Explaining Why The Destiny 2 Hate Has Come To This Point

[Aztechnology]

I know for a fact for raids three and four this is objectively untrue.



This is literally what I said.



The issue here is they are so hesitant to fully commit to what they set out to do with Destiny 1. Destiny 2 is the opposite of what they should have done. The Raid is not the problem here.

Click to shrink...

I'm not saying it's the end all be all problem in Destiny. I'm just making the case that it could improve the game significantly if they used the resources dedicated there, which are substantial, to focus on smaller, repeatable and scalable content. Also more steady content releases etc.

In my opinion it's one, of the factors holding Destiny back. Not the factor.

 

[captscience]

"No rewards at end of Crucible/Nightfall"

Huh?

Click to shrink...

It's a minor point but it's probably referring to the lack of a post match rewards screen. It's a small change, but to me, it had a decent impact on how much I enjoyed grinding those activities, especially with friends. Seeing what others were rewarded, and potentially being jealous of it, was a source of fun and motivation to play. A small symptom of the overall problem that D2 has.

 

[NullPointer]

This is a lot, not all of them, of the things that were left behind.

Click to shrink...

Had no idea about the limited Xur inventory.

Are Bright Engrams the only way to get things like ships and cosmetics in D2?

 

[Shooter]

Had no idea about the limited Xur inventory.

Are Bright Engrams the only way to get things like ships and cosmetics in D2?

Click to shrink...

All cosmetics are in bright engrams. Shells, ships, sparrows, weapon ornaments, etc. Not to mention the best shaders (which are consumable) are locked in bright engrams.

 

[NullPointer]

All cosmetics are in bright engrams. Shells, ships, sparrows, weapon ornaments, etc. Not to mention the best shaders (which are consumable) are locked in bright engrams.

Click to shrink...

Well that's fucking craptacular.

More MTX guided design at work.

 

[treemonkeys]

This is a lot, not all of them, of the things that were left behind.

Click to shrink...

That's a great list to describe why myself (and so many others) are dissatisfied with this game. It is so incredibly assinine that they would spend years improving D1 and then throw all that out for a new and dumbed down design philosophy. All of this trade for fucking tokens and bright engrams.

 

[Popetita]

That list is great. I feel D1 and D2 together( if they had followed the 10 year plan) would be an ok game. Even if they mixed the best parts of both I feel the game would be lacking content and lacking scale compared to others games that are MMOs which is what I think Destiny should aim for.

I am not expecting a world as big or a scale like WoW, but to have a story the size of a sidequest storyline is not acceptable to me.

The gameplay is sublime, but there is not enough content for me to be there and because a lot of friends have also left I have not gone back. In retrospect, I guess even with it being bad the grind kept us together and playing. So saying the grind made D1 better than D2 feels wrong but there is some truth to it.

 

[Valhalla_Nights]

It's not the community's fault that Destiny 2 is missing a lot of the QoL features that were present in Destiny 1 or The Taken King. I highly doubt anybody in the community asked for consumable shaders (with no way to dismantle stacks rapidly, I might add. Just let me hold down the dismantle button)

Nobody probably asked for them to move quest objectives back into the inventory after they created a dedicated interface for it with The Taken King update. For every improvement Destiny 2 made, there's multiple steps back. Nobody asked for them to remove heroic story missions, heroic strikes. (which are now being reintroduced in a $15 paid expansion)

When you make a "sequel" to a GaaS game, it shouldn't be missing tons of things that the first game had. Having different content is fine but it shouldn't be missing mode/gameplay offerings that the first game had. (Not to mention there is a fair amount of asset reuse present in Destiny 2.)

I can't look at any feedback Bungie got from TTK and think it constituted them removing multiple things that were present in Destiny 1 that just aren't present in 2. Is it the community's fault Bungie made most if not all of the exotics uninteresting (and most are just bad) and basically just legendaries because they want to avoid creating Gjallarhorn again? But instead they came up with the same problem because none of the exotics that do things interestingly are "good" since something like the Tractor Cannon which is different from every other shotgun is just a bad shotgun.

And instead they also introduce "infinite RNG" at cap with the Legendary mods where most of the Legendary mods are completely useless but there's no way to get them other than complete RNG and hope you get ones that give you a stat that you want or reduce grenade cooldowns or the like. I also sure love farming glimmer to reroll Legendary mods.

Click to shrink...

Who cares about QOL features?

