Oh i definitely believe Bayonetta being shameless and upfront about it makes it relatively better than other games where we see tropes like "But she's actually a 1000 year old dragon!" or "the main character is a pervert but that's funny!"
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Evo Japan stream temporarily cut after overly inappropriate Dead or Alive segment; Evo head apologizes (Read Staff Post)
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Oh i definitely believe Bayonetta being shameless and upfront about it makes it relatively better than other games where we see tropes like "But she's actually a 1000 year old dragon!" or "the main character is a pervert but that's funny!"
Tbh, "but esports!" is a weird tangent to bring into this thread in the first place.
A tournament stream wasn't the proper venue for this kind of presentation.
I feel like Bayonetta - at least the first one, haven't played the second - is the right game for the wrong time. It comes across as sheer kitsch to me; it's so outlandishly over the top, pushes its sexuality so much into your face, that it ends up just being hilariously stupid. At the same time lacking a lot of the elements that you'd normally have if you were doing a cynical appeal to horny men (e.g. gigantic breasts everyone has in DOA). There was never a point where I found it sexy rather than funny. But it also came out at the same time as X-Blades or Onechanbara Revolution, so when I first looked at it, I inevitably thought of it as a standard attempt at a sexy heroine.
But I guess that's a discussion for another place.
Yeah, I expected to wake up to an exhibition, a character reveal, a season pass.
Instead it was this, lol. wtf Shimbori?
Yeah, the 'creepily placed camera angle where you can see under a female character's skirt without her awareness' thing really, really, really pisses me off.
Bayonetta is one of the games I'm pretty mellow on the sexualization because
a) she's aware of the camera objectifying her, and anytime she isn't (eg. a serious moment, or she's injured), the camera stops objectifying her.
b) it's extraordinarily rare in any medium to have a female character openly enjoy her sexuality and not be punished for it in turn (whether it be slurs or sexual assault, etc).
c) she's a playable female protagonist with a love interest (though half the time I'm not sure if it's Luka or subtext with Jeanne, lol), and she's very forward with her intentions, which female protags aren't often allowed in case in makes a portion of the playerbase uncomfortable to be playing a woman interested in a man.
It's 100% not something I want for every game, but as a one-off franchise, I find Bayonetta to be a lot of fun. I do understand why she can be divisive, though.
Not sure what is difficult to understand. They shouldn't have been there. Period.
Wow, that segment was pretty embarrassing. I know that kind of thing isn't too uncommon here in Japan, but while I don't follow the series I was under the impression that DoA was shying away from making "check out these big honkin' tiddies" the primary way to advertise the fighting games in the series.
Maybe there could be a place for stuff like this with like... Senran Kagura or a pervy otaku-aimed Vita game something, but for anything that's not niche and geared towards perverts it's just embarrassing. Well, it's embarrassing either way but you know what I mean.
I'm not part of the BEHEAD THOSE WHO DISPLAY ANIME BOOBS brigade but I'm pretty tired of this stuff being mainstream. There's always gonna be things that objectify women (as well as men, though it's less of an issue for obvious reasons), and I think having some games here and there that do that is ok. A degree of objectification is natural for sexual attraction at its core. But its pretty embarrassing to me and shouldn't be at the forefront of so many games. Or at the very least I wish it weren't. It's fine to have DoA Extreme I guess, but necessary to cut down on this stuff to be taken seriously in the international market.
Maybe there could be a place for stuff like this with like... Senran Kagura or a pervy otaku-aimed Vita game something, but for anything that's not niche and geared towards perverts it's just embarrassing. Well, it's embarrassing either way but you know what I mean.
I'm not part of the BEHEAD THOSE WHO DISPLAY ANIME BOOBS brigade but I'm pretty tired of this stuff being mainstream. There's always gonna be things that objectify women (as well as men, though it's less of an issue for obvious reasons), and I think having some games here and there that do that is ok. A degree of objectification is natural for sexual attraction at its core. But its pretty embarrassing to me and shouldn't be at the forefront of so many games. Or at the very least I wish it weren't. It's fine to have DoA Extreme I guess, but necessary to cut down on this stuff to be taken seriously in the international market.
