Nope that's on your ass (white folks) to fix. Don't approach or lecture a minority on how they're not Darryl Davis'ing white nationalists.
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Ex White Supremacist: "It's going to get worse"
- Thread starter T002 Tyrant
- Start date
Era and most on the left are morbidly terrified of guns and violence. The other side knows this and exploits it, they dont care about concerned tweets and convenient protest on a sunny saturday. Imagine if those in the past acted the same way, we would be under nazi rule since 1942.
If said criminal got off on stalking and torturing me & people like me before they were arrested I'm not sure why I'd be expected to. Society wanting to doesn't mean it's also my personal duty. I'm black and my own personal opinions about how tolerant I am of white supremacists, ex and otherwise, fluctuates but I don't blame any minority that isn't in the mood to play nice with a person who spent years planning and executing goals related to their destruction. And genuinely I think any sincerely changed white supremacist shouldn't expect to be and should have long made peace with the fact that just because they've changed doesn't mean they'll earn/are entitled to the respect of the people they long targeted for hate and violence.
He was 14 when he did that shit. And he's spent the majority of his life fighting against it. I'm not about to dismiss him just like I wouldn't dismiss some kid who was stupid enough to join a gang at a young age and inflicted hell upon his community. People can change.
Glad he's apparently reformed and working to educate. But as a black man, I will not sit down with white supremacists in a bid to educate them. They've had 400+ years to figure it out.
It's time for fellow white people to put in the work to show them the light. Seems like this guy is doing a decent job. He can educate other peers to spread the word.
It's time for fellow white people to put in the work to show them the light. Seems like this guy is doing a decent job. He can educate other peers to spread the word.
Yup
After The Death of Euphemisms, any kind of pretense related to caring about minorities is completely gone.
After The Death of Euphemisms, any kind of pretense related to caring about minorities is completely gone.
Yeah. And that's your own choice, not anyone else's. Anansi isn't calling for him to die or be jailed. Just that they personally have no interest in listening to him. If you and anyone else does, that's fine though. Anansi doesn't owe him a single thing though.
Just because you're willing to do it doesn't mean other people will be or have to or are even in the wrong to not.
To me this reads like a clarion call that white people need to be more vocal in calling out and standing against white supremacy. I'm glad there are people like him doing the work he does.
What I have been saying but a lot of people think simply electing democrats will fix shit. It will push more republican terrorists to come out of the wood work.
The GOP has been grooming the American version of the Taliban/ISIS for decades and that shit is only going to get worse.
The GOP has been grooming the American version of the Taliban/ISIS for decades and that shit is only going to get worse.
No shit they've "infiltrated" every way of life, it's the DNA of the damn country.
its fucking apathetic that th most privileged and the problem in the equation must be coddled meanwhile everyone else who has serious problems and are targets of said people like black, brown, women, and lgbt are just left to the side. Better things really aren't possible.
its fucking apathetic that th most privileged and the problem in the equation must be coddled meanwhile everyone else who has serious problems and are targets of said people like black, brown, women, and lgbt are just left to the side. Better things really aren't possible.
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Yeah, pretty much the problem I have with "reformed White Surpremacists" is that even though they've "seen the light", they are STILL taking advantage of "white supremacy" because ONLY white people are allowed redemption. Like, black or latino gang members, they can better themselves, make amends and change their ways, but everything good they do, that doesn't change the fact that in this society (this racist ass, white supremacy society), it don't matter, they'll always be seen as thugs and cholos. We don't got that privilege to be accepted the same way a white ciminal/white supremacist does when they "change their ways". With whites, it's the whole prodigal son bit, but with blacks and latinos, once a thug, always a thug, and even if you ain't a thug, YOU'RE A THUG!
Personally, I'm not advocating to be crazy or as irrational as the Right, but if you are in a situation where you and your loved ones lives are threatened (they are going to KILL you), don't be afraid to fight, and if need be, take those fucks out. You have a right to fight and defend yourself, so don't be caught up with the worries of being humaine or finding the humanity in those that wish to hurt you and your loved ones. Nothing is as simple as "black and white", sometimes there are instances where you HAVE to fight, for your loved ones, your rights and survival. This isn't advocating violence for the sake of violence, but if you are even in a situation where you and your love ones are targeted victims, don't be afraid to fight for you life, and take it as FAR as you can go if need be, ESPECIALLY if these people see you as sub-human and consider your elimination necessary for their "white ethnostate" to be realized.
