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Every day about 600 illegal immigrants enter Greece.

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Mato

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
674
User Banned (Permanent): Xenophobia, Islamophobia.
These are predominantly young Muslim men arriving mostly from Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Algeria and many other Arabic and northern African nations. They are barred from leaving Greece towards other European nations so they are staying here. Greece is a country of about 10.5, million people with an aging, decreasing population. By Greek standards, 600-700 people is one new Muslim village daily. It's also about 250k people per year, equal to one Greek city of considerable size. At this rate it's very likely that in less than 20 years Greece, which is a Christian orthodox European nation, could be a Muslim majority country.

Next to the small Greek town that I live in there is an immigrant hospitality center. In the last few years the crime rates have skyrocketed. The place that I grew up is now pretty much a Wild West where anything goes, police presence in non-existent or even worse, useless. Last week the town residents got together to discuss and agreed to fund and hire a private security firm to police the town streets because the Greek state can't be bothered. It's obvious that the Greek elite is very fond of what is happening, hoping that this will help solve Greece's ageing problem and increase the population/consumer base while providing below poverty-line worker salaries.

I've never voted for the right, I am an atheist and a vegan. I try to show compassion for the hardships of other people. But is it wrong to not wish to live in a Muslim nation in many of which I would imprisoned or stoned for being gay?
 

P-MAC

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,371
I've never voted for the right, I am an atheist and a vegan. I try to show compassion for the hardships of other people. But is it wrong to not wish to live in a Muslim nation in many of which I would imprisoned or stoned for being gay?
But this is not the case in the vast majority of Muslim countries. For it to be a given isn’t the case anywhere. It’s a poor people mob rule problem not a Muslim problem.
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,656
It's really dumb to attribute Muslims to skyrocketing crime. This is not a religious problem, its a poverty problem, mr "compassionate" atheist.
 

Ahhthe90s

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,193
OP what route are the immigrants taking? I thought Turkey closed it's borders since receiving money from Europe? Erdogan gave the EU an ultimatum, either pay up or he'll open borders.
 

P-MAC

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,371
Also, don’t forget, this is how history has always been. People move around, demographics change. Greece is arguably one of the places that has happened the most. It doesn’t belong to you.
 

daxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,940
EU border states having to process the majority of asylum seekers and irregular immigrants is a really bad policy by the EU (the result of the country of entry principle). I continue to be saddened that little has changed over recent years. In order to facilitate good conditions for these migrants and as a matter of fairness to the EU’s periphery states, there should be some degree of redistribution. The root cause of the criminality in these types of areas is often simply because people aren’t able to be processed and accommodated quickly enough, unfortunately. These countries are strained for resources compared to Western Europe as it is. In addition to that, integration courses are incredibly important to facilitate the adoption and recognition of different social and cultural values.
 
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Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,233
I think your OP could have been written better as to not sound so islamophobic/xenophobic but I can understand where your coming from. Keep in mind that this forum is pretty US centric and it may be hard from that point of view to properly see how the refugee crisis affect a city or a country.

At the end of the day it’s problem that can only be solved by each governments and the EU. There’s so many people living in tents in the streets all over Europe and it’s a bit sad to see nothing really is happening to solve that problem. Because, it’s not a good situation for either side, most refugee would prefer to not live on the street and get by by begging and stuff.
 

Dealan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14
Worth mentioning for non-greek era users that the current goverment is very anti-refugee/immigrant and has already enacted a lot of anti-refugee policies. Removing their ability to get access to healthcare, denying asylum requests without interview, raiding occupied buildings that house refugees in order to move them back to detention camps with awful conditions (and arresting journalists who were recording that), goverment mps labeling refugees as invaders, etc.
 

Tremorah

Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,205
Your country is broke because 2008 american housing bubble and austerity that followed is because capitalism works like that, banks get paid, people get the shaft
 

Betty

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,686
But this is not the case in the vast majority of Muslim countries. For it to be a given isn’t the case anywhere. It’s a poor people mob rule problem not a Muslim problem.
Are you joking?

Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Lebanon, Qatar, etc all these places punish homosexual behaviour with prison or death.

Even in countries where it's not outlawed like Egypt or Turkey, the people's view on homosexuality is medieval.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,385
Worth mentioning for non-greek era users that the current goverment is very anti-refugee/immigrant and has already enacted a lot of anti-refugee policies. Removing their ability to get access to healthcare, denying asylum requests without interview, raiding occupied buildings that house refugees in order to move them back to detention camps with awful conditions (and arresting journalists who were recording that), goverment mps labeling refugees as invaders, etc.
That's horrible. Makes this OP even worse.
 

Aureon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,244
There's one true fight, OP.
The oppressed and the oppressors. The capitalists and the working class.
Do not hate on your fellow oppressed.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,088
Wisconsin
If you actually tried talking to them you'd realize very quickly that basically everything you wrote here is racist trash based on false stereotypes
 

TatteredHat

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,275
I wish there was a proper EU-wide policy to handle immigration, rather than pushing all the responsibility onto the border states.
 

impingu1984

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,707
UK
If Greece has a aging population a influx of younger immigrants is probably good for the Greek economy in the long run...

I'm not going to hammer you OP cos you clearly posted for some outside perspective.

These people could become a valuable part of Greek society in time and given a chance.

Have some compassion, Greece maybe in economic hell but that's still better than what some of these will have left behind.

Don't shun them, welcome them.

The problem is poverty not race or ethnicity.

Help these people out of poverty. You can help them feel welcome and settle, feel safer.

Just have some compassion.

The EU should try to share the burden across all states equally that I do agree with tho. Not just the boarder states
 

P-MAC

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,371
Are you joking?

Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Lebanon, Qatar, etc all these places punish homosexual behaviour with prison or death.

Even in countries where it's not outlawed like Egypt or Turkey, the people's view on homosexuality is medieval.
Yes I am not defending homophobia on any level, it’s disgusting. Simply saying it’s not the case in the vast majority of Muslim countries and not something that necessarily comes with a Muslim majority country, which you just proved right as there are 50 in the world. I admit I was wrong on the tribal/poor area part looking at that list though
 

daxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,940
If Greece has a aging population a influx of younger immigrants is probably good for the Greek economy in the long run...

I'm not going to hammer you OP cos you clearly posted for some outside perspective.

These people could become a valuable part of Greek society in time and given a chance.

Have some compassion, Greece maybe in economic hell but that's still better than what some of these will have left behind.

Don't shun them, welcome them.

The problem is poverty not race or ethnicity.

Help these people out of poverty. You can help them feel welcome and settle, feel safer.

Just have some compassion.
I get what you’re saying, but compassion alone isn’t gonna help these people get a roof over their head or give them a work permit. This is primarily a problem of legislative infrastructure and resources. The EU and local government need to be held accountable and called to action.
 

Betty

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,686
Yes I am not defending homophobia on any level, it’s disgusting. Simply saying it’s not the case in the vast majority of Muslim countries and not something that necessarily comes with a Muslim majority country, which you just proved right as there are 50 in the world.
Fine let's list a few more

Afghanistan - punishable by death
Oman - jail up to 3 years
Yemen - jail or death
Sudan - death
Algeria - illegal
Malaysia - jail
Morocco - illegal

I mean I could keep looking up the other countries which are mostly North Africa or Middle Eastern in location but I get a feeling the results are going to be the same.
 

Jibreel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
87
I think its worth keeping in mind that what Greece is experiencing is just a drop in a bucket compared to what Jordan (1.5 million), Lebanon (3 million) and Turkey (5 million) are dealing with due to the refugee crisis. If Greece and other European countries want to cut the flow of illegal immigrants they should consider providing additional aid to these countries because spending a euro there goes a lot further than it does at home and secondarily rethink their foreign policies decisions which directly contribute to these crises that generate refugees (Iraq, Libya, Syria).
 

