Everything You Need to Know about Dreams.

Mailbox · Dec 14, 2018

8byte said:
.

It's nice to know you're talking out your butt and don't know a thing about public relations and marketing.

Seriously, your response to people disappointed and irritated of waiting to a wall of silence and carrots on sticks is "you are owed nothing so stop complaining"

As a consumer, we have every right to complain when we dislike how things are handled when a product is in pre and post launch. You have no place telling people how they should feel on this.

Catalix · Dec 14, 2018

That's been the frustrating pattern the past 2 years. Directly promise the beta for that year, be vague and non communicative about it for several months, then suddenly announce a delay "at the last minute" in December.

The first beta delay was announced on Dec 16th 2016. We're approaching the 2 year anniversary: https://www.mediamolecule.com/blog/article/an_update_on_our_dreams_beta

Same thing happened in 2017.

Look, we all get it. This ridiculously ambitious project is an unpredictable nightmare to develop and QA for. It's just the repeated broken promises and flighty communication that I find baffling.

... having said that, I still think it's coming Later This Year lol

burgervan · Dec 14, 2018

8byte said:
I mean, they didn't hurt anyone. They're a group of people working on a game that they're passionate about, and things aren't going as planned. If you think they're on their holiday break rubbing their fingers together and grinning about all the people they've "tricked", you're sorely mistaken.

Literally nobody here has even implied that. Not sure where you got that idea from.

8byte said:
The outrage, anger, or disappointment is just a tad too ridiculous. I would understand the sentiment if this were a kickstarter game, and you'd put in a hundred bucks or something...but you've literally only invested interest and time. It's not that serious.

The Dreams community (from what I've seen on Reddit, Youtube, Discord and here) has actually been extremely positive and patient. The only thing people are frustrated by is Mm's lack of communication. Something they can provide in a tweet. It's not a lot to ask.

Ralph · Dec 14, 2018

Catalix said:
That's been the frustrating pattern the past 2 years. Directly promise the beta for that year, be vague and non communicative about it for several months, then suddenly announce a delay "at the last minute" in December.

The first beta delay was announced on Dec 16th 2016. We're approaching the 2 year anniversary: https://www.mediamolecule.com/blog/article/an_update_on_our_dreams_beta

Same thing happened in 2017.

Look, we all get it. This ridiculously ambitious project is an unpredictable nightmare to develop and QA for. It's just the repeated broken promises and flighty communication that I find baffling.

... having said that, I still think it's coming Later This Year lol

I think the 2016 delay was good, they re-worked the game in a major way, making it not reliant on an always online system.
That said, they would have decided much earlier in the year to do the re-work, yet they still left it until the last second to tell us "oh wait, it's not coming this year".

Then they went radio silent until TGA 2017, announced it as a 2018 title.
So when they said that, I was expecting a beta maybe Q2, Q3 latest, with a Q4 release..

Might be stupid, but I'm still hopeful it'll come this year too, but I'll have lost a lot of respect if they announce a delay next week.

Ichi · Dec 14, 2018

Print_Dog · Dec 14, 2018

Dead Prince said:
hes not going to be back. he just wanted to reply to this thread but since i made this post he might reply again

Nah I'm at work. Just saw the notifications. My opinion hasn't changed, though. I know we are all anticipating the beta, but it's a test. Why conduct a test before you're ready? There are way more reasons that this game could perform poorly than your typical multiplayer shooter. That should be taken into consideration when critiquing Mm on the beta's date. I probably did sound like a jerk and I apologize. Era is starting to feel different. No reason to take that out on that first guy.

Catalix · Dec 14, 2018

Ralph said:
I think the 2016 delay was good, they re-worked the game in a major way, making it not reliant on an always online system.
That said, they would have decided much earlier in the year to do the re-work, yet they still left it until the last second to tell us "oh wait, it's not coming this year".

Then they went radio silent until TGA 2017, announced it as a 2018 title.
So when they said that, I was expecting a beta maybe Q2, Q3 latest, with a Q4 release..

Might be stupid, but I'm still hopeful it'll come this year too, but I'll have lost a lot of respect if they announce a delay next week.