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I don't give a fuck what a "reformed" racist has to say. There's plenty of black people that have been saying this shit for decades, that aren't shit people, that aren't being listened to because they're black.
seeeing the reaction on here, look to make progress it's not gonna be pretty and annoying ass and unfair compromises have to be made, the racism dying out way isn't gonna die and are fighting back hard
G'damn this doesn't get brought up enough but it's 100% true. It's a reality that gets even more brutal once you start folding in how failures of equity of education, environmental, and finances caused by generations of bigotry, segregation and oppression create the kind of disparity that forms and perpetuates gangs in and around minority communities.
People really have to stop name dropping Daryl Davis. He's just allowing himself to be used.
I'm not saying he hasn't probably helped anyone(or you should never try) but let's not post numbers as if its fact that Davis has converted these people rather than them using him for press and turning around going right back to what they were doing when the cameras were gone or he was of no use.
I'm not saying he hasn't probably helped anyone(or you should never try) but let's not post numbers as if its fact that Davis has converted these people rather than them using him for press and turning around going right back to what they were doing when the cameras were gone or he was of no use.
"It's going to get worse" is from the position of white privilege, growing up as a minority in america you always know it can get worse.
Hell Tim Wise been saying it for eons, but I guess he should have burned a few crosses first
yeah, we've known about the infiltrations for a while now - even the feds had their report, which of course got slept on
and i know a lot of folks wan to meet hate with love, but it's worth pointing out that the notion that every white racist can somehow be saved is also rooted in white supremacy: we don't need to change hearts and minds, we need to attach consequences and make organizing/assembling harder
and i know a lot of folks wan to meet hate with love, but it's worth pointing out that the notion that every white racist can somehow be saved is also rooted in white supremacy: we don't need to change hearts and minds, we need to attach consequences and make organizing/assembling harder
Very true. Some racist organizations will pay for your education and cover your expenses to put you into key positions to help them and their agenda. They cover their tracks well enough to where you wouldn't be able to follow the money for that shit
Uh, that won't change much other than the perps having more money for ammo. The El Paso shooter lived in a rich suburb north of Dallas.
This dude is a prime example of why we need to avoid shouting matches with Trump supporters and racists in the streets. Within reason of course - obviously some of them are beyond help and the figureheads deserve no compassion.
If you want a conservative to listen to what you're saying, you need to grit your teeth and respond to their arguments with "I see where you're coming from, but..." or "I can understand that, but have you looked at it this way?" Stuff like that.
If you want a conservative to listen to what you're saying, you need to grit your teeth and respond to their arguments with "I see where you're coming from, but..." or "I can understand that, but have you looked at it this way?" Stuff like that.
I hope you're ready... Because they'll be coming... I'm really nervous about the state of affairs going into the next 5 years
All seriousness, whats the cut off line? What among of bigotry and general hate should margalized people tank so that they can defend their humanity? A quick " go back to africa"? A "we speak american around here"? A "Nigger" or 3?
I'm talking about day to day interactions with people most on this forum would either avoid talking to altogether or get in really unproductive shouting matches with. This "where's the line" sentiment doesn't really make sense because you can generally tell whether or not someone is worth talking to from their demeanor or prior interactions. Obviously someone acting like an outright racist or using the N-word is going to make it harder or impossible to interact with them in a productive way.
It's just so frustrating trying to beat down people with facts and compassionate reasoning when they don't want to listen. Sometimes just leading your argument with a positive and not turning it into a shouting match is all you need to do. That's all I'm saying.
It's fucking cute when white people preach to minorities about having compassion and understanding for racists.
Majority of White People frankly don't give a slight fuck about curbing racism, or stopping White Supremacy. It doesn't affect their daily lives negatively or if they are aware, they would very much rather preserve the current system in their favor.
