Add me to the list of people who think D1 Vanilla was the best. Easily spent over hundreds of hours raiding, doing daily missions, grinding resources, and crucible. EverythIng went to shit when they decided to appeal to everyone with TKK.
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Explaining Why The Destiny 2 Hate Has Come To This Point
- Thread starter kayos90
- Start date
Try as I might, I can't actually think of anything Bungie can do to actually "fix" Destiny 2 for me without, like, massively restructuring the entirety of the game -- which they probably can't and won't do.
I think a lot of people say, like, "Hey, it's a good start we just need more!" -- I kind of felt that way near the beginning, but now I actually think the core of Destiny 2 is actually pretty rotten. Like, I think their exotics suck. And I don't just mean they're underpowered, but like, they suck. They are missing one or two perks to actually be cool, and adding in those perks, whatever they are, would require a complete re-balancing.
Lost Sectors also kinda suck. They're too small to be meaningful, and if they were larger (and they aren't getting larger anytime soon) there's nothing to really "put" there at the end for vanilla players. Like, overall, my vanilla experience is over, and for the most part, it kinda sucked.
Character customization basically doesn't exist, and to get that you need to rewind things to the very basics / fundamentals of the characters themselves. That's a lot of work, and I don't see it being so easily done in a small timeframe.
The Raid is actually pretty cool, but unlike previous Destiny raids it's only cool once. There's no actual gunskill required. It's just a series of puzzles that once you've worked out make it kind of a slog on consecutive runs. Since the loot isn't there it is kind of a non-issue, but even if was there, do people really want to re-run that thing the same way they wanted to challenge themselves with Oryx or Atheon?
Trials is whatever. I've been flawless numerous times, and for whatever reason it is far from the excitement of the original Destiny. Not having Mercy makes it too dangerous to run anyway thanks to D/Cs and other bullshit.
I just think Destiny 2's "core" is a lot worse than people are thinking, and when the eventually butter it up with reasons to actually do things like Lost Sectors / Strikes / PvP, people will start to discover that they don't actually *like* doing those things over and over. And I say that as someone who was perfectly content grinding in Destiny 1. But we will see: I hope they manage something that people find attractive.
I think a lot of people say, like, "Hey, it's a good start we just need more!" -- I kind of felt that way near the beginning, but now I actually think the core of Destiny 2 is actually pretty rotten. Like, I think their exotics suck. And I don't just mean they're underpowered, but like, they suck. They are missing one or two perks to actually be cool, and adding in those perks, whatever they are, would require a complete re-balancing.
Lost Sectors also kinda suck. They're too small to be meaningful, and if they were larger (and they aren't getting larger anytime soon) there's nothing to really "put" there at the end for vanilla players. Like, overall, my vanilla experience is over, and for the most part, it kinda sucked.
Character customization basically doesn't exist, and to get that you need to rewind things to the very basics / fundamentals of the characters themselves. That's a lot of work, and I don't see it being so easily done in a small timeframe.
The Raid is actually pretty cool, but unlike previous Destiny raids it's only cool once. There's no actual gunskill required. It's just a series of puzzles that once you've worked out make it kind of a slog on consecutive runs. Since the loot isn't there it is kind of a non-issue, but even if was there, do people really want to re-run that thing the same way they wanted to challenge themselves with Oryx or Atheon?
Trials is whatever. I've been flawless numerous times, and for whatever reason it is far from the excitement of the original Destiny. Not having Mercy makes it too dangerous to run anyway thanks to D/Cs and other bullshit.
I just think Destiny 2's "core" is a lot worse than people are thinking, and when the eventually butter it up with reasons to actually do things like Lost Sectors / Strikes / PvP, people will start to discover that they don't actually *like* doing those things over and over. And I say that as someone who was perfectly content grinding in Destiny 1. But we will see: I hope they manage something that people find attractive.
The thing is they (the players) don't really need to have the ability to "actually understand, comprehend, and digest the designs that are laid out in front of you". The game has to be created for the player not for the developer. The developer might have a reason why you can only have PvP matches 4v4 or that tokens only give you a chance to spin the loot wheel at every planet. But if more than half of your initial player base stops playing your game and the other half is telling you that those things need to change or improve then the developer needs to find out if those design choices affected the decision of the first half of players to leave and stop the other half from doing the same.
The base of your essay can be resumed in:
- Bungie listened to the casual opinion and because casuals do not have much "game literacy" their feedback was wrong and the changes they did harmed more than it did good
- Bungie doesn't know their addressable market and tried to pitch Destiny to the casual market.