It honestly seems like the delays have been GREATLY beneficial to the contents of the project itself. They've used the time and resources well.

But yeah the wonky meta surrounding it, not so much.

s y · Dec 14, 2018

8byte said:
You aren't owed communication. You aren't a part of the team. You are a consumer. You either buy the product, or you don't.

Your voice matters one of two ways. You purchase it, and then you have input and investment, or you don't purchase it. You vote with your wallet. Outside of that, you are literally owed absolutely nothing. The desire for information and communication is everywhere, but they don't have an obligation to keep you informed, particularly when there are third parties (publishers, partners, investors) who can stifle that kind of communication (or that communication can hurt those relationships / investments).

8byte · Dec 14, 2018

Sure are a lot of folks bothered by the idea that they aren't owed communication from a Company they aren't financially invested in...

I'm not going to take the time to quote your posts, I'm just going to let you know that you're wrong. You're not owed respect, information, or anything else. You decide what you invest in financially, and until you buy something, you aren't owed anything. They haven't disrespected you, they've just not give you what you feel you're entitled to, for whatever reason.

goonergaz · Dec 14, 2018

8byte said:
Sure are a lot of folks bothered by the idea that they aren't owed communication from a Company they aren't financially invested in...

I'm not going to take the time to quote your posts, I'm just going to let you know that you're wrong. You're not owed respect, information, or anything else. You decide what you invest in financially, and until you buy something, you aren't owed anything. They haven't disrespected you, they've just not give you what you feel you're entitled to, for whatever reason.

Owed is such a strong word though. Also, treating potential customers 'badly' is not a great move for a company...especially in this day and age (see Bethesda and how they handled the bag incident). I mean, I know that was post purchased - but still, the point stands that you should be treating potential customers well because people who were on the fence regarding F76/Bethesda games will have a more negative view of the company moving forward, they now have to regain that trust - even from those who you consider are not owed it.

burgervan · Dec 14, 2018

8byte said:
Sure are a lot of folks bothered by the idea that they aren't owed communication from a Company they aren't financially invested in...

I'm not going to take the time to quote your posts, I'm just going to let you know that you're wrong. You're not owed respect, information, or anything else. You decide what you invest in financially, and until you buy something, you aren't owed anything. They haven't disrespected you, they've just not give you what you feel you're entitled to, for whatever reason.

So if you order a meal at a restaurant and the waiter keeps saying over and over again that it'll be out in 5 minutes, but two hours pass and you have yet to receive your food. Then the waiter comes out and tells you the restaurant is closing for the night and you have to leave. By your logic, you're not allowed to be frustrated or annoyed because you didn't pay. All you invested was time.

What if you went back to the restaurant thinking, "that'll never happen twice!" and then it happens AGAIN. Yeah, I'm sure you'd just stroll out of there like, "well I guess they don't owe me anything so I can't be mad."

Stinkinmushroom · Dec 14, 2018

burgervan said:
So if you order a meal at a restaurant and the waiter keeps saying over and over again that it'll be out in 5 minutes, but two hours pass and you have yet to receive your food. Then the waiter comes out and tells you the restaurant is closing for the night and you have to leave. By your logic, you're not allowed to be frustrated or annoyed because you didn't pay. All you invested was time.

What if you went back to the restaurant thinking, "that'll never happen twice!" and then it happens AGAIN. Yeah, I'm sure you'd just stroll out of there like, "well I guess they don't owe me anything so I can't be mad."

Not at all the same thing lmao.

burgervan · Dec 14, 2018

Stinkinmushroom said:
Not at all the same thing lmao.

I'm just trying to get at the feeling of frustration more then make a direct comparison. The idea that you can't be frustrated unless you're financially invested is ridiculous.

Print_Dog · Dec 14, 2018

8byte said:
Sure are a lot of folks bothered by the idea that they aren't owed communication from a Company they aren't financially invested in...

I'm not going to take the time to quote your posts, I'm just going to let you know that you're wrong. You're not owed respect, information, or anything else. You decide what you invest in financially, and until you buy something, you aren't owed anything. They haven't disrespected you, they've just not give you what you feel you're entitled to, for whatever reason.

