Everything You Need to Know about Dreams.

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You do realise that Bjork and her producers have access to the best professional music software on the planet right? The music production capabilities of Dreams can't match FL Studio's base $80 package. The production software she uses is so far beyond what Dreams is capable of it's laughable to imagine she or anyone around her would even consider it. You might as well ask Stephen Spielberg to film his next summer blockbuster with an Iphone.

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that's wrong in so many levels, that i don't even know where to start, first of all if we are talking about bjork - human behavior tune it's mainly composed with live instruments, second of all the tune was released in 1993, software at that time was pretty primitive, also you needed additional hardware to even record a 8 track. Hardware tools dominated back then like synths, samplers, sequencers and tape/adat machines. So software wise Dreams is wayyyyy more advanced than what they had back then. It's not about tools, it's about a person that makes the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MICdN3-vKh8

Yes, she went to bigger studios eventually to record stuff she needed, but with the tools that Dreams has, you can make a tune at a similar level if you know what you are doing.

 

[MrKlaw]

Everyone had a chance to enter, and they'll try to get as many of those in as possible. They can't just have the beta be wide open though, their servers would probably melt. Plus it would be more feedback than a small team like could deal with. And the whole NDA thing.

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I'm hoping that Sony closed the entry when they had a number they were comfortable with - so they closed it earlier this week but everyone that signed up might get in.

 

[Dussck]

I'm hoping that Sony closed the entry when they had a number they were comfortable with - so they closed it earlier this week but everyone that signed up might get in.

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Most of the time it's one signup for multiple beta phases. So they add more players in stages, to monitor server load and such. So maybe you don't get in right now, but the next phase a month later.
I hope you are right, but I doubt everyone signing up gets a key.

I'm a little nervous, the fear of missing out (again) is big.

 

[eightg4]

10 am still nothing, I'am afraid not having this key again, I need it !!!! I invited people for this in 10 hours and tomorrow also brunch time with a bunch of friends to discover the game together

 

[eyeball_kid]

10 am still nothing, I'am afraid not having this key again, I need it !!!! I invited people for this in 10 hours and tomorrow also brunch time with a bunch of friends to discover the game together

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Sony's handling this round of beta submissions afaik, not Mm. It's 1:15am west coast USA time, so I wouldn't expect anything for at least another 7 hours.

 

[eightg4]

Sony's handling this round of beta submissions afaik, not Mm. It's 1:15am west coast USA time, so I wouldn't expect anything for at least another 7 hours.

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Grrrrrrr, so I took a day off for nothing is that what to mean ? :)

 

[MrKlaw]

Most of the time it's one signup for multiple beta phases. So they add more players in stages, to monitor server load and such. So maybe you don't get in right now, but the next phase a month later.
I hope you are right, but I doubt everyone signing up gets a key.

I'm a little nervous, the fear of missing out (again) is big.

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Yeah but its 10 days, and this feels less a server stress test, more a functional beta

 

[stryke]

when beta

 

[Calabi]

that's wrong in so many levels, that i don't even know where to start, first of all if we are talking about bjork - human behavior tune it's mainly composed with live instruments, second of all the tune was released in 1993, software at that time was pretty primitive, also you needed additional hardware to even record a 8 track. Hardware tools dominated back then like synths, samplers, sequencers and tape/adat machines. So software wise Dreams is wayyyyy more advanced than what they had back then. It's not about tools, it's about a person that makes the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MICdN3-vKh8

Yes, she went to bigger studios eventually to record stuff she needed, but with the tools that Dreams has, you can make a tune at a similar level if you know what you are doing.

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I think they meant more visuals wise though as well. Like Bjork has some great videos to go along with her music, and Bjork could probably do something really interesting both musically and visually a lot easier than she could otherwise.

You can hook events off of the music timeline and notes and beats for instance which no other software is capable of I'm pretty sure. I'm going to test that out soon.

 

[MrKlaw]

when beta

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If PST morning then I expect this afternoon's Dreams Stream chat to be full of 'where is my email!?' questions. Hopefully the Mm guys will be able to wade through that and get something good out.

