counted + an estimation of the postal votes.
Margin of error 0.5%, turnout 59.3% (which is very high for an EU election). Minimum to be eligible for a seat is at least 4% (though in practice it's more).
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ÖVP = Conservatives (+2 seats)
SPÖ = Social Democrats
FPÖ = Rightwingers (-1 seat)
Grüne = Greens (-1 seat)
NEOS = Liberals
1 Europa = Leftist populists
Sonstige = Misc, though that's entirely the communist party KPÖ, dunno why they're marking it as Misc.

Pretty miffed at just how much the Conservatives gained this time around. There's some polls that show that the vast majority of ÖVP voters are people over 60.
Meanwhile, a lot of youth (29 and younger) voted for Greens who, unsurprisingly, didn't even crack 10% with the aforementioned 60+ crowd.
 
Zafir

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,006
Regulus Tera said:
So from what I'm getting from EU elections tonight is that a 2nd Brexit referendum would be as tight as the first one? Is that a fair assessment?
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It's difficult to conclude really.

If you compare the staunchly pro remain parties vs the leave under any circumstance parties then it's fairly even.

The problem is the Labour votes and to a lesser extent Tory votes. It's hard to say where to put them. I'd argue the Labour ones likely lean more towards the second referendum camp because the MEPs largely supported it, so that could suggest the country is more remain. Tories, who knows.

Then you have the final issue that lot of leave voters didn't bother to vote because they didn't think this election should have happened, so that adds another layer...
 
Kaitos

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,705
looks like what we expected also - this will be the first time in European Parliamentary elections the turnout will be higher than the previous election. thanks, Brexit.

Zafir said:
It's difficult to conclude really.

If you compare the staunchly pro remain parties vs the leave under any circumstance parties then it's fairly even.

The problem is the Labour votes and to a lesser extent Tory votes. It's hard to say where to put them. I'd argue the Labour ones likely lean more towards the second referendum camp because the MEPs largely supported it, so that could suggest the country is more remain. Tories, who knows.

Then you have the final issue that lot of leave voters didn't bother to vote because they didn't think this election should have happened, so that adds another layer...
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exactly.
 

Bliman

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Banned
Jan 21, 2019
1,443
SuikerBrood said:
But still, is immigration the real problem? Or is it the government not being able to provide decent care for it's citizens?

Europe should protect their borders, it's a shame that many people in Dutch and Belgian immigration centers are from 'safe countries' such as Albania, Morocco and sub-Saharan countries. It puts the whole immigration system to a halt.

But most of all, it's up to the government to provide good care for their citizens.
- Having enough houses on the lower segment of the market (Currently, people get angry because immigrants get free housing or receive a home before local people do.) solves a lot of problems.
- Improving the efficiency of the integration and immigration services

If you want to go further, solving the 'immigration problem' becomes really difficult. The problem is subjective. For some people, nobody should enter their country. Some people think only refugees should temporarily come into the country. And some people want to stimulate economic immigration because of a population becoming older and older.

So yes, immigration is a big topic, but I don't believe voting for the extreme right solves any issues. I do believe it has made political parties in Europe more aware of the negative effects of immigration. Both from the EU and outside the EU.
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You gave a very good response. It is all intertwined. Everything is controlled by media, pro and anti-migration and anti-migration is winning (mostly because very effective Facebook posts and such where it is stated that you can come here and be a Belgian in a day and benefit from the system and get lot's of money (I think many Americans relate to this issue, because it is the same rhetoric that Trump uses). Then their is the visual effects of for example the Nord station in Brussels. I agree the problem is subjective. But that's why the right wins, because they offer simple solutions that people understand. It is not easy to explain complex issues. It is also quite like in America. If you would explain that you would help people that come from war-torn countries only, or make it a positive story (like when you collect money for disasters) then things would get much better. But Europe plays much too hard in the hand of Brexiteers and extreme right, by being vague and not explaining enough and not handling fast enough and not spreading the solution over the whole of Europe. So it is an intertwined issue because the visuals are bad and the stories are bad and everything getting more expensive (where people think it would go better if there wasn't so much immigration or if the factories wouldn't go to other countries).
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
solidussnaku said:
The lib Dems jumped the gun on this in the 2017 GE and paid the price. Time was always going to shove the UK to a majority remain position, demographics were going to see to that, the lib Dems just fired the shot too early. Labs remain MPs saw this and played the long game. Remember if it wasn't for cooper and the likes, and remain MPs working together, we'd crash out of the EU by now.

Look at the lib Dems now, almost 2 years on. Played a blinder both in the local elections and EU one.
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I think he's actually done about as good as could be expected even if it was an accident forced on him by the party , he has been gradually moving at a glacial pace to the right option.

I think ChUK did the libdems a big favour and kinda helped rebrand them as the not completely useless pro remain party just at the right moment.
 

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3,545
Acorn said:
Higher than I expected. Thanks.

I still think there are more lazy remain voters out there.
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I work in an office where about 60% voted remain. They didn't know the elections were on untill the day of voting. Due to the weather being nice, a good few of them didn't bother to vote even after I gave them shit for it. The leavers, a fair few of them, did.
 
Acorn

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
solidussnaku said:
I work in an office where about 60% voted remain. They didn't know the elections were on untill the day of voting. Due to the weather being nice, a good few of them didn't bother to vote even after I gave them shit for it. The leavers, a fair few of them, did.
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It's been the curse of EU elections, people that hate the EU are motivated to vote, everyone else not so much. It's what begun our path to brexit imo.
 

Deleted member 835

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Oct 25, 2017
15,660
Result is basically same in UK, no one has a clue what dudes want again. Then loads of people so pissed with politics they don't vote
 
GMM

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,481
Becks' said:
BTW, those are the highest turnout numbers in history. At least in Czech Republic and Slovakia.
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That's crazy, had no idea EU elections were that low in interest in those countries, but those are some massive increases in turnout for most countries.

Also, the 13% turnout in Slovakia in 2014, damn.
 
Red Arremer

Red Arremer

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
12,259
Ravensmash said:
Damn, watching BBC - Scotland went all SNP pretty much
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How likely do the Brits think Scotland breaking away from the UK is at this point?

Acorn said:
Damn, the EU really needs to do something about that and soon. Don't ask me what though because I don't have a clue, ha.
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Mandatory voting sounds very appealing, though it didn't stop countries like Brazil or Turkey, that do have it (tho iirc Turkey isn't enforcing it), from electing a fascist so.
 
Shodan14

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
Acorn said:
Damn, the EU really needs to do something about that and soon. Don't ask me what though because I don't have a clue, ha.
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Well, Belgium has mandatory voting. Other countries like Lithuania have combined it with other elections.

Red Arremer said:
Mandatory voting sounds very appealing, though it didn't stop countries like Brazil or Turkey, that do have it (tho iirc Turkey isn't enforcing it), from electing a fascist so.
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It's not meant to stop anything though, just get more representative results.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
Boy Wander said:
At least by picking a side he'd show a pair of bollocks.
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I don't think it is that important when you are years from being able to change things and the pendulum is gradually going to move opinion.

It's definitely been more of a problem on the Labour side to deal with, I don't think bollocks come into it with a guy who has constantly been on the outside of public opinion and taken risky positions on many subjects.
 
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