Ex White Supremacist: "It's going to get worse"

[T002 Tyrant]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/conversation-christian-picciolini/595543/

- Ex White Supremacist Christian Picciolini who now runs a global network, providing counseling to others trying to leave extremist movements

- Warns that White Supremacists have infiltrated every walk of society from politicians, police, airline pilots etc

- White terrorist groups want to surpass Tim McVeigh the terrorist who performed the largest terrorist attack on the United States before 9/11

- Hypothesises about attacks regards White Supremacist airline pilots and truck drivers

- White Supremacy used to be fringe but now it's mainstream, making it normalised

- Online communities make it easier to not only allow millions of global White Supremacists to communicate but the internet makes it easier not to associate with the outside world and make only connections with like minded people re-enforcing the behaviour (like a cult)

- Funding used to be through music back in the day, now it's through ad revenue via YouTube, websites and white supremacist press. Although with more and more cuts to funding they're becoming more dangerous describing them feeling "like a caged animal" playing the victim card etc

- Trump "very good at kicking buckets of gasoline over sparks of fire that already exist"

- Like other terrorist groups usually the young and venerable looking for a sense of purpose are recruited and brainwashed

- He got out when people of other races, sexualities etc not only challenged his behaviour on a constant basis, but also gave him love and compassion (something I have also noticed with ex-Westbro members)

- Facts don't do anything to convert White Supremacists but emotions, the least effective thing one can do is tell someone they're wrong

---

It's a very interesting article and a forewarning that things are about to get a lot, lot worse. I can also imagine things over here in the UK getting bad too with Brexit seemingly giving racists seemingly a license to do whatever they want.

I do find it pertinent about what it said about online communities vs the real world and not shouting down with aggrieved attacks (which just creates further divides), but showing compassion and challenging the ideas set in their head without aggression, and facts not working whatsoever but it being an emotional journey. Similar methods bring used on ex-Westbro members and a method used by Darryl Davis - who's converted 200 KKK members out of the Klan.

 

[samoyed]

I'll read this later but it just confirms all my fears. Thanks for posting.

 

[Frankie Williamson]

Yaaayyy.

Boy the future's looking fun.

 

[Maximo]

Truck drivers will be an easy target once automation creeps up.

 

[Khanimus]

I mean, shit sure wasn't looking like it was going to get better

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

It's what I've been dreading.

 

[Strike]

I'm expecting it to. This is a long time coming.

 

[EatChildren]

- Like other terrorist groups usually the young and venerable looking for a sense of purpose are recruited and brainwashed

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Predisposition towards radicalisation and the social factors that propagate these circumstances is a major problem that often goes ignored during discussion. It's obviously not the only issue and is inherently complex in of itself, but it's one of the most important to address in not just stopping terrorism now, but more importantly reducing it for the future. The same methodologies so readily identified as used by Islamic extremists for recruiting vulnerable young men are used in equal measure by white supremacy groups. Hell, the military uses the same tactic; target recruitment advertising towards those in social hierarchies more likely to feel unsatisfied, unfulfilled, aimless, and lost in their life. They are far more susceptible to brainwashing under the guise of community and a promise of belonging and worth.

 

[samoyed]

It is vital we engage in systematic transfer of wealth downwards. Every teenager who feels like they have no chance at a good life is prime target for recruitment.

Telling them to take on a shitload of student debt and go into STEM is not going to cut it, because every kid who goes into STEM fights against every other STEM student for the same positions, driving wages down, and sending you back into square one with regards to social mobility.

 

[Deleted member 7130]

Yep, I've been getting this sense for years. Police, national defense/security, the courts, legislature... they are in. Those fucker who get all coy and pretend racism ain't a big deal or they don't see color... They will work to disenfranchise more people. They will pursue the ethno state.

 

[Funky Papa]

Predisposition towards radicalisation and the social factors that propagate these circumstances is a major problem that often goes ignored during discussion. It's obviously not the only issue and is inherently complex in of itself, but it's one of the most important to address in not just stopping terrorism now, but more importantly reducing it for the future. The same methodologies so readily identified as used by Islamic extremists for recruiting vulnerable young men are used in equal measure by white supremacy groups. Hell, the military uses the same tactic; target recruitment advertising towards those in social hierarchies more likely to feel unsatisfied, unfulfilled, aimless, and lost in their life. They are far more susceptible to brainwashing under the guise of community and a promise of belonging and worth.

Click to shrink...