 

[Winter-John]

that's wrong in so many levels, that i don't even know where to start, first of all if we are talking about bjork - human behavior tune it's mainly composed with live instruments, second of all the tune was released in 1993, software at that time was pretty primitive, also you needed additional hardware to even record a 8 track. Hardware tools dominated back then like synths, samplers, sequencers and tape/adat machines. So software wise Dreams is wayyyyy more advanced than what they had back then. It's not about tools, it's about a person that makes the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MICdN3-vKh8

Yes, she went to bigger studios eventually to record stuff she needed, but with the tools that Dreams has, you can make a tune at a similar level if you know what you are doing.

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It's not about what was used in the past, it's about what is available now. Dreams music software doesn't match the entry package of FL Studio. It may be possible to recreate the base song but what is the point? It's like asking someone to deliberately hamper themselves just to make a pale imitation of something they did better 20 odd years ago. It's laughable. Might as well ask Slash to swap his Gibson for a $20 Korean knock off and play Rocket Queen with no pick and one arm tied behind his back

 

[MrKlaw]

It's not about what was used in the past, it's about what is available now. Dreams music software doesn't match the entry package of FL Studio. It may be possible to recreate the base song but what is the point? It's like asking someone to deliberately hamper themselves just to make a pale imitation of something they did better 20 odd years ago. It's laughable. Might as well ask Slash to swap his Gibson for a $20 Korean knock off and play Rocket Queen with no pick and one arm tied behind his back

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regardless, the original point was more about the video - which should have been fairly clear with the specific example given. If it was just about music why would they have mentioned that specific track from that specific artist?

 

[whiskas_fanatic]

"You have one new email"
*opens in excitement*
It's something unrelated.
: (

 

[TooFriendly]

For the past few days I've just been concentrating on trying to make weird forms of life, and experimenting with different ways to make them move around, and appear to interact with each other.

For me, Dreams seems more like a hobby than a game. It's an amazing creative outlet in a medium that I haven't really been able to delve into before. The more I use it, and get my head around the controls and the systems, the more I love it. For anyone with an imagination, a desire to be creative and patience, this is going to be something that they can use for a long time.

Making games might be a bit of a stretch for most people, but i think it's a bit shortsighted to just think of Dreams as a game maker, it can also be used to make interactive art pieces, at many different levels of complexity, from simple doodling through to bonkers, multi-layered creations.

I just hope there isn't a big gap between this beta and the release of the full game.

 

[BoJack]

5 hours to go. I want to be a part of the beta Mm. Please don't let me down.

 

[BoJack]

Wait, did they send codes and I got nothing, again?

 

[LoudMouse]

For the past few days I've just been concentrating on trying to make weird forms of life, and experimenting with different ways to make them move around, and appear to interact with each other.

For me, Dreams seems more like a hobby than a game. It's an amazing creative outlet in a medium that I haven't really been able to delve into before. The more I use it, and get my head around the controls and the systems, the more I love it. For anyone with an imagination, a desire to be creative and patience, this is going to be something that they can use for a long time.

Making games might be a bit of a stretch for most people, but i think it's a bit shortsighted to just think of Dreams as a game maker, it can also be used to make interactive art pieces, at many different levels of complexity, from simple doodling through to bonkers, multi-layered creations.

I just hope there isn't a big gap between this beta and the release of the full game.

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I've got to be honest, I'm not enjoying the creative side of things. For me, it's like trying to thread a needle whilst leant against a mashing machine. Motion sensing needs to die.

 

[WhiteNovember]

Wait, did they send codes and I got nothing, again?

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Nah, I think we have to wait.

 

[Stinkinmushroom]

I've got to be honest, I'm not enjoying the creative side of things. For me, it's like trying to thread a needle whilst leant against a mashing machine. Motion sensing needs to die.

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Huh? No it doesnt what

 

[TooFriendly]

I've got to be honest, I'm not enjoying the creative side of things. For me, it's like trying to thread a needle whilst leant against a mashing machine. Motion sensing needs to die.