This is pretty much they way I see it. I understand that people are ready, but dang.

burgervan said:
So if you order a meal at a restaurant and the waiter keeps saying over and over again that it'll be out in 5 minutes, but two hours pass and you have yet to receive your food. Then the waiter comes out and tells you the restaurant is closing for the night and you have to leave. By your logic, you're not allowed to be frustrated or annoyed because you didn't pay. All you invested was time.

What if you went back to the restaurant thinking, "that'll never happen twice!" and then it happens AGAIN. Yeah, I'm sure you'd just stroll out of there like, "well I guess they don't owe me anything so I can't be mad."

What if they brought you the burger, but it was pink inside or didn't have something you expected on it? You would raise hell and want your money back or a new burger. Mm are just trying not to disappoint. A bad beta is negative press. A late beta, is far less of a bad look. I think so anyway.

Edit: somehow I turned your restaurant into a burger joint lol. But you get my drift.

Ralph · Dec 14, 2018

Print_Dog said:
What if they brought you the burger, but it was pink inside or didn't have something you expected on it? You would raise hell and want your money back or a new burger. Mm are just trying not to disappoint. A bad beta is negative press. A late beta, is far less of a bad look. I think so anyway.

Edit: somehow I turned your restaurant into a burger joint lol. But you get my drift.

Again. I'm not concerned about the lateness, if it needs more time, it needs more time, I do believe all the delays so far have been extremely beneficial. What I'm annoyed about is the lack of communication, which they do owe to their fans, regardless of what that other guy says, or whatever metaphors anyone wants to use.

burgervan · Dec 14, 2018

Print_Dog said:
This is pretty much they way I see it. I understand that people are ready, but dang.

What if they brought you the burger, but it was pink inside or didn't have something you expected on it? You would raise hell and want your money back or a new burger. Mm are just trying not to disappoint. A bad beta is negative press. A late beta, is far less of a bad look. I think so anyway.

Nobody here is asking for the beta before it's ready. As has been stated here many times, people are frustrated with not knowing one way or the other if it's happening. At this point I would welcome an official delay over complete silence.

Print_Dog · Dec 14, 2018

burgervan said:
Nobody here is asking for the beta before it's ready. As has been stated here many times, people are frustrated with not knowing one way or the other if it's happening. At this point I would welcome an official delay over complete silence.

But just last week or maybe this week, I can't remember, there was a statement saying it's still coming this year. Wasn't there?

False Witness · Dec 14, 2018

I'm entitled to a "Happy Friday!" tweet from Media Molecule. It is owed to me.

Gerwant · Dec 14, 2018

Does MM have another side project going on right now, or is it all hands on deck for Dreams?

s y · Dec 14, 2018

Gerwant said:
Does MM have another side project going on right now, or is it all hands on deck for Dreams?

Decorating their office Christmas tree.

I for one, am fucking owed an update on the tree AND any and all birthday cakes.

burgervan · Dec 14, 2018

Print_Dog said:
But just last week or maybe this week, I can't remember, there was a statement saying it's still coming this year. Wasn't there?

They said the same thing in December 2016. There's a reason people are a little suspicious when they're still giving the canned "it's coming later this year" response and there's only three weeks left in the year. One of which is Christmas week. Vagueness doesn't instill confidence this late in the game.

Optional Objectives · Dec 14, 2018

Hey, you know who regularly responds to questions asked by people in this thread, and we have tweets and all kinds of things to show for it? MM.

I want Dreams in my hands as much as a lot of people (though I can't say I have the level of investments of some folks in this thread), but c'mon. Communication isn't about what's owed to a consumer, and it's not about having a financial stake. It's doing a lot of what MM has been doing - opening channels and interacting with people. Yeah, MM doesn't give out the best information about timelines. On the other hand, we've seen tons of the development of this project on camera and on stage. All that stuff is what makes me interested and excited, not an endless debate about deadlines.

s y · Dec 14, 2018

Dreams beta 2016 was "coming later this year" until December 16th, 2016.

burgervan · Dec 14, 2018

Optional Objectives said:
Hey, you know who regularly responds to questions asked by people in this thread, and we have tweets and all kinds of things to show for it? MM.