There was a recent piece showing similarities in recruitment between ISIS/DAESH and far right fringes, both looking out to weaponise the young and lonely. Guys who feel rejected (by women, in particular: high school loners have become a priced commodity) and can easily fall into the radicalisation pipeline with just a little effort and support from similarly minded people.

- He got out when people of other races, sexualities etc not only challenged his behaviour on a constant basis, but also gave him love and compassion (something I have also noticed with ex-Westbro members)

Click to shrink...

Articles like the one in the OP should also be a blaring alarm to the many Eraers crying for bans and, yes, outrage, at the smallest infraction. People with the energy for it should be able to engage them in a polite manner, challenge their thoughts and try to show them why they are wrong. Not everybody with a bad take is a hardened skinhead. Throwing those people into the loving arms of other communities may end up being considerably worse than having to read a few bad comments.

 

[DonMigs85]

At some point perhaps the anger gets directed towards automation, AI, robots, or the people behind their development

 

[Psamtik]

We beat them before, and we'll do it again.

 

[dapperbandit]

I read some of this guys hypotheticals with some skepticism. He raises good points about how facts don't work and that increasingly people can lock themselves in a bubble and that community becomes their only human interaction.

But I don't see how the guy would suggest he knows what kind of attacks might happen. There's no central command for these people. Guys like Richard Spencer appear from time to time but the infighting and distrust with these groups is so strong they inevitably fall out of favour for being "controlled opposition" or cucks for not being extreme enough etc.

 

[R0987]

As the saying goes first it needs to get worse before it gets better though I dont know if this still applies to the crazy reality we live in.

 

[SinkFla]

I kinda like the "you're wrong" thing not being effective, although it's only successful in small numbers. Love and compassion shown towards the ignorant will not always win, because most people living solely off of bigotry and hateful ideology are beyond hope TBH. ESPECIALLY in our day and age.

I think I may have mentioned this before but when I was about 12 or so and posting on forums, I didn't always have the best or most reasonable opinions and worldview. In fact, because of where I've grown up (the South) I was exposed to a lot of racism, homophobia and evangelism. Fortunately my parents have been/were always pretty open minded individuals who raised me to treat EVERYONE with compassion and to emphathize with anyone and everyone regardless of religious beliefs or race. With that said, there were plenty of kids in my school and at church that deeply ingrained into me why "being gay is sinful and wrong" and even kids I considered friends would show their true racist colors around me. I still remember even getting shit by other white kids for having black friends. It wasn't until I followed suit and shared my vile opinions on a message board (old forum for THPS lol), that I was then challenged with reason and reality and that I realized how blinded I was by people claiming to be my friends or proclaiming themselves to be "good God fearing people". Of course some rightfully told me to go fuck myself but others debated with me and showed me WHY I was being ignorant... that I didn't have to hold bigoted views to believe in God (which I don't anymore to either of those things lol) and that I was in fact not thinking with logic and reason but rather with the dogmatic cancer that is systematically taught hate and ignorance. I'm grateful that those people taught me what it really means to be a good, compassionate person. Had I not experienced that who knows what might have been (I'm hoping I would have come to my senses either way).

Whatever the case, had I not experienced this I wouldn't have my best friends today who have been there for me in the worst of times.

 

[UltraMagnus]

Let these clowns come out of the shadows. If they're so desperate to replace fundamentalist terrorists as no.1 on the shit list, have it you goofs and see how well that goes for you.

They couldn't win shit in the 50s-60s even as the majority because they didn't have the courage, strength, and decency that people in the civil right's movement had, they won't win shit now that more than half of the country under 30 is a PoC.

 

[Mechaplum]

A good point there with emotions, we are insanely feels-centered even if we deny it.

 

[EatChildren]

There was a recent piece showing similarities in recruitment between ISIS/DAESH and far right fringes, both looking out to weaponise the young and lonely. Guys who feel rejected and can easily fall into the radicalisation pipeline with just a little effort and support from similarly minded people.

Articles like the one in the OP should also be a blaring alarm to the many Eraers crying for bans and, yes, outrage, at the smallest infraction. Engage those people in a polite manner, challenge their thoughts and try to show them that they are wrong. Not everybody with a bad take is a hardened skinhead. Throwing those people into the loving arms of other communities may end up being considerably worse than having to read a few bad comments.

Click to shrink...

Exactly. And I get it; nobody wants to open up the marketplace of ideas or whatever other parroted rhetoric to people they consider hard right neo Nazi fascists, ones who are threats to their livelihood and very existence, and expect to offer them candour and grace. I get the resistance there.