It's easy to tell minorities what they should be doing, But when it comes to Daddy ranting his Fox News propaganda??
Mom complaining about diversity hires at work??
Sister talking about how she'll never date criminal black guys???
Brother on the computer writing his web diatribe about how niggers are scum???
Grandparents explaining why they don't like Obama for being a nigger trying to destroy this country??
Silence....... Because even the white people who do want to end racism, who do want to stop white supremacy frankly lack the drive..... The gumption.... The balls to confront the people in their own household and hold them to task for their hatred.
It's easier to tell others what "we all should be doing"
I'm over it, alot of people are.
White People have an extreme amount of soul searching to do and haven't found it in 400 years
Majority of White People frankly don't give a slight fuck about curbing racism, or stopping White Supremacy. It doesn't affect their daily lives negatively or if they are aware, they would very much rather preserve the current system in their favor.
It's easy to tell minorities what they should be doing, But when it comes to Daddy ranting his Fox News propaganda??
Mom complaining about diversity hires at work??
Sister talking about how she'll never date criminal black guys???
Brother on the computer writing his web diatribe about how niggers are scum???
Grandparents explaining why they don't like Obama for being a nigger trying to destroy this country??
Silence....... Because even the white people who do want to end racism, who do want to stop white supremacy frankly lack the drive..... The gumption.... The balls to confront the people in their own household and hold them to task for their hatred.
It's easier to tell others what "we all should be doing"
I'm over it, alot of people are.
White People have an extreme amount of soul searching to do and haven't found it in 400 years
But you are not getting it. This is isn't an odd occursance this shit can be everyday for some people. For a lot of margalized people the only peace they get is with in their own homes, it's no something they can opt in and out of. To add the stress of deprogramming shit that was ingrained in the system 400 years before they were born is showing a lack of empathy. There been studies that showed many black people suffer from undiagnosed PTSD related to systematic racism, the high suicide rates for LGBTQ, etc.
For some in this thread this is a thought expertiment, for others this is asking to put aside their mental and general health and save their oppressors
Well, you have a good point regarding marginalized people who deal with this shit on a daily basis. And it goes to show how privileged I am as a white person that I can approach this topic in the way I have been without all the baggage that comes from being beat down with racism and hatred my whole life.
And like I understand that on the internet there is very little point in trying when you could be calling people out for their hateful actions and encouraging hosts to drop hate sites.
I guess all I'm saying is that if you have the privilege of being able to interact with these people irl from the perspective of someone who isn't marginalized on a daily basis, it's maybe not the worst idea on the planet to try and reason with them from time to time. It just sucks seeing people around you turning to racism and hatred and knowing that your usual method of shouting them down isn't going to do anything but make you feel better in the moment. I don't know what the solution is.
I mean, how I and most people act on this forum in response to bigotry within news and media is slightly heightened. For many marginalized people including black people, women, LGBTQ+ people, in our actual day to day we don't devolve into shouting matches at literally every turn. For our own safety and sanity, we distinctly try to be patient in the face of a culture where individuals and the system are consistently needling at us. When people like myself say we want to avoid these conversations it's because it's usually with the context of living in a culture where these conversations have been part of our lives since before we could string together sentences in the first place. It's not just "frustrating" or "difficult". It's being asked to complete do a triple backflip when you've spent the last 20+ years of your life in a perpetual marathon. Some disenfranchised people are still willing to do it and some people are through with the whole thing and still others will change between being willing to one month and completely against being kind the next and all are justified in their reactions.
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White person here, and you fucking nailed it. I called out my parents on their BS and guess what? Actual improvements occurred. Sure, we should be respectful to other white racists to get shit done and all that (where applicable, sometimes aggression is all that can remain), but no fucking way should we outright EXPECT the same of minorities. You guys are actually experiencing that shit head on. No-one should EXPECT you to turn the other cheek. I prefer peaceful methods every time, but I won't blame any Black person for not tolerating BS because it's 100% understandable of them not to.
For what little it's worth, I've been saying this for years at this point, and I'll keep saying it to everyone who simply doesn't do enough to help.
And to those on the fence about calling out their parents, they're more likely to pay attention and listen to someone they love than someone they already hate. You may wish they get better subconsciously, but literally THE most ideal person to make them get better is YOU.