Those damned casuals!. The thing is every game needs to attract casuals, first timers, kinderguardians, you name it. They need the money of new players and maybe those new players like the game, become invested and go from casual to regular/hybrid and eventually fan/hardcore. All feedback must be important to the developer and they need to put special attention to the casual feedback if there is any because they, most of the time, do not leave any.
"You can't look at Destiny 2's addressable market without looking at Destiny 1. Destiny 1 at the end of its lifespan was left to the hardcore." But it is a different market because Bungie forced a fresh start. They sacrificed their already established market to expand their addressable market, that's the whole reason of starting from scratch in Destiny 2. Destiny 1 players would have had a lot of advantage over starting players and they did not wanted it. There are tons of ways to have new players catch up with seasoned ones but Bungie wanted to differentiate Destiny 2 from 1.
Overall what I'm trying to say is, in my opinion Bungie was not wrong in:
- Listening to all feedback, including casual.
- Trying to expand their player base.
Which are the points in your essay. They were wrong however in several design choices they made trying to accomplish those objetives.
I liked when getting max level was rare. 305s are a dime a dozen compared to 30s in Y1.
Yeah man the greatest thing ever was having a separate website open on my PC to track public events, while spending hours grabbing spinmetal just to progress. 10/10 game experience.
Add me as well. I loved everything about it with the exception of things like purples decrypting into blues.
2,000 hours? Wow. There are plenty of other games worth that time instead of just playing the same thing over and over.
Bungie could learn a thing or two from Team Ninja's Nioh.
Nioh has everything:
Incentive to master combat
Meaningful loot progression and customization
Wealth of Content update
Fun co-op
Constant improvement from player feedback
It's mind boggling that this is the first time both studios attempted a GaaS game, but the smaller Japanese studio with lesser resource at their disposal comes out with a better product.
Nioh has everything:
Incentive to master combat
Meaningful loot progression and customization
Wealth of Content update
Fun co-op
Constant improvement from player feedback
It's mind boggling that this is the first time both studios attempted a GaaS game, but the smaller Japanese studio with lesser resource at their disposal comes out with a better product.
Yeah, I'll agree here. A lot of the problems are very deeply rooted.
I don't know how they'd fix the weapon load out system back to Destiny 1. I think that may just be a lost cause and the mark of a not as good sequel. I can live with that if they can fix the other things, and then in Destiny 3 actually make it good again.
But man things as fundamental as movement in Destiny 2 feel bad. My brother who has played 2985 hours in Destiny 1 has stopped playing Destiny 2 almost completely not having 97 hours. Not even 100 hours. He cites movement as a primary reason. I don't know how any one with any time in that game can not notice it. I have over 300 hours in Destiny 1, far less than him, as I only actually owned a PS4 this year, and I sure as heck notice it.
Destiny 2 just doesn't feel as good to play as Destiny 1. I don't know what it is, but it's like going from Halo CE and 2 to Halo 3. Destiny 1 was snappy. Movement always felt good. Hand cannons were crisp and satisfying. I'm not even particularly the best at FPS games on console. I can't snipe to save my life. But I can notice this. In Destiny 2 I always feel sluggish, no matter my agility or sensitivity. Why is that? Why is everything so slow and sluggish and just plain dull to play.
It was even worse in the Beta. Idk what they changed to make it feel better but they need to change that more and make it feel like Destiny 1 again. I don't understand how they could mess that up after nailing Destiny 1's gunplay. I mean seriously that gunplay is what carried them through some of the dullest content droughts in an online game ever. Now you have people giving up playing the sequel due to the game just not feeling good to play. All my casual friends have stopped because it's "boring." What even, Bungie? Why? How did that happen?
I keep reposting this because it needs to be. Added a few new things.
Exotics don't feel exotic. Raid gear doesn't have perks that help you in the raid or other activities. Going flawless in Trials doesn't give you Adept weapons with special perks. There are no armor ornaments for beating raid challenges or going flawless in Trials. There is no strike specific loot like there was in Destiny 1, at all. All weapons have fixed rolls, so once you get, say, Better Devils, there's no reason to ever keep another one because it will always be EXACTLY the same. Armor doesn't give you any additional perks at all. Mods in general make very little difference and aren't interesting. You can't mix and match skills from different subclass skill trees, thus reducing any sense of variety in how you play. Stuff like ghost shells, ships and sparrows can only be obtained through Eververse. That means no special cosmetics for the raid or Trials either. Lost Sectors, Public Events and Strikes aren't worth playing at max level at all. Overall, too many re-skins, which compounds the lack of perks on armor and different rolls on weapons. Prestige version of the raid only having armor that is merely a different color, and absolutely no new weapons. Prestige nightfall not being worth the effort because the rewards are hardly better than the normal version. Grimoire being eliminated entirely instead of being fully implemented in-game, which everyone wanted. Instead, we get half assed "lore" tabs for raid gear and exotics, but nothing else. No custom games and getting rid of nearly every game type from Destiny 1, yet only adding two new ones. A bare bones PvP experience with no ranks, divisions or leader boards whatsoever. Guided Games being utterly useless when an in-game LFG board would be far better. Not being able to directly purchase desired gear from vendors, thus making grinding for tokens a chore and making legendary shards useless. "Smart Loot" system not working as intended and simply getting a ridiculous amount of duplicates where you begin to think the game is broken. Overall, the game being far too shallow, lacking any long term incentives and too focused for casual players who lack the time, desire or skill to be more dedicated.