But I don't know how many psychological profiles we need, how many case studies, anecdotes from ex terrorists of various cells and ideologies detailing how they and others are radicalised, before people wake up the social complexities and broadness of circumstances that condition a person to easy radicalisation. It's so easy for educated, learned, privileged, and liberalised members of society (like myself) to immediately expect the same level of rationality and logic from everybody else. Society does not work like that. Psychological and sociological evidence highlights the exact opposite.

We live in a enormous, complex society with strict social and economical hierarchies that unfortunately bear the fruit of people who, arguably more than any time in human history, feel isolated, lonely, unsupported, miscommunication, confused, angry without purpose and target, and lost despite the social connectivity available right at their finger tips. It's not a problem exclusive to the modern age, but it is unique in its vastness and potential for danger. These people feel this way before they are radicalised, and before they harbour violent, extremist ideologies. Almost every terrorist sect in the entire world targets these individuals specifically for radicalisation, because they know they can hit them hardest where it matters most; the promise of belonging to a community, shared ideals and concepts, all of which are supported by peers.

Human beings are fundamentally wired to be social creatures, as a means of survivalism. Terrorist cells (and the military) play off these to those who feel they have nothing. It happens time and time again and has done so all throughout human history all over the world. And it will keep happening until society addresses the issue of why human beings in a population dense, technologically connected modern world still feel isolated, purposeless, lonely, and hopeless.

This doesn't address the root of violent ideologies, unfortunately, which is another major and even more rampant, complex problem.

 

[Mekanos]

We beat them before, and we'll do it again.

Click to shrink...

White supremacy doesn't exist only as a boogeyman wearing swastikas and saluting Heil Hitler. It is a complex, deeply woven fabric of our society. The Nazis didn't come out of nowhere, in fact they learned a lot from American genocide tactics. This is a very naive understanding of the situation.

 

[Avitus]

We beat them before, and we'll do it again.

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Most of these dudes are just generic down on your luck lonely guys that snap. The white supremacy is only part of it.

 

[Raguel]

Let them come.

 

[samoyed]

The fear isn't not beating them, the fear is of the potential lives lost in the process.

I'd prefer it if we addressed white supremacy without resorting to the last resort, open warfare.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

- Like other terrorist groups usually the young and venerable looking for a sense of purpose are recruited and brainwashed

Click to shrink...

Yeah, there was a story some time back that they're basically actively recruiting through online portions of video games and such which isn't much of a surprise.

 

[rusty chrome]

Not even their own shitty parents ever loved them and they think they're gonna get love from normal people? Lmao

 

[KtotheRoc]

Absolutely terrifying knowing that the goddamn President of the United States is one of these people, and has done everything in his power to make it harder to fight them in the future.

 

[Excuse me]

While US is not Nazi Germany, I still strongly recommend book called They Thought They Were Free.

development of fascism in Germany. Mayer's book is a study of ten Germans and their lives from 1933-45, based on interviews he conducted after the war when he lived in Germany. Mayer had a position as a research professor at the University of Frankfurt and lived in a nearby small Hessian town which he disguised with the name "Kronenberg." "These ten men were not men of distinction," Mayer noted, but they had been members of the Nazi Party; Mayer wanted to discover what had made them Nazis.

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it."--from Chapter 13, "But Then It Was Too Late"

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Scary book that mirrors lot of what is happening today in various countries.

 

[Dust]

Memes too, a good chunk of memes have subtle racist undertones or origin, with even small kids passing them further.

 

[EatChildren]

Let them come.

Click to shrink...

No need to ask them to, they are already here, and have been successfully murdering plenty of people before getting caught. And that's ignoring the entrenched white supremacy in the US police system that kills black people on the regular, unchecked and without punishment.

Not even their own shitty parents ever loved them and they think they're gonna get love from normal people? Lmao

Click to shrink...

The circumstances people are born into, of which they cannot help, are complicated, varied, and often enormous detrimental to an individual's growth and sense of belonging in a society that isn't always inclusive or easy to navigate. Our modern society is loaded with issues of social isolation, loneliness, and a sense of worthlessness and absence of communal belonging.