"Young Republicans" typically come from rich parents, a hardcore Christian household, or households that were already staunchly republican.
The only way you can believe socialism will solve social ills through economic aid is if you believe it's impossible to be a racist leftist.
Reality is there's no cognitive dissonance for racist leftists when you believe America is a country for whites. Therefore, non-whites must be pushed out and whites taken care of.
I'm not sure if you are thinking the Covington kids are poor(maybe because of Kentucky stereotypes) or not but just to be clear, Covington Catholic High School(their school) is a private school with a yearly tuition of $8,060. They were not poor kids struggling with economic anxiety.
Again, I'm not sure if that's what you meant. Sorry if that is not the case.
The fact he mentioned pilots scares the fuck out of me that they are going to pull their own 9/11 to kill minorities
I never said it would solve it.
The entire thesis of liberal capitalistic democracy is that economic prosperity brings liberalism which brings tolerance and democracy. This isn't even a particularly socialist talking point.
My argument, at least from a socialist standpoint, is that lack of economic mobility creates the conditions for radicalization. The radicalization itself doesn't come from economic factors, but cultural factors that existed long before modern economics. The economic factors merely push people towards or away from radicalization depending on how it's implemented. What's the commonality between white supremacists, Bolsonaro voters, Modi voters, and ISIS recruits? Young. Desperate. Lacking direction. Maybe just bored. If you can figure out how to solve these problems without addressing material conditions, by all means, go ahead, but to me it seems a simple case of "people being sold a dream they realized they have no chance of attaining".
I stand corrected.
Centuries of white supremacy and colonialism won't suddenly die off with the old generation.
My other argument, as a socialist, would be that modern white supremacy is funded by a few super rich guys at the top, Murdoch, the Kochs, the Mercers, etc. They fund the think tanks and the recruitment groups and "alternative news" outlets occasionally even dabble with pushing this personality or that (Milo Yannopoulis, Dr. Lobster). If you want to get rid of them, outside of outright assassination, you need to attack their means, i.e., their wealth, and the corporate structure that preserves their power over the world.
These threads always bring out the whitest white people putting their foot in their mouths that have clearly never talked to minorities in any meaningful way.
As a Jewish person, I am in a unique spot where I am perceived as white and am allowed into "white" spaces as long as I don't speak out of turn. I know many of these people would immediately otherize if they realized I am Jewish. I think I've said it before but a lot of ashkenazi Jews have a sort of conditional white privilege. We are seen as infiltrators and saboteurs. Even leftists have started to spout this (indirectly or otherwise).
Dismantling white supremacy isn't just beating Nazis, it's unrooting the entire system that has stacked the deck for eons.
As a Jewish person, I am in a unique spot where I am perceived as white and am allowed into "white" spaces as long as I don't speak out of turn. I know many of these people would immediately otherize if they realized I am Jewish. I think I've said it before but a lot of ashkenazi Jews have a sort of conditional white privilege. We are seen as infiltrators and saboteurs. Even leftists have started to spout this (indirectly or otherwise).
Dismantling white supremacy isn't just beating Nazis, it's unrooting the entire system that has stacked the deck for eons.
Why would the people who have just been on the receiving end of hate be more experienced in deradicalization techniques than people who have actually deradicalized?
its ultimately up to white people to actually solve the problem of white supremacy, don't put the onus of that on vulnerable minorities.
This is actually a fairly common point raised in anti-terrorism pieces. Truck driving as a profession is vulnerable because of the fairly low skill needed to enter, the wide reach of travel and their general ubiquity and as a result invisibility to society. No matter where you are a delivery or similar truck of some sort will seem appropriate and thus opens the public to vulnerability.
Yep. And the screwed up part is that minorities throughout history have been at the forefront of that fight for their own sake at the very least. Minorities have given the most and lost the most in the battle against white supremacy and yet still to this day there are people who want to act like we aren't doing our part.
White supremacy is a terrorist ideology after all. They will always look for opportunities to do the most damage to the most amount of their targets even if it means sacrificing themselves or the lives of other white people.