Just let that sink in...
Exotics don't feel exotic. Raid gear doesn't have perks that help you in the raid or other activities. Going flawless in Trials doesn't give you Adept weapons with special perks. There are no armor ornaments for beating raid challenges or going flawless in Trials. There is no strike specific loot like there was in Destiny 1, at all. All weapons have fixed rolls, so once you get, say, Better Devils, there's no reason to ever keep another one because it will always be EXACTLY the same. Armor doesn't give you any additional perks at all. Mods in general make very little difference and aren't interesting. You can't mix and match skills from different subclass skill trees, thus reducing any sense of variety in how you play. Stuff like ghost shells, ships and sparrows can only be obtained through Eververse. That means no special cosmetics for the raid or Trials either. Lost Sectors, Public Events and Strikes aren't worth playing at max level at all. Overall, too many re-skins, which compounds the lack of perks on armor and different rolls on weapons. Prestige version of the raid only having armor that is merely a different color, and absolutely no new weapons. Prestige nightfall not being worth the effort because the rewards are hardly better than the normal version. Grimoire being eliminated entirely instead of being fully implemented in-game, which everyone wanted. Instead, we get half assed "lore" tabs for raid gear and exotics, but nothing else. No custom games and getting rid of nearly every game type from Destiny 1, yet only adding two new ones. A bare bones PvP experience with no ranks, divisions or leader boards whatsoever. Guided Games being utterly useless when an in-game LFG board would be far better. Not being able to directly purchase desired gear from vendors, thus making grinding for tokens a chore and making legendary shards useless. "Smart Loot" system not working as intended and simply getting a ridiculous amount of duplicates where you begin to think the game is broken. Overall, the game being far too shallow, lacking any long term incentives and too focused for casual players who lack the time, desire or skill to be more dedicated.
Just let that sink in...
A more appropriate thread title might be 'why i think the destiny 2 hate has come to this point' because it's kind of just an opinion piece, and not a very salient one. I feel like if someone didn't really know the history behind how this ultimately minor experience scaling snafu set off such a media powder keg, this is the thread title they would click on but it isn't the kind of OP that would help them.
Speaking of vanilla, I don't think its too much to ask for Bungie to add vanilla servers.
Clearly, Destiny 1 Vanilla is a far better experience than Destiny 2 Vanilla
Clearly, Destiny 1 Vanilla is a far better experience than Destiny 2 Vanilla
All this. ALL OF THIS.
Sums up why I'm done after maybe 40 hours. Got my warlock to 304 and have zero inclination to push for higher or start a new guy.
All of that post is absolutely on point too.
That feeling when I got the Vex from VoG. I'd been reading about this gun, lusting after this gun and finally after lots of raids, it dropped and I was so happy. And this was post nerf too, but it still felt like a beast to me, in pvp and pve.
It meant something. It showed I had completed the highest tier content, I had forged my own legend. There I was swaggering round the tower in my chatterwhite shader, my raid gear, my Vex on my back looking like a badass and I would get messages and invites from people asking me to run the thorn bounty with them, or help them through the raid, or just come and run a strike.
I remember seeing these godlike level 30 dudes when I was scrubbing around at level 16 and thinking "I want to be that". And I got there, with my fireteam and with a great many random people from GAF. It was a great sensation, that feeling of achievement. I never got a gjallahorn, but hot dam I had my Vex and that awesome metallic 'fwompfwompfwomp' noise it made, disintegrating everything in a storm of fire...that was my soundtrack, my cavalry charge.
I can't recall a single exotic (or legendary either, no fatebringer here) in D2 that engenders any feelings of avarice or excitement and at no stage have I looked at higher level players and experienced the desire to emulate.
