Not supporting competitive communities doesnt mean they have bad community relations. Competitive isn't the only part of these game communities that matters you know
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EVO Japan prize payouts announced; 1st place in SF5 gets 9k (converted to USD), Smash Ultimate gets Pro Controller
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
Nintendo doesn't run the PWC, the Pokemon Company does
But regardless, I think the difference here is that Pokemon's VGC scene wouldn't really exist without that prize pool. People would just play on Showdown in those isolated communities which wouldn't really serve as marketing in the same way that the VGC scene does. The situations are different
More people watch a Nintendo direct than Evo, why would they willfully do a big reveal for a smaller audience that will probably buy the dlc anyways?
Yeah because Capcom and Namco have games as successful as Nintendo have
Start thinking of yourself as a consumer, don't make excuses for Nintendo not choosing to take money out of their pockets. It's really baffling to read all these mental gymnastics to defend the simple fact that it sucks that Nintendo isn't more involved in eSports. And you know what's sadder? That you're defending this even though it results in not having the chance to enjoy an even better scene for Nintendo game such as Smash and Splatoon, something I'm sure Nintendo enthusiasts would ultimately enjoy if they were a thing.
You know what I'm out of this discussion, I'm not gonna fall for the loop.
They're not exactly building good relations with their hyperprotective legal flexing and shitty online that's less functional than fucking Ventrilo.
Yeah. If we learned anything with MK and Smash is that content is what makes foghting games sell nowadays and not esports focus
I as a consumer am not really worse off for Nintendo's involvement in the Smash scene? It's already huge, and it's not like I'd be making the money if they did put it into the scene. Realistically the only people who would actually stand to benefit from this is the select group of 20 or so individuals who are regularly making top 8 at big tournaments
Sure, but that has literally nothing to do with the eSports situation and conflating the two is pointless. In the first place, as a consumer I'd much rather excess cash be put into stuff like online infrastructure than eSports in the first place.
No, you are right, I'd totally hate to see an official Smash Ultimate Tour organized by Nintendo with appearances from people in the company and others, I'd hate it, I'd much rather Nintendo save their money and put it to use somewhere else, yup, that's what I'd love, because that money is totally going into fixing their online infrastructure, no doubt.
Replying to a post implying they have good community relations in general and I can't disagree harder when they're such an isolated and detached company in many ways.
I mean, I don't really care about seeing a bunch of corporate mouth pieces being present at Smash tournaments, I doubt it would increase the number of tournaments or the quality of play at them if Nintendo was more involved, and I just don't see anything of value being present there which we aren't already getting anyways. Like they could announce the smash character at the event instead of on a youtube video, but it's not like the content of what they're showing will be any different regardless of where they show it
Riot will probably try to take Street Fighter's spot with pure spending power, but I don't see the scene growing the level of their other stuff.
A tour would probably never happen because casuals are already buying Smash in droves and that's what they care about.
Sound logic, it doesn't need developers support because it's already big....
WTF, why would anything other developers do to increase their FG community not work with Nintendo? If anything, having a bigger base only mean there is more potential for an even bigger community!
I wasn't implying only competitive communities matter, just that they are one of the many subsets of their broader community which is totally ignored by Nintendo at their own peril. They are fortunate to coast on what they have now but they should be investing in a safer future for themselves by doing anything to strengthen their relationship with their fans.
That's I think where we disagree. Competitive Smash is huge but could be so much bigger and have so much more revenue potential for Nintendo if they were willing to start investing in it. Their current position is an excessively conservative waste of potential that is actively detrimental to everyone involved
the real prize in smash are the funky smells you sniffed along the way.
I just realistically can't see how injecting money into the scene that only a handful of players will ever have a realistic shot at (most of whom are the ones who are already at the top of the scene anyways) is going to somehow massively grow the scene. I think it'd be a different issue if there was a higher chance of Smash players migrating to other games with better prize pools, but there's not.
I mean that's the point. THey aren't involved because it doesn't benefit them?
Any other company would look at the fact that there's a 2 decade old game being played internationally with more than a thousand entrants in 2020 despite pitiful prize pool and TO's paying out of pocket and think "hmm, maybe there's something to this".
Nintendo on the other hand invites some of the biggest names in said community to promote their games in E3 invitationals and gets known commentators to host their official events (like the online one that started lagging and the co-host lied about it even existing...) while simultaneously sticking to the stance that it should not be played for money (even their official tournament prizes are kind of pitiful). Its a fucked up relationship.
Because more money into Smash isn't just more prize pool money, it's running their own series, increasing the production value of tournament/streams, promoting it on official Nintendo channels, etc... Prize pool is there to make competing at the top level sustainable, everything else is to make more watchable/reach more viewers.
You don't see how a tournament promoted through Nintendo official channels would bring more views and potentially more players?