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Motion sensing? Do you mean using the move controllers?
For me they are pretty much rock steady (although confusing af for a day or 2). If the problem is jittery controls, I'm sure you've probably tried these things but just in case:

• Make sure the orbs on the move controllers are the brightest thing in the room (probably the most important thing
• Don't have reflective things behind you, or sunlight hitting things, or lights.
• Be around 2 metres from the camera (i have to bring in a different chair)
• Hold start on them to re-centre of course
• Whenever you work on a new part of a sculpt, hold the imps on either side of the sculpt and press both move buttons, which sets your imp scale (absolutely essential, and I didn't realise that at first)
• Try to have your ps camera above the tv looking down.

You've probably done all of those, but maybe other people haven't.

 

[pikachief]

I've got to be honest, I'm not enjoying the creative side of things. For me, it's like trying to thread a needle whilst leant against a mashing machine. Motion sensing needs to die.

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I hope this isn't my experience as I have shaky hands :(

 

[LoudMouse]

Huh? No it doesnt what

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I just don't enjoy creating with it. It's as simple as that. I can pretend or try to fool myself into believing I'll eventually get used to it but at the end of the day I just have to admit reality. I can't use these tools in any precise way and it's entirely down to motion control. I know for certain some people are getting along with it but it's not (currently) for me.

 

[LoudMouse]

I hope this isn't my experience as I have shaky hands :(

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I'm 60, so it goes with the territory. :)

 

[Stinkinmushroom]

I just don't enjoy creating with it. It's as simple as that. I can pretend or try to fool myself into believing I'll eventually get used to it but at the end of the day I just have to admit reality. I can't use these tools in any precise way and it's entirely down to motion control. I know for certain some people are getting along with it but it's not (currently) for me.

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I'm sorry to hear that, but i do believe that motion controls is the only way for modeling to work. I cant see this stuff being remotely possible with just the joysticks on a DS4. Some functions could work though, so maybe MM can implement more options

 

[TooFriendly]

I'm sorry to hear that, but i do believe that motion controls is the only way for modeling to work. I cant see this stuff being remotely possible with just the joysticks on a DS4. Some functions could work though, so maybe MM can implement more options

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It would require a lot more function keys. Holding another button would make the sticks move in the Y axis, or control pitch, roll and yaw. It would be like controlling a plane in ace combat I guess, but in slow motion and not moving forward. And it wouldn't leave many buttons left over for the other controls and shortcuts.

 

[Multiverse Moo]

Pretty sure you're just trolling this thread at this point, Winter-John

 

[LoudMouse]

I'm sorry to hear that, but i do believe that motion controls is the only way for modeling to work. I cant see this stuff being remotely possible with just the joysticks on a DS4. Some functions could work though, so maybe MM can implement more options

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It's upsetting to me to have to concede this. I can get by with more symmetrical shapes using the grid but even then I can only tolerate it for half an hour. I made my spiral staircase in three sittings, and had to force myself to finish the banister. I could feel the nervous energy building in my fingers, having to flex them regularly to try and dissipate the feeling. They didn't 'ache', I just felt like punching a wall.

Like I said, many people are fine with it and it's great to see what they've created. It's not for me though and that's a real shame. I'm not giving up entirely. I'm just dabbling in the hope something clicks. I just don't see it happening though because my hands are 'my hands' and no matter what I do I can't change that.

 

[MrKlaw]

I just don't enjoy creating with it. It's as simple as that. I can pretend or try to fool myself into believing I'll eventually get used to it but at the end of the day I just have to admit reality. I can't use these tools in any precise way and it's entirely down to motion control. I know for certain some people are getting along with it but it's not (currently) for me.

Click to shrink...

its the final bit that I don't like. For gross movements, motion controls are fine (I'm talking DS4 here - moves are relatively stable). But for finessing - you want to just line that gadget in your microchip neatly, or move that object a little to the...) there is a lack of accuracy that can make it difficult. Add in constant drift and I can understand the frustration

I don't know why they don't seem to be using the playstation camera to recalibrate the DS4? I know not everyone has it, but I do and I would like to not be constantly fighting the cursor drifting off the side of the screen.