There were dozens of times when you could literally buy not just good rolls but god rolls from the vendor. On top of that many many other times there were very good rolls you could just buy. If you didn't ever get a good Eyasluna or Imago Loop or whatever, Palindrome repeatedly got decent rolls from the vendor. This allowed everyone chances at decent guns. You could just potentially get an amazing one beforehand or after if you missed a good one.
And again, as I've mentioned in other posts here, there are ways of fixing random rolls without making rolls fixed and making every single drop you get, not maybe disappointing or potentially exciting, but always much worse. Boring. Pointless. After you get the guns you want, you delete everything. It makes doing anything at that point pointless. That doesn't have to be the case either. Bungie can fix the issue without swinging the pendulum violently to the other extreme.
The problem with destiny and destiny 2 is that different people want it to be different things. Some want it to be an incredibly deep RPG with stats to improve and a long grind to get there. Some want it to be a story based action fps, with really deep lore. Some want it to be the ultimate in competitive PvP.
It is not possible to be all of these things to everyone without alienating huge portions of the audience. It tries to do all of these whilst being accessible
It is not possible to be all of these things to everyone without alienating huge portions of the audience. It tries to do all of these whilst being accessible
Alright yeah this second video has pushed me over the edge. I legitimately can't defend the new loadout system. Idk if that sounds fake given the criticisms of Destiny 2 I've made, but I've legitimately tried to see the good in it.
And I can't any more. I think I was just trying to ignore it because dang it I want to have fun with Destiny 2. But it just fundamentally isn't as good. This is a good video.
Bungie needs to stop making the PvE absolutely boring in order to make PvP better. Because in the end both suffer. My brother with nearly 3000 hours in the game literally specifically plays for PvP. That's practically all he plays. And hates D2, despite it's improvements specifically being for PvP. But no. The PvP is now boring and soulless. They force 4v4 into casual play making it weirdly sweaty and yet not at the same time. Bungie doesn't know what they want the game to be. But purely focusing everything on PvP at the expense of the entire rest of the game is so boneheaded.
No matter how they balance the PVP it will always have the best gun that everybody uses (right now MIDA).
The difference is that before the "balance" PVP has tons of fun... now even Iron Banana is boring.
Why Destiny can't be only Destiny? Why Bungie needed to change Destiny in something else with Destiny 2?
That is the biggest issue right now with Destiny 2... It was not made for Destiny fabs that enjoyed the first game.
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The map UI in Destiny 2 is better but the core game is worst.
I will take the core game first in any occasion... the new UI could be implemented in D1 without lost the better core game.
And yes... the experience in D1 was better than the experience in D2.
But probably not fun to Destiny fans like Destiny.
My 1300ish hours in Destiny was basically the best gaming experience I had in my life.
I know there are others game but Destny was Destiny
until Destiny 2.
I'm a firm believer, even as a long time, high difficult raider (WoW, SWTOR heroic/mythic etc. that the raid should be stripped from the game, in favor of more readily repeatable and scalable content. Bosses and things should be built into the story itself, with more attention paid to additional modes like Nightfalls and modified missions etc. As you said, even with a hard mode, the raid is static and quickly becomes boring, it's not scalable like they need it to be. They also need to divest PVP balancing from PVE. PVE needs to have it's own loot sets that are actually interesting and add variance to abilities and play. D2 seriously walked back what were already fairly tame exotics. Additionally neutering the skill trees, which made it even worse.
Effectively what I'm saying is they really need to move in the direction of Diablo, Path of Exile to create a game that won't stagnate. If the focus is loot, you have to build a game around loot that can scale and find purpose. Destiny 2 really doesn't have that gameplay loop working correctly.
It's also generally better for all players as it gives them more agency with their time and options. They can choose how far they want to go and how much time they want to commit. Vs having the raid be the ultimate "end game". It's been the same story with every looter shooter. People want the "Endless" portion. That's what Diablo and POE do best. And loot based games are inherently build based games to some degree. D2 stripped any sort of interesting build making out in favor of PVP balancing. So it just falls flat.
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I think the raid is fine. It contextualizes the rest of the game. My favorite experiences from Destiny are all from raids.
What I do think is they need far, far more content beyond that. Raid lairs is...kind of the right idea. But there just needs to be way more. We need way more strikes. Way more things to do with a few other friends. Right now the raid is like the only major thing. We need smaller 4 person raids peppered throughout. We need two raids a year. Even at year 3 Destiny 1 only finally felt like it had a nice healthy amount of content. That's the game I played, and I easily could have gone for more. There was plenty outside of raids to do, but when you were ready for the raids, hoo boy. They were awesome.