I don't think Nintendo getting involved would actually do much to grow the scene though, at least not to any appreciable extent
I mean, Nintendo does direct people to a bunch of the major tournaments through stuff like twitter though? Not to mention that I feel like the few times Nintendo has done their own events they have gotten less viewership than the fan events anyways
My point was that if you're arguing that they would get more attention simply by virtue of being on Nintendo's official channels the facts state otherwise. Even if they had used rulesets preferred by the competitive community, that would only matter to those who already followed the community which means that stuff like that can't help grow the community.
The problem with Melee as an example is that there's definitely no money in that in addition to the scene probably not wanting Nintendo at this point. With Ultimate Nintendo cares about the casual side and not the competitive scene.
For all of these companies E-Sports are just a way to advertise their games to casuals, but Nintendo doesn't care about dabbling with it all that much outside of some early promotion stuff.
I don't really think this is the case. Even getting top 8 at Evo and Capcom Cup isn't enough to make it sustainable.
Oh yeah, I even forgot about the amount of effort they were willing to put into their own event was an online tournament with Smash U netcode, wonder why that didn't get as much attention as community run events, what could they possibly do... 🤔
But I already mentioned it's not just one thing, it's not just prize pools, not just running their tournament series or just tweeting about it. It's taking the whole thing seriously and putting more into supporting it, starting with willingness to invest money into it. But of course you're more interested in picking single pointd and finding ancedotes of why that specific thing didn't help that one time, you're more here because "Nintendo is getting blamed for something" than anything else.
I'm willing to criticize Nintendo for many things. For example the god awful way they handled switch online and the fact that they thought people would be satisfied with the mobile app. I just don't really think they're in the wrong in this situation and I don't think them not wanting to put money into the esports scene is shady or evil or even just stupid even if I do think it'd be cool if they did
Bigger prize pools make it more sustainable for more players, of course it won't support everyone. Some will find support through sponsors, others with content creation or streaming but of course most will have to keep their IRL jobs. Point is, actual support for the scene could lead to a bigger community and more exposure which open the door wider for all of those things, including the IRL jobs part.
Hot take: prizes don't really impact the size of events.
Of the 3000 entrants into Smash there, my guess is 2950 of them know they have zero chance of making top 8. What counts for them is the event itself.
The reason EVO, CEO, Combo Breaker are the top 3 US events is not because of prize pools, it's because of the prestige of the events and in CEO/CB case, the amount of community stuff making it a better experience for the average pot monster.
Sponsorships are what makes pro tours work. I believe you can make the argument that top players draw out pot monsters too, but I think most pot monsters (I've been one for a long time) do it for the community and love of the game. To be able to fly out to all these pro tour events is expensive- my guess is 20 majors a year costs around $20,000 or so, mostly in airfare/hotel.
We've seen two games this gen (SCVI and UNIST) succeed without real support for their publisher as well. That was all community effort. SCVI got a pro tour and a Season 2 through their community efforts. Grassroots is the biggest factor in growing games. Smash, SFV were going to be as big as they are no matter what (and in SFV's case, despite Capcom's ability to annoy their playerbase)
What we really need are more top tier events.
Of the 3000 entrants into Smash there, my guess is 2950 of them know they have zero chance of making top 8. What counts for them is the event itself.
The reason EVO, CEO, Combo Breaker are the top 3 US events is not because of prize pools, it's because of the prestige of the events and in CEO/CB case, the amount of community stuff making it a better experience for the average pot monster.
Sponsorships are what makes pro tours work. I believe you can make the argument that top players draw out pot monsters too, but I think most pot monsters (I've been one for a long time) do it for the community and love of the game. To be able to fly out to all these pro tour events is expensive- my guess is 20 majors a year costs around $20,000 or so, mostly in airfare/hotel.
We've seen two games this gen (SCVI and UNIST) succeed without real support for their publisher as well. That was all community effort. SCVI got a pro tour and a Season 2 through their community efforts. Grassroots is the biggest factor in growing games. Smash, SFV were going to be as big as they are no matter what (and in SFV's case, despite Capcom's ability to annoy their playerbase)
What we really need are more top tier events.
Bringing top players out to events significantly increases interest and brings other players and other ranked players. Having less incentive for the biggest players to fly out (sometimes internationally) isn't healthy for the scene. The stakes are definitely higher when there's a significant prize up for grabs and also makes spectating more appealing.
It's mindblowing that Nintendo hasn't done anything with Melee. Even a simple re-release, or a port with microtransaction cosmetics or something. It stills pulls more viewers than Ultimate, even after all this time. Seems like it could be a perpetual money maker for them like CS:GO is for Valve.
Most people just want a good port at least. I think they could probably bundle it with 64 and Brawl too, kind of like the Street Fighter Anniversary pack. Crummy additional online being optional ;)
>Excited for competitive scene refresh with Smash Ultimate
>Put off college for a year, quit part time job
>Eat/sleep/practice
>Fly to Japan for Evo
>Comeback from early LB to win it all
>Tears streaming down face as you hoist up a $70 controller in triumph
>Put off college for a year, quit part time job
>Eat/sleep/practice
>Fly to Japan for Evo
>Comeback from early LB to win it all
>Tears streaming down face as you hoist up a $70 controller in triumph
OP
OP
OP
OP
