View: https://youtu.be/DoP-14BvZRQ
So yeah, the CPU opponents in Street Fighter 6 are insanely hard, evidently. So much so that legends in the FGC are getting their asses handed to them.
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Even famed Street Fighter player Daigo is having difficulty with SF6’s level 8 CPU.
- Thread starter Orange Piccolo
- Start date
View: https://youtu.be/DoP-14BvZRQ
So yeah, the CPU opponents in Street Fighter 6 are insanely hard, evidently. So much so that legends in the FGC are getting their asses handed to them.
I mean except for in strategy games AI in videogames only don't beat every human because developers don't want to. They have instant reaction time, they can execute every combo they want when they want and punish you every single time there is a single frame to punish you. That's not hard to code. It's like in FPS games, the AI only misses shots because it's programed to do so.
It can and does read your inputs and executes the optimal response based on distance. It can single hit confirm anything. Anyone trying to play a legitimate match rather than exploiting holes in the AI will have some trouble regardless of skill.
edit: also what Mukrab said. There was nothing stopping devs before from making a CPU opponent behave this way other than regard for the player's feelings.
edit: also what Mukrab said. There was nothing stopping devs before from making a CPU opponent behave this way other than regard for the player's feelings.
Sure but it still has learnable, exploitable patterns. And what's changed now to make them decide to make one this hard if it's still the same old kind of coding?
No, but the wifi buttplug moment already happened ages ago with SNK's bosses.
I remember the arcade version of Mortal Kombat II would do the same thing. As soon as you jumped an inch off the ground, Liu Kang would insta-jump and fireball you back to the ground. Cheating A.I. doesn't feel like a real match vs. a person at all.
The upside to this brutally unfair AI is that you might be able to learn some useful stuff through observation and imitation.
It doesn't have to be that complex. It doesn't need to be smarter than a human in those types of games when their reaction time is essentially zero. They don't need to know tactics really. You touched the pixel where it can hit you for a single frame? That's all it needs to hit you with the biggest combo possible from that opening. The AI could probably easily do only perfects if the devs wanted to. They can block everything and they could program it just to punish you after a block.
Its easy to make an Ai play perfect, but what people don't realize is that these level 8 cpus are also predicting what you'll do next and acting pre-emptively to counter it.
Add in the ability for it to make mistakes and suddenly it feels like you're fighting against something that is just difficult rather than something that is cheating you.
Add in the ability for it to make mistakes and suddenly it feels like you're fighting against something that is just difficult rather than something that is cheating you.
Yeah you can toggle that on or off. I think it's only in local play, though.
I don't think so, its still pretty exploitable and doesn't learn.
View: https://twitter.com/washyourhands__/status/1651411389662081025?t=1BRUOmfxyGO7h4mtARviHw&s=19
MVG I believe did a video a while back showing how one of the MK games had outright cheats programmed into it after a certain point on the arcade ladder mode thing to make it unbelievably hard. When I say outright cheats I'm talking about actually doing stuff that's impossible and clipping through your character attacks to counter yours and shit.
Still back then it was probably more of a "make them put more money in" reason for it. It'll be interesting to see if/how long it takes for pros to be just blitzing these cpu fights.
Those patterns are programmed in. The bots are programmed to be dumb, not to be smart. This difficulty level simply has less dumbing down.
Every time I think abut this subject, I'm reminded of this video:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laUAgEUunsI
www.youtube.com
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laUAgEUunsI
How the CPU cheated you in Street Fighter 2
Everyone who has played Street Fighter 2 will have experienced at least one of the things featured in this video. Some of the stuff, like the CPU becoming in...
www.youtube.com
Yeah that's how coin op fighting games work since the 90s
They need to adopt Shadow Lab to actually teach players rather than frustrate them
They need to adopt Shadow Lab to actually teach players rather than frustrate them
Every time I think abut this subject, I'm reminded of this video:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laUAgEUunsI
How the CPU cheated you in Street Fighter 2
Everyone who has played Street Fighter 2 will have experienced at least one of the things featured in this video. Some of the stuff, like the CPU becoming in...