The digital age has both rewarded and hindered us. For the former, it has offered those who once felt isolated and lonely a place of positive shared community (cliche: geeks and nerds), connecting with like-minded individuals, developing a sense of community, and in turn a sense of value and identity. We've seen this cited countless times by those who feel they've lived on the fringes of normalised society because of their mannerisms and interests, who thanks to the internet found friends and community, potentially saving them from mental degradation and developing psychological issues. How many people have been saved from suicide thanks to finding friends online, people to talk to where they have none, and those that share their interests? I can guarantee ResetEra is home to many right here.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned consequence of the digital age is taking a group of people sharing like-minded issues of isolation and loneliness, and instead predisposition them towards radicalisation, of which terrorist cells (ISIS, White Supremacy, Taliban, etc) are all very well aware of and use to their advantage.

Nobody is asking anyone to hug a Nazi. But this problem of radicalisation is not ever going to be solved in the West, or anywhere else in the world, for as long as we have societies that nurture hierarchies that produce circumstances resulting in individuals predispositioned to this dangerous rabbit hole.

 

[ArjanN]

I read some of this guys hypotheticals with some skepticism. He raises good points about how facts don't work and that increasingly people can lock themselves in a bubble and that community becomes their only human interaction.

But I don't see how the guy would suggest he knows what kind of attacks might happen. There's no central command for these people. Guys like Richard Spencer appear from time to time but the infighting and distrust with these groups is so strong they inevitably fall out of favour for being "controlled opposition" or cucks for not being extreme enough etc.

Click to shrink...

Pretty much. It's still comes off a bit as trying to aggrandize it as some sort of organized movement instead of there just being a lot of chaotic hateful loons.

 

[Mekanos]

I think the big tipping point will be once we hit a resource crisis amongst economic recession and climate change. Very quickly we will see borders get strengthened and people being afraid of "outsiders" taking what they have. And not just out-and-out white supremacists either.

 

[Funky Papa]

Memes too, a good chunk of memes have subtle racist undertones or origin, with even small kids passing them further.

Click to shrink...

I know a couple of defence analysts/consultants working right now on memetic warfare. This is a thing that exists.

It's not just racist memes, too. All that Pepe and edgy stuff that may get an uncomfortable laugh out of you? Radical muslim groups recycle it all the time and even create their own memes. Each time there's a large attack their Telegram channels are flooded with memes that wouldn't look out of place in some other communities if you changed the subject. Again, striking similarities.

"It's just memes, bro" may be one of the most loaded excuses you can find. But unfortunately, they are silly memes, so it's not like you can paint everybody who shares them with the same brush. It's an incredibly complicated situation.

 

[samoyed]

Where do I apply to be a soldier in the meme wars?

 

[Funky Papa]

Where do I apply to be a soldier in the meme wars?

Click to shrink...

Hit me up with a good galaxybrain one and I may get you to the connect.

 

[Natasha Kerensky]

i mean, you have a white supremacist police force wearing military gear and equipment

you have a over-bloated military force that is brainwashed into thinking that it's cool to kill millions of brown people overseas

you have a sizeable contingent of white civilians who view brown and black people as subhumans and vermin that don't deserve rights

you have an incredibly rich ruling class comprised of super rich white men with a lot of power

you have a corporate surveillance apparatus from silicon valley ruled by dumb rich white men who only care about "engagement" and not the white supremacist propaganda and harassment being spread

you have a prison and justice system that incarcerates black and brown folk in numbers higher than the amount of slaves back in the 19th century

you have a hyper-consumerist system that accelerates climate apocalypse that will primarily target and kill brown and black people across the world

you have a bunch of weak liberals who would rather berate women of color like maxine waters and ilhan ohmar than take a stand against the white nationalist republican party

you have a bunch of weak liberals who thinks someone responsible for punishing and locking up poor black folk should be the next US president as if the black lives matter movement never even existed

you have dumb liberals thinking that the white supremacist and imperialist institutions like the FBI and the CIA will come to save them

you have dumb liberals who believe and also donate money to the New York Times, a paper known for advocating killing black and brown people across the globe for decades and most recently publishes white nationalist propaganda.

so yeah, things are going to get much much worse because the system, those in power, and the shitty opposition will kill and torture black and brown people acros the globe like they have for centuries already

 

[apocat]

- He got out when people of other races, sexualities etc not only challenged his behaviour on a constant basis, but also gave him love and compassion (something I have also noticed with ex-Westbro members)

Click to shrink...

This is important. The example of the westboro church reminded me of this clip, which I watch whenever I need to restore some faith in humanity.

Where do I apply to be a soldier in the meme wars?

Click to shrink...