 

[False Witness]

It's upsetting to me to have to concede this. I can get by with more symmetrical shapes using the grid but even then I can only tolerate it for half an hour. I made my spiral staircase in three sittings, and had to force myself to finish the banister. I could feel the nervous energy building in my fingers, having to flex them regularly to try and dissipate the feeling. They didn't 'ache', I just felt like punching a wall.

Like I said, many people are fine with it and it's great to see what they've created. It's not for me though and that's a real shame. I'm not giving up entirely. I'm just dabbling in the hope something clicks. I just don't see it happening though because my hands are 'my hands' and no matter what I do I can't change that.

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Sculpting just isn't for you, which I think you knew ahead of time anyway. All the design work is so much easier with the DS4 anyway due to the way you're constantly diving in and out of things.

 

[MrKlaw]

I'm sorry to hear that, but i do believe that motion controls is the only way for modeling to work. I cant see this stuff being remotely possible with just the joysticks on a DS4. Some functions could work though, so maybe MM can implement more options

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there could at least be an option to turn off motion controls for those that either find it difficult or not enjoyable. You can already fully strafe with the left stick and move in/out. if you turned off motion controls and had the imp be locked to the middle of the screen I think it would work.

 

[MrKlaw]

It's upsetting to me to have to concede this. I can get by with more symmetrical shapes using the grid but even then I can only tolerate it for half an hour. I made my spiral staircase in three sittings, and had to force myself to finish the banister. I could feel the nervous energy building in my fingers, having to flex them regularly to try and dissipate the feeling. They didn't 'ache', I just felt like punching a wall.

Like I said, many people are fine with it and it's great to see what they've created. It's not for me though and that's a real shame. I'm not giving up entirely. I'm just dabbling in the hope something clicks. I just don't see it happening though because my hands are 'my hands' and no matter what I do I can't change that.

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do you have / have you tried moves? For some elements of creation they can be really helpful. At a minimum they're a very different way to interact and they might click with you in a way that the DS4 isn't?

 

[LoudMouse]

do you have / have you tried moves? For some elements of creation they can be really helpful. At a minimum they're a very different way to interact and they might click with you in a way that the DS4 isn't?

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I don't have MOVEs, no. I'm not prepared to spend what little disposable income I can muster on something that may not even solve my problem and would never get used for anything else. A good 90+% of people are going to be using the Dualshock with Dreams. I know for certain I'm not going to be the outlier here ... unfortunately.

 

[EssBeeVee]

You can do very little movement. If you set the scale in/out. From just your wrist. Your arm. Sometimes I get lazy and just have my arms. On my side lol

You might get trusted sometimes because when you're scaling whatever is in the scale circle is the reference

 

[MrKlaw]

I don't have MOVEs, no. I'm not prepared to spend what little disposable income I can muster on something that may not even solve my problem and would never get used for anything else. A good 90+% of people are going to be using the Dualshock with Dreams. I know for certain I'm not going to be the outlier here ... unfortunately.

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where are you based? If you're in the UK I could lend you mine for the duration of the beta

 

[LoudMouse]

its the final bit that I don't like. For gross movements, motion controls are fine (I'm talking DS4 here - moves are relatively stable). But for finessing - you want to just line that gadget in your microchip neatly, or move that object a little to the...) there is a lack of accuracy that can make it difficult. Add in constant drift and I can understand the frustration

I don't know why they don't seem to be using the playstation camera to recalibrate the DS4? I know not everyone has it, but I do and I would like to not be constantly fighting the cursor drifting off the side of the screen.

Click to shrink...