Usually the new entrants into a genre or market.

Not usually people who are fans of the genre.

I basically stopped paying attention and got defensive at "the loudest ones are usually the dumbest". I don't know whether you're talking about me or not since I didnt keep reading, but I do consider myself pretty "loud" when it comes to D2, but not dumb. I'll read it later if I have time.

Edit: Ok I see youre talking more about casuals being loud. That's still offensive but it isn't me. I'd say the problem overall is that they went too casual. They went way way overboard. It's ok to be casual yet at the same time have an end game. But there is no end game. There is no reason at all to do so much that is there and there is much that used to be there that was just ripped out of the game.

And now that these casuals have played the game that's it. And what are we left with? Nothing. There are no casuals because they already played it and there are no hardcore because they made the game for the casuals with nothing more. So everyone is just done with it. They basically gave a big "fuck you" to their more hardcore base imo and now they get to reap what they've sewn. Enjoy.

And I can get past all that pretty easily. I wasnt super excited or anything for Osiris, but I was going to at least play through it and hop on every once in awhile and probably buy all the new content too.

Except then I found out that they fucking programmed and implemented a lie into their game. That still blows my mind that they had the audacity to do that. So I will no longer give them my money. People can get mad all they want about people like me saying Bungie can go away. But for all I care, they can go away. Once you lie to me that's all there is. All that's left of Bungie to me is a lie. They should be ashamed.

So unless they're about to pull an Xbox 180 here with their blog post and future actions, I'm done ever giving them a single penny.

Click to shrink...

It's kind of childish to be that upset because someone "lied" to you lol.

 

[Valhalla_Nights]

i think a lot of people were willing to cut destiny 1 some slack because it clearly had a troubled development and was a first stab (albeit a missed one) at something greater

people are bound to have a lot less patience for them fucking up The Destiny Vision on the second go-around after destiny 1 was wildly successful in spite of its obvious flaws

Click to shrink...

 

[kayos90]

Some of points in the OP come across as condescending and uncharitable to "causal" gamers--and seriously, in what universe is someone who played Destiny 1 to level 29 and complained about it on the internet about it a casual? Do you really need to sink 500+ hours into a game like Destiny to be considered core now? Where does that leave someone who has never visited a video game forum and only plays Candy Crush on their phone?

The notion that these kinds of gamers should be blamed for the shortcomings of Destiny 2 and dismissed as not knowing what they want is also off-putting. Gamers, even when lumped into sweeping categories like casual and hardcore, are not a homogeneous entity. The people who complained about Destiny 1 are not necessarily the same people who are complaining about Destiny 2. And even if they were, Bungie is ultimately responsible for the choice they make to cater to community feedback or stick to their guns.

Those general nitpicks aside, it'd be interesting to see hard data on the cash flows generated by the two kinds of Destiny players described in the OP to determine who really is the "addressable market." The season pass content and microtransactions purchased by the player base that sticks around undoubtedly has better ROI for Bungie, but does revenue from DLC and microtransactions exceed that generated by the entirety of the player base ("hardcore" and "casual") that purchases the base game? I don't know, but I imagine the initial player base (casuals and all) are a pretty important source of revenue for Bungie that shouldn't be taken for granted.

Click to shrink...

So essentially UF_C explained it perfectly but I want to expand on it. (https://www.resetera.com/posts/1528783/)

I did preface that I wasn't trying to sound belittling. I used the term casual because I honestly couldn't think of a more apt word. I know the term already has some connotations so I explained on what the word meant to me. I'm fully aware that large groups are not a homogeneous entity. However, they do share characteristics and similarities which is why create group labels in the first place. This isn't exclusive to games. It's done in politics or scientific studies and whatnot. And you are right that Bungie is ultimately responsible as they're the ones designing the game. However, the fact of the matter is that the voice is given and it's a loud one isn't something that can be ignored. That was one of the points that I made. You are right in that I would love to see data. A lot of what I'm saying is hypothetical. Anything grounded in numbers is always better. I hope UF_C's post and mine was sufficient.

 

[trapperkreeper]

All cosmetics are in bright engrams. Shells, ships, sparrows, weapon ornaments, etc. Not to mention the best shaders (which are consumable) are locked in bright engrams.

Click to shrink...

I disagree about the best shaders being locked.. the best shaders have been from iron banner and faction rally imo.. and you can get shaders other ways, is not locked.