No need. You are hereby officially drafted.

 

[Red Arremer]

Pretty much what the left (as in actual left not liberals) has been saying for the past few years, but has been brushed off by liberals and centrists as conspiracy theories or exaggerating the impact.

 

[jman2050]

We beat them before, and we'll do it again.

Click to shrink...

The question though is whether they were ever "beaten" in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

One big thing that's always missing from this discussion is America is a white supremacist society

 

[Acorn]

"it's going to get worse" seems to be the story of so much bad shit going on.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/conversation-christian-picciolini/595543/

- He got out when people of other races, sexualities etc not only challenged his behaviour on a constant basis, but also gave him love and compassion (something I have also noticed with ex-Westbro members)

- Facts don't do anything to convert White Supremacists but emotions, the least effective thing one can do is tell someone they're wrong

---

Click to shrink...

If the onus is on people of color to be impossibly loving for us to not be killed by people we can't even acknowledge as "wrong" yet are supposed to "challenge", nothing will be done.

People of color have emotions too and aren't trained for de-radicalizing people who believe we are subhuman; at least I'm not.

Sorry guys, I guess we deserve to be terrorized because I don't want to coddle people that want to/are killing people.

You're either Martin Luther King Jr mixed with Daryl Davis or you deserve to be killed by America's long-standing lust for white supremacist violence, obviously.

 

[StarGentleUterus]

If the onus is on people of color to be impossibly loving for us to not be killed by people we can't even acknowledge as "wrong" yet are supposed to "challenge", nothing will be done.

People of color have emotions too and aren't trained for de-radicalizing people who believe we are subhuman; at least I'm not.

Sorry guys, I guess we deserve to be terrorized because I don't want to coddle people that want to/are killing people.

You're either Martin Luther King Jr mixed with Daryl Davis or you deserve to be killed by America's long-standing lust for white supremacist violence, obviously.

Click to shrink...

Tbh, do we need white ex-white supremacist to know how it's been bad and how it's gonna get worse?

 

[baron doggystyle von woof]

Extreme right wing is the biggest danger in most countries right now.

Germany has seen attacks as well and they are organized. Scary af.

Just when we see more equality these cunts come back into the picture.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Tbh, do we need white ex-white supremacist to know how it's been bad and how it's gonna get worse?

Click to shrink...

For real.

 

[AnansiThePersona]

Tbh, do we need white ex-white supremacist to know how it's been bad and how it's gonna get worse?

Click to shrink...

Yeah why should I give a shit what a person like that has to say? Like you were dumb/evil enough to be a white supremacist. Why not listen to people who have experienced hate rather than spread it?

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Yeah why should I give a shit what a person like that has to say? Like you were dumb/evil enough to be a white supremacist. Why not listen to people who have experienced hate rather than spread it?

Click to shrink...

Because he knows what's inside these organisations and what they're like, who is in them, what sort of thing they plan rather than just guessing?

I mean, this bloke has deprogrammed over 300 people since being 'dumb/evil' and I'd wager pretty much all the holier than thou posts in these threads have done fuck all but whinge on the internet about hate.

 

[StarGentleUterus]

holier than thou

Click to shrink...

Sounds about white

 

[tommy7154]

If Trump gets re elected theres no way it wont get worse. If he doesnt then i would disagree that it necessarily will. Theres still hope, but we need a leader who will shift us swiftly away from our current trajectory.

Right now we have people on a daily basis being brainwashed from all directions and normalizing hate and fear. It has to stop and stop fast.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Sounds about white

Click to shrink...

That's why I feel like the love and compassion thing being required for the most extreme and violent side and being totally optional toward the side that is constantly targeted by the extreme and violent side is problematic at best and outright threatening at worst

How do you even "challenge" people without telling them they're "wrong"? Non-white people have to be inhumanly caring or else

 

[Keldroc]

If Trump gets re elected theres no way it wont get worse. If he doesnt then i would disagree that it necessarily will. Theres still hope, but we need a leader who will shift us swiftly away from our current trajectory.

Right now we have people on a daily basis being brainwashed from all directions and normalizing hate and fear. It has to stop and stop fast.

Click to shrink...

Even if Trump loses, the millions who support him and his white supremacist views don't just vanish into thin air. They're still there, and in the event of a Trump loss probably have a conspiracy theory ready to go inciting violence in the name of the deep state or rigged satanic gay voting booths or something. There's plenty of room for it to continue to get worse even if Trump is defeated.