My guess would be to sell MOVEs. In an answer to this very question that I sent to Alex via Twitter, he said they haven't used it because the cable gets in the way, as do your hands when using the triggers. I sat there for quite some time, biting my tongue, wondering whether I should post a follow up response but I didn't. What I was just told was not the truth. The very reason the light is on the controller IS so it can be tracked by the camera, and the reason it's positioned the way it is IS so that the cable and your hands don't interfere with it when using the triggers. Many games have been using this feature successfully, so in conclusion, it HAS to be to sell MOVEs.

 

[Cilidra]

I like the Move to to craft but I am hoping that using the VR will make it even better. I figure dept perception will be much easier. Just looking at what is already there on PSVR (like Tumble VR) I think it should be be unless they mess it up in the implementation.

 

[LoudMouse]

where are you based? If you're in the UK I could lend you mine for the duration of the beta

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That's really kind of you but I'm likely to live a long way from where you are and have no transport but by feet. I'm currently going through a course in order to find a job and if it's successful (fingers crossed), I'll probably pick some up second hand at some point. Like I said, I'm not entirely giving up on Dreams, and it is a 'me' thing because clearly some people are doing extraordinary things in Dreams. I'm just so disappointed that the ONE thing I was always worried about has come home to roost. I'm meticulous, don't have what you would consider 'flair' when it comes to art but I more than make up for that with patience and determination. I can't however overcome something inherent with my age.

 

[MrKlaw]

I like the Move to to craft but I am hoping that using the VR will make it even better. I figure dept perception will be much easier. Just looking at what is already there on PSVR (like Tumble VR) I think it should be be unless they mess it up in the implementation.

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Yeah Tumble VR is my imaginary pattern for how close interaction with objects/sculping could work with Dreams in VR. Also that Unreal engine demo when they announced VR - where you can scale the world up/down so you're the same size as characters in your game, and move things around/build levels etc. Could be amazing.

 

[LoudMouse]

Perhaps R3 could be used to lock onto a point for rotation and L3 could be used to zoom into the creation with three zoom settings: normal, medium, close. This would then free up L1 (automatically disabled for rotating around a sculpture when R3 is pressed) to allow for very fine movement, left and right, forward, backwards, up, down.

 

[Samemind]

My guess would be to sell MOVEs. In an answer to this very question that I sent to Alex via Twitter, he said they haven't used it because the cable gets in the way, as do your hands when using the triggers. I sat there for quite some time, biting my tongue, wondering whether I should post a follow up response but I didn't. What I was just told was not the truth. The very reason the light is on the controller IS so it can be tracked by the camera, and the reason it's positioned the way it is IS so that the cable and your hands don't interfere with it when using the triggers. Many games have been using this feature successfully, so in conclusion, it HAS to be to sell MOVEs.

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Not necessarily. What might have been left unsaid is that the point of failure occurs when you have to twist the controller. I could see then that fingers on the triggers lessen the viewing angle on the lightbar.

 

[Calabi]

I feel like they need like a lazy mouse system or something. Some sort of system that dampens the small fluctuations in hand movement, or just have an option to using the joysticks. Because depending on what you want to do it is really difficult to make things with the Dual Shock. My advice use the grid and guides, but really dont worry about being to exacting it doesn't have to be perfect.

 

[EssBeeVee]

Also that Unreal engine demo when they announced VR - where you can scale the world up/down so you're the same size as characters in your game, and move things around/build levels etc. Could be amazing.

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you could do that with dreams too. double tap X to have it select every single object in the game, then unselect character so it's not part of scaling. and resize lol ;P

 

[LoudMouse]

I feel like they need like a lazy mouse system or something. Some sort of system that dampens the small fluctuations in hand movement, or just have an option to using the joysticks. Because depending on what you want to do it is really difficult to make things with the Dual Shock. My advice use the grid and guides, but really dont worry about being to exacting it doesn't have to be perfect.

Click to shrink...

I often turn the Imp movement down to 1 which allows for less shake. The problem with that is it affects everything unless you constantly go back the the setting for each thing you want to do.

 

[Calabi]

Perhaps R3 could be used to lock onto a point for rotation and L3 could be used to zoom into the creation with three zoom settings: normal, medium, close. This would then free up L1 (automatically disabled for rotating around a sculpture when R3 is pressed) to allow for very fine movement, left and right.