Paquete_PT

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,685
Op, do you have any official data to back-up your claim that muslim immigration is directly responsibly for the rise in crimes and that most of those crimes are being made by these muslims?
Have you considered where these people are running from and that they share the same fears that you do?
Are you considering that your thoughts towards them and their differences stem from the same misconceptions that you yourself may be a victim of (as in the way you speak of muslims in your post could be easily re-worded to fit the narrative of a homophobic?). Have you considered that those people don’t want to throw rocks at gays?
The entry of younger men and women could be important for the laboral activities of aging societies.
Maybe reflect on the feelings you’re having and some parallelism between their situation and yours (you as a gay in a society that I assume wasn’t always ready to take you in and they as muslims running away from oppressive societies)
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,662
OP is a fucking idiot for believing that as soon as a country becomes Muslim majority that they all vouch immediately for hardcore Sharia that you hear of from places like Saudi Arabia.

Get a fucking grip, pal.
 

Issun

Member
Nov 14, 2017
280
User Banned (5 Days): Inappropriate Fearmongering Over Immigration
The 'get over it' comments don't help, maybe you don't realize the European people will vote Hitler's ghost back into power if this continues. Something has to be done to manage these influxes better.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,018
I understand what you're saying OP. I don't agree with you but i do think there will be some unpopular decisions that will have to be made. Especially considering other crisis like climate change will happen in the future.
 

Malleymal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,001
I am in charge of a school that sends students to Greece to work on Migrant Population health in Greece. It is a serious issue and these people need genuine help.
 

mnz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,286
It's really ridiculous how bad the collaboration on this issue is within the EU. Biggest thing they are doing is building up Frontex, because the member states can abrely agree on anything regarding this issue.

But this is not the case in the vast majority of Muslim countries. For it to be a given isn’t the case anywhere. It’s a poor people mob rule problem not a Muslim problem.
I'm sorry, but this is not true. To be gay means long prison or even death sentence in almost every muslim majority country.
That the reasons for this aren't just the religion is another topic, but pretending it's not a problem to be openly gay is a lie.

 
Oct 26, 2017
11,225
I went to my city's Holiday festival (Surrey, Canada) today, and a lot of the volunteers, sellers, etc were not white. A lot of my neighbors aren't white. Growing up, a lot of my classmates weren't white. Immigrants do adapt to other cultures, but you cannot force them to, they just adapt normally. It isn't because they're the problem, there's just not a solid support base for immigrants. You also have to accept it's not a 100% "convert to our country's lifestyle" but that they will bring over their culture of food, music, arts, fashion, socialization, etc. Poverty causes conflict. You shouldn't actually worry about immigrants a whole lot (cause they're not just here to cause crime), you should be worried about a country that allows immigrants (even illegal) to not adapt well enough.
 

Keikaku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,460
Your country is broke because 2008 american housing bubble and austerity that followed is because capitalism works like that, banks get paid, people get the shaft
2008 just broke the bubble, Greece's problems are because of joining the Euro with trickery.

Greece should've been let to default and banks suffer the consequences.
 

plagiarize

To its ports I have been
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
10,346
Cape Cod, MA
Think for a moment what you might do in a country that persecuted gay people. Might you not flee to another country?

What number of the immigrants coming into your country do you think might be gay?

They are not governments. They are not laws. They are people. Some will be evangelical. Some will be atheist. Some will be straight. Some will be gay.
 

impingu1984

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,707
UK
I get what you’re saying, but compassion alone isn’t gonna help these people get a roof over their head or give them a work permit. This is primarily a problem of legislative infrastructure and resources. The EU and local government need to be held accountable and called to action.
The EU needs to share the burden equally across all states not just the boarder states absolutely...

When I travel to France from the UK it has broken my heart in Calais seeing the "jungle" .. wtf has led to that far from the boarder... smh
 

NoName999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,273
The 'get over it' comments don't help, maybe you don't realize the European people will vote Hitler's ghost back into power if this continues. Something has to be done to manage these influxes better.
Well the West could stop fucking the region over for staters. But for some reason, that idea is not even entertained.
 
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