Destiny raids are like nothing else in the gaming world. It would be a shame to lose them. I think the issue is the sheer lack of content if you don't play them or until you can get a group to play them.
No they are very much like other things in the gaming world, they are a raid, but in an FPS.
You'll also never be able to escape the fact that the raid is the cut off point. They will not or cannot create incentivized content beyond the raid, as to diminish the impact of the raid. The raid is as much a limiting factor as balancing PVE for PVP. Believe me, I understand how much people love raids. But the strikes in some ways are already like raids with fewer members. I think they need to focus on that kind of content far more. It fits much more with the gaming style of today's player as well.
I get it, having all your buddies playing with you in a co-op capacity is great, but not so great it's worth the detriment it causes to the entire core gameplay loop. That's just my opinion, but I think it's pretty obvious that it has merit.
Raids are restrictive on too many levels.
Raids are so much more than large strikes, and strikes are no substitute for raids. They are not even remotely the same experience...
And you have yet to explain how they are limiting. Of course there is nothing beyond them. They are at the top. The pinnacle of the experience. But they aren't the end. King's Fall handled this wonderfully. After the raid an entire game of quests opens up for you. Do you even play Destiny?
And you have yet to explain how they are limiting. Of course there is nothing beyond them. They are at the top. The pinnacle of the experience. But they aren't the end. King's Fall handled this wonderfully. After the raid an entire game of quests opens up for you. Do you even play Destiny?
Take note EA, you fuck your game up AFTER you sold shittons of copies and people can't ask for refunds, not before
I have to sit down and recap a few things to understand everyone else opinion on the matter.
First of all, in my guild/clan nobody played or even known D1, as its a pc-only clan.
Second, basically D2 is in Vanilla State right now, and i remember back in the days the sheer amount of rage and hate toward bungie, usually comparing the state of D1 vs The Division.
Then something changed, for the better, after a few patches and expansions, and people turned their hate to The Division comparing it to Destiny 1.
There were countless of threads in the likes of "I go back to Destiny 1, they know how to keep player rolling" or "massive you're a disgrace, look Destiny how far has come, learn to it".
So basically the argument was the same, but it changed subjects comfortably based on the issue arised.
Now, back to 24 october 2017, the day D2 launched on PC; newcomers PC players that never had a chance to play D1 and never know anything about it, found a game with some flaws, but extremely enjoyable with a group of friends.
The game has issues, as i said, but for most of the newcomers, these issues could be considered "normal" for a just launched game, hoping that a patch or subsequent expansions would balance and fix things here and there.
We came to know the Sword meta and the Crucible strange way to handle them, the matchmaking and so on.
But, alot of things are in play here, enough to keep people playing. Prestige version of Nightfalls can keep busy a squad of people for a week. Same goes for the Leviathan.
Weekly milestones resets and clan rewards help drastically into reaching level cap, and even if you do so fastly, it's not guaranteed that you have the current meta of weapons/setup for pvp. You just keep playing and improving, testing things, build different sets.
Trials of the Nine is flawed in many ways, you have to keep playing until you fight a team that's on par with yours: but by playing it, you improve. You get better in pvp specially if you never had a chance of some sort of competitive play in FPSes, just PVE. You improve. It's an hard punishment, but it works. The fact it's open three days a week also takes the spot eventually in a clan activity ladder, at least it keeps busy the pvp fireteam a while.
Public events are fun, i can't get enough of them. Triggering Eroic versions, specially on a planet that gets the spot of the week for milestones, adds also random Mini Bosses spawn, not to mention that the PE changes and rotates. So more enemies to kill, more loot.
Loot is flawed, XP is flawed, there's no doubt about it. But The Division was in this sorry state for much longer than a game that has come out the 24th of October for us, and September for the others. There's still time ahead to further develop it.
Bungie communication sucks, it's true. I want them to be more present, more communicative. They can ease the pain easily, amend their sins. They will.
What worries me much is that there's no line between costructive criticism and distructive.
I wonder the ones who rage that much what kind of like they do: in my daily routine i can give to D2 and my Clan 3 to 4 hours. Everyone has similar routine to mine, so each time its fun doing basically everything.
What i'm trying to achieve in this post is: be patient and don't go supporting toxicity and rageing people. Be helpful to each other, to the devs, posts detailing what could be changed with offending their mothers or menacing to not play again their game are useless and old. Posts done with good intentions and good manners not.
Because i keep doing a comparison between this and The Division, and all the hate and toxicity posts some people did, in that case, helped near to zero into making it a better experience.