Came here to post that. Desk does some great work!
He's very good but this clearly isn't him trying his hardest to win. I think he's just feeling out what CPU can do more than trying to come up with a winning strategy.
Watching Max's video it does give you a good look on some decent combo's that you can pull off.
It's easy to make AI that beats people at video games, they literally have access to the exact state of the game on a per frame basis. It's actually much more difficult to make something that behaves like a human and can lose fairly than it is to make something that will murder you.
The thing is it's not bullshit. The CPU in SF6 is using very viable strategies and behaving surprisingly like an actual high level player.
It's still very easy to exploit.
It's just has good punishes. It will anti air most jumps, DI a DI, jump over fireballs. Mistakes are punishing since it has good combos.
But it can't handle max range sweep.
Absolutely.
We intentionally dial back the AI on our enemies in our game, because it's just not fun to play against overly smart AI. It's a balancing act, to be sure, but I also think that's the beauty of difficulty levels. It gives us a lot of room to explore different AI configurations for enemies, and give players options. I've been enjoying the uptick in Accessibility options in games these days, and one of my favorites is how granular some games are being in regards to letting players customize their difficulty experience.
I had a blast in Control, for example, modifying my damage and Focus levels, how strong enemies are, etc, and I walked away from that game with a super positive impression of it. In contrast, I love Kena: Bridge of Spirits (had to get that out there first LOL), but the final "gauntlet" at the end really soured what was, by and large, and fucking excellent experience and game. If there were a few Accessibility options that allowed me to tweak a few parameters, I don't think I'd have been so angry by the time I finally beat the final boss. I didn't have that From Software like, "Fuck yeah, I conquered that mountain!" Instead, I was like, "Thank fuck that's over! Great game, but I do not want to play that section ever again." Although, to be fair, there are some bosses in From's games that fill me with that anger too lol
Point is, enemy AI/Challenge is a fine line to walk, and it really wouldn't be terribly hard for devs to code in more realistic and challenging AI. The problem is, it's usually just not very fun for the vast majority of gamers (there will always be some that enjoy a higher challenge, of course).
Seeing Daigo struggle in this video was really charming and entertaining. I don't think I've ever seen him that animated in the few older clips of his I've seen. He was clearly having a good time. The "This guy is cheating!" cracked me up so much. I think almost every gamer has uttered that at least once lol
I watched Max's video with him fighting level 8 Ryu and he made some interesting points. The way the CPU plays doesn't directly help you become a better player against humans because things like zoning and footsies just don't work against it. It helps you by showing you what's possible, you can learn what combos work and how to string all of that together.
This doesn't show good AI.
It does show how dope the mechanics of this game are when the AI, who has perfect execution and access to ridiculous algorithms for decision making, is constantly showing us different variations of combos. It shoes us the decision making that players will have access to will make for an amazingly entertaining and deep game that has so many different permutations of choice, that even an AI playing optimally is always making different choices.
It does show how dope the mechanics of this game are when the AI, who has perfect execution and access to ridiculous algorithms for decision making, is constantly showing us different variations of combos. It shoes us the decision making that players will have access to will make for an amazingly entertaining and deep game that has so many different permutations of choice, that even an AI playing optimally is always making different choices.
WHen i try to parry, CPU throw me.
But yeah, CPU also kinda weak to neutral jump then 2HK
Cpu do be cooking some delicious looking combos. Definitely stealing that
But yeah, CPU also kinda weak to neutral jump then 2HK
Cpu do be cooking some delicious looking combos. Definitely stealing that
Top 8 in evo last year (he's not competing in evo jp this year though, too busy streaming elden ring and fans meetup)
Keep in mind this is talking about the highest level CPU difficulty. It should scale much better with lower settings.
You got used to it, Round 2 Seth is a input reading command grabbing menace and the super bosses are a struggle to get to and handle the fight.