I want Dreams in my hands as much as a lot of people (though I can't say I have the level of investments of some folks in this thread), but c'mon. Communication isn't about what's owed to a consumer, and it's not about having a financial stake. It's doing a lot of what MM has been doing - opening channels and interacting with people. Yeah, MM doesn't give out the best information about timelines. On the other hand, we've seen tons of the development of this project on camera and on stage. All that stuff is what makes me interested and excited, not an endless debate about deadlines.

Other than this one annoying communication issue, I totally agree. They've been great. I certainly don't want to take away from that.

Print_Dog · Dec 14, 2018

s y said:
Dreams beta 2016 was "coming later this year" until December 16th, 2016.

LMAO see we still have a couple days before the hammer hits the nail

eyeball_kid · Dec 14, 2018

Optional Objectives said:
Hey, you know who regularly responds to questions asked by people in this thread, and we have tweets and all kinds of things to show for it? MM.

I want Dreams in my hands as much as a lot of people (though I can't say I have the level of investments of some folks in this thread), but c'mon. Communication isn't about what's owed to a consumer, and it's not about having a financial stake. It's doing a lot of what MM has been doing - opening channels and interacting with people. Yeah, MM doesn't give out the best information about timelines. On the other hand, we've seen tons of the development of this project on camera and on stage. All that stuff is what makes me interested and excited, not an endless debate about deadlines.

There are different forms of communication. The team has been very open about the development process, more than the usual AAA studio.

What the team has lacked is proper marketing and setting of expectations. I think some of those who have been following the game for a few years -- and especially those who were baited by the false beta in 2016 -- are simply exhausted at this point by Mm's lack of clear communication about release dates, beta dates, and in general more concrete information one would expect by now. They don't owe us anything of course, but they've put people interested in the game through a bit of an emotional rollercoaster that wasn't necessary, simply because they decided to be vague for an entire year. They should not have announced a beta if they weren't a couple months away from launching it.

Ichi · Dec 14, 2018

so, are we gonna take bets on whether the beta will still drop in 2018? lol.

Blackleg-sanji1 · Dec 14, 2018

s y said:
Dreams beta 2016 was "coming later this year" until December 16th, 2016.

See that's the shit I'm talking about lol. Clearly tho it's fine

We all supposed to sit back and shill apparently not question them not do anything. You look for a game this gen that had a beta announced and went about it so weirdly

NinjaTrouiLLe · Dec 14, 2018

Yeah we look like sick people scared to live a trauma again ;).

8bytes is blunt but right in some way. Wallet is the only thing being of interest in this. And we all know we'll jump on the game once it's out. Mm know that.

BUT you're wrong to a large extend. the very fact they know this can be considered a kickstarter in a way. We havent invested the money, but it's already a given. That's the major difference between a simple consumer and a community if loyal followers who will promote the game for you: you owe them a bit more than "the game".

Hard to believe we still have to point that difference here in this thread.

Stinkinmushroom · Dec 14, 2018

- We deserve an update!
- They answered yesterday its still coming in 2018
- Thats too vague!

Ralph · Dec 14, 2018

Stinkinmushroom said:
- We deserve an update!
- They answered yesterday its still coming in 2018
- Thats too vague!

As someone said above, "it's coming later this year" was the same canned line they used in 2016, up until December 16th.
People are right to be suspicious of the same canned line over and over again.

Blackleg-sanji1 · Dec 14, 2018

I just wanna know how to get into the darn beta also. is it open/closed? Sign ups? Newsletter? How long is it for? What's included what's not(they've said some things on this here and there) Or is that being entitled and asking too much too.

Electro · Dec 14, 2018

Blackleg-sanji1 said:
I just wanna know how to get into the darn beta also. is it open/closed? Sign ups? Newsletter? How long is it for? What's included what's not(they've said some things on this here and there) Or is that being entitled and asking too much too.

Yeah, I believe the only concrete info about the beta was that there will be no VR support.

s y · Dec 14, 2018

Blackleg-sanji1 said:
I just wanna know how to get into the darn beta also. is it open/closed? Sign ups? Newsletter? How long is it for? What's included what's not(they've said some things on this here and there) Or is that being entitled and asking too much too.