Going around telling everyone on socials "i will never play again your game if you don't do X and Y NOW" is stupid, childish and without logic nor reasoning. Not to mention that Bungie doesn't really care about people that posts stuff like that. Tells much about their maturity.
I love D2 because in my current position, nobody even played the first one, they just randomly got informations about it. So for them it's a new experience.
And since i played D1 alot back in the days, i DO MISS alot of it's content. But the contet i missed, came out MUCH LATER, it wasn't a day-after fix. It wasn't added in the first week or month. They worked on it.
So leaving all the above aside, what drives me mad is their lying about the XP and a few other things; but lies or no lies, they are working to fix it, anyway.
Peace out.
For me, D2 is a great, enormous clan experience that dispense alot of fun and challenging things to do, even if you did them 100 times.
There's always a new guardian to help, that just joined; there's always your (and theirs) second, third or fourth character to grow.
That's all, sorry for the WOT. Just my 2 cents.
First of all, in my guild/clan nobody played or even known D1, as its a pc-only clan.
Second, basically D2 is in Vanilla State right now, and i remember back in the days the sheer amount of rage and hate toward bungie, usually comparing the state of D1 vs The Division.
Then something changed, for the better, after a few patches and expansions, and people turned their hate to The Division comparing it to Destiny 1.
There were countless of threads in the likes of "I go back to Destiny 1, they know how to keep player rolling" or "massive you're a disgrace, look Destiny how far has come, learn to it".
So basically the argument was the same, but it changed subjects comfortably based on the issue arised.
Now, back to 24 october 2017, the day D2 launched on PC; newcomers PC players that never had a chance to play D1 and never know anything about it, found a game with some flaws, but extremely enjoyable with a group of friends.
The game has issues, as i said, but for most of the newcomers, these issues could be considered "normal" for a just launched game, hoping that a patch or subsequent expansions would balance and fix things here and there.
We came to know the Sword meta and the Crucible strange way to handle them, the matchmaking and so on.
But, alot of things are in play here, enough to keep people playing. Prestige version of Nightfalls can keep busy a squad of people for a week. Same goes for the Leviathan.
Weekly milestones resets and clan rewards help drastically into reaching level cap, and even if you do so fastly, it's not guaranteed that you have the current meta of weapons/setup for pvp. You just keep playing and improving, testing things, build different sets.
Trials of the Nine is flawed in many ways, you have to keep playing until you fight a team that's on par with yours: but by playing it, you improve. You get better in pvp specially if you never had a chance of some sort of competitive play in FPSes, just PVE. You improve. It's an hard punishment, but it works. The fact it's open three days a week also takes the spot eventually in a clan activity ladder, at least it keeps busy the pvp fireteam a while.
Public events are fun, i can't get enough of them. Triggering Eroic versions, specially on a planet that gets the spot of the week for milestones, adds also random Mini Bosses spawn, not to mention that the PE changes and rotates. So more enemies to kill, more loot.
Loot is flawed, XP is flawed, there's no doubt about it. But The Division was in this sorry state for much longer than a game that has come out the 24th of October for us, and September for the others. There's still time ahead to further develop it.
Bungie communication sucks, it's true. I want them to be more present, more communicative. They can ease the pain easily, amend their sins. They will.
What worries me much is that there's no line between costructive criticism and distructive.
I wonder the ones who rage that much what kind of like they do: in my daily routine i can give to D2 and my Clan 3 to 4 hours. Everyone has similar routine to mine, so each time its fun doing basically everything.
What i'm trying to achieve in this post is: be patient and don't go supporting toxicity and rageing people. Be helpful to each other, to the devs, posts detailing what could be changed with offending their mothers or menacing to not play again their game are useless and old. Posts done with good intentions and good manners not.
Because i keep doing a comparison between this and The Division, and all the hate and toxicity posts some people did, in that case, helped near to zero into making it a better experience.
Going around telling everyone on socials "i will never play again your game if you don't do X and Y NOW" is stupid, childish and without logic nor reasoning. Not to mention that Bungie doesn't really care about people that posts stuff like that. Tells much about their maturity.
I love D2 because in my current position, nobody even played the first one, they just randomly got informations about it. So for them it's a new experience.
And since i played D1 alot back in the days, i DO MISS alot of it's content. But the contet i missed, came out MUCH LATER, it wasn't a day-after fix. It wasn't added in the first week or month. They worked on it.
So leaving all the above aside, what drives me mad is their lying about the XP and a few other things; but lies or no lies, they are working to fix it, anyway.
Peace out.
For me, D2 is a great, enormous clan experience that dispense alot of fun and challenging things to do, even if you did them 100 times.