Click to shrink...

The R1 button does that though? It rotates around a point and then you can zoom in and out with the left analog stick.

 

[LoudMouse]

The R1 button does that though? It rotates around a point and then you can zoom in and out with the left analog stick.

Click to shrink...

You're not getting the point. It's only to rotate and not really part of the process. R3 LOCKS into rotation, meaning pressing left and right rotates around the sculpt at the distance the zoom on the L3 sets. It's LOCKED, allowing you to then freely rotate and sculpts at the same time. To help visualise what I mean, imagine making a vase. You'd place down a point (R3), take out a shape, then press L3 to zoom in at one of the three distances. All you'd have to do then is hold left or right and smear.

 

[LoudMouse]

A better explanation of my R3/L3 idea because it's tough to explain:

Currently R1 is used to rotate around a sculpts but it only rotates around a sculpt so you can then go into the sculpt at that point and continue. It does nothing other than rotate and does nothing to solve the problem of then having to meticulously sculpt as usual.

Once you've picked your point of rotation with R3 and your distance with L3, you now rotate at equidistant around the sculpt and are locked to that. You can't accidentally move further away or closer. You have your shape already selected. Let's say it's a circle. Imagine a line from your perspective going straight to the point you've locked onto, and imagine that circle moving back and forth along that line, in and out of the sculpt. You are now completely free to rotate around the sculpt using only the left joystick while the right joystick moves in and out. In this setting R1 is freed up to do another job. It moves very slowly either left or right, up or down, not around with the rotation but rather on a flat plane from the point you've rotated to. To help visualise this, imagine that line I mentioned early, going from your perspective into where you've locked onto, but with a cross section that moves along that line with whatever shape you've selected.

So, lock on (R3), zoom in (L3), rotate to section of sculpture you want with L joystick, move selected shape in and out with the R joystick, hold R1 to then move that selected shape very slowly left/right/up/down.

I'm telling you THIS is the solution.

 

[panda-zebra]

^ That all looks like stuff to discuss on inderams, not here.

 

[Calabi]

A better explanation of my R3/L3 idea because it's tough to explain:

Currently R1 is used to rotate around a sculpts but it only rotates around a sculpt so you can then go into the sculpt at that point and continue. It does nothing other than rotate and does nothing to solve the problem of then having to meticulously sculpt as usual.

Once you've picked your point of rotation with R3 and your distance with L3, you now rotate at equidistant around the sculpt and are locked to that. You can't accidentally move further away or closer. You have your shape already selected. Let's say it's a circle. Imagine a line from your perspective going straight to the point you've locked onto, and imagine that circle moving back and forth along that line, in and out of the sculpt. You are now completely free to rotate around the sculpt using only the left joystick while the right joystick moves in and out. In this setting R1 is freed up to do another job. It moves very slowly either left or right, up or down, not around with the rotation but rather on a flat plane from the point you've rotated to. To help visualise this, imagine that line I mentioned early, going from your perspective into where you've locked onto, but with a cross section that moves along that line with whatever shape you've selected.

So, lock on (R3), zoom in (L3), rotate to section of sculpture you want with L joystick, move selected shape in and out with the R joystick, hold R1 to then move that selected shape very slowly left/right/up/down.

I'm telling you THIS is the solution.

Click to shrink...

That sounds like a pottery table or a lathe. That's not something I've seen a 3D modelling package do, that would be interesting.

 

[LoudMouse]

That sounds like a pottery table or a lathe. That's not something I've seen a 3D modelling package do, that would be interesting.

Click to shrink...

It could be used for that, yeah. Because it's locked, there would be NO shake at all, and because holding the R1 button now moves things extremely slowly left/right/up/down, you can meticulously adjust that shape into place along a flat plane because once you hold R1 in this mode, it also locks the flat plane in place. I'm telling you, this is definitely the solution to the problem.

 

[Saint-14]

So where is my email Sony?