Nothing about how it was marketed in Japan wound up being in line with that, up to and including the premium edition. There was mixed messaging resulting from their domestic approach clashing with bringing up a desire to scale back fanservice to Western media outlets, though no one who followed DoA5 (which also tried to tone things down before they backpedaled following negative consumer response, even introduced the same "I'm a Fighter" reused for 6 tagline meant to represent the rebranding attempt) ever took them seriously.
"But reports" should be an argument against this because.... Have you guys seen the Olympics? =P
At first I didn't see the problem with the core values phrase. It's very clear, you just look up the mission statement of the company and see what the core values are from there.
So what company are we talking about? I'll Google and look it up.
Oh. FGC. The fighting game community. Not a business.
So what company are we talking about? I'll Google and look it up.
Oh. FGC. The fighting game community. Not a business.
Im loving the meme that core values has become its gonna keep on giving in the FGC. Also all the issues Evo Japan is having in general.
Even if you choose to interpret that statement as speaking solely about EVO, it's still ridiculous. EVO's "core values" include life bans for people who leak details about unreleased Capcom games but slaps on the wrist for dirtbags like Infiltration or people who collude to bend tournaments in their favor or whatever. They don't give a fuck about ethics or "core values" and their tournament is a corporate affair that bends to whichever developers and sponsors can make them the most money, as well as the friends of the organizers and top players. Regardless of what you think about this particular incident or their statement, they're in no position to talk "values".
Awful attitude all around from some men. It's fine as long as you don't play and don't behave like men do. If your a nice girl who's flirty with everyone and doesn't bother to be touched by random strangers, it's fine. If you start arguing about how X character is overpowered, about why SFV sucks , basically speaking on equal grounds, you'll have one hell of a time.
I remember some random dude thought it was normal to play with my hair while sitting behind me, all the while he was eating some gross tacos. Asking him to stop, but he didn't and almost had to slap him back to his senses.
I didn't even spend a lot of time around, I picked a controller to play some random free match and I heard "go makes me a sandwich bitch". Many laughed and only one person stood up for me (Tony Cannon I guess or his brother, the owner of Shoryuken). He tried to make me change my mind, he was very kind and considerate (which was surprising), but I had made my mind. Picked my stuff and went to a nice musem. Never again.
Edit : That was a long time ago. Something like 2013 so maybe things changed since, but I doubt it since I basically hear awful stories from time to time, like when some Smash player grabbed a girl's butt in front of cameras or when a famous player tried to kiss a cosplay model on the mouth by force...
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I know I'm stating the obvious here, but that sounds awful.
The idols were here to compare the game's physics to real world (especially breasts physics). It was only done in the name of science and technological advancement.
I was just watching kof from evo japan and at the bottom of the scream amongst the logo it says something like "evo the most prestigious tournament..." which made me think of this doa situation.
As a longtime fan of the series, Im used to it and dont mind the weird stuff too much. However, for them to have that segment with the booth babes (not sure what theyre called) and the free camera stuff of nyotengu suggesting... you know... just seems wildly out of place. It should have been for a doa festival type thing, not evo.
Thinking of evo as a "prestigious tournament" the "core values" line isnt that far off from what they seem to be going for with evo. idk.
As a longtime fan of the series, Im used to it and dont mind the weird stuff too much. However, for them to have that segment with the booth babes (not sure what theyre called) and the free camera stuff of nyotengu suggesting... you know... just seems wildly out of place. It should have been for a doa festival type thing, not evo.
Thinking of evo as a "prestigious tournament" the "core values" line isnt that far off from what they seem to be going for with evo. idk.
They clearly keep adjusting their bras and tee shirt to make sure everyone can see and I was just saying it looked desperate.
But if you want to try and spin it that they were not then that's cool you live in your world I'll live in mine.
Things have changed since 2013, but they're still bad in spots, though some majors have really cleaned it up (CEO and Combo Breaker have been the trailblazers). Awful stories so happen, but at least now when they do happen action is taken. If you did decide to try again, I'd recommend those events.
Also, in general, the 3D community has a much better track record of being accepting of women, though I think much of it is because most of the successful women FG players are in 3D games.
Oh shit, yeah i can see why you don't want to go to another event. If the same happened to me i would never go again.