They don't owe you beta sign up instructions.

Needy fans smh

False Witness · Dec 14, 2018

Next week or bust, right?

Irish · Dec 14, 2018

Yeah, I'm worried that I won't be subscribed to the right social media accounts or participate on the right forums to gain access to the beta. I just want a little more communication.

Ralph · Dec 14, 2018

Irish said:
Yeah, I'm worried that I won't be subscribed to the right social media accounts or participate on the right forums to gain access to the beta. I just want a little more communication.

I'd definitely make sure you're subscribed to the newsletter, beyond that there's nothing else you can do really, other than hope it's open.

EssBeeVee · Dec 14, 2018

False Witness said:
Next week or bust, right?

its the last week before christmas/new year holiday. lets remember Ralph.

Blackleg-sanji1 · Dec 14, 2018

False Witness said:
Next week or bust, right?

Pretty much

LifeLine · Dec 14, 2018

If I don't make it before the beta comes out. Keep me in your dreams and make me look good.

QuiteSomething · Dec 14, 2018

That should do "Famous game developers making levels in Dreams". Bring Kojima, Cory, Neil and other 3rd party devs

Stinkinmushroom · Dec 14, 2018

I could see them bringing the beta out on Christmas day. The beta would be open for everyone and Playstation would market it as a Christmas gift.

Open the PSStore between the 24th and 31st, you get big 'Merry Christmas' pic and under it a download button and text. 'Enjoy Christmas with the Dreams beta untill the 31st of January!

Edit: honestly i'm kinda losing hope myself now lol.

LoudMouse · Dec 14, 2018

LoudMouse said:

No one interested in Dreams?

eyeball_kid · Dec 14, 2018

Stinkinmushroom said:
I could see them bringing the beta out on Christmas day. The beta would be open for everyone and Playstation would market it as a Christmas gift.

That would be terrible. I'll be away with family and have limited access to any news about signups. They did hint that it would be a staged beta so I feel pretty sure the first round will be limited. I'd be gutted if I missed the signup.

I said before that if the beta didn't happen by today then it's not happening, at least not before Xmas. If major bugs happen, they need to be around to fix them. Given the lag between bug reporting, amount of time to fix, QA, and rollout, there's just not much time left. The beta could drop between then and NYE, but I don't have a lot of confidence they'd do that.

Doby · Dec 14, 2018

If it's a staged beta I imagine the first wave will be users big in the LBP community. I'm part of the SCEE beta programme and there's been no word of upcoming betas, then again the programme has pretty much dried up as of late so I'm not sure we'd hear anything anyway. They don't seem to need us anymore :(

Joystick · Dec 14, 2018

A small snippet of more info on menu/HUD features:

Joystick · Dec 14, 2018

And as for the beta.... I'm still patiently waiting. Not losing my marbles like some :)

They're obviously busting their guts to get the beta out. Something which many people may not know is that they had a bout of Flu go through the office and knocked out a few people in the last couple of weeks, and currently there are a couple of others sick.

I see some people complain about it being released in this holiday period because they will be away etc. Personally I'm happy if it comes out in the coming weeks as that's the absolute best time for me.

Fingers crossed!

Blackleg-sanji1 · Dec 14, 2018

Meanwhile even the dreams discord is losing it lol

super.modulaire · Dec 15, 2018

Someone should make a thread with a poll. "Is the Dreams Beta still coming in 2018?"

OgTheEnigma · Dec 15, 2018

super.modulaire said:
Someone should make a thread with a poll. "Is the Dreams Beta still coming in 2018?"

Honestly, what purpose would that serve? Media Molecule can only answer that so we just need to be patient a little while longer. Even if they can't get the beta out this month, this situation is nothing like 2016. The Dreams software is a lot more feature complete and mature so I expect they're basically ready, except for one or two snags they're trying to figure out.

There's also been a bout of flu in the MM office during the past few weeks, and they're still not at full strength in terms of staff.

Everything You Need to Know about Dreams.

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account