There's always a new guardian to help, that just joined; there's always your (and theirs) second, third or fourth character to grow.
That's all, sorry for the WOT. Just my 2 cents.
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More content without reward that you want to be reward will be the same you have right now.
Bungie needs...
- Rework classes to give differents perk choices like in D1... that differentiate player build.
- Back the weapon perk choice like in D1 (you have 9 perks and need to choose 3)
- Add overpowered perks to Exotics
- Add unique perks choice for different legendaries
- Make drop table specific for each activity
- Give unique perks to gears with activity specific perks (specific Raid perks for eg.)
- Make vendor sells weapons/gears
That changes makes the reward good again so gamers will replay activity to get them.
But most important the reward needs to be really good, overpowered (even with restrictions), unbalanced...
Players will feel great again.
Bungie needs...
- Rework classes to give differents perk choices like in D1... that differentiate player build.
- Back the weapon perk choice like in D1 (you have 9 perks and need to choose 3)
- Add overpowered perks to Exotics
- Add unique perks choice for different legendaries
- Make drop table specific for each activity
- Give unique perks to gears with activity specific perks (specific Raid perks for eg.)
- Make vendor sells weapons/gears
That changes makes the reward good again so gamers will replay activity to get them.
But most important the reward needs to be really good, overpowered (even with restrictions), unbalanced...
Players will feel great again.
D2 has the same end of gaming issues as The Division.
Something D1 never had... the gameplay loop in D1 reward you making it fun to play, play and play to get rewarded... you feel the accomplishment of reach your objective and better you shared your feelings with the fireteam members.
That makes all the difference in a loot game... something that The Division and Destiny 2 misses by a long shot.
I beat the campaign, played for a few more hours afterwards and then quit once I realised there's nothing to do except run the same few strikes over and over and over again as a casual player.
The pvp is also a massive turd which didn't help.
That's why I hate Destiny 2.
The pvp is also a massive turd which didn't help.
That's why I hate Destiny 2.
I was more on the casual end of the spectrum for Destiny but completed all the raids at some point. What I loved about Destiny was the ability to kill a few a hours doing random things. To give Destiny 2 its due I really enjoyed the single player experience and completed that really quick. Afterwards I just felt the whole game is flat, uninspired and no real draw to play and Im on the more casual end of things. The lack of variety is awful and I seem to always get the same strike when doing it. It just feels bland and boring. I havent touched it now in a number of weeks but will see what this expansion is like. I loved Destiny so much I bought the gold edition or whatever it was called so will give it a wee look.
I know, but there's still time. All i'm saying is that it's good to point out what it works and what not, but people are crossing the line here, too much. They are talking like the game has come out since a year already, which state is beyond fixing. I do trust Bungie, i do trust them, i think they understand that D2 should be equally similar to D1 content-wise, including all the better changes implemented. But, there's still time.
A game 2 months old cannot be perfect, but can be perfectioned.
Yes, I've played Both D1, and D2. There's little to no reason to continue after you've completed the raid (Hard included). That's it, that's the tail end, there's nothing beyond it, and the gear in order to feel special has to be to some degree the pinacle of gear too. So that means that's it for gear/build progression which the game is built around. It's a rather shallow earth once you start digging. My point is that this type of game lends itself much much better to the tried and true formulas of other Loot based ARPG's. Not sure why they refuse to do it. It would afford both them and the players much more flexibility in terms of creating and playing content.
The reason MMO's can get away with having Raids be the pinnacle of their content, is A. The time before the raid, the questing, story, grinding is much greater on average than it is in Destiny. B. That the raid content is typically quite a bit longer, more involved (I'm referring to games like WoW, SWTOR(Before it went to shit), Everquest and other trinity based MMO's). There's also typically much more content to do elsewhere for different kinds of player bases, and even those games struggle to release content on a meaningful time scale.
Destiny refuses to wear either the mantle of an MMO or the mantly of a loot based ARPG (Which it is much closer to). So they are stuck in a middling limbo and doomed to repeat itself until they break it out of its current design cycle.
In what three years? They clearly were working on D2 before they really had gotten under way with meaningful changes from their live team. Effectively, when Destiny 1 was just starting to capitalize on it's promise, they were likely nearing completing of D2. Which means we have the slow ride through D2, like we did in D1 again, before resetting again with D3.
They really shouldn't have made a new game. I understand their need for a reset, but they didn't need to scrap all they had built up to this point to accomplish it.
I've put in more hours in destiny 2 than destiny 1 with all expansion, so I guess I'm the kind of gamer this was for, I like that I've been able to get to almost max level by playing a few hrs a week and lately since I finished all quests and adventures, check in do milestones, take a break and do something else with my time waiting for the expansion,
im so happy Destiny 2 hate is out there. Bungie took a great product and turned it in to shit.
They totally didnt give a fuck about the fans of the game, the gamers that played D1 until the end.
Bring back 6 vs 6, bring back RNG rolls, bring back a min max system, bring back the space magic, bring back weapons and gear that make you feel powerful.
Be faster with DLC, 3 months between DLC is to far, give us more to do and farm.
this is all they have to do and the hardcore fans will be happy again like myself.
They totally didnt give a fuck about the fans of the game, the gamers that played D1 until the end.
Bring back 6 vs 6, bring back RNG rolls, bring back a min max system, bring back the space magic, bring back weapons and gear that make you feel powerful.
Be faster with DLC, 3 months between DLC is to far, give us more to do and farm.
this is all they have to do and the hardcore fans will be happy again like myself.
If you don't mind me asking, what did you get out of the experience that made your limited style of play worth it for you versus the numerous other titles out there? What's the reward for you to do those Milestones, the drive?
For me at least
The gameplay loop feels extremely satisfying. It's amazing to shoot at things and kill them in this game.
I have no gameplay reason to do Lost Sectors for example, but I have lots of fun going to a random planet and doing them.
I feel like an idiot saying this, I feel I'm not valuing my time... But D2 feels good.
Do I want improvements? Yes
Is the game shit? No
That second video is so spot on, I didn't even mind the 2 primary system much either, I just thought it was pretty boring, but D2 had bigger problem. That video completely changed my mind, it might actually be were all my issues come from. The boring loot, slow boring strikes, mediocre PvP, unfun Raid and probably some stuff I'm forgetting can all be linked to it.
There are a lot of things I enjoy about Destiny 2 and a lot of things I just can't wrap my head around, but that's the case for a lot of games I suppose. It's really disappointing that many bug fixes and QoL features aren't introduced progressively but are held back until the expansions and that Bungie haven't really communicated that they recognize some things need fixing (looking at all the hunters in particular). It reminds me a bit of the first couple of months of The Division. It was rocky at the start, but Massive Entertainment did a good job in talking to its playerbase throughout the game's lifespan, addressing community concerns, listening to feedback, and gave players a clear roadmap of what's to come -- though there were unmistakably ups and downs along the way. Nowadays, The Division is in a pretty good spot, I feel, and seems to be getting even better with 1.8 around the corner.
I sincerely hope CoO has a compelling chunk of replayable content and comes with some much-needed improvements to the base experience. However, most of all, I'd like Bungie to give players an idea of where the game is heading and if there has been any reflection on the state of bug fixes, QoL changes, PVP balance, matchmaking, and the general social experience, so that people like myself can figure out if they're in for the ride or should get off at the next stop.
I sincerely hope CoO has a compelling chunk of replayable content and comes with some much-needed improvements to the base experience. However, most of all, I'd like Bungie to give players an idea of where the game is heading and if there has been any reflection on the state of bug fixes, QoL changes, PVP balance, matchmaking, and the general social experience, so that people like myself can figure out if they're in for the ride or should get off at the next stop.
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I don't think the game is shit either. I think I get where you are coming from. I think when it comes down to it, I'm a variety gamer maybe because I do value my time more? Its rare to find a game I've played more than a few hundred hours on, at most. Only WoW and maybe ARMA II go beyond 200-300.
I find it hard to give the game my time after completing the raid and doing most the hard mode raid (struggle to even get on for that). I have the expansion pass from the limited edition so I guess I won't have to wait much longer for some new content. But damn if D2 hasn't made it hard to be invested. I guess it really comes down to the simplifying of classes, reduction of interesting gear/exotics and incentive for other "end game" content like nightfall. In D1 I would do the Nightfall all the time. I haven't bothered doing nightfalls in weeks especially not prestige, it might be fun on occasion, but I just don't have any reason to do so. At least if they had kept the XP boost buff...
Part of the problem is that Bungie are either stuck having to make an inordinate amount of content to keep the community happy OR they have to introduce more grind to get any rewards. The former is probably very difficult for them given Activision demands and the latter, divisive.
I think there is a bigger question of what people expect from a £55 title. I'd wager most of the community have over 100 hours logged in D2 already with many going way over that. Is that a good return even though some after say 50/60 hours started to have issues with the game?
I think there is a bigger question of what people expect from a £55 title. I'd wager most of the community have over 100 hours logged in D2 already with many going way over that. Is that a good return even though some after say 50/60 hours started to have